Hornberger, FFF on the "Fraudulent" JFKA Autopsy

[Benjamin Cole]

7/14/2023 from Jacob Hornberger on JFKA autopsy. Fairly compelling. 

https://www.fff.org/2023/07/14/the-achilles-heel-of-the-jfk-assassination/

Hornberger concludes, 

"As I stated above and as I have repeatedly emphasized over the years, there is no innocent explanation for a fraudulent autopsy. Once one concludes that the autopsy was fraudulent, one has automatically concluded that the assassination was orchestrated and carried out by the national-security establishment. There is no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn."

Let us hope Larry Schnapf can liberate the JFK Records from the snuff-grip of military-intel establishment, and their minions.  

[Gerry Down]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

7/14/2023 from Jacob Hornberger on JFKA autopsy. Fairly compelling. 

https://www.fff.org/2023/07/14/the-achilles-heel-of-the-jfk-assassination/

Hornberger concludes, 

"As I stated above and as I have repeatedly emphasized over the years, there is no innocent explanation for a fraudulent autopsy. Once one concludes that the autopsy was fraudulent, one has automatically concluded that the assassination was orchestrated and carried out by the national-security establishment. There is no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn."

Let us hope Larry Schnapf can liberate the JFK Records from the snuff-grip of military-intel establishment, and their minions.  

It's debatable what could be meant by "innocent". If RFK was interfering with the autopsy to conceal from the public, which probably would have been in keeping with the wishes of JFK himself, that he had Addisons disease, this could be interpreted by some to be "an innocent explanation for a fraudulent autopsy".

[Charles Blackmon]

6 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

It's debatable what could be meant by "innocent". If RFK was interfering with the autopsy to conceal from the public, which probably would have been in keeping with the wishes of JFK himself, that he had Addisons disease, this could be interpreted by some to be "an innocent explanation for a fraudulent autopsy".

Wow!

[David Josephs]

6 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

It's debatable what could be meant by "innocent". If RFK was interfering with the autopsy to conceal from the public, which probably would have been in keeping with the wishes of JFK himself, that he had Addisons disease, this could be interpreted by some to be "an innocent explanation for a fraudulent autopsy".

@Benjamin Cole

2 sets of x-rays
Multiple sets of conflicting photos
2 Brain exams for 2 different brains
Multiple bullets removed, 1 mentioned in FBI documents. 

Did Bobby make the ear bullet disappear with the intercostal bullet?

How "innocent" and blissfully naive you are...

 

 

[Gerry Down]

20 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Wow!

Well he kept it quiet while he was alive. I don't see why he'd want to broadcast it upon his death. 

[Gerry Down]

7 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

@Benjamin Cole

2 sets of x-rays
Multiple sets of conflicting photos
2 Brain exams for 2 different brains
Multiple bullets removed, 1 mentioned in FBI documents. 

Did Bobby make the ear bullet disappear with the intercostal bullet?

How "innocent" and blissfully naive you are...

 

 

RFKs intervention alone made the autopsy fraudulent even if other stuff happened too. 

[Charles Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Well he kept it quiet while he was alive. I don't see why he'd want to broadcast it upon his death. 

Wow again. Good talking points. 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

RFKs intervention alone made the autopsy fraudulent even if other stuff happened too. 

This was addressed in a number of interviews with Humes. He said they did not dissect the adrenal glands because it was an open secret that JFK had Addison's and the autopsy doctors didn't think it was necessary in a gunshot case. He said no one told him to back off. That he had made the decision. We have no reason to doubt this. 

The "blame Bobby" thing is old and tired, IMO. 

Bobby was behind the Castro hits. False. 

Bobby was responsible for the problems with the autopsy. False.

Bobby oversaw the Warren Commission and closely followed its investigation. False. 

Bobby personally disposed of JFK's brain. Maybe. But not without assistance. The paper trail suggests that the archives gave his staff the brain, sure, but it also shows that the justice department did not ask for its return or make a note saying it had been disposed of and would not be returned. So he can hardly be blamed for this big ole mess. 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Michael Crane]

I'd sure like to know if it was Bobby or the White House that was in Burkley's ear calling the shots during the autopsy.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Michael Crane]

If James Jenkins is telling the truth,I am simply baffled and lost for words why they did not find any fragments in the X-rays.They were taken 3 times before the official autopsy.

*Edited to say or at least a minimum of 3 times that night.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Bobby personally disposed of JFK's brain. Maybe. But not without assistance. The paper trail suggests that the archives gave his staff the brain, sure, but it also shows that the justice department did not ask for its return or make a note saying it had been disposed of and would not be returned. So he can hardly be blamed for this big ole mess. 

I would have thought this is evidence in favor of the idea that RFK disposed of the brain. LBJ was very accommodating to the Kennedys after the assassination. That's why the Kennedy family were given control of the autopsy photos and x-rays and why we all now need their permission to see them. LBJ gave the Kennedys that right. It looks to me as suspicious that the Justice Dept, under LBJ, also asked no questions when the brain went missing. Sounds like LBJ again facilitating the Kennedys to take the brain for burial in some fashion and directing the Justice Dept to ask no questions. 

[Pat Speer]

22 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I would have thought this is evidence in favor of the idea that RFK disposed of the brain. LBJ was very accommodating to the Kennedys after the assassination. That's why the Kennedy family were given control of the autopsy photos and x-rays and why we all now need their permission to see them. LBJ gave the Kennedys that right. It looks to me as suspicious that the Justice Dept, under LBJ, also asked no questions when the brain went missing. Sounds like LBJ again facilitating the Kennedys to take the brain for burial in some fashion and directing the Justice Dept to ask no questions. 

The medical evidence was not just handed over to the Kennedys. It was handed over after long negotiations between Kennedy attorneys, the Justice Department and the archives. There's no evidence LBJ had anything to do with it. Within a year, moreover, Johnson and his AG, Ramsey Clark, were pressured into asking for the return of the evidence, The memos asking for the return failed to mention the brain and slides. This could have been deliberate because 1: they knew Bobby had destroyed them, or 2) they thought it was in bad taste, which goes against the purported purpose of the retrieval of the other evidence--to preserve this disgusting stuff for future study. But it could also have been deliberate because the Justice Dept. was scared a study of the brain would re-open the case. (The doctors had viewed the autopsy photos and x-rays, but had never been shown the brain subsequent to 1963). In any event, you can't blame Bobby for the disappearance of the brain when there is NO record of his requesting the brain, having possession of the brain, or destroying the brain, and those who suggested as much, like Baden, were blowing smoke. For years and years people like Baden said the brain was buried at Arlington but this was debunked years ago by researcher Anthony Marsh. it turned out the small box buried at Arlington circa 1966-1967 held the corpse of one of JFK's still-born children, and not his brain. 

P.S. It should also be noted that a 1975 medical journal reported that the brain had just been discovered in the archives. This was years after RFK's demise. Seeing as this was reported just after the Rockefeller Commission's experts had viewed the autopsy materials, it seems probable one of more of these experts was the source. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Larry Hancock]

I wrote about this in SWHT and unfortunately don't recall the details but there was an inquiry into the missing medical material and I came across an internal document essentially saying it had actually been pursued but matters were so sensitive in regard to RFK and the Kennedy family that it was thought best to drop the subject and not pursue it further....it was sort of a notification that the subject was being dropped and everybody should just walk away from it.

[Pat Speer]

9 hours ago, David Josephs said:

@Benjamin Cole

2 sets of x-rays
Multiple sets of conflicting photos
2 Brain exams for 2 different brains
Multiple bullets removed, 1 mentioned in FBI documents. 

Did Bobby make the ear bullet disappear with the intercostal bullet?

How "innocent" and blissfully naive you are...

 

Oy.  

"2 sets of x-rays"  Says who? Ebersole and Custer both signed off on the ones in the archives as authentic. While it remains possible some x-rays were taken that disappeared, there's little doubt the ones we've seen are authentic. 

"Multiple sets of conflicting photos" The ones we have seen are not in conflict, so I assume you're taking the recollections of people 30 years on as gospel, and dismissing the statements and reports of those who actually took the photos. 

"2 Brain exams for 2 different brains" This is a theory put together by Doug Horne to explain why people's memories were in conflict. None of these people ever said there were two exams. And only one report has ever seen the light of day. So Horne's theory is far from a fact. As it fails to explain why, if they'd faked the brain exam, the descriptions and photos of the brain in the record fail to support the single-assassin scenario, we can probably dismiss it. 

"Multiple bullets removed, 1 mentioned in FBI documents." The FBI document was a memo relating information gathered second-hand on the night of the autopsy. As the source for Belmont's statement about the bullet behind the ear would have to have been Sibert and O'Neill, both of whom never admitted saying such a thing, we can suspect it was a mis-communication. As numerous witnesses to the autopsy including Sibert and O'Neill said there was a bullet fragment found behind the right eye, well, it's pretty clear someone mis-heard or someone mis-spoke. In any event, there was no bullet behind the ear. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Pat Speer

[David Josephs]

2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oy.

So says you...  and once again you are terribly wrong on each count....

I get you WISH there wasn't a conspiracy to cover-up the assassination by your posts and your .2% doubt... but there was... 

Notice the FBI memo was written during the autopsy...  you actually think an FBI SA would admit to more bullets than Hoover allows?   Kinda naive given they lied about not being in the morgue for over an hour since they were told never to let JFK out of their sight.

As for the photos - how pedantic is "the ones we've seen" - you want to play that game have at it...  kinda transparent though.

"Ebersole and Custer both signed off".  PEDANTIC and kinda pathetic.

The HSCA is 1977... 14 years, not 30, 40 or 50 years.  Ebersole most definitely messed with the x-rays and lied about his activities that night... I'm sorry that's lost on you.

Pat - I am at a loss for why you maintain this view that the evidence we have is indicative of the event and the activities which followed...
That you believe the words of the very men involved in the cover-up as gospel when we've proven over and over what a charade the autopsy was.
I'm terribly sorry you feel it necessary to interject this dribble in a discussion about the details of a specific part of this cover-up... the most important aspect of the covering up of evidence was what they did to the medical evidence and you post here as if it were an honest accounting of what happened to our president.

Shame on you.

 

Dr. BADEN. Do you recall when you took the X rays in the sequence of taking X rays and you took the X rays initially before any incision was made in the body? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. That is right. 
Dr. BADEN. You took the head, chest, abdomen, extremities? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. The order was skull first, then chest, the trunk. 
Dr. BADEN. I see. When Colonel Finck came in these had already been taken? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. Yes, and repeated once. 
Dr. BADEN. Now when you say repeated, were X rays repeated after the autopsy had started? Do you have an independent recollection of that? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. The second group of X rays were taken either before the incision was made or very shortly thereafter. 
 

Dr. BADEN. Why did you take the two X rays of the pelvis that are similar? Were these taken at the same time or one later? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. I believe that represents the second go around. 
Dr. BADEN. One represents the second go around because there does appear to be fecal in the large intestines on both. 
Dr. EBERSOLE. Right. 
Dr. BADEN. The second go around was after the autopsy had been done. 
Dr. EBERSOLE. No, certainly the autopsy was not completed at the time of the second one. It would have possibly been started but all X rays with the exception of fragments were taken fairly early in the evening. 
 

Dr. PETTY. Then as I understand it there was a quandry where was the bullet and somebody suggested taking a second set of X rays. 
Dr. EBERSOLE. Yes. That suggestion came from a non- medical person, a Secret Service agent. 
Dr. PETTY. All right. So a second set of X rays were taken. 
Dr. EBERSOLE. Yes. 
Dr. PETTY. And, Mike, you say there were three of these that were taken later? 
Dr. BADEN. Yes. We have three. I believe eight. I will name them knowing the body partially eviscerated. 
Dr. PETTY. All right. Did anybody suggest to you or ask you to X ray the viscera that was removed between the first set of X rays and the second? 
Dr. EBERSOLE. No, sir. 
Dr. PETTY. All right.