Did the Plotters View RFK's Murder of Marilyn Monroe as Justification for Killing JFK?

[Tom Gram]

25 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Thanks for the link, Jim.

 

I just read the entire piece by Don McGovern.

 

So, all of the Rothmiller's claims are based on "evidence" that is either contradictory or nonexistent.

No thanks, Michael Griffith. 

Rothmiller claimed to have heard Lawford's confession in 1982 yet made no mention of such a confession for four decades and produced exactly zero evidence that any such confession was actually made. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but Rothmiller has produced no evidence at all.

Extreme skepticism if not outright rejection is warranted here.

 

+1

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Paul and Tom.

Don McGovern is the gold standard on this.

 

[Cory Santos]

7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

True.

It is very hard to even imagine RFK ordering the murder of another individual.

Now...LBJ?

Mac...this Henry Marshall fellow?

Make it look like a suicide...okay?

What about Castro?   Rfk did not know about that?  

[Benjamin Cole]

A general lesson: Unrecorded interviews...well, take with a big grain of salt. 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Cory, please:

Anyone who reads the IG Report, which was declassified in 1995, would know that the CIA plots to kill Castro were never approved by any president.  (See pgs. 132-33)

And RFK only found out about them because of Maheu helping Giancana bug McGuire's room in Vegas.  

When the CIA fessed up to why Maheu had done this, they had to tell RFK about the plots.  But CIA lawyer Larry Huston told him they were over.

This was a deliberate lie.  They were continuing, with Harvey and Rosselli and they knew that when they told him the opposite.

I mean this has been out there for 30 years and some people still do not know it?

Edited September 20, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Brancato]

17 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Cory, please:

Anyone who reads the IG Report, which was declassified in 1995, would know that the CIA plots to kill Castro were never approved by any president.  (See pgs. 132-33)

And RFK only found out about them because of Maheu helping Giancana bug McGuire's room in Vegas.  

When the CIA fessed up to why Maheu had done this, they had to tell RFK about the plots.  But CIA lawyer Larry Huston told him they were over.

This was a deliberate lie.  They were continuing, with Harvey and Rosselli and they knew that when they told him the opposite.

I mean this has been out there for 30 years and some people still do not know it?

Apperently they don’t know it. I keep reading it in one form or another, always presented as gospel truth with apologies to RFK admirers. And Cory, if memory serves, has what he considers to be inside info on Marilyn’s death as well. Please correct me Cory if I’m confusing something. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[Cory Santos]

We have discussed this before.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by Cory Santos

[James DiEugenio]

Even Dick Helms admitted to Bugliosi that this was not true.

John Newman decimated that thesis methodically by taking apart both Bissell and Halpern.

 

[Ron Bulman]

 

[Robert Burrows]

18 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

As some here probably know, in 2021, a serious, credible author, Mike Rothmiller (with Doug Thompson), published the book Bombshell: The Night Bobby Kennedy Killed Marilyn Monroe. Rothmiller makes a strong case that Robert F. Kennedy had Marilyn Monroe murdered because she was about to go public with her affairs with him and JFK. Rothmiller worked for years in the LAPD's Organized Crime Intelligence Division. Because of his position and contacts, he gained access to important new information about Marilyn's death.

Here is an extended interview with Rothmiller about his book and how he obtained the new information included therein, which includes a confession from Peter Lawford [given to Rothmiller himself]: LINK. (He also talks about the RFK and JFK cases, Oswald, LAPD intelligence ops, and the CIA.) [Here is another interview with Rothmiller: LINK, starts at 11:10 and ends at 1:10:49. This interview provides more background on Rothmiller's career and on his research on Marilyn Monroe's death, and it includes info on Frank Sinatra and the Mafia.]

After having a brief affair with JFK, Marilyn began having a more serious, prolonged affair with RFK. At one point, RFK told her he would leave his wife and marry her, but Marilyn soon realized this was not going to happen. Furious at being dumped first by JFK and then by RFK, she decided she would go public with her affairs with JFK and RFK. She made the serious mistake of angrily warning RFK that she was about to go public. 

We know the CIA was aware of Marilyn's affairs with the Kennedy brothers and knew about her threat to reveal the affairs to the press. Marilyn's house had been bugged, with mircophones planted in nearly every room. The CIA was also aware of the contents of the recordngs from those microphones, as a CIA document reveals. The FBI may have been behind the bugging of her house. Also, evidence suggests that the Mafia may have been aware of the affairs and may have known or suspected that Bobby was involved in Marilyn's death.

Undoubtedly, when the plotters learned that RFK had murdered Marilyn Monroe, they saw this as strong justification for killing JFK, since JFK may have known or suspected that Marilyn had been murdered, and since JFK may have known or suspected that RFK was involved in her death. They knew that if they killed RFK, JFK would leave no stone unturned in pursuing his killers, but that if they killed JFK, this would neutralize RFK and would be, in their eyes, justified revenge for RFK's killing of Marilyn Monroe. 

Rothmiller's book goes well beyond Mark Shaw's research on Marilyn Monroe's death (included in Collateral Damage, Denial of Justice, and Fighting for Justice). However, I recommend that interested readers also read Shaw's research on the subject, since he presents a few items of information not found in Rothmiller's book. 

I should add that Rothmiller acknowledges that JFK and RFK did "many great things." He speaks favorably about their policies and achievements. He says he is sad to have to discuss RFK's crime and wishes RFK had not done it.

The title of the post states, as a fact, that RFK murdered MM. It is the continued character assassination of factually murdered man. Sir, have you no shame?

 

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Robert Burrows said:

The title of the post ["Did the Plotters View RFK's Murder of Marilyn Monroe as Justification for Killing JFK?" ] states, as a fact, that RFK murdered MM. .... Sir, have you no shame?

The title of this thread is indeed pathetic and ridiculous.

It's almost as ridiculous as believing that Oswald was innocent of killing JFK and J.D. Tippit. (Almost.)

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Michael Griffith]

18 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

It is very hard to even imagine RFK ordering the murder of another individual.

Why is that? Even some good people can do terrible things if they feel they have no choice. Marilyn was going to hold a press conference in a few days and expose her affairs with RFK and JFK. Her intention to do so was captured by some of the mics planted in her house, as confirmed by a CIA memo. Lawford told Rothmiller that Marilyn said she would hold the press conference on the following Monday. This disclosure would have ruined JFK's presidency and ended Bobby's career--both of them would almost certainly would have had to resign. 

You don't think that Bobby, who was known to have a dark and volatile side, would have felt he had no alternative but to silence Monroe, given what was at stake?

Lawson explained to Rothmiller that he and Bobby tried to talk Marilyn out of going public, and that she and Bobby argued so heatedly that the argument turned violent. It was after the physical confrontation, said Lawford, that Bobby stirred something into a drink that he gave to her. Lawford said he assumed the drink was just a sedative to calm her down, but he realized it was much more when she passed out and then turned ashen gray. Then, said Lawford, two of Bobby's fixers showed up, and Bobby told Lawford they had to leave, and then the two fixers went inside the house. Lawford asked Bobby who the two men were, but he wouldn't tell him. 

If you read Rothmiller's book Bombshell, you'll discover that Rothmiller is one of the good guys, if you haven't already discerned this from watching the two interviews with him that I've posted. His exposure of the illegal activities of the LAPD's OCID in his 1992 book L.A. Secret Police led to the elimination of the division. He also called out the LAPD for its systemic racism in his book. If you've watched the two YouTube interviews, you know he's also very critical of the CIA. 

Soon after Rothmiller met with Lawford, OCID tried to assassinate Rothmiller, and the LAPD shamefully harassed him and his family after he recovered from the assassination attempt. The LAPD also tried to deny him a medical retirement settlement, but luckily the judge who heard his appeal sided with him and roundly condemned the LAPD for how it had treated him. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Tom Gram]

 

29 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Why is that? Even some good people can do terrible things if they feel they have no choice. Marilyn was going to hold a press conference in a few days and expose her affairs with RFK and JFK. Her intention to do so was captured by some of the mics planted in her house, as confirmed by a CIA memo. Lawford told Rothmiller that Marilyn said she would hold the press conference on the following Monday. This disclosure would have ruined JFK's presidency and ended Bobby's career--both of them would almost certainly would have had to resign. 

You don't think that Bobby, who was known to have a dark and volatile side, would have felt he had no alternative but to silence Monroe, given what was at stake?

Lawson explained to Rothmiller that he and Bobby tried to talk Marilyn out of going public, and that she and Bobby argued so heatedly that the argument turned violent. It was after the physical confrontation, said Lawford, that Bobby stirred something into a drink that he gave to her. Lawford said he assumed the drink was just a sedative to calm her down, but he realized it was much more when she passed out and then turned ashen gray. Then, said Lawford, two of Bobby's fixers showed up, and Bobby told Lawford they had to leave, and then the two fixers went inside the house. Lawford asked Bobby who the two men were, but he wouldn't tell him. 

If you read Rothmiller's book Bombshell, you'll discover that Rothmiller is one of the good guys, if you haven't already discerned this from watching the two interviews with him that I've posted. His exposure of the illegal activities of the LAPD's OCID in his 1992 book L.A. Secret Police led to the elimination of the division. He also called out the LAPD for its systemic racism in his book. If you've watched the two YouTube interviews, you know he's also very critical of the CIA. 

Soon after Rothmiller met with Lawford, OCID tried to assassinate Rothmiller, and the LAPD shamefully harassed him and his family after he recovered from the assassination attempt. The LAPD also tried to deny him a medical retirement settlement, but luckily the judge who heard his appeal sided with him and roundly condemned the LAPD for how it had treated him. 

And if you read McGovern’s piece, you’ll realize that Rothmiller has zero evidence whatsoever for any of this claims, and that his core arguments are totally contradicted by the facts of the case, including some of his own prior statements. 

Rothmiller’s alleged “transcriptions” of the alleged little red diary are so laughably fake it’s insulting, but what’s worse is the diary didn’t even “exist” until Slatzer’s book in 1974. McGovern has proven that book is complete fiction beyond any doubt - it was literally a conspiracy between Will Fowler, Slatzer, and Frank Capell to make money on the heels of Normal Mailer’s book.

https://marilynfromthe22ndrow.com/wp/main-text-a/the-tarradiddlists/an-alleged-second-husband/

Rothmiller’s book is just another fabrication in the Slatzer-Capell cottage industry tradition of RFK did it bull****. Jim is right, McGovern has completely demolished Rothmiller and Bombshell; and it is utterly insane to believe anything Rothmiller says after reading McGovern’s work. 

[Gerry Down]

55 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

If you read Rothmiller's book Bombshell, you'll discover that Rothmiller is one of the good guys, if you haven't already discerned this from watching the two interviews with him that I've posted. His exposure of the illegal activities of the LAPD's OCID in his 1992 book L.A. Secret Police led to the elimination of the division. He also called out the LAPD for its systemic racism in his book. If you've watched the two YouTube interviews, you know he's also very critical of the CIA. 

Soon after Rothmiller met with Lawford, OCID tried to assassinate Rothmiller, and the LAPD shamefully harassed him and his family after he recovered from the assassination attempt. The LAPD also tried to deny him a medical retirement settlement, but luckily the judge who heard his appeal sided with him and roundly condemned the LAPD for how it had treated him. 

Is it possible Rothmiller has some sort of over zealous desire for revenge on his old employer, the LAPD, that he has manufactured them into the story of Monroes death by having them be two fixers who assisted RFK in the death of Monroe?

It reminds me a bit of Roger Craig who became so disenchanted with the DPD and Sherriff Department that he started making up all sorts of stuff about them towards the end of his life which contradicted his earlier statements and testimony closer to the time of the JFK assassination.

[Michael Griffith]

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Here is a link to Don McGovern's demolition of Rothmiller.

https://marilynfromthe22ndrow.com/wp/bombshell-the-night-rfk-killed-marilyn/

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh no, now Mike has descended into the whole Marilyn Monroe cesspool?

Peter Lawford never said any such thing.  In fact, he said the opposite to the authorities.

Rothmiller's book has been destroyed piece by piece by the best guy in the field, Don McGovern.

Monroe took her own life, either willfully or by accident.  And Bobby Kennedy was never in Brentwood that day or night and that is provable.

Mark Shaw is another of these gaseous blowhards who preaches this rubbish.  Don and I will have a decimating review on his public talk in Allen Texas soon.

And I am prepping a long, intricate overview of this whole morass titled, "Joyce Carol Oates, Brad Pitt and the Road to Blonde."

You must be kidding. How you could call McGovern's emotional-fan hit piece a "demolition" is beyond me. Have you even read Bombshell? 

Yes, folks, do go read McGovern's "demolition" and then read Bombshell and watch the two YouTube interviews with Rothmiller that I've posted in the OP, and then make up your own minds.

Oh, Lawford said something different to the authorities! Well, uh, yes, of course he did! What kind of grade-school argument is this? Gee, O'Donnell told the WC that he only heard shots from behind! Case closed, right? 

And, yes, Bobby was in Los Angeles that day. In your upcoming "decimating review" of Shaw's presentation in Allen, Texas, are you going to deal with the evidence that Rothmiller, Thompson, and Shaw present in their books that RFK was in LA that day? Are you aware that a former LAPD official and a former LAPD police officer admitted in their memoirs that RFK was in LA that day? 

I suspect your promised "decimating review" will be as misleading and ideologically driven as your ridiculous "review" of Selverstone's book The Kennedy Withdrawal.

So you buy the suicide/accidental overdose claim??? I suppose Dorothy Kilgallen accidentally overdosed as well, right? 

It is quite sad and odd to see you attacking genuine good guys like Mike Rothmiller and Mark Shaw. You attack any authors who do not subscribe to your abject worship of JFK and RFK as ultra-liberal saviors, no matter how sincere and credible they are, and even if they acknowledge that JFK and RFK did many good things.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Michael Griffith