Oswald's Last Letter Puzzled FBI

[Scotty Moore]

58 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I believe she gave a copy of the letter to her FBI contact before the JFK assassination. Cant remember who that contact was. It wasn't Hosty. Looks like she was trying to get LHO in trouble. Marina had told Ruth that Oswald had been in Houston looking for work. Maybe Ruth was hoping that upon receipt of her copy of the letter being handed over to the FBI, the FBI would call to the house and inform Marina that LHO had been in Mexico City which would cause a fight between Marina and LHO. What Ruth didn't know though was that Marina knew full well LHO had been to Mexico City and that Marina had been lying to her when she had told her LHO had been in Houston looking for work. 

Thanks for that Gerry 

[James DiEugenio]

Gerry:

What is your proof that Marina knew LHO had been to Mexico CIty?

That is not what she said to the Secret Service in her first interview after the assassination.

[Gerry Down]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Gerry:

What is your proof that Marina knew LHO had been to Mexico CIty?

That is not what she said to the Secret Service in her first interview after the assassination.

I'm taking the position that in the immediate aftermath of the assassination Marina was following LHOs wishes in keeping the visit to Mexico private and she was going along with this. Just like how she destroyed one of the backyard photos. She was trying to help LHOs position. Then after LHO died and the evidence was presented to her that he had been in Mexico City and not in Houston she decided to open up and tell the truth that that was in fact where he had been. She admitted in her WC testimony that she knew he had been to Mexico City. 

On a seperate note, that article Douglas Caddy posted says that Marina knew of the Nov 9th letter before the assassination. The same letter that mentions the Mexico City trip. I can't think off-hand how the article would know that as a fact.

That's where my research has taken me. I know others on here think he was never in Mexico City. They are free to believe that. I take John Newmans position with regard to Mexico City - Oswald was there and at the embassies but he was also impersonated on the phone.

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Absolute nonsense. Ruth is on record as to why she copied the letter, and her reasons for doing so are perfectly legitimate without having to accuse of her of being a government spy. 

JC--

Please expand. 

What are the legitimate reasons for reading private correspondence of house guests, and then copying the contents of that correspondence? 

[Gerry Down]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

JC--

Please expand. 

What are the legitimate reasons for reading private correspondence of house guests, and then copying the contents of that correspondence? 

The reason she gave was because it was her typewriter and she didn't like him writing what she claimed were lies on her typewriter. But she gave him permission to use that typewriter which would arguably nullify her reasoning. 

[Gerry Down]

At least what she claimed were lies. That is him being in Mexico City. But if she genuinely thought they were lies she would hardly have felt the need to give the FBI a copy of the letter. The fact she passed on the letter to the FBI would appear to indicate she believed the contents of the letter to be true. This therefore would have completely nullified her reasoning for why she was claiming she was justified in reading and copying his letter.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

The reason she gave was because it was her typewriter and she didn't like him writing what she claimed were lies on her typewriter. But she gave him permission to use that typewriter which would arguably nullify her reasoning. 

There is an archetype, now forgotten, that used to survive in America, that is the New England pilgrim, or Quaker, very much a do-gooder and busy body. As I recall, Ruth Paine had no children. 

She obviously had stuck her nose deeply into the Oswald's affairs, and was policing all aspects of that marriage. 

Maybe that's why she copied the letter. Still seems odd. 

[Gerry Down]

She has a few children. At least one son, Chris, and a daughter. She seemed to be doing the same thing the other White Russians were doing back in late 1962 - seperating the capitalist Marina from the communist Lee. Especially before he could take her back behind the iron curtain again which he was threatening to do.

[Pamela Brown]

21 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Absolute nonsense. Ruth is on record as to why she copied the letter, and her reasons for doing so are perfectly legitimate without having to accuse of her of being a government spy. 

Ruth got Lee Oswald into a lot of trouble. In fact, it could be said she dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't' to cause as much trouble for him as possible while pretending to 'help'...

I think there are too many odd coincidences to buy into  the "ever-so-helpful" myth about Ruth...i

But if she was in fact a 'govt spy' as you suggest I am claiming, just whose 'govt' would she have been taking orders from? 

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:54 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

As I said, I have been on the sidelines regarding Ruth Paine. 

But can you imagine? Copying the letter of a house guest? 

Even reading someone's private correspondence is considered uncivil. 

Ruth Paine could be the busy body of all time. Or a handler of a type. 

Exactly.  She is definitely not as she appears...she pretty much 'helped' Lee Oswald to his grave...

[Jonathan Cohen]

20 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Ruth got Lee Oswald into a lot of trouble. In fact, it could be said she dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't' to cause as much trouble for him as possible while pretending to 'help'...

I think there are too many odd coincidences to buy into  the "ever-so-helpful" myth about Ruth...i

But if she was in fact a 'govt spy' as you suggest I am claiming, just whose 'govt' would she have been taking orders from? 

More complete nonsense. Ruth did nothing to Oswald that Oswald hadn't already set in motion himself.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:34 AM, Jonathan Cohen said:

Absolute nonsense. Ruth is on record as to why she copied the letter, and her reasons for doing so are perfectly legitimate without having to accuse of her of being a government spy. 

 

OMG, you are so right Jonathan!  I mean, had Ruth Paine been a CIA asset, she simply would have admitted so! 

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

OMG, you are so right Jonathan!  I mean, had Ruth Paine been a CIA asset, she simply would have admitted so! 

Your attempt at humor notwithstanding, there's not a shred of actual evidence that Ruth Paine was anything other than a Dallas housewife.

[Benjamin Cole]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:04 PM, David Boylan said:

How did Oswald know about Azcue's pending transfer back to Havana? I'd speculate that is either #2 (CIA) or as my friend Larry Hancock suggests, Sylvia Duran. A good case can be made for #2. The CIA lied to the FBI about when they knew about Azcue's pending transfer. There was long time effort to recruit Azcue as an asset. How do you get close enough to Azcue to recruit him? The CIA opted to use a longtime friend of Azcue that just happened to be a CIA that was a member of the "Stay Behind" network in Cuba that was setup by David Morales and run Tony Sforza and Emilio Rodriguez. The friend was Jose Casas (AMOT-106). During Casas' August 9th meeting Azcue told Casas that he "would be departing for Cuba PCS with his wife and 2 daughters." Winston Scott, Mexico City COS, then pressured Casas' case officer Tony Sforza to try and get Casas back to Mexico City again in September to try one more shot at recruiting Azcue as either an asset in place in Havana or have him defect before his scheduled recall date of October 4, 1963.

Casas also "witness and American male, with a small boy" at the consulate. The Mexican secretary (Sylvia Duran) "stated to (Casas) that the American was a stupid fool for wanting to take his son to the "Cuban hell."  Casas also noted that Azcue and Duran were very familiar with each other. 🙂

Notice item D last sentence "that the main concern of the GOC (Government of Cuba) is the Project that is headed by Manuel ARTIME." 

I think it's amazing that the GOC knew of Project AMWORLD as early as August 1963.

DB-

I have trouble following your commentary. Can you simplify, or add context?

What is the best explanation of LHO's knowledge regarding the inner workings of Cuban consulate? 

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:54 AM, Jonathan Cohen said:

More complete nonsense. Ruth did nothing to Oswald that Oswald hadn't already set in motion himself.

"Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest most wonderful human being I have ever known in my life."

(The cover psycho-babble for assassin Raymond Shaw, in The Manchurian Candidate.)