Jim's review of Bart Kamp's Prayerman

[Roger Odisio]

Pete:

Jim's excellent review of 'Prayer Man: More Than A Fuzzy Picture' on Kennedys and King here:-

Prayer Man: More Than A Fuzzy Picture by Bart Kamp (kennedysandking.com)

Thanks for the heads up, Pete.  I think Jim's review deserves its own thread.

The review is well organized and packed with important detail.  At one point in the book Bart makes the point that the police and then the WC had no case  that could withstand scrutiny. Jim clearly summarizes much of the information Bart sets out that leads to that conclusion.

And the WC knew it, which is why Oswald was so quickly murdered before he could talk to a lawyer.

As Jim concludes:  "All in all, this is a credible effort which forges some new ground and replows some old ground in a new way. The matters Kamp examines go literally to the heart of the basics of the JFK case."

I particularly liked Jim's focus at the end on that major villain, NBC, now part of the Comcast empire.  They have done everything they could to dismiss or ignore the information that has surfaced in the last 60 years.  And they are hiding several pieces that are important to understanding the murder, like the Darnell and Wiegman films locked away in New York.  NBC, a "news" organization.  

Bart chose his title carefully.  His book is about "more than a fuzzy picture".  Its analysis and conclusions do not depend on that shadowy figure being Oswald.  He details the case for the exoneration of Oswald.  A major accomplishment.

 

[Anthony Thorne]

I agree, a great review. When I'm slightly more cashed up than I am this minute, I'll be getting that book.

[James DiEugenio]

NBC also never cooperated with the ARRB on the Sheridan documents.

[Roger Odisio]

1 hour ago, Anthony Thorne said:

I agree, a great review. When I'm slightly more cashed up than I am this minute, I'll be getting that book.

You can now get the book in paperback for $24 from Barnes and Noble, so you don't have to give your money to Amazon and Jeff Bezos.

[Marcus Fuller]

It was the first book I've read on the JFK subject so I don't have any research clout to add any weight to my comments, but I thought the book was interesting and cleared up some of the things I was not sure about. I can certainly recommend it to anyone who is new to the subject. The parts regarding the interrogations was very thorough. 

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

I agree, a great review. When I'm slightly more cashed up than I am this minute, I'll be getting that book.

I agree too and hear you.  I know now what to ask Santa Claus for this year.  I've admired Bart and Uncle Malcom's work for year now.  Hidell wasn't born until 11/23/1963?

[Joseph Borelli]

I ordered and just started reading "Prayer Man". Bart's research into the employees of the TSBD and the 2nd floor encounter is extraordinary and fascinating! @James DiEugenio that was a great review of his book on K&K. We need more people like Bart in this community so other people can digitalize and preserve older researcher's files for the next generation of researchers in the meticulous way Bart has with Malcom Blunt's files. Groden is an example of someone who has countless files and films disorganized in his basement that need to be digitized and shared with the research community so that we can possibly add some more pieces to the puzzle! 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Joseph Borelli

[Benjamin Cole]

I probably disagree with this book, but it is proper that various lines of inquiry be advanced, since the federal government has lied and obscured regarding the JFKA, and continues to do so.

For me, the blurry image on the steps is just too blurry to be of use.  And no one says they saw LHO on the stairs, or anywhere, during the JFKA. 

There are inevitable earnest errors in affidavits. 

There are some questions regarding the excellent work of Barry Ernest as well. 

There are multiple earnest witnesses that someone stuck a rifle out of the TSBD sixth floor during the JFKA, and fired. None could ID the shooter. There are even multiple witnesses that more than one person was on the sixth floor, shortly before or during the JFKA.

OK, how did those people get down and out of the building without being seen? Yet they did. 

So, if LHO was on the sixth floor, then it stands to reason he also could descend the stairs without being seen. 

My suspicion is LHO fired one shot intended to miss, quickly exited, put his rifle into the arranged cubby hole, and descended the stairs ahead of observers. If that was not LHO, then LHO was essentially sequestered unseen inside the TSBD by someone during the JFKA, likely on some ruse. 

One could hardly make LHO the patsy if he was copiously photographed on the street watching JFK pass. 

If the plan was to make LHO the patsy, then the plotters could not allow LHO anywhere he might be seen. 

But to repeat, following various reasonable lines of inquiry regarding the JFKA is valuable. 

I still wonder what happened on the second floor of the TSBD, behind the locked doors of Southwestern Publishing...

 

 

 

 

[Bill Fite]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

One could hardly make LHO the patsy if he was copiously photographed on the street watching JFK pass. 

If the plan was to make LHO the patsy, then the plotters could not allow LHO anywhere he might be seen. 

Unless the plan was to make him look like a patsy through the purchase of the rifle.  In that case if he was seen he would just look like one of the members of the team that committed the murder no matter how much he denied it.  He could even be accused of letting the shooter(s) into the building.

 If he's not seen, or even if he is by someone that isn't believed getting change for the soda machine, well we know what happens in that case.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Bill Fite
add sentence

[James DiEugenio]

Please, Bill and Ben.

How long did it take for the PM figure to take hold in the critical community?

Like maybe 45 years after Bernabei's work was lost?

There were two people in or around the building who were seen, Baker's guy on the 3rd or 4th floor, and Worrell's guy running out the back.

LHO was not on the 6th floor at the time, when you have to lie like Givens' lied and Brennan lied, it did not happen.

And LaTona exposed the lie by Day.

Edited October 22, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

38 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Please, Bill and Ben.

How long did it take for the PM figure to take hold in the critical community.

Like maybe 45 years after Bernabei's work was lost?

There were two people in or around the building who were seen, Baker's guy on the 3rd or 4th floor, and Worrell's guy running out the back.

LHO was not on the 6th floor at the time, when you have to lie like Givens' lied and Brennan lied, it did not happen.

And LaTona exposed the lie by Day.

JD--

Again, I think it is worthy to explore the JFKA from all angles, given the intentional government suppression of information regarding the JFKA, that continues to this day. 

I ask this: I credit earnest witnesses (Amos Euins for one) with seeing someone stick a rifle out of the 6th floor TSBD window and firing during the JFKA. Indeed, it may even be there were two people on the 6th floor during the TSBD.

Yet those one or two people descended the stairs without being seen on the stairs. 

Thus LHO could have descended the stairs without being seen (as I suspect). Pat Speer think LHO just took the elevator.  

Just IMHO. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

12 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

Unless the plan was to make him look like a patsy through the purchase of the rifle.  In that case if he was seen he would just look like one of the members of the team that committed the murder no matter how much he denied it.  He could even be accused of letting the shooter(s) into the building.

 If he's not seen, or even if he is by someone that isn't believed getting change for the soda machine, well we know what happens in that case.

 

BF--

That's a good point. 

To wit, here is a narrative:  LHO arranged for the rifle, maybe brought it onsite TSBD, acted as lookout perhaps...but did not do the actual firing, since he was seen on the sidewalk as the President passed by. 

This would make LHO the patsy in an obvious conspiracy, since he did not do the actual shooting. 

By Nov. 23, the government was crafting the lone assassin narrative, or perhaps had it already drafted. Certainly, officials had more-or-less settled on the LN narrative within hours.

If that had been the official plan all along, then the JFKA planners would have sequestered LHO, at the least, during the JFKA. 

It could be the actual JFKA perps were not tied to the highest echelons of government, but were "rogue" CIA elements, and did not care about the narrative. The government forced the subsequent narrative into place. 

I admire the work done on PrayerMan. I criticize no one. 

Still, to some degree the excellent PrayerMan work also seems to detail that unless LHO is PrayerMan, then where is he? Most other TSBD employees (nearly all) are accounted for. (I forget whether Kamp examines the whereabouts of Southwestern Publishing employees, and other non-TSBD workers).

Not one person ever said they saw LHO as gunshots rang out, or even said that they said it, but that their affidavits were monkeyed with.  

Unfortunately, the image of PrayerMan is so blurred as to be useless, and may even just be a passerby, a non-TSBD'er who sought a vantage point to watch the President. No one on the steps has ever said they said they saw LHO there. 

....

IMHO, LHO was a CIA asset, and elements of the CIA are the most likely perps of the JFKA. LHO was involved in some way, which explains why he went home and armed himself, and then into a movie theater. He knew he had been made into the patsy.

If LHO was just a guy packing boxes that day, why did he quickly assume he was the patsy? 

The creation of the whole LHO biography, his time in New Orleans, his visit to Valery Kostikov in MC makes no sense unless the plan was to use him somehow in false flag op. 

Just IMHO. 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Sandy Larsen]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

For me, the blurry image on the steps is just too blurry to be of use.

 

Which is why the book isn't about the blurry image.

 

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

And no one says they saw LHO on the stairs, or anywhere, during the JFKA. 

 

Suppose for a moment that a couple of people did notice Oswald standing on the steps outside when the president got shot.

Don't you think that the coverup artists would have done something to cover that up given that they were trying to make Oswald a lone patsy? For example, maybe the coverup artists told those who saw Oswald that it was important that he be given the soul blame, rather than have an international incident be suspected, which could lead to WW3. You don't think that would keep them silent?

 

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

There are inevitable earnest errors in affidavits. 

 

Uh, right.... So Officer Baker wrote up his report while sitting in the DPD office, but completely forgets to mention his interaction with prime-suspect Oswald, who was sitting in Fritz's office just down the hall.

Or that he did write about his interaction with prime-suspect Oswald (on the "third or fourth floor"), but got confused and described a man who looks nothing like the Oswald, and who walked toward Baker in the hallway rather than buying a coke inside the second floor lunchroom, like Oswald did.

Sure Ben. Mistakes are made.

(It is you who makes up these so-called mistakes, which you are forced to do to make them fit your theory. Which explains why they are so goofy.)

 

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

.... someone stuck a rifle out of the TSBD sixth floor during the JFKA, and fired. .... How did those people get down and out of the building without being seen?

 

The TSBD must have been a CIA front. That's the only way to explain a lot of things.

 

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

One could hardly make LHO the patsy if he was copiously photographed on the street watching JFK pass. 

 

 

Sure they could. The coverup artists could say that Oswald was the leader of an assassin team. The leader could be standing anywhere.

But once the coverup artists viewed most the photographs and films, and saw that there were none where Oswald could unmistakably be seen, they decided to go all the way and make Oswald the lone patsy.

If a later photograph did pop up that looked like Oswald, they could say that was merely a resemblance.

 

On 10/20/2023 at 7:43 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

But to repeat, following various reasonable lines of inquiry regarding the JFKA is valuable.

 

Though it will never be valuable to Ben, because he has his conspiracy theory and he is forever sticking by it.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

SL--

Yes, I have my preferred explanation of the JFKA, as do others, and you. I am only voicing my IMHO. No need to take umbrage. My view is different from your view. I do not take umbrage at your view.  I just have a different view. 

Suppose for a moment that a couple of people did notice Oswald standing on the steps outside when the president got shot.

1. Don't you think that the coverup artists would have done something to cover that up given that they were trying to make Oswald a lone patsy? For example, maybe the coverup artists told those who saw Oswald that it was important that he be given the soul blame, rather than have an international incident be suspected, which could lead to WW3. You don't think that would keep them silent?---SL

The above is possible, but so far no one has come forward and said, " I did see LHO on the stairs, but was told to be quiet." Other people have, in fact, said their affidavits appear with lapses, or even errors, or they were never interviewed by the FBI, or rudely and even threateningly so, and so on. 

AFIAK, not even an errant glory-seeker has come forward and said, "I saw LHO on the stairs/sidewalk when shots rang out." The record includes no photographs of LHO anywhere or before after the JFKA. 

Really, when not one person says they saw LHO when shots rang out, and no one ever has, and there are no photos of LHO immediately before, during or after the JFKA...I think that holds some water. The guy was invisible during the JFKA. Just my IMHO, but not crazy either. 

2. It sure looks like the official narrative, the "LN did the JFKA" was arrived at within hours, or was even pre-hatched. If pre-hatched, that is the plan was all along to blame LHO as a lone nut, then obviously LHO had to be tricked into firing at JFK (an intentional miss, a Walker replay), or sequestered during the JFKA.  These two scenarios explain why no one saw LHO during the JFKA. 

3. I am open to the idea that the TSBD was a CIA front, in a manner of speaking. Though no one has connected William Shelly, Roy Truly or Marion Baker to the CIA. Shelly engaged in some braggadocio, but it is unverifiable. 

4. It was Baker's first time in the TSBD. And a lot of people call the first floor the ground floor, and the second floor the first floor, and so on. Baker and Truly appear to corroborate they saw LHO in the lunchroom, or thereabouts. 

TBH, I am suspicious of the Southwestern Publishing Co. and why their doors were locked during the JFKA with a view to the kill, and why the person inside the offices, visible through a gauzy curtain, would not answer urgent knocking in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, and why she was allowed to leave the TSBD 90 minutes after the JFKA without so much as a brief search. So I am not without my suspicions as well. Add to all that, many people of the TSBD fourth and fifth floors thought the shots had come from beneath them. 

3. When I write is it valuable to follow lines of inquiry, even if I disagree with those lines of inquiry, I am earnest. I think Kamp is doing good work, exhausting leads. 

5. IMHO, LHO was a CIA asset, and unwittingly involved in the day's events, made into a patsy, knew it, and was hightailing it out of there without almost no resources at his command, not even a car. 

The CIA had LHO murdered through a cut-out, Jack Ruby. If not that, likely LHO would have been poisoned in jail. Or maybe hanged himself like Epstein. 

In the big picture, you and I largely agree.  On some details, we differ. So it goes. 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

16 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

No need to take umbrage.

 

I was just responding to your criticisms of Bart Kamp's thesis.

It was only in my last sentence that I criticized you. It is my criticism and I'm sticking by it.