Rob Reiner And Soledad O'Brien Aim To Reveal JFK's Real Killers

[Richard Booth]

Below are my notes on the 35 minute episode, #3, about the forensics. They do not begin discussing autopsy photos until the very end. They do not discuss the brain at all from my recollection. 

The short format makes it so you cannot go into enough detail to cover what needs to be covered.

Forensics episode (3)

1. Humes burned the autopsy draft
2. Humes and Boswell not qualified (Doug Horne) to conduct gunshot autopsies
3. HSCA: George Joannides compromised investigation, says that Joannides "oversaw the special ops program that recruited Oswald" (what?)
4. Forensic evidence is critical. The forensic evidence from the bullets to the gun to the photographs--all heavily disputed
5. Cyril Wecht talks about the WC conclusion of 1 shooter, says wrong
6. Reiner describes how the WC concluded there were 3 shots, says from Z-film
7. David Mantik talks about James Tague. Explains how him being struck + JFK head shot + the conclusion of 3 shots requires that all of JFK and Connally's wounds come from a single bullet
8. Wecht talks again, explains Arlen Spector's "Single Bullet Theory"
9. Reiner says shot to the back could not have come out of JFK's throat, clip of Wecht played saying same
10. Dick Russell says Connally and JFK hit by separate bullets
11. Reiner asks "how did the bullet look?" - Wecht comments on CE399 - Reiner says "looks pristine"
12. Reiner asks "Where did they find the magic bullet?" - Wecht says found on a stretcher
13. Reiner talks about Paul Landis (Secret Service) and plays clips of newsmedia talking about Landis
14. Reiner interviews Paul Landis. Asks "how far away were you?" - "15 to 20 feet"
15. Landis says "shortly after the second shot I heard the third shot" - says this was the head shot
16. Landis says when they got to Parkland he looked in the limo, saw pool of blood where JFK was sitting next to Jackie. Says he looked and saw 'a pristine bullet' there. Says "I picked it up"
17. Landis says the bullet he picked up was CE399. Says it was pristine but had striations on it
18. Landis talks about how the bullet was important evidence so he put bullet in his pocket
19. Landis then says he reached into his pocket, removed the bullet, and placed it next to JFK's "left shoe" in the ER of Parkland. So much for "important evidence" huh?
20. Reiner says there had to be a 4th shot, says Landis picked up a bullet that had broken no bones
21. Landis says he never said anything about this until now because "nobody ever asked" (so much for important evidence)
22. Reiner again talks about the number of shots. Plays clip of Wecht describing how it takes 2.3 seconds to chamber a round in the MC rifle
23. Reiner says timing of shots shows more than 1 shooter. Doesn't do a very good job at emphasizing this, only the Wecht clip is played without any follow-up emphasis nor any description of how the shots were much closer together than 2.3 seconds: e.g. shots 3-4 being "almost simultaneous" as described by S.M. Holland. He should have played audio of S.M. Holland saying this after the Wecht clip.
24. Reiner talks about the Parkland doctors and what they saw. Talks about Perry, says later that day he talked to the press and described shot in the throat (Reiner said 'neck') was an entrance wound. A transcript of Perry is read by Soledad O'Brien.
25. Reiner talks about a notebook kept by Martin Stedman's notebook, clip of Mantik is played talking about it. Says a week after assassination Perry was asked about the neck wound, asked "what do you really believe? Was it an entrance wound?" and Perry said 'absolutely' an entry wound. Perry told Stedman he was called several times by Bethesda doctors that evening, says they threatened to take away his medical license if he said the throat wound was a wound of entry. 
26. Reiner asks "why would Perry change his mind?"
27. Dick Russell talks about Elmer Moore intimidating Perry 
28. Dick Russell & Wecht talk about massive headwound in rear of head
29. Dick Russell talks about Dr. Kemp Clark saying a massive wound in rear of head
30. Reiner and Russell talk about McClelland having seen a hole in back of the head
31. David Mantik talks about a hole the size of an orange in back of the head
32. Reiner says "shot that killed the President came from the front"
33. Doug Horne talks about the Dallas doctors: big blowout in right rear portion of the head
34. 29 minutes into a 39 minute episode and Reiner hasn't covered the x-rays or autopsy photos
35. Doug Horne talks about the autopsy photos at 30 minutes in. 
36. Mantik talks about the autopsy photos, talks about how there is barely any blood looks like the hair has been washed
37. Dick Russell talks about Sonda Spencer, plays audio/narrates her ARRB interview where she says the autopsy photos are not the photos she developed
38. Mantik says the actual authentic autopsy photos would show a massive hole in the back of the head, says we have people who have seen those photos (presumably same photos Spencer developed)
39. Doug Horne talks about how Perry was threatened, Bethesda constantly calling him trying to get him to change his mind about the throat wound
40. Horne talks about Humes and Boswell meeting at 10:00 the next morning to discuss the autopsy
41. 34 of 39 minutes: Reiner provides a summary of what was talked about in the episode
42. Reiner says "All of this points to shooters in other locations" and "Oswald did not do it alone" 
43. Reiner says "the evidence is going to show that Oswald was part of a narrative" that "he didn't know"
44. Outro talks about "next time on Who Killed JFK" ...

 

[James DiEugenio]

In point 25, what Richard means is "a reporter's notebook kept by journalist Martin Steadman."

This was discovered by Rob Couteau.  And then I wrote an article based on that and some of what was in The Parkland Doctors, now called What the Doctors Saw.

BTW, I have not seen the latter yet, but almost everyone tells me they liked it.  They added Horne and my co writer on The JFK Assassination Chokeholds, Matt Crumpton.

[Richard Booth]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

In point 25, what Richard means is "a reporter's notebook kept by journalist Martin Steadman."

This was discovered by Rob Couteau.  And then I wrote an article based on that and some of what was in The Parkland Doctors, now called What the Doctors Saw.

BTW, I have not seen the latter yet, but almost everyone tells me they liked it.  They added Horne and my co writer on The JFK Assassination Chokeholds, Matt Crumpton.

Thanks Jim. Yes I was not very clear on that. 

I was just taking notes as I listened, minute by minute. I numbered them mostly to seperate each note. The notes were mostly just to describe the content, I think I only made a couple points myself (re: what Reiner said about Joannides, and how it's so odd that Landis said that bullet was important evidence then he just discards it in a hospital and tells no one about that--makes no sense)

[Richard Booth]

This is a partial transcript of what Landis said.

17:39
"I raced to the President's limosine. Mrs. Kennedy was sitting on left center of the rear seat. There was a pool of blood next to Mrs. Kennedy. She stood up, right behind where she had been sitting there was a pristine bullet. I picked this bullet up. It was not disformed other than recognized striations on it."

I'm not buying it

It doesn't make sense to remove forensic evidence in what (then) could have been viewed as a possible Soviet assassination plot. It was the most important investigation in 100 years. You're working for the premiere law enforcement protective organization. So you just break chain of custody and move forensic evience from one place to another and say absolutely nothing about it?

[Marcus Fuller]

If you listen to the podcasts on Youtube there is a transcript link in the description. The transcript also contains timestamps which are linked.

Figured I'd mention it as it might help for note taking and quickly finding info

[Mike Aitken]

On 11/25/2023 at 1:25 PM, Richard Booth said:

Below are my notes on the 35 minute episode, #3, about the forensics. They do not begin discussing autopsy photos until the very end. They do not discuss the brain at all from my recollection. 

The short format makes it so you cannot go into enough detail to cover what needs to be covered.

Forensics episode (3)

1. Humes burned the autopsy draft
2. Humes and Boswell not qualified (Doug Horne) to conduct gunshot autopsies
3. HSCA: George Joannides compromised investigation, says that Joannides "oversaw the special ops program that recruited Oswald" (what?)
4. Forensic evidence is critical. The forensic evidence from the bullets to the gun to the photographs--all heavily disputed
5. Cyril Wecht talks about the WC conclusion of 1 shooter, says wrong
6. Reiner describes how the WC concluded there were 3 shots, says from Z-film
7. David Mantik talks about James Tague. Explains how him being struck + JFK head shot + the conclusion of 3 shots requires that all of JFK and Connally's wounds come from a single bullet
8. Wecht talks again, explains Arlen Spector's "Single Bullet Theory"
9. Reiner says shot to the back could not have come out of JFK's throat, clip of Wecht played saying same
10. Dick Russell says Connally and JFK hit by separate bullets
11. Reiner asks "how did the bullet look?" - Wecht comments on CE399 - Reiner says "looks pristine"
12. Reiner asks "Where did they find the magic bullet?" - Wecht says found on a stretcher
13. Reiner talks about Paul Landis (Secret Service) and plays clips of newsmedia talking about Landis
14. Reiner interviews Paul Landis. Asks "how far away were you?" - "15 to 20 feet"
15. Landis says "shortly after the second shot I heard the third shot" - says this was the head shot
16. Landis says when they got to Parkland he looked in the limo, saw pool of blood where JFK was sitting next to Jackie. Says he looked and saw 'a pristine bullet' there. Says "I picked it up"
17. Landis says the bullet he picked up was CE399. Says it was pristine but had striations on it
18. Landis talks about how the bullet was important evidence so he put bullet in his pocket
19. Landis then says he reached into his pocket, removed the bullet, and placed it next to JFK's "left shoe" in the ER of Parkland. So much for "important evidence" huh?
20. Reiner says there had to be a 4th shot, says Landis picked up a bullet that had broken no bones
21. Landis says he never said anything about this until now because "nobody ever asked" (so much for important evidence)
22. Reiner again talks about the number of shots. Plays clip of Wecht describing how it takes 2.3 seconds to chamber a round in the MC rifle
23. Reiner says timing of shots shows more than 1 shooter. Doesn't do a very good job at emphasizing this, only the Wecht clip is played without any follow-up emphasis nor any description of how the shots were much closer together than 2.3 seconds: e.g. shots 3-4 being "almost simultaneous" as described by S.M. Holland. He should have played audio of S.M. Holland saying this after the Wecht clip.
24. Reiner talks about the Parkland doctors and what they saw. Talks about Perry, says later that day he talked to the press and described shot in the throat (Reiner said 'neck') was an entrance wound. A transcript of Perry is read by Soledad O'Brien.
25. Reiner talks about a notebook kept by Martin Stedman's notebook, clip of Mantik is played talking about it. Says a week after assassination Perry was asked about the neck wound, asked "what do you really believe? Was it an entrance wound?" and Perry said 'absolutely' an entry wound. Perry told Stedman he was called several times by Bethesda doctors that evening, says they threatened to take away his medical license if he said the throat wound was a wound of entry. 
26. Reiner asks "why would Perry change his mind?"
27. Dick Russell talks about Elmer Moore intimidating Perry 
28. Dick Russell & Wecht talk about massive headwound in rear of head
29. Dick Russell talks about Dr. Kemp Clark saying a massive wound in rear of head
30. Reiner and Russell talk about McClelland having seen a hole in back of the head
31. David Mantik talks about a hole the size of an orange in back of the head
32. Reiner says "shot that killed the President came from the front"
33. Doug Horne talks about the Dallas doctors: big blowout in right rear portion of the head
34. 29 minutes into a 39 minute episode and Reiner hasn't covered the x-rays or autopsy photos
35. Doug Horne talks about the autopsy photos at 30 minutes in. 
36. Mantik talks about the autopsy photos, talks about how there is barely any blood looks like the hair has been washed
37. Dick Russell talks about Sonda Spencer, plays audio/narrates her ARRB interview where she says the autopsy photos are not the photos she developed
38. Mantik says the actual authentic autopsy photos would show a massive hole in the back of the head, says we have people who have seen those photos (presumably same photos Spencer developed)
39. Doug Horne talks about how Perry was threatened, Bethesda constantly calling him trying to get him to change his mind about the throat wound
40. Horne talks about Humes and Boswell meeting at 10:00 the next morning to discuss the autopsy
41. 34 of 39 minutes: Reiner provides a summary of what was talked about in the episode
42. Reiner says "All of this points to shooters in other locations" and "Oswald did not do it alone" 
43. Reiner says "the evidence is going to show that Oswald was part of a narrative" that "he didn't know"
44. Outro talks about "next time on Who Killed JFK" ...

 

I agree, the short format definitely leaves out some important information.  The podcast has a very “NPR” vibe to it, and it appears they were going for this to make it more approachable to newcomers.  I don’t have my hopes up, but we’ll see where these episodes lead.

[Richard Booth]

14 hours ago, Marcus Fuller said:

If you listen to the podcasts on Youtube there is a transcript link in the description. The transcript also contains timestamps which are linked.

Figured I'd mention it as it might help for note taking and quickly finding info

Was not aware it was on YT. Thank you for that, a transcript would save me a lot of time. 

[Richard Booth]

14 hours ago, Marcus Fuller said:

If you listen to the podcasts on Youtube there is a transcript link in the description. The transcript also contains timestamps which are linked.

Figured I'd mention it as it might help for note taking and quickly finding info

Do you have a link? 

I have searched YT for "Who Killed JFK?" and IHeartRadio and not finding it in the results.

I also looked at IHeartRadio's official YT page and it's just short clips. Also looked at IHeartRadio's official page for the podcast and it just has links to listen to it there (not on YT)

Many thanks

[Richard Booth]

39 minutes ago, Richard Booth said:

Do you have a link? 

I have searched YT for "Who Killed JFK?" and IHeartRadio and not finding it in the results.

I also looked at IHeartRadio's official YT page and it's just short clips. Also looked at IHeartRadio's official page for the podcast and it just has links to listen to it there (not on YT)

Many thanks

Found it on Soledad O'Brein's channel

 

[Greg Kooyman]

1 hour ago, Richard Booth said:

Found it on Soledad O'Brein's channel

 

I am so disappointed that Rob Reiner didn’t do any serious fact checking for this series.  I was turned off immediately when he mentioned Tosh Plumlee and his ludicrous story.  It’s too bad because I am sure that Rob’s podcast is reaching a lot of new listeners that may not know that Plumlee’s story is pure fiction.   I was hoping that Reiner would bring something new to the discussion.  I was wrong.  What a waste of a platform.

[Marcus Fuller]

Sorry Richard I should have included a link. In my defence it was getting late 

[John Deignan]

At 4:15 he says there are 4 known paid assassins in Dallas that day. 

[Paul Brancato]

Funny - I’ve listened to the first three and I don’t recall hearing Tosh Plumlee’s name. But in any case, why are so many of you dumping on Reiner? If we were to open a thread on everyone’s theory no one would agree 100%. And none of us are doing a podcast, or writing a book. Wouldn’t it be better to engage him in a discussion? Mr. Booth thinks he’s just reading a script. Sure, there is a writer, but Reiner is clearly hands on. Enough already. You don’t know a friend when you see one. 

[Richard Booth]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:27 PM, Marcus Fuller said:

Sorry Richard I should have included a link. In my defence it was getting late 

I still can't find it - turns out the Soledad O'Brien page only has short clips. 

I've tried searching YouTube, using Google, using Yandex ... if they have this on YouTube it's not easy to find!

[Richard Booth]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:25 AM, Greg Kooyman said:

I am so disappointed that Rob Reiner didn’t do any serious fact checking for this series.  I was turned off immediately when he mentioned Tosh Plumlee and his ludicrous story.  It’s too bad because I am sure that Rob’s podcast is reaching a lot of new listeners that may not know that Plumlee’s story is pure fiction.   I was hoping that Reiner would bring something new to the discussion.  I was wrong.  What a waste of a platform.

I agree. Turned off immediately. Also had the same reaction when he said that Joannides "ran the black ops program that recruited Oswald"

It is important to get details right if you're talking about the CIA given they are a prime suspect and we have a lot of real details (not questionable ones, or made-up stuff) that can and should be covered.

If Reiner had consulted Jim, he could have done a good fact-checking to ensure the script doesn't disinform the listener.