Brian Baccus on Ruth Paine

[Tony Krome]

44 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

Chevybelairgate…..blue,green,tan, two tone…..?

[Sean Coleman]

Haha, was gonna post those pics to add to the confusion!

ps. The wreck is Ruth’s actual car

[Tony Krome]

6 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

It was dusk or night when vision is impaired.

So you have two colour blind ladies and a gentleman with vision that was impaired.

Thanks! 

 

[Tony Krome]

1 minute ago, Sean Coleman said:

Haha, was gonna post those pics to add to the confusion!

ps. The wreck is Ruth’s actual car

Where did the dark green roof go on the wreck? Is there a dark green heaven?

[Tony Krome]

3 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

The wreck is Ruth’s actual car

Yeah, they changed the blue photo to green after the wreck was discovered. Spooky!

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:

Chevybelairgate…..blue,green,tan, two tone…..?

Sean, I wondered about that too, but Joe Alesi, Ruth's friend in California who is a collector and I think knows the current owner of Ruth Paine's old station wagon, helped fill in some information when I asked him about this a year or so ago.

The blue is purely an artifact of the photography process. The car in the photo is really single-tone light green but with too much blue in the color processing making the light green illusorily look light blue.

The car as it came from the factory and through 1963 and at least the first part of 1964 was two-tone dark green (Neptune Green) over light green (Seamist Green). At some point later than Feb 28, 1964 the top was repainted the same light green to match the lower part, making it a single-tone and this photo reflects that. Here is a classic cars site description of Ruth Paine's station wagon with some history: https://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/75293-lee-harvey-oswald-1955-chevy-belair-station-wagon-with-jfk-assassination-ties.html#google_vignette.

Confirmation that Ruth Paine's station wagon was still two-tone dark green and light green on Feb 28, 1964: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1140#relPageId=715.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Jean Ceulemans]

Jim

Lunch break here, a few notes

First : I can only answer questions on things that I have read about and/or have studied, and I haven’t been along for that long, you should know that

Somehow you often seem to think it has to be all black, or all white, all right or all left?

I guess we are different on that, I believe that things are often gray.  And sometimes it’s one way, on other occasions it’s the other way.  Life is a little more complicated that way, but that how it is IMO

Like  on the curtain rods I said myself Ruth was being evasive and I had a feeling there was more to it one way or the other, put in a tight spot by the FBI if you ask me.     On her sister however, I really can not blame her for anything about that.  Also, Ruth at least was available for questioning by Garrison it seems a lot of others backed out.

Jean:  You ignored everything else in my post, and you did not even look up the testimony did you?

I told you why, I  didn’t ignore anything that I know something about. 

If you are going to ask me about Mexico : I don’t know, simple

Do you really think she did not know where her own sister lived?

Again, why would Ruth have to tell anything on her sister ?  I would not !  Wasn’t Garrison man enough to deal with that ?  

On the Oswald MInox camera, after the assassination.  I have posted about that, I guess I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.   I do see a Minox light meter in the picture that  was taken when DPD said there was no Minox lightmeter but a camera…   You do know the Russians in the 1950’s had developed their own sub-miniature camera ? That even was a lot cheaper and better. Lee had bought a Cuera-2 (Smena-2), a good camera b.t.w..  For about 1/5 of the price he could have bought a Russian sub-min to go with that.  No need for a Minox (an over-priced gadget by the 1960’s, it was a spy-camera, well… up to the early 1950's that was...).  

Do you think he had a right to an attorney?  Yes, please….

On Greg :  a true gentleman would not write like what you just wrote on Greg. That was ad hominem and generalizing and totally uncalled for

About all the rest : now, this will be a surprise to you, but I have not solved the case yet… 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Jean Ceulemans]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Whew! Bow wow!   Mad dog on the loose!

Yuck, another childish outburst.

Same old unfocused gish gallop debating tactic, throwing everything out there but the kitchen sink. For years Jim's minions thought this was Jim winning an argument!

Jim to Jean:you did not even look up the testimony did you?

Hmm,Do i see a pattern here? this is similar to his  commands to Jonathan earlier

Jim:Can you show me any investigation into Ruth and Michael done by the HSCA?

Jim:Can you show me where Ruth was even questioned by the HSCA?

Jim:Can you show me any interview by the ARRB of Ruth Paine?

Jim:Let me know when you find this stuff!

Jim:Now with what happened to the HSCA, go ahead and show me her examination. 

Jim:Let me know Jonathan when you find those HSCA and ARRB inquiries.

 

Hey back off pops! They don't have to do anything they don't want to.

Uh, let's see, 7 Jim commands! Can we admit Jim used to bossing people around here?

And then this paragraph! 6 questions!

Jim: Also, let me ask, Jean do you think Oswald was in Mexico City and at the Russian Embassy?  Do you think he had a right to an attorney?  Do you think that he felt he was a little man who could now be a big man after shooting JFK?  If so why did he never say he did so?  Why did he say he was a patsy?  And why did his brother suspect the Paines were involved?

 

This is such childish nonsense. This is what I meant earlier about trying to have an intelligent discussion with Jim.

Jim handles the slightest disagreement by accusing Jean of being an LN!!!

Jim earlier said that Max didn't go far enough in going after Ruth. But I think with the amount of evidence Max had, he did a good job.

Just imagine Jim being in the presence of Ruth Paine. He'd probably have a heart attack, and it would be the 91 year old calling the ambulance for Jim!

 

heh heh

Nice, there is indeed a pattern.  I sometimes wonder where it has it gotten them.

Chasing Ruth for 60 years, over and over again, and what's the result ?  

Yes, I can see some unresolved matters, but given the time that has passed... I hope they'll give the human part some priority now.   

This should have been tried years ago (I don't think they have ?), but I feel if one could have succeeded in getting Ruth and Marina to talk to each other in private,  it could have made a difference IMO   

 

[Tony Krome]

3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Mrs. Murrett saw "a brown or tan colored station wagon bearing Texas plates". But never mind that, it sounds to me like Lillian Murrett had a form of red-green color-blindness, protanopia, in which greens look brown or tan (https://www.healthline.com/health/eye-health/what-do-colorblind-people-see#visual-differences-in-images).

Jenner was interviewing Murrett;

Mr. JENNER - Now, this is particularly important to us.

Jenner was trying to establish the colour of a particular bag;

Mr. JENNER - What color was it?

Mrs. MURRET - Possibly it was brown.

Mr. JENNER - Brown? 

Mrs. MURRET - I think so.

Now, according to you Greg, this bag was possibly green, correct?

I believe green is what Jenner had in mind in relation to Oswald's marine bag. I find it stunning that Mrs. Murrett did not disclose that she was colour blind. Thoughts?

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Sean Coleman]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:52 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Sean, I wondered about that too, but Joe Alesi, Ruth's friend in California who is a collector and I think knows the current owner of Ruth Paine's old station wagon, helped fill in some information when I asked him about this a year or so ago.

The blue is purely an artifact of the photography process. The car in the photo is really single-tone light green but with too much blue in the color processing making the light green illusorily look light blue.

The car as it came from the factory and through 1963 and at least the first part of 1964 was two-tone dark green (Neptune Green) over light green (Seamist Green). At some point later than Feb 28, 1964 the top was repainted the same light green to match the lower part, making it a single-tone and this photo reflects that. Here is a classic cars site description of Ruth Paine's station wagon with some history: https://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/75293-lee-harvey-oswald-1955-chevy-belair-station-wagon-with-jfk-assassination-ties.html#google_vignette.

Confirmation that Ruth Paine's station wagon was still two-tone dark green and light green on Feb 28, 1964: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1140#relPageId=715.

Agreed.

 

Both these pics show a darker roof

 

This Bel Air shows a green interior. 
 

 

A blue interior. Note the same shade of green on the seats and door cards, a good reference point for both pics.

 

Ruth’s Bel Air.

The lower dashboard and door stays  are normally a good indication of original color as both are unaffected by the Sun’s UV.

Old cars rule.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Sean Coleman

[Joe Bauer]

My goodness. Cars back then.

No seat belts.

Everything steel. Bumpers, dash boards.

The most simple and easy to use AM/FM radios.

A dash clock you could correct by just a turn of the dial.

No center console. Tons of open leg room.

Only thanks to Ralph Nader did we finally mandate seat belts which saved 20,000 lives a year and 100,00 more from being brutally thrown about and smashed up.

Simpler, less stressful times.

No portable phones. People weren't on these constantly and instead talked to real people around them.

No weird and often dumbing down TV reality shows.

Seriously I would go back to the 50's and 60's time in America versus present times if I had a choice.

[Tony Krome]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

My goodness. Cars back then.

No seat belts.

I drive a 1950s truck, no seat belts. Pull up next to cops and wave haha

[Joe Bauer]

49 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

I drive a 1950s truck, no seat belts. Pull up next to cops and wave haha

Our stepfather drove a 1957 Chevy Bel Air 4 door. Metallic copper colored with a continental kit. Huge 8 cylinder engine. Everything solid steel. Big steel front and rear bumpers.

The car seemed to weigh 10 tons! 

And yet, even with it's massive over-all weight, with it's super-charged engine, when you pressed on the gas the entire car would seemingly lift up and shoot off like a rocket! Hitting over 100 MPH in what seemed like mere seconds.

When cars like those super heavy and powerful all steel body 1950's ones hit each other head-on at 70 MPH, even the years later used "Jaws Of Life" devise couldn't pry them apart.

Speaking of Ruth Paine actually giving Lee Oswald driving lessons, did she do this?

Did I once read erroneously or correctly that according to Ruth, Lee didn't do too well? That he loved hitting curbs and bushes while over or under turning the wheel?

That even in open parking lot areas she clung on for dear life as Lee drove like he was on one of those "bumper cars" amusement park rides?

"Okay Lee, give it a little gas, no-no not that much! HIT THE BRAKES ( both her and Lee violently thrown forward ) ... but not THAT hard!  Okay...now, slowly get going again ... but go easy this time...now turn the wheel left ... no, no, don't over-turn...watch out for that bush! OMG you just missed hitting that parked car! 

Stop the car...STOP THE CAR!  Just, just get out...I'm taking over."

No wonder she would never knowingly let Lee take her car out on his own.

There were three things Ruth was ferociously possessive and protective of in her home regards Lee Oswald ever touching them without her permission...her typewriter, her car and her record player.

Ruth testified under oath she was deeply offended and upset when she discovered Lee had used her typewriter without her permission.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Tony Krome]

6 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

"Okay Lee, give it a little gas, no-no not that much! HIT THE BRAKES ( both her and Lee violently thrown forward ) ... but not THAT hard!  Okay...now, slowly get going again ... but go easy this time...now turn the wheel left ... no, no, don't over-turn...watch out for that bush! OMG you just missed hitting that parked car! 

Stop the car...STOP THE CAR!  Just, just get out...I'm taking over."

Hilarious!

Lee actually drove the Murrett Dodge home after lessons in the park in NO. Those old tanks were a handful too. I believe he took the car, that Paine bought, to the Furniture Mart as well. I doubt Marina would have risked the babes with a psychotic driver.

 

[Jean Ceulemans]

5 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

They messed up (on purpose or otherwise). 

Perhaps not everybody is aware of this,  but light works with RGB (photo adjustment includes RGB tuning), paint however uses a CMY color wheel (that's why your printer uses CMY colors).    

Normally you will not have any problems.  Now, when you have someone editing a picture for a bookcover print without having seen the original (car in this case), these things can happen... 

It could also be because marketing said green is better for sales... who knows...