Brian Baccus on Ruth Paine

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

GP replies to Doudna:

GD's comments on clothing of Oswald at the barber shop. Shasteen testified that they looked like army coveralls with the sleeves cut off and were way too big.  I believe they were army issue belonging to Mike Paine who was a few inches taller than Lee. I think he probably kept them in the garage to wear while tinkering to protect his clothing and Lee probably had the same thought in wearing them to then barbershop - save getting covered in hair.  The yellow house shoes I think were probably purchased in "LIttle Mexico" in Dallas or Houston. Dallas Little Mexico was a short walk from the TSBD and did have several shoe stores. What happened to them, I have no idea. 
 

Let me add, this is what the great Malcolm Blunt thinks also. That Oswald bought these in Little Mexico.  They were made to disappear after to mar Shasteen.

Along with those seven little file cabinets.  Then there is the desk secretary.  Micael Paine's conversation over the ironing board with witch DPD officer or Deputy Sheriff about the files being Oswald's, implicating him?

[James DiEugenio]

I am glad Max put those file cabinets in his film.

He did not put in the desk secretary issue since Chris Newton was having a very hard time of it since moving to California. 

I think you are referring to Luby's Restaurant with Mike Paine?  That was really something.

[Greg Doudna]

Ruth Paine said Oswald never went to a barbershop when he was at her home in Irving and she never lent him her car to drive

"Mrs. Ruth Paine ... advised that she does not recall Lee Harvey Oswald going for a haircut on a weekend during October or November, 1963, and that she does not recall the location of any barbershop where Oswald ever obtained a haircut. Mrs. Paine has previously advised, as reflected on pages 635 and 636 of the report of Special Agent Robert P. Gemberling, dated December 23, 1963, that she did not know of any boy about 14 years of age with whom Oswald was ever associated in the neighborhood and that she had never allowed Oswald to take her car anywhere by himself." (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=832)

Shasteen describes his customer he claimed was "Oswald". Was this Lee Harvey Oswald?

Did Oswald get frequent, biweekly haircuts?

"he got a haircut about every 2 weeks, and I don't think he ever went over 2 weeks"

Oswald's physical description was "needs haircut" (FBI); "needs a haircut" (Fritz, DPD); "He [Oswald] never wanted to get a haircut. We would tease him about it because hair would be growing down his neck" (Roy Lewis, coworker with Oswald at TSBD); "some of the other male employees tease him and tell him he ought to go get a haircut" (Danny Arce, coworker with Oswald at TSBD). 

Did Oswald get 5-7 biweekly haircuts in five weeks between Oct 4 and Nov 8, 1963?

"we cut his hair five or possibly six times [biweekly in five weeks between Oct 4 and Nov 8 if Oswald]"

"2 or 3 or 4 months that we had been seeing him [in five weeks between Oct 4 and Nov 8 if Oswald]"

"he could have possibly gotten seven haircuts but I think about six haircuts is what he got. It could have possibly been five. I know personally three times I cut his hair and I know that the front guy cut his hair one time, Mr. Glover, and Mr. Law cut his hair one time, the last time the customer was in the shop [Nov 8]--he might have cut it one other time and if he did that would've made six."

"it seemed to me like there was a dead spot in there. Some time maybe a month or 6 weeks that we might not have saw him, between the first time I cut his hair, but the last three haircuts--it seemed to me like he was pretty regular"

"I personally know of five times he was in there [biweekly in five weeks between Oct 4 and Nov 8 if Oswald]"

Was Oswald almost black-headed?

"Oh, he was dark headed--I wouldn't say he was real black, you know, what I mean, he wasn't jet black, but most people would call him black-headed.

Oswald was not dark-haired nor did he look black-headed. 

Was Oswald meticulous about his hair?

"We laughed about his saying, 'Take a 32nd', or he would say, 'Take a 16th off of the top', or something."

No one ever commented on Oswald being meticulous about his hair. As noted above, Oswald was teased by his coworkers for being ungroomed with hair growing on the back of his neck.

Did Oswald have a distinctive maintained hairstyle in which his hair was cut so short it would not lay down flat but was worn oiled and slicked back so that it almost stood up?

"It was almost short enough to stand up but it was too long to stand up ... rough shod ... many times I thought, 'Boy, you sure ought to let this grow out up here where it will lay down and comb nice ..."

This is not Oswald's hair at all. Oswald did not slick his hair back. Nor did Oswald's hair stand partway up. Oswald's haircut in all photos is a basic no-frills simple hair with a part combed down flat each way, not oiled and slicked back short enough that it had a half standing up fashion "look".

Did Oswald have hairy black hair on his arms?

"he had pretty hairy arms. I remember that about him, you know,. he had black hair on his arms."

Oswald was never described as having hairy arms of black hair.

Did Oswald wear huge oversized coveralls?

"he had on some kind of coveralls, nearly every time he came in ... they buttoned down the front ... those old coveralls ... they were too big for him"

Oswald had no coveralls in his clothing, nor are any known of Michael Paine, nor was Oswald ever seen wearing coveralls.

Did Oswald have yellow shoes?

"One morning early--it was a Saturday--he came in wearing old men's shoes. They were yellow w/flexible side sections--looked very comfortable." (HSCA)

No such shoes in Oswald's belongings, no such shoes ever seen worn by Oswald.

Did Oswald make lots of trips across the border into Mexico?

"I admired them [yellow shoes] + told him so + he said 'I'll be glad to get a pair for you. I got these in Mexico--only paid $1.60. I make lots of trips down there.'" (HSCA)

Oswald did not make lots of trips over the border into Mexico.

Did Oswald have a 14-year old son or accompany someone else's 14-year old boy?

"Another time he came in with what appeared to be a 14 year old boy. During the boy's cutting, he (the boy) was talking politics and finally said this country wouldn't be right until the ni**ers get the same rights as the rest of the people. I asked him if that didn't sound like a Communist type gov't would work better + he said 'Yes!' That's when Oswald told him to 'Shut up!'. Neither one of them said another word. The boy never came back. It was his first + last time." (HSCA)

Oswald never known to be in company of any 14-year old kid. 

Did Oswald drive Ruth Paine's car to go on trips a few blocks away to the barbershop?

"He drove Ruth Paine's car. She had a 1955 Chev, a 4 door sedan, I think. It was either lt blue or lt green--that part was faded quite a bit, but it did have a white top. He used to park it right over there..." (HSCA)

This was not Ruth Paine's car. Ruth Paine had a 1955 Chevy Belair station wagon that was two-tone green, no white top. It was dark green over light green. Ruth Paine never lent Oswald any car to drive a few blocks walking distance to a barbershop biweekly.

Did Oswald get his hair cut in Irving at all?

Oswald got his haircuts near his rooming house in Oak Cliff, not on Friday evenings in Irving when he arrived in Buell Frazier's car to visit Marina and his child and baby at Ruth Paine's house. The Oak Cliff barber who cut Oswald's hair is identified, at 2005 North Beckley: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673#relPageId=31.

What did Warren Commission staff counsel think of Shasteen's story?

Warren Commission staff counsel Jenner who interviewed Shasteen wrote in a memo of Shasteen's claim to have been the barber of Oswald: "This man obviously is imagining things. His story was made completely out of old cloth." (https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/sightings-of-lho-nov.-1963-clifford-m.-shasteen/691160?item=691161) 

An appeal to reason

Jim D., whoever that customer was, it wasn't Oswald and it wasn't Ruth Paine's car. For you to embrace this as some credible allegation against Ruth Paine for answering truthfully when asked about this is not helpful.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Tom Gram]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Was Oswald meticulous about his hair?

"We laughed about his saying, 'Take a 32nd', or he would say, 'Take a 16th off of the top', or something."

No one ever commented on Oswald being meticulous about his hair. As noted above, Oswald was teased by his coworkers for being ungroomed with hair growing on the back of his neck.

Did Oswald have a distinctive maintained hairstyle in which his hair was cut so short it would not lay down flat but was worn oiled and slicked back so that it almost stood up?

"It was almost short enough to stand up but it was too long to stand up ... rough shod ... many times I thought, 'Boy, you sure ought to let this grow out up here where it will lay down and comb nice ..."

This is not Oswald's hair at all. Oswald did not slick his hair back. Nor did Oswald's hair stand partway up. Oswald's haircut in all photos is a basic no-frills simple hair with a part combed down flat each way, not oiled and slicked back short enough that it had a half standing up fashion "look".

Did Oswald have hairy black hair on his arms?

"he had pretty hairy arms. I remember that about him, you know,. he had black hair on his arms."

Oswald was never described as having hairy arms of black hair.

The second one fits the TSBD descriptions of Oswald needing a haircut, and is an accurate description of Oswald’s hair. I’m not sure where you’re getting “worn oiled and slicked back” from that quote. Maybe that’s in the …’s and I forgot? 

The first two in general are a spot-on description of a young guy with thinning hair. It kinda looks like you are trying to use Shasteen’s descriptions of self-consciousness to turn Oswald into the Fonz. 

Also Greg, you know this: Greg Parker proved that Oswald did have hairy arms with black hair from an autopsy photo. 

Parker has a very strong case on this. The descriptions of the boy are a dead-ringer for Hootkins, there are several other very good reasons to believe it was Oswald, and Parker has plausible explanations for all the evidence you cite as contrary. 

There are similarities here I’m sure you can see with your case for Oswald at the Irving Sport Shop.

We don’t need to recreate the ROKC debate thread, but Parker’s arguments should at least be portrayed accurately so people can make up their own minds. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Sandy Larsen]

18 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Greg Parker is a little like that Jack Nicholson figure.

 

So Greg Parker isn't crazy after all??  heh heh

Thank you Greg Doudna for the well-written tribute to Greg Parker and the good fight he's put up over the decades.

 

[Adam Johnson]

I have several points I'd like to make after reading this thread:

Did anyone notice this off of one of the article links Jim D posted on page 1 of the thread:

From: Jerry Shinley
Subject: New Orleans and the 1959 World Youth Festival in Vienna
Date: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:05 PM

In 1959, a New Orleans man, Richard C. Bell, in conjunction
with a Chicago group, organized a group of students to attend
the 1959 World Youth Conference in Vienna. His plans attracted
opposition from the local American Legion, especially Kent Courtney,
Festus Brown and James Pfister. The Legion organized a Free
Enterprise Seminar "to alert local college students to the dangers
involved in attending the communist-sponsored World Youth Festival
in Vienna." Speakers at the seminar include Guy Banister, Medford
Evans and Douglas Caddy. Bell and his group did make it to Vienna.

Is this, our Douglas Caddy?? Dear Mr. Caddy is this you? Did you know or meet Guy Bannister?

Next point: In the late 1950's and early 1960's cold war era, why would any middle class American husband and wife spend time learning to speak Russian? 

i can only comprehend 3 valid reasons...you had relatives that only spoke Russian and wanted to communicate better with them, you planned on holidaying/travelling thru Russia and wanted to learn the language to assist you on your travels or thirdly for employment opportunities. 

Which applies from the list above to Ruth and Michael Paine....

[As a side note, do any of our American based readers have friends or family members who have recently taken on learning to speak the Arabic language in the past year, you know so they can befriend the Palestinian ex-pats currently living in America and be ready to assist displaced Palestinian families with former Hamas military leaders that might be relocating to the Dallas area soon]. 

I've had my hair cut short by clippers for the past 20 years (#3 back and sides #6 on top) never, have i ever had my hair cut 4,5,6 or 7 times in 8 weeks. Once every 10 to 12 weeks and my hair grows fast I've been told. 

Who knows anyone with thinning hair that has it cut every two or three weeks???

Did/Does Ruth Paine speak Spanish??? If so, does anyone know when she learnt the language? Was it just prior to her trips to help save the world in South America?

Did anybody in 64 or later ever consider showing the barber's a damn photograph of Hootkins from his high school yearbook...hello McFly.....

A.J

[Jean Ceulemans]

Douglas has confirmed some time ago he had met Banister in those days.

Quote from the Unacknowledged topic page 42 : "I first met Banister in 1955 when I was in high school in New Orleans. In 1959 he and I spoke at an American Legion rally. I wish that I was aware of his full background then. I would have asked him many questions."

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Jean Ceulemans]

1 hour ago, Adam Johnson said:

Next point: In the late 1950's and early 1960's cold war era, why would any middle class American husband and wife spend time learning to speak Russian? 

 

A little note on this, I remember reading somewhere that Khrushchev visiting the USA in 1959 caused a little of a  hype (or something).  Students studying Russian could visit Russia for some time, things like that.

I'm no expert on this, but I think it is something to take into account.  Ofcourse by 1963 a lot had changed.

Perhaps others here could tell us more about Khrushchev's vist ?

[Sandy Larsen]

I took high school Russian classes (because we had an (American) teacher who could speak it). I'm not sure now why I took it. Maybe because it was an offbeat thing to do. Though I wouldn't have done so later, when I was an adult.

Regarding haircut frequency, I knew a lot a lot of adults who got their hair cut every other week. They all had short hair. Those of us with longer hair hated haircut time because our hair would have a "freshly cut" look that no young person wanted back then.

 

[Adam Johnson]

I had a semester of German in high school, i didnt start going to after hour classes to learn more, i didn't go spend every monday evening at the German club in town or go to private functions held by German community members hoping to befriend them and become part of their click. The Paine's had an ulterior motivation. 

Once again,  they weren't going to Russia for a holiday,  they didn't have close Russian speakering relatives...oh and they were supposed to be separated but no no, we still go to our Russian emigre party nights together...mmm love those.

As my former girlfriends would often say "f%#@&% me".

A.J

[Sandy Larsen]

47 minutes ago, Adam Johnson said:

I had a semester of German in high school, i didnt start going to after hour classes to learn more, i didn't go spend every monday evening at the German club in town or go to private functions held by German community members hoping to befriend them and become part of their click. The Paine's had an ulterior motivation. 

Once again,  they weren't going to Russia for a holiday,  they didn't have close Russian speakering relatives...oh and they were supposed to be separated but no no, we still go to our Russian emigre party nights together...mmm love those.

 

I agree.

 

[Greg Doudna]

3 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

I've had my hair cut short by clippers for the past 20 years (#3 back and sides #6 on top) never, have i ever had my hair cut 4,5,6 or 7 times in 8 weeks. Once every 10 to 12 weeks and my hair grows fast I've been told. 

Who knows anyone with thinning hair that has it cut every two or three weeks???

That’s exactly the point Adam, that customer of Shasteen’s barbershop was having his hair cut every two weeks—way more often than a frugal Oswald would and most other men.

It is one of the specific and compelling indicators that Shasteen’s and fellow barber Glover’s claim that the guy they thought from seeing Oswald on TV after the assassination must be the guy who had been in their shop, was mistaken, somebody other than Oswald.

How many men get a haircut that often? The man came in a jumpsuit on Friday nights. That’s what he wore on his job. Maybe he was some city roadwork worker, could be anything that involved a work jumpsuit, coming in after work on his way home without changing clothes, to get a biweekly trim. 

You and I and probably 98% of men sure don’t go to the barber every two weeks. Varies to taste but @6-10 weeks maybe for most working men, Oswald maybe less than that. 

Oswald’s hair was thinning as you note and his hair completely non-fashion conscious, and Oswald was poor and frugal. His own coworkers noted his scruffy back of the neck indicating infrequent, not frequent, haircuts.

It is a complete certainty Shasteen’s customer did not have an unshaven or scruffy back of the neck at any time, if he was in Shasteen’s shop getting an haircut every @2 weeks, because barbers ALWAYS clean up or shave the back of the neck, taper or block cut it, but do not leave hair growing on the back of the neck untrimmed and scruffy like Oswald looked according to his coworkers. 

Why would that Shasteen customer be in to get trimmed that often, such an uncommon frequency?

The answer is because that man liked his hair a certain way—exactly just short enough to almost stand up, but not long enough for the hair to start laying flat naturally. Hair length longer than a buzz cut, but shorter than hair that falls flat when combed. It was a certain look that particular man wanted, and that look required frequent trimming— the “take off 1/16 or 1/32” instruction that Shasteen said the barbers found so humorous when that man was gone. 

The man didn’t want much taken off at all. As Shasteen explained, the man was finicky, wanted it EXACTLY a length where it neither stood straight up or laid flat but when oiled was exactly in between, an intentional “ragged” look on top (NOT hair grown out scruffy and fuzzy on the back of his neck like Oswald had). 

It was solely that idiosyncratic look which was that man’s reason for coming in that frequently, @2 weeks. No other reason to be in that frequently otherwise.

And that shows that was not Oswald, because that doesn’t fit Oswald. And unless that was Oswald, neither the car or the 14-year old kid are of any interest or have anything to do with Oswald or Ruth Paine or Hootkins in another city. 

If that coveralls-wearing man particular about his hair style was some man other than Oswald, the car he drove becomes just some similar looking car to Ruth Paine’s but not Ruth’s (and in fact Shasteen’s description of coveralls man’s car does not agree exactly with Ruth’ car), and the 14-year old becomes trivially the man’s son living somewhere in Irving and with his Dad that once or twice in the barbershop, not Hootkins far away in the different city of Dallas.

To say from Shasteen’s description of a broad-faced or -shouldered strong husky kid with blond hair who was intelligent, who Shasteen said told him he was 14 years old, is grounds for a standalone positive identification with 15-year old slightly heavyset redhead intelligent Hootkins in another city 20-25 miles away, is not warranted, to put it mildly.

I do not understand why this has received traction. Has DiEugenio really thought this through? The best I can make of explaining this is it is a combination of Greg P’s otherwise credibility on other work combined with his saying in this case what Jim D is predisposed to like to hear—anything which might make Ruth Paine into a sinister person lying in her testimony, in this case shockingly lying to cover up alleged secret barbershop trips out in the open of Oswald. 

Tom Gram objects to my comparing Oswald against Shasteen’s descriptions, instead of Greg P’s modifications of Shasteen’s descriptions which partly attempt to harmonize some of the differences. 

For example, on the matter of at least five haircuts personally known to Shasteen and maybe as many as six or seven (WC testimony) or as many as eight (earlier to FBI), that cannot be fit in Oswald’s five weeks of weekends in Irving Oct 4 to Nov 8 at the rate of one haircut @2 weeks. 

You can look up on the ROKC site and Greg P has an explanation for that. It happens that Shasteen only personally himself gave 3 of this 5-7 haircuts to the coveralls man finicky about his hair length. So Greg P says those 3 of Shasteen personally were the only real Oswald appearances in that shop, spaced weekends 1, 3, and 5 out of five weekends, get it? That’s how he fits the coveralls man’s haircuts to Oswald. 

But what about the other at least two haircuts Shasteen says the man received from his other barbers than him in his shop, that he personally saw? Greg P waves his hand and says Shasteen was mistaken in his identifications on those! They weren’t Oswald, says Greg P.! (no matter what Shasteen thought and said)

Well, Greg P was actually right on that, those other haircuts that Shasteen saw of the same coveralls wearing man he thought was Oswald, really were not Oswald. But neither were the three times of the same man when Shasteen did the haircuts himself. 

Not only Shasteen but his other barber, Glover, who cut that man’s hair at least once, Glover, just like Shasteen, said that it was the same man. Greg P again waves his hand and says Glover was mistaken about that too, Glover too mistakenly identified some other man as Oswald who wasn’t really Oswald.

In other words Greg P has no problem with the idea that Glover in full and Shasteen in part could mistakenly think a customer in the shop had been Oswald based on seeing Oswald on TV. No problem there for Greg P. But he insists that 3 out of 5 Shasteen identifications of the same man cannot have also been mistaken, but those must be truly Oswald. But it’s just arbitrary, driven by the problem of how to fit 5-7 biweekly haircuts of that man into five weeks of Oswald weekends. So Greg P arbitrarily decides to chop off the remaining 2-4 as mistaken Oswald identifications of the barbers in that shop, problem solved (?).

And on that foundation of sand as premise (that 3 but no more than 3 of the 5 witnessings of Shasteen of what both Shasteen and Glover recognized as the same man, really were Oswald), then one has to find a 14 year old and a car this alleged real Oswald (of the 3 but not more haircuts) drove in his jumpsuit to the barbershop, and voila!—15-yr old Hootkins of Dallas for the kid and Ruth Paine’s car for the car, and Ruth is just lying, lying, in denying it! (the whole point of this)

Cannot people see this is bonkers, even if a researcher with some credibility otherwise says it is so? 

Jim D, if you were on a jury, would you consider Shasteen’s testimony with all of its major discrepancies from Oswald to be sufficient basis for you to vote/judge Ruth guilty of perjury in saying she never saw Oswald change into a jumpsuit and she never lent Oswald her car to drive to a barbershop?

Has your longstanding animus against Ruth, for which not one instance of perjury, misstatement above nitpick level/rare honest mistake, in her voluminous testimony, or any other criminal conduct has ever been proven, and the fact that Greg P said it, caused you to buy into something this weak? 

What say you, Jim D? Not what Greg P says, but you?

Do you believe Oswald really was there in a jumpsuit for 3 haircuts but not more than 3 of what Shasteen said was his same barbershop customer in his shop @2 weeks 5-7 times? 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[James DiEugenio]

Parker replies again:

Ruth Paine said Oswald never went to a barbershop when he was at her home in Irving and she never lent him her car to drive

Ruth never denied he went to a barbershop in Irving. She advised that "she does not recall Lee Harvey Oswald going for a haircut on a weekend during October or November, 1963, and that she does not recall the location of any barbershop where Oswald ever obtained a haircut."

The closest she came to saying she never lent him her car was when she said in testimony, "He was not a person I would have hired for a job of any sort, no more than I would have let him borrow my car." Again, you have to parse statements carefully because they on the important questions, her answers are never straightforward. In this case, the second part of her answer qualifies the first part. A person may as well say, "I am not the type of person to eat ice-cream, [at least not] any more than I would eat chicken. "

 

Did Oswald get frequent, biweekly haircuts?

 

"he got a haircut about every 2 weeks, and I don't think he ever went over 2 weeks"

 

Oswald's physical description was "needs haircut" (FBI); "needs a haircut" (Fritz, DPD); "He [Oswald] never wanted to get a haircut. We would tease him about it because hair would be growing down his neck" (Roy Lewis, coworker with Oswald at TSBD); "some of the other male employees tease him and tell him he ought to go get a haircut" (Danny Arce, coworker with Oswald at TSBD).

 

That he always looked like he needed a haircut is consitent with what Shasteen said:

Mr. SHASTEEN. The fact is, he never did want his hair cut--he always wanted it to look like it was about a week old when he cut it

Did Oswald get 5-7 biweekly haircuts in five weeks between Oct 4 and Nov 8, 1963?

 

NO! As with all honest witnesses, Shasteen had a fallible memory, but was honest about when his recollection was uncertain. He had THREE CUTS there and THREE only.

Mr. SHASTEEN. You know, that's--like I say, that's a saying--to point back, and you know, just to say that that is the first time this guy has come in here I just can't pinpoint the first time. In other words, it has been hard and I have tried to think, especially after I got that call yesterday evening to come over here. I tried to run that back through my mind and I wouldn't say when was the first time he was in there and of course we have talked about it--me and the barbers, and it seemed to me like there was a dead spot in there. Some time maybe a month or 6 weeks that we might not have saw him, be the first time I cut his hair, but the last three haircuts--it seemed to me like he was pretty regular.

Mr. JENNER. What?

Mr. SHASTEEN. He was pretty regular--at the last three.

Mr. JENNER. So, if you had a dead spot, allowing for--let's say getting a hair-cut somewhere else occasionally, or not coming in precisely at the end of every 2-week period and having in mind that your present recollection is at least five or six occasions, that would run it back into the summertime?

Mr. SHASTEEN. Yes; it was. In other words, 2 or 8 or 4 months that we had been seeing him, but I don't know just exactly to the date or nothing.

Shasteen was simply trying to recall Oswald from prior to those three regular cuts and has a vague memory of someone from months prior who may have resembled the generic figure of Lee Oswald. 

His cuts were on or about

Oct 11 or 12

Oct  25 or 26
Nov 8 or 9
 

Hootkins was with him on two of those visits and Hootkins was solo on or about Nov 20 - a Wednesday - so probably after school or he took a day off.

 

Was Oswald almost black-headed?

 

"Oh, he was dark headed--I wouldn't say he was real black, you know, what I mean, he wasn't jet black, but most people would call him black-headed.

 

Oswald was not dark-haired nor did he look black-headed.

 

Yet both Brennan in Dealey Plaza and a witness at the Tippit scene both described the suspect as having black hair - and by it's own admission, the WC concluded that that "this suspect was Lee Harvey Oswald."

As noted by Shasteen in so many words, hair color is in the eye of the beholder and I'll add also in the biases of the reader. "Black but not real black" sounds pretty much like brown to me...

 

Was Oswald meticulous about his hair?

 

"We laughed about his saying, 'Take a 32nd', or he would say, 'Take a 16th off of the top', or something."

 

No one ever commented on Oswald being meticulous about his hair. As noted above, Oswald was teased by his coworkers for being ungroomed with hair growing on the back of his neck.

That's not being meticulous. It is saying don't take too much off. See above - Shasteen said he always wanted his hair to look like his cut was a week old. 

 

Did Oswald have a distinctive maintained hairstyle in which his hair was cut so short it would not lay down flat but was worn oiled and slicked back so that it almost stood up?

 

"It was almost short enough to stand up but it was too long to stand up ... rough shod ... many times I thought, 'Boy, you sure ought to let this grow out up here where it will lay down and comb nice ..."

 

This is not Oswald's hair at all. Oswald did not slick his hair back. Nor did Oswald's hair stand partway up. Oswald's haircut in all photos is a basic no-frills simple hair with a part combed down flat each way, not oiled and slicked back short enough that it had a half standing up fashion "look".

 

From Shasteen's testimony.
You see, hair is a funny thing--a guy can be dark headed and if he puts oil on it, he looks real black and if he washes the oil out it's got a smutty look and he never did wear much oil because about the only time he ever come in the shop, never had his hair combed and he never had any oil on it or nothing and naturally after we cut his hair and put a little oil on it, it made it look darker.

Oswald's hair, to me mind, was too fine and thinning to stand up without oil or gel.

Did Oswald have hairy black hair on his arms?

 

"he had pretty hairy arms. I remember that about him, you know,. he had black hair on his arms."

 

Oswald was never described as having hairy arms of black hair.

 

He most certainly did have black hair on his arms.

 

oswaldhairyarm.png

 

Did Oswald wear huge oversized coveralls?

 

"he had on some kind of coveralls, nearly every time he came in ... they buttoned down the front ... those old coveralls ... they were too big for him"

 

Oswald had no coveralls in his clothing, nor are any known of Michael Paine, nor was Oswald ever seen wearing coveralls.

 

As previously stated, he described them elsewhere in testimony as being army issue. 

Army issue + too big for Oswald + staying in Paine house = the coveralls belonged to Mike. 

 

Did Oswald have yellow shoes?

 

"One morning early--it was a Saturday--he came in wearing old men's shoes. They were yellow w/flexible side sections--looked very comfortable." (HSCA)

 

No such shoes in Oswald's belongings, no such shoes ever seen worn by Oswald.

 

Indeed, that is a genuine mystery. What happened to those very very cheap shoes? Hmmm. If I owned a pair of flimsy dollar house shoes bought in a flea market, I shouldn't be surprised if they only last a month.

 

Did Oswald make lots of trips across the border into Mexico?

 

"I admired them [yellow shoes] + told him so + he said 'I'll be glad to get a pair for you. I got these in Mexico--only paid $1.60. I make lots of trips down there.'" (HSCA)

 

Oswald did not make lots of trips over the border into Mexico.

 

That is correct. He never.  I believe this was another example of fallible memory. To the WC he said Oswald made trips to "Old Mexico". This had me going down rabbit holes for a while until I discovered that "Little Mexico" was close to the TSBD and that Houston also had a "Little Mexico". As will be shown in future work, Oswald made two trips to Houston looking for work. The "Little Mexico" in Dallas did have a number of show retailers. Probably the same in Houston. This is where he also no doubt picked up other bits and pieces allegedly obtained in Mexico. As a sidebar, "Little Mexico" is where Molina's chapter of the GI Forum used to meet.

Did Oswald have a 14-year old son or accompany someone else's 14-year old boy?

 

"Another time he came in with what appeared to be a 14 year old boy. During the boy's cutting, he (the boy) was talking politics and finally said this country wouldn't be right until the ni**ers get the same rights as the rest of the people. I asked him if that didn't sound like a Communist type gov't would work better + he said 'Yes!' That's when Oswald told him to 'Shut up!'. Neither one of them said another word. The boy never came back. It was his first + last time." (HSCA)

 

Oswald never known to be in company of any 14-year old kid.

Why is GD relying on what was said the HSCA? His earlier and more reliable statements were that the boy said nothing when with Oswald. His rant was when he went there alone a couple of days prior to the assassination. 

Also, according to Bert Glover, Shasteen had initially said the boy was 14 or 15.

Did Oswald drive Ruth Paine's car to go on trips a few blocks away to the barbershop?

 

"He drove Ruth Paine's car. She had a 1955 Chev, a 4 door sedan, I think. It was either lt blue or lt green--that part was faded quite a bit, but it did have a white top. He used to park it right over there..." (HSCA)

 

This was not Ruth Paine's car. Ruth Paine had a 1955 Chevy Belair station wagon that was two-tone green, no white top. It was dark green over light green. Ruth Paine never lent Oswald any car to drive a few blocks walking distance to a barbershop biweekly.

Again, Greg relies on HSCA interviews instead of what he testified to at the time.

Mr. SHASTEEN. He drove that there 1955, I think it's a 1955, I'm sure it's a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon. It's either blue and white or green and white it's two-toned--I know that. 

He said it was blue and white or green and white two-tone. It was indeed, two-tone.  Shasteen misremembered the light green as white. 

 

Did Oswald get his hair cut in Irving at all?

Oswald got his haircuts near his rooming house in Oak Cliff, not on Friday evenings in Irving when he arrived in Buell Frazier's car to visit Marina and his child and baby at Ruth Paine's house. The Oak Cliff barber who cut Oswald's hair is identified, at 2005 North Beckley: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673#relPageId=31.

 

GD says Shasteen was mistaken. I say this guy was mistaken. Others can make up their own minds. But Shasteen accurately described Oswald getting haircuts that made him look like he still needed one. He accurately described his hairy arms. He accurately described Bill Hootkins. Except for mistaking light green for white, he accurately described Ruth Paine's car. Additionally, Oswald was known to frequent other shops in the same location. 
 

What did Warren Commission staff counsel think of Shasteen's story?

 

Warren Commission staff counsel Jenner who interviewed Shasteen wrote in a memo of Shasteen's claim to have been the barber of Oswald: "This man obviously is imagining things. His story was made completely out of old cloth." (https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/sightings-of-lho-nov.-1963-clifford-m.-shasteen/691160?item=691161)

 

Jenner is now elevated to a fount of wisdom and truth?

An appeal to reason

 

Jim D., whoever that customer was, it wasn't Oswald and it wasn't Ruth Paine's car. For you to embrace this as some credible allegation against Ruth Paine for answering truthfully when asked about this is not helpful.

 

GD, if Hootkins was not involved, an honest answer would have been "I know of no boy around the age of 14 who associated with Lee." 

Her answer specifically only referred to 14 year olds living in Irving.  This answer very cleverly does not exclude the 15 year old Bill Hootkins who lived in Dallas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

998

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

5 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

Douglas has confirmed some time ago he had met Banister in those days.

Quote from the Unacknowledged topic page 42 : "I first met Banister in 1955 when I was in high school in New Orleans. In 1959 he and I spoke at an American Legion rally. I wish that I was aware of his full background then. I would have asked him many questions."

 

 

Being There: Eye Witness To History | San Francisco Book Review

[Joe Bauer]

Easy to see from the morgue picture that Oswald did indeed have noticeably hairy forearms.

Oswald was in the Marines for what 3 years? His hair was obviously cut and kept very short during all that time. He probably got used to the look. He wore his Marine pride ring until 11,22,1963 so we know he valued at least some Marine traditions.

However, what few photos I have seen of Oswald in Russia he seemed to wear his hair longer than he ever did before. Kind of wavy and a little unkempt?

Did they not have barbers in Minsk?  Or just bad ones?

Sylvia Odio said the man Leopoldo introduced her to as "Leon Oswald" was somewhat unkempt looking with a very slight unshaven look.

Was she ever asked about his hair? Or volunteer anything about it on her own?

Did Oswald check in for a hair cut in Clinton when he was driven up there to apply for a job at the mental hospital in nearby Jackson?

Did the barber remember anything about the cut?

If I had to write a thesis on just one aspect of the JFK/Oswald event investigation...it sure wouldn't be this Oswald hair cutting controversy.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Joe Bauer