Gary Murr Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said: So now we know how David Lifton managed to keep John Connally from sustaining any wounds from the rear during the period when the assassination of JFK was taking place on Elm Street. He (Lifton) merely invented this fantasy story about Secret Service agent John Ready leaping into the limousine and shooting Connally. And then John Connally, in all of his many post-1963 interviews, decided to never once mention this "fight" that he had with Ready. I agree, David, as this, at least to my mind, was Lifton's mind-set on the Connally wounding. Perhaps now you and potentially others can see why I was reluctant to get dragged into this charade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gary Murr said: I agree, David, as this, at least to my mind, was Lifton's mind-set on the Connally wounding. Perhaps now you and potentially others can see why I was reluctant to get dragged into this charade. I can, indeed, understand why you wouldn't want to be dragged into David Lifton's increasingly bizarre "charade" (as you put it). It would be nice, though, if Mr. Lifton's "Final Charade" book could somehow manage to get published (if the full manuscript still survives, that is). I would enjoy reading about all of the many additional fantasy theories that David L. had talked himself into believing during the last 40 years of his life. Many of those outer-fringe fantasies are revealed by David Lifton himself in this 14-part, 3-hour-long video series which he made in late 2013. But I'm guessing that during the 9 years between 2013 and the time of his death in December of 2022, Mr. Lifton very likely was able to concoct at least a few more outlandish episodes concerning the events of 11/22/63. Perhaps, say, a new baseless theory about how Officer Tippit died on Tenth Street. Lifton, after all, did not believe that Lee Oswald committed that murder either (see the very end of Part 10 of Lifton's video series). So maybe Lifton can pretend that Domingo Benavides pulled a gun out of his truck on 10th Street and shot Tippit; or—just possibly—Lifton can get Helen Markham to play the part of Tippit's killer. Because, after all, with David S. Lifton in control of the fiction that he puts down on the pages of his fantasy books, just about anything is likely to happen, and just about anybody can be a suspect in the murders that took place in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Hey, if Secret Service agent John Ready can be the person who shot Connally, why couldn't waitress Helen Markham be a cop killer? Edited February 3 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) Author SEAN FETTER is someone who had maybe THOUSANDS of conversations with David Lifton. In his book Under Cover of Night: The United States Air Force and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, makes many savage attacks on Lifton. It is as if Fetter is stabbing David Lifton's corpse over and over again with an ice pick, that is how much he hates him. SEAN FETTER also attacks Lifton on his interpretations of the evidence of the JFK assassination. In a nutshell, Fetter and Lifton were friends and associate JFK assassination researchers for many years (maybe 20) and finally Fetter got fed up with David Lifton stealing Fetter's extremely valuable research and claiming it as his own. My own views of David Lifton are that he did some extremely valuable work on the JFK assassination, especially in proving that JFK's casket was empty by the time it got to Bethesda Naval Hospital and that JFK's body had arrived at Bethesda earlier than his casket did. This does not mean I agree with all of David Lifton's theories on the evidence of the JFK assassination. David Lifton and Sean Fetter both thought that LYNDON JOHNSON orchestrated the JFK assassination - which is something I whole heartedly agree with. Sean Fetter's 1,000-page book can be bought on Amazon in two volumes, both of which contain historically important interviews and analysis that has never been released before in the JFK assassination research community. Of particular note are Fetter's interviews with Air Force personnel who were on duty on Air Force One, Air Force Two and at Andrews Air Force base on the day of the JFK assassination. 1) Under Cover of Night: The United States Air Force and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy: Fetter, Sean: 9798218283506: Amazon.com: Books 2) Under Cover of Night (Volume II of II): The United States Air Force and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy: Fetter, Sean: 9798218306403: Amazon.com: Books The two Fetter books are MUST READS on the JFK assassination - and no, I do not believe everything Fetter states in his book; but there are plenty of golden nuggets in there. Side anecdote: Robert Groden, who also extremely disliked David Lifton, likes to tell the story of the time both he and David Lifton were at Jerry Policoff's home decades ago. Robert Groden was relaying some very sensitive inside information on the JFK case and was telling Lifton and Policoff you must not tell anyone what I am telling you. The next thing you know, Groden catches David Lifton in Policoff's bathroom where he is furiously trying to write everything Groden just swore them to silence on on TOILET PAPER! Edited February 3 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 BTW / FWIW.... Concerning the question of whether or not David Lifton's long-awaited book "Final Charade" will ever be published: I noticed the following comment attached to one of the videos on the "David Lifton On JFK" YouTube channel. The person who replied (@davidliftononjfk2724) apparently was doing so on behalf of Lifton and his YouTube channel. That person was certainly logged-in to Lifton's YouTube channel at any rate. So, maybe Final Charade will end up seeing the light of day after all. I captured this image today (February 3rd, 2024): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Let me get this straight: There was a fight in the car after Ready jumped in, and this is how Connally got shot from the front? I mean no wonder people abandoned him en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Sharpe Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 10 minutes ago, David Von Pein said: BTW / FWIW.... Concerning the question of whether or not David Lifton's long-awaited book "Final Charade" will ever be published: I noticed the following comment attached to one of the videos on the "David Lifton On JFK" YouTube channel. The person who replied (@davidliftononjfk2724) apparently was doing so on behalf of Lifton and his YouTube channel. That person was certainly logged-in to Lifton's YouTube channel at any rate. So, maybe Final Charade will end up seeing the light of day after all. I captured this image today (February 3rd, 2024): Well spotted. Thanks. Although I'll believe it when I see it. Judging by those videos, he appears to have slipped into full-on mania as he aged (and the vids are over 10 years old). This would apply to both his behavior and his content, but I would still love to hear his thoughts on Oswald. I'm sure there's a lot about Oswald we still don't know. But I'm afraid we're approaching a time horizon where there will be nothing new to find out. This event will only be "living history" for maybe another decade. I feel in my gut that LHO was being "handled," and that he has been grossly wronged in the verdict of history. Future release of unredacted files may shed some light, but it would seem to me than any documentation highly compromising would not even exist as "unreleased" or "redacted." That all went into James Angleton's fireplace a long time ago, if indeed anything was ever put on paper at all. Jefferson Morley has done good work over the past decade digging into CIA-Oswald connections (and obviously, John Newman before him). His Substack and podcast (jfkfacts) are illuminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Sharp Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 minutes ago, Aaron Sharpe said: Well spotted. Thanks. Although I'll believe it when I see it. Judging by those videos, he appears to have slipped into full-on mania as he aged (and the vids are over 10 years old). This would apply to both his behavior and his content, but I would still love to hear his thoughts on Oswald. I'm sure there's a lot about Oswald we still don't know. But I'm afraid we're approaching a time horizon where there will be nothing new to find out. This event will only be "living history" for maybe another decade. I feel in my gut that LHO was being "handled," and that he has been grossly wronged in the verdict of history. Future release of unredacted files may shed some light, but it would seem to me than any documentation highly compromising would not even exist as "unreleased" or "redacted." That all went into James Angleton's fireplace a long time ago, if indeed anything was ever put on paper at all. Jefferson Morley has done good work over the past decade digging into CIA-Oswald connections (and obviously, John Newman before him). His Substack and podcast (jfkfacts) are illuminating. It's my understanding that Lifton had uncovered extensive additional detail on Oswald. A recent draft of Final Charade is in the hands of one of his research confidants who hopes to fulfill David's 'final wishes' this year barring legal complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: Let me get this straight: There was a fight in the car after Ready jumped in, and this is how Connally got shot from the front? That's about the size of it (according to Mr. Lifton). I'm not really sure, though, what difference it makes whether Connally was shot from the "front" or the "rear" in Lifton's fantasy version of that shooting. The "front vs. rear" trajectory thing seems kind of moot and totally unimportant via a scenario which is supposedly taking place only after the car has already left Dealey Plaza. But the "Ready Shot Connally" fairy tale was obviously invented by Lifton sometime after he had decided he had to find a way to keep both limo victims from being hit by shots fired from the TSBD. And he had to do that because he had already decided that Oswald was merely firing "blanks" at JFK's car from the Depository. (See Part 10 of Lifton's video series [below] to enjoy the full thrust of Mr. Lifton's "Oswald Fired Blanks" make-believe fantasy.) Edited February 3 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Odisio Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, Aaron Sharpe said: If the state would falsify the photographic and radiographic record of the autopsy (and they did), why wouldn't they do the same to a film of the assassination itself? Yes, it's an extraordinary claim. So it will require extraordinary evidence. And it seems a bit crazy. But David Lifton's claims seemed crazy in 1981. History has borne him out. No, alteration of Zapruder is not an extraordinary claim. It's an entirely logical outcome of what we know. In fact the killers had no choice but to try alteration. In planning the murder, they would have created a hierarchy of objectives. The choice they made in meeting each objective would then affect the choices for the next one and soon on down the line. The top objective, the one with the highest priority for the project, would have been that the murder must succeed. That Kennedy must not escape the ambush. That means multiple shooters from different directions to ensure, as much as possible, that Kennedy does not survive. Dealey Plaza was a perfect location for that setup. But as part of the plan, they were going with a very different story--of Oswald as the lone assassin with 3 shots from behind. They planned to kill him quickly before he could talk to a lawyer, so they would have relatively free rein to concoct their story. They controlled the WC "investigation" such that it consisted of a bunch of lawyers cherry picking evidence to frame Oswald. They controlled the information disseminated by the media. They intimated and sometimes killed people who threatened their story. But the Zapruder film was a problem. Zapruder had already been on TV explaining what he had shot with his camera. Dan Rather saw the film that weekend. There was already a bidding war for the rights to the film, mainly between Life Mag and CBS. Life was planning to feature stills from the film in its next issue. The film could not be lost or destroyed. It had to be altered and quickly. You know the rest of the story, I hope. Off to Hawkeye Works for alteration. Realizing, however, that they couldn't do enough to obscure what happened, it was back to Zapruder that weekend to give him another $50,000 for the full rights to the film, including the right to show it in full as a motion picture. They then buried it from public view until a bootleg copy (not even the original, which was gone) was shown in1975 on TV to gasps in the audience. Their job finished, Life sold the rights back to Zapruder for $1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) I never thought I would be learning something from DVP, but I was not aware of this either. Lifton thought Oswald was firing blanks from the TSBD? Is that really true? And Ready jumped in the car, and JBC was shot from the front during the tussle? OMG. Edited February 3 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Hello everybody, I have read the entire thread. So, some people write that Lifton's laptop computer "crashed and he lost everything" (which, to my mind, would have been devastating and might have sped his demise), while other members write that his work will soon be published. I wonder : which version is the right one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 30 minutes ago, François Carlier said: So, some people write that Lifton's laptop computer "crashed and he lost everything" (which, to my mind, would have been devastating and might have sped his demise), while other members write that his work will soon be published. I wonder: which version is the right one? Hi Francois, Good to see you posting! How have you been?! Re: Lifton's book..... I too have heard that Lifton's book manuscript was "lost" in a computer hard drive crash. But I find it very hard to believe that Mr. Lifton would have had his manuscript stored in only one location. His "Final Charade" project was obviously extraordinarily valuable to him personally, which would mean (I would think) that he would certainly have wanted to have at least one back-up copy stored somewhere in his digital files. (And probably more than one back-up. I currently have everything on my computer backed up on two different external hard drives---just in case.) It's hard for me to believe that someone as meticulous with his written posts as David Lifton would have been so careless as to rely on merely one digital source for his very precious "Final Charade" material. I'm guessing there are some "back ups" to be found --- somewhere. Edited February 3 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: There was a fight in the car after Ready jumped in, and this is how Connally got shot from the front? We should wait for more detail from Gary, but there was a witness that described a man with a hand gun by the limo, maybe Lifton had more on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamey Flanagan Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, David Von Pein said: That's about the size of it (according to Mr. Lifton). I'm not really sure, though, what difference it makes whether Connally was shot from the "front" or the "rear" in Lifton's fantasy version of that shooting. The "front vs. rear" trajectory thing seems kind of moot and totally unimportant via a scenario which is supposedly taking place only after the car has already left Dealey Plaza. But the "Ready Shot Connally" fairy tale was obviously invented by Lifton sometime after he had decided he had to find a way to keep both limo victims from being hit by shots fired from the TSBD. And he had to do that because he had already decided that Oswald was merely firing "blanks" at JFK's car from the Depository. (See Part 10 of Lifton's video series [below] to enjoy the full thrust of Mr. Lifton's "Oswald Fired Blanks" make-believe fantasy.) But Oswald had two daughters..........he obviously wasn't shooting blanks! 😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, Jamey Flanagan said: But Oswald had two daughters..........he obviously wasn't shooting blanks! 😂😂😂 No, no, Jamey! You're wrong! Lifton's theory was that another man's semen was "planted" in Marina! The real father of Junie and Rachel was Tom Tilson! 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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