Hit List-- The Systematic Murders of JFK Witnesses

[Joe Bauer]

Whoever brought the Bower's missing finger story into the public realm in the first place? And why? It's such an odd and seemingly meaningless anecdote.

The story would not have made anyone who proposed it any money.

Was Bower cremated as quickly as they say? If so...why?

If there was an official autopsy and report, wouldn't a pathologist have noticed and mentioned in their report a missing or even partially missing finger?

The car Bowers was driving was brand new and owned by his employer...yes?

For insurance property loss and liability purposes alone wouldn't Bower's employer want a thorough investigation into this incongruous, single car mid-morning obliteration of their car and Bowers himself?

 Whether the accident was alcohol related or drug or suicide caused. Did the company insurance policy on their car provide any death benefit to Bower's wife?

It makes sense that Bower's employer and their insurance company would want a more thorough investigation ( especially an autopsy with blood tests ) than there was.

Edited July 27 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

15 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

I’ve finished Reading Hit List, looked over Chernen’s analysis and checked other references. I find several problems with the JFK Assassination “Clean Up Squad” theory.

First, it’s indisputable that the Deaths of Oswald and Tippit are both suspicious to say the least.

Second, I focused on the year between the assassination and the issuance of the Warren Report. This is the period when the conspirators would be in greatest danger of having the plot unravelled by troublesome witnesses, when the most dangerous witnesses would need to be silenced and when the original plotters most motivated to squelch the investigation were likely still alive.

According to Social Security data (Table 1 from the reference below), the age-adjusted central death rate for adults in 1964 was 1,209.7 deaths per 100,000 or 1.21% or 0.0121. This figure is for all deaths including natural causes, accidents, homicides and suicides. While the latter 3 groups can show volatility from year to year, in aggregate, they are typically about 5-10% the total death rate.

https://www-origin.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_studies/study116.pdf

 

Accordingly, from the population of 1400 JFK assassination witnesses, the expected total number of deaths in 1964 is

1400 witnesses * 0.0121 death rate = 17 total deaths.

Approximately 5-10% of these deaths should be from other than natural causes resulting in about 15 deaths from natural causes and 1 or 2 from accidents, homicide or suicide.

From the Appendix of Hit List, there are a total of 21 (omitting Eddy Benevides who died in 1965) deaths listed in 1963-64, only one of which (Bill Chesher) is explicitly cited as from natural causes.

My question is, where are the 15 deaths from natural causes which should be present? I am assuming that all deaths from the period are listed since Bill Chesher is included. If they were not listed, it precludes a verification that the population of witnesses is representative of the general population with the exception of presumed knowledge of the JFK assassination. Both the expected deaths from natural causes and the 21 suspicious deaths are sufficiently small fractions of the 1400 witnesses that there is negligible probability of overlap. Did the clean up squad manage to find all those on death’s door and speed up the process and throw in another 6 to get 21? Or were there actually 36 deaths of witnesses during the period?
 

Consulting Who’s Who in the JFK Assassination, I see that it does not give date of death of each of the witnesses so it is doubtful that that they were ever identified.

The 0.0121 annual death rate can be converted to an annual survival probability (1-0.0121 = 0.9879) which can estimate (while the general death rate was declining during this period, the surviving witnesses were also growing significantly older) the number of expected deaths over the 15 years between the assassination and the HSCA investigation as follows:

1400 * (1 - 0.9879^15) = 234 which is suspiciously close to the 240 or so suspicious deaths claimed for the period in Chernen’s anslysis.

I found it curious that the one witness who might have actually known something important about the JFK assassination that died during 1964-64 was Guy Banister who died of a heart attack (which is actually a natural cause) but is considered suspicious. Maybe the hit squad used their heart attack-inducing agent to kill him. But then why not use it in the other cases as well?

Most of the other witnesses have some extremely tenuous connections. A good example is Hank Killam who was acquainted with John Carter who resided at Oswald’s rooming house and who’s wife worked for Ruby and were apparently not significant enough themselves to be eliminated.

The final note I’ll make is that several of the dead witnesses were in occupations that had to have death rates significantly higher than the population in general including organized crime figures, strippers, paramilitary mercenaries and drug runners, cops.

I can offer several more criticisms but that’s enough for now. Needless to say, I found no probative value in Hit List.

In addition to other things, I found Hit List valuable for the part on the what was it (from memory) 7 or so top FBI officials from 1963 dying in 1977-78 when they were coming up for HSCA testimony.  Like Roselli, Giancana and de Mohernschildt. among others.

Edited July 27 by Ron Bulman

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

In addition to other things, I found Hit List valuable for the part on the what was it (from memory) 7 or so top FBI officials from 1963 dying in 1977-78 when they were coming up for HSCA testimony.  Like Roselli, Trafficante and de Mohernschildt. among others.

Including Sam Giancana, who was shot several times around the mouth the night before his scheduled Congressional testimony-- "O" for "Omerta."

Incidentally, mobster Jack Zagretti was shot in the mouth after he announced that Jack Ruby was going to kill Oswald.

Do those subtle clues have any "probative value" for WCR defenders? 🙄

[Kevin Balch]

13 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Including Sam Giancana, who was shot several times around the mouth the night before his scheduled Congressional testimony-- "O" for "Omerta."

Incidentally, mobster Jack Zagretti was shot in the mouth after he announced that Jack Ruby was going to kill Oswald.

Do those subtle clues have any "probative value" for WCR defenders? 🙄

Why weren’t the most damaging witnesses killed first? Why did they wait 15 years?

Is it just possible that Giancana, Roselli being mob figures, were involved in a lot of other things other than the JFK assassination (if they were involved at all) that could also be a reason for their deaths?

As for Zagretty, he is supposed to have remarked to friends that Ruby was going to kill Oswald. Why weren’t the friends killed as well assuming this occurred between the 22nd and the 24th when the plot could have been disrupted? An additional problem is that the time of Zagretty’s death is not known with any degree of precision and is possible it could have been before the assassination.

 

[Kevin Balch]

10 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Whoever brought the Bower's missing finger story into the public realm in the first place? And why? It's such an odd and seemingly meaningless anecdote.

The story would not have made anyone who proposed it any money.

Was Bower cremated as quickly as they say? If so...why?

If there was an official autopsy and report, wouldn't a pathologist have noticed and mentioned in their report a missing or even partially missing finger?

The car Bowers was driving was brand new and owned by his employer...no?

For insurance property loss and liability purposes alone wouldn't Bower's employer want a thorough investigation into this incongruous, single car mid-morning obliteration of their car and Bower himself?

 Whether the accident was alcohol related or drug or suicide caused. Did the company insurance policy on their car provide any death benefit to Bower's wife?

It makes sense that Bower's employers and their insurance company would want a more thorough investigation than there was.

Here’s one investigation of the Bowers death that includes the death certificate but apparently the source is unreliable according to some on the forum.

http://dperry1943.com/bowers.html

What did Bowers see that was so dangerous? Why did the clean up squad wait two years after he testified to the Warren Commission to silence him? Big backlog of witnesses to eliminate?

 

[Ron Bulman]

 

[Kevin Balch]

9 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

 

What do you think of Charnin’s analysis of the 2016 presidential election?

https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Won-True-Vote-Independents/dp/1979900973/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1512494633&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27:Richard+Charnin

[Chuck Schwartz]

The most important witness was Lee H. Oswald . He was killed a few days after the Big Event.  

Lee Bowers said he saw a shooter behind the picket fence up on the grassy knoll.  That is why he died in  a suspicious accident  

Roselli was murdered right before he was to testify in Washington D.C.   George DeM.  was suicided right before he was to testify in Washington D. C.  

 

 

[Kevin Balch]

1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

The most important witness was Lee H. Oswald . He was killed a few days after the Big Event.  

Lee Bowers said he saw a shooter behind the picket fence up on the grassy knoll.  That is why he died in  a suspicious accident  

Roselli was murdered right before he was to testify in Washington D.C.   George DeM.  was suicided right before he was to testify in Washington D. C.  

 

 

I agree that Oswald’s death is suspicious as is Tippit’s.

Lee Bowers did NOT claim to see a shooter behind the fence. If I am mistaken, please show where he said that.

If Roselli was such a dangerous witness, why wasn’t he among the first to be silenced? Why wait 15 years? Why not before he was first called to testify?

What is the evidence DeM was “suicided”?

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

Here’s one investigation of the Bowers death that includes the death certificate but apparently the source is unreliable according to some on the forum.

http://dperry1943.com/bowers.html

What did Bowers see that was so dangerous? Why did the clean up squad wait two years after he testified to the Warren Commission to silence him? Big backlog of witnesses to eliminate?

Could be that the publicity of Bower's willing participation with Mark Lane including a live interview in Lane's well shown documentary 
Rush To Judgement" may have spooked the nefarious powers to be into considering Bower's and other things he may have seen but kept private as a serious threat.

Bower's was provenly threatened, up until his death. If it was true that he was threatened to the point of a finger loss, everything makes more sense as to why he was murdered. 

No autopsy and a quick cremation made no sense. Bower's had a wife. Maybe even parents? You would think that they may have wanted more than a day or two to decided what to do with his broken body?

Any close loving relative may have at least considered a church service and physical burial, wouldn't you think?

My common sense can't buy the scenario of a shocked and grieving Bowers's widow and his other surviving family members so quickly telling a mortuary "burn him" and in just a day or two after their shocking loss.

[Kevin Balch]

57 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Could be that the publicity of Bower's willing participation with Mark Lane including a live interview in Lane's well shown documentary 
Rush To Judgement" may have spooked the nefarious powers to be into considering Bower's and other things he may have seen but kept private as a serious threat.

Bower's was provenly threatened, up until his death. If it was true that he was threatened to the point of a finger loss, everything makes more sense as to why he was murdered. 

No autopsy and a quick cremation made no sense. Bower's had a wife. Maybe even parents? You would think that they may have wanted more than a day or two to decided what to do with his broken body?

Any close loving relative may have at least considered a church service and physical burial, wouldn't you think?

My common sense can't buy the scenario of a shocked and grieving Bowers's widow and his other surviving family members so quickly telling a mortuary "burn him" and in just a day or two after their shocking loss.

According to the Dave Perry article, there was a funeral service time accompanying his obituary published in the local paper.

http://dperry1943.com/bowers.html

Dale Myers cited the unedited transcripts of the interview of Lee Bowers made in 1966 to dispute that Lee Bowers saw anyone behind the fence, but those he saw were on the Elm Street side of the fence by the pergola. The interview finally presented in the Rush to Judgement documentary omitted this information according to Myers.

https://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/badgeman_4.htm

This Ed Forum thread from 2009 claimed to have found the location of the transcripts (which Myers failed to disclose). Note that the transcripts were first used by Gary Mack. The 2009 Forum thread goes back and forth about fair use of the transcripts (even though Myers presents a photocopy of a portion of the transcripts) but never discusses whether Myers interpretation of the transcripts is valid.

https://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/badgeman_4.htm

Has anyone compare the transcripts with what is presented in the documentary and what was the conclusion?

Why would Bowers spill the beans to Mark Lane if it was so explosive that it might risk his life?

[Bill Brown]

16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

No one knows for sure, no autopsy, quicky cremated.

 

No.

We do know for sure that Bowers did not have a finger cut off by kidnappers.

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 minute ago, Bill Brown said:

 

No.

We do know for sure that Bowers did not have a finger cut off by kidnappers.

 

Based on what?

The source of the account of the severed finger was, apparently, a personal friend of Bowers.

His wife also reported that Bowers had been threatened and told not to talk.

Posner is a well known l-i-a-r.

Why a certain forum members referencing him as a credible historian?

[Bill Brown]

3 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Based on what?

The source of the account of the severed finger was, apparently, a personal friend of Bowers.

His wife also reported that Bowers had been threatened and told not to talk.

Posner is a well known l-i-a-r.

Why a certain forum members referencing him as a credible historian?

 

Have you ever seen the film version of Rush To Judgement?

If so, then you should know that Bowers is filmed sitting at a table with Mark Lane.  In the filmed interview, Lane asks Bowers how many shots he heard.  Bowers says he heard three shots.  Lane then asks Bowers to replicate the spacing of the shots.  Bowers, with one hand clearly visible resting atop the table (all five fingers intact) knocks on the tabletop with his other hand (also with all five fingers intact).

I'm sorry but some of you guys just aren't using your head.

 

[Denny Zartman]

2 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

What is the evidence DeM was “suicided”?

Maybe he wasn't "suicided", but if he wasn't, wouldn't you agree this seems to be one hell of a coincidence?

<quote>

Charles Nicoletti was a leading figure in the Mafia in Chicago. He worked under Tony Accardo and Sam Giancana and got the reputation as an effective contract killer. He was also involved in the CIA plots to overthrow Fidel Castro in Cuba.

According to James Files, Nicoletti was one of the gunmen who took part in the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

On 29th March, 1977, Charles Nicoletti was murdered in Chicago. He had been shot three times in the back of the head. George De Mohrenschildt died the same day. Both men were due to appear before the Select House Committee on Assassinations where they were to be asked about their involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

</quote>

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKnicoletti.htm