MAINSTREAM vs MAGA COOLER - For those who want to challenge the other side.

[Pat Speer]

In order to have perspective, one needs to see things from another angle.

Suppose Hunter Biden enthusiastically met with Chinese agents prior to an election. Suppose Joe Biden then publicly called on China to hack into computers and find some useful dirt on his opponent in this election. Suppose a website soon thereafter put up this useful dirt, and suppose a subsequent investigation proved this dirt came from hackers sponsored by the Chinese Government. Now suppose one of Biden's closest advisers was in contact with this website at this time, and that he lied about his contacts to investigators. Now suppose as well that Biden's campaign manager was providing important polling and demographic information to Chinese billionaires, who were in contact with Chinese government sponsored hackers, who were using fake profiles to spread reams of misinformation on social media. 

And now suppose that within months of taking office, Biden covered Xi with praise, defended China against its adversaries, and presented China with top secret information from another country, that was meant for U.S. eyes only. 

An investigation into the Biden campaign's actions would be appropriate, yes?

YES!! YES!!! Absolutely YES!!! 

[Benjamin Cole]

15 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Ben and Matt - are you equal opportunity critics on both Republican and Democratic establishments? 

Until 25 years ago or so, I was deep blue. 

Now I think both parties, allied media and government are hopelessly, incorrigibly and institutionally corrupt. 

At present, Donk President Biden is the man responsible for the snuff job on the JFK Records Act. Has anyone in his party murmured a complaint? How about inside the federal government? How about in the media? 

Crickets all around. I am supposed to vote for said party?

The 'Phants are about equal. 

Just IMHO.....

 

[Bob Ness]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

There is no evidence of collusion between the Trumpers and Moscow. Even deep-state apparatchik Mueller

I'm getting really tired of this BS. You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about as you go "bothsidering" down the defend Trump path. DON'T SAY YOU'RE AGNOSTIC YOU CLEARLY AREN'T.

Predicates for opening a CI investigation are minimal and Billy Barr's toady, Durham, while ignoring a possible serious problem in Italy, was unable to win a conviction over anyone for an investigation that netted something like 37 convictions. That was while the POTUS engaged in over thirty agreements with other defendents, including seven felons, to obstruct any and all investigations into that and other matters by bribing, promising pardons, and intimidating witnesses. He had the DoJ and Billy B drop convictions against Flynn for get this : Acting as an Agent of a Foreign Country which his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was also doing while dropping polling info on a known Russian asset.

Mueller NEVER INVESTIGATED COLLUSION BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A CRIMINAL CHARGE THEY COULD BRING. THEY INVESTIGATED CONSPIRACY AND OBSTRUCTION BUT DEFERED BECAUSE OF THE DoJ POLICY N REGARDS TO SITTING PRESIDENTS.

You keep blithering Fox BS to cover for the worst piece of crap this country ever foisted on the world. You're apparently unaware that NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE US has it been possible for a person with pardon powers to engage in a mutual defense agreement with co-conspirators in a criminal investigation against that group and also HEAD THE INVESTIGATION through corrupt proxies like Durham and Barr.

Why that fails to register with you and some others here is beyond me. The entire episode will go down as the most corrupt time n our history unless of course idiots vote for the trash again. 

Get your facts straight. You have no right to make people here more stupid because they're nice and believe you wouldn't tell "untruths".

[Benjamin Cole]

15 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

I'm getting really tired of this BS. You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about as you go "bothsidering" down the defend Trump path. DON'T SAY YOU'RE AGNOSTIC YOU CLEARLY AREN'T.

Predicates for opening a CI investigation are minimal and Billy Barr's toady, Durham, while ignoring a possible serious problem in Italy, was unable to win a conviction over anyone for an investigation that netted something like 37 convictions. That was while the POTUS engaged in over thirty agreements with other defendents, including seven felons, to obstruct any and all investigations into that and other matters by bribing, promising pardons, and intimidating witnesses. He had the DoJ and Billy B drop convictions against Flynn for get this : Acting as an Agent of a Foreign Country which his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was also doing while dropping polling info on a known Russian asset.

Mueller NEVER INVESTIGATED COLLUSION BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A CRIMINAL CHARGE THEY COULD BRING. THEY INVESTIGATED CONSPIRACY AND OBSTRUCTION BUT DEFERED BECAUSE OF THE DoJ POLICY N REGARDS TO SITTING PRESIDENTS.

You keep blithering Fox BS to cover for the worst piece of crap this country ever foisted on the world. You're apparently unaware that NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE US has it been possible for a person with pardon powers to engage in a mutual defense agreement with co-conspirators in a criminal investigation against that group and also HEAD THE INVESTIGATION through corrupt proxies like Durham and Barr.

Why that fails to register with you and some others here is beyond me. The entire episode will go down as the most corrupt time n our history unless of course idiots vote for the trash again. 

Get your facts straight. You have no right to make people here more stupid because they're nice and believe you wouldn't tell "untruths".

Thank you for your comments, and we are world's apart in our viewpoints. 

There are many serious journalists who say the same as I, regarding the Russiagate Hoax. 

I have the same right to post my views here as anyone else, as long as I am civil, and do not engage in hate speech, or violate forum rules. 

 

 

 

[Bob Ness]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thank you for your comments, and we are world's apart in our viewpoints. 

There are many serious journalists who say the same as I, regarding the Russiagate Hoax. 

I have the same right to post my views here as anyone else, as long as I am civil, and do not engage in hate speech, or violate forum rules. 

 

What you posted is factually untrue. That's not a "view" I have. Mueller NEVER said what you quoted him as saying.

Maybe there's a clue store or something in Thailand where you can purchase one. 

I find it interesting you are unable to respond to my other points about mutual defense agreements and corrupt AGs. Not many understand that but once pointed out it should be obvious. How many presidents in history have done that?

And btw that's also not a "view" I have. Those are facts.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

What you posted is factually untrue. That's not a "view" I have. Mueller NEVER said what you quoted him as saying.

Maybe there's a clue store or something in Thailand where you can purchase one. 

I find it interesting you are unable to respond to my other points about mutual defense agreements and corrupt AGs. Not many understand that but once pointed out it should be obvious. How many presidents in history have done that?

And btw that's also not a "view" I have. Those are facts.

Thanks for your comments.

I am not sure what you are referring to, regarding corrupt AGs and mutual defense agreements. If you wish, I encourage you to elaborate your views.

---30---

Even far-left East Coasty, PC-maxed out NPR said: 

Mueller Report Finds No Evidence Of Russian Collusion

March 24, 2019 5:14 PM ET

Heard on All Things Considered

By 

Philip Ewing

"The Mueller Report did not find any evidence of collusion, but did find two main efforts by the Russians to interfere in the 2016 presidential campaign."

---30---

That's not me talking. That's NPR. 

We have different views on what are "facts." 

In addition, I regard anyone---Trump, Biden or RFK Jr.---as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law in front of a jury of peers. 

Government investigations are like kangaroo courts. Consider the Warren Commission. What you get when there is no defense counsel and courtroom with rules of evidence: Witch-hunts. Cuts both ways. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

In order to have perspective, one needs to see things from another angle.

Suppose Hunter Biden enthusiastically met with Chinese agents prior to an election. Suppose Joe Biden then publicly called on China to hack into computers and find some useful dirt on his opponent in this election. Suppose a website soon thereafter put up this useful dirt, and suppose a subsequent investigation proved this dirt came from hackers sponsored by the Chinese Government. Now suppose one of Biden's closest advisers was in contact with this website at this time, and that he lied about his contacts to investigators. Now suppose as well that Biden's campaign manager was providing important polling and demographic information to Chinese billionaires, who were in contact with Chinese government sponsored hackers, who were using fake profiles to spread reams of misinformation on social media. 

And now suppose that within months of taking office, Biden covered Xi with praise, defended China against its adversaries, and presented China with top secret information from another country, that was meant for U.S. eyes only. 

An investigation into the Biden campaign's actions would be appropriate, yes?

YES!! YES!!! Absolutely YES!!! 

 

A Washington Post report published Wednesday shed new light on Hunter Biden's dealings with a Chinese energy firm and confirmed several details found on the hard drive of a laptop he allegedly abandoned in a Delaware repair shop.

CEFC China Energy, which has close ties to the Chinese Communist Party and People's Liberation Army, paid entities controlled by the then-cash-strapped Hunter Biden or his uncle James Biden (Joe Biden's brother) $4.8 million over the course of 14 months beginning in 2017, according to The Washington Post.

Yahoo March 31, 2022

---30---

Biden says frozen U.S.-China ties should 'thaw very shortly'--Japan Times, today

---30---

OK, so the $4 million bought off Biden?

We should conclude that?

No trial necessary?

A GOP congressional investigation is solid gold and can be trusted? 

Under Trump, if the trade deficit with China did not narrow, the tariffs were slated to escalate. Nothing doing under Biden. 

Still, for me, President Biden is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

 

 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Until 25 years ago or so, I was deep blue. 

Now I think both parties, allied media and government are hopelessly, incorrigibly and institutionally corrupt. 

At present, Donk President Biden is the man responsible for the snuff job on the JFK Records Act. Has anyone in his party murmured a complaint? How about inside the federal government? How about in the media? 

Crickets all around. I am supposed to vote for said party?

The 'Phants are about equal. 

Just IMHO.....

 

Institutionally corrupt. In some measure I agree with you. But what I am getting at is the fact that the Democrats in Congress, while trying to stay united against an implacable Republican Party, are quite divided. Where your arguments fall short for me is that you only give lip service to your disdain for Trump, while vilifying the Democrats as if they are in lockstep the way Republicans are. One party stands firmly against human rights, women’s rights, voting rights. To put this another way, there are almost no honorable Republicans left in Congress, whereas there are many honorable Democrats who would be fighting tooth and nail for their principles if there was just a modicum of fair play. Republicans stacked the Supreme Court, not even having the decency to allow Obama to make an appointment to the court. Republicans in state after state have attacked voting rights of minorities, have passed draconian abortion laws, the latest travesty of Justice in Florida where a 6 week ban is now the law. 
if you are an equal opportunity hater of both parties then you no longer stand for basic human rights, and you lose all credibility in any arguments you make about the corruption of the Democratic Party.

[W. Niederhut]

6 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

I'm getting really tired of this BS. You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about as you go "bothsidering" down the defend Trump path. DON'T SAY YOU'RE AGNOSTIC YOU CLEARLY AREN'T.

Predicates for opening a CI investigation are minimal and Billy Barr's toady, Durham, while ignoring a possible serious problem in Italy, was unable to win a conviction over anyone for an investigation that netted something like 37 convictions. That was while the POTUS engaged in over thirty agreements with other defendents, including seven felons, to obstruct any and all investigations into that and other matters by bribing, promising pardons, and intimidating witnesses. He had the DoJ and Billy B drop convictions against Flynn for get this : Acting as an Agent of a Foreign Country which his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was also doing while dropping polling info on a known Russian asset.

Mueller NEVER INVESTIGATED COLLUSION BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A CRIMINAL CHARGE THEY COULD BRING. THEY INVESTIGATED CONSPIRACY AND OBSTRUCTION BUT DEFERED BECAUSE OF THE DoJ POLICY N REGARDS TO SITTING PRESIDENTS.

You keep blithering Fox BS to cover for the worst piece of crap this country ever foisted on the world. You're apparently unaware that NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE US has it been possible for a person with pardon powers to engage in a mutual defense agreement with co-conspirators in a criminal investigation against that group and also HEAD THE INVESTIGATION through corrupt proxies like Durham and Barr.

Why that fails to register with you and some others here is beyond me. The entire episode will go down as the most corrupt time n our history unless of course idiots vote for the trash again. 

Get your facts straight. You have no right to make people here more stupid because they're nice and believe you wouldn't tell "untruths".

Well said, Bob.

All of this has been explained to Benjamin Cole, repeatedly, in response to his persistent inaccurate posts about the Mueller and Durham investigations.

Ben's response?

He simply posted another inaccurate trope from the mainstream media-- as if any headline published in the mainstream media is, obviously, true... 🙄

Debating with Ben is a bit like trying to reason with a television.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Institutionally corrupt. In some measure I agree with you. But what I am getting at is the fact that the Democrats in Congress, while trying to stay united against an implacable Republican Party, are quite divided. Where your arguments fall short for me is that you only give lip service to your disdain for Trump, while vilifying the Democrats as if they are in lockstep the way Republicans are. One party stands firmly against human rights, women’s rights, voting rights. To put this another way, there are almost no honorable Republicans left in Congress, whereas there are many honorable Democrats who would be fighting tooth and nail for their principles if there was just a modicum of fair play. Republicans stacked the Supreme Court, not even having the decency to allow Obama to make an appointment to the court. Republicans in state after state have attacked voting rights of minorities, have passed draconian abortion laws, the latest travesty of Justice in Florida where a 6 week ban is now the law. 
if you are an equal opportunity hater of both parties then you no longer stand for basic human rights, and you lose all credibility in any arguments you make about the corruption of the Democratic Party.

PB-

If you say I have lost credibility, then that is your view. 

I am deeply skeptical of both major political parties. I think the two parties have earned my skepticism---particularly in regards to the JFKA and JFK Records Act, which I assume is of importance in the EF-JFKA. 

As of now, I find RFK Jr. a very interesting candidate. If he can, he will run as a Democrat. 

Side note: My personal view is abortion should be legal for some time---perhaps first eight to 12 weeks of pregnancy. But surely there is no moral high ground in abortion debates. 

Many apolitical devout Catholics and others regard abortion as murder. Is that view incorrect? Who can say? Is your God more real or less real than that of devout Catholics? 

If there is no God, then the only moral law is that made by man. Then it is man deciding that abortion is a right or wrong, as well as murder or state execution. Opinions, in other words. (One theme of the book, "All the King's Men.")

I must confess there is no logic to my abortion position. Abortion is OK until what point after inception? 

You think one party or the other has high moral ground on abortion? 

You don't think abortion is an intentionally divisive issue? 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well said, Bob.

All of this has been explained to Benjamin Cole, repeatedly, in response to his persistent inaccurate posts about the Mueller and Durham investigations.

Ben's response?

He simply posted another inaccurate trope from the mainstream media-- as if any headline published in the mainstream media is, obviously, true... 🙄

Debating with Ben is a bit like trying to reason with a television.

 

As usual, we are world's apart in our views. 

I think you are mistaken in your take on the Russiagate Hoax.

But to each his own. 

[Bob Ness]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thanks for your comments.

I am not sure what you are referring to, regarding corrupt AGs and mutual defense agreements. If you wish, I encourage you to elaborate your views.

---30---

Even far-left East Coasty, PC-maxed out NPR said: 

Mueller Report Finds No Evidence Of Russian Collusion

March 24, 2019 5:14 PM ET

Heard on All Things Considered

 

Most like because the don't know their asses from a hole in the ground. This is Mueller's EXACT QUOTE

 

..."During the course of our investigation we charged more than 30 defendants with committing federal crimes, including 12 officers of the Russian military. Seven defendants have been convicted or plead guilty.

We did not address collusion, which is not a legal term; rather we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy, and there was not.     Third, our investigation of efforts to obstruct the investigation and lie to investigators was of critical importance. Obstruction of justice strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth and to hold wrongdoers accountable."...
 

[Sandy Larsen]

 

Everybody should be aware of this. RFK says in the video that the Durham Report has in it the following:

"You have...fifty top level CIA agents who agree to collaborate in a project to fix an election [against Trump]."

That is precisely the thing the MAGAs want the report to say! And yet the conclusion of the report is precisely the opposite. There was no such misconduct by the FBI and CIA, according to the report.

So why did RFK Jr. say that?  It is now all over the MAGAsphere.

(Am I misunderstanding something?)

 

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

As usual, we are world's apart in our views. 

I think you are mistaken in your take on the Russiagate Hoax.

But to each his own. 

I'm not mistaken. Here's the sentencing memo regarding the coffee boy. Read it and weep. If you can't read actual court documents maybe you should try to learn rather than posting garbage from news clowns that fits your bias. You say you respect the outcomes of court decisions so here's your chance:

gov.uscourts.dcd.189898.44.0_3.pdf (courtlistener.com)

And here's the coffee boy's own words:

gov.uscourts.dcd.189898.19.0_2.pdf (courtlistener.com)

You'll notice that neither of these is some random Googled headline that seems to be your primary source of information.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bob Ness

[W. Niederhut]

Here's today's meme for Benjamin "No Collusion" Cole.

Ben claimed this past week that he had finally read the Mueller Report, but he, obviously, didn't read it very carefully.

Let's recall that Trump unexpectedly won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by razor thin margins in 2016-- by a combined margin of only 80,000 votes-- despite trailing bigly in pre-election and exit polls.

And recall that Julian Assange Emailed Don Trump, Jr. on election advising Trump not to concede, even if it appeared that he was losing the election in those swing states.