Oswald Acted Alone Is The Most Popular Theory

[Bill Brown]

23 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

The most important fact reality here is that 65% of Americans polled do not believe the Warren Commission finding that Oswald was the assassin of JFK and that he acted alone.

Even after "61 years" ( ! ) of aggressive government and mainstream media efforts to convince the public otherwise. 

Parse that number up in any way you want with disagreements among this 65% regards who they specifically think may have been involved. Yet in this over-all WC rejecting context, the entire 65% are all in agreement.

Of course the "who did it" secondary importance question contemplation is all over the map within that 65% group.

Heck, the same is true right here on this forum of highly informed versus the general public JFKA students and researchers.

Consensus rejection of the Warren Commission Oswald LN finding by 2/3rds of Americans polled after 61 years of debate is the real worthy story here.

 

"The most important fact reality here is that 65% of Americans polled do not believe the Warren Commission finding that Oswald was the assassin of JFK and that he acted alone."

 

Of those 65%, I'd bet that 99.8% of them don't know anything about the case.  They've never heard names like Ruth Paine, J.D. Tippit, Howard Brennan and Buell Frazier.  They only know terms like "grassy knoll" and "magic bullet".

 

Also, important to note, My 65%-35% numbers were made up; I wasn't referring to any particular poll.  It was a hypothetical.

 

Edited April 23 by Bill Brown

[Joe Bauer]

1 minute ago, Bill Brown said:

Also, important to note, My 65%-35% numbers were made up; I wasn't referring to any particular poll.  It was a hypothetical.

Really?

 

[Bill Brown]

21 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Please enlighten us on your definition of the word “theory”. Here are a few dictionary definitions for reference: 

Merriam Webster

- a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

- an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE

- the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

Cambridge

- something suggested as a reasonable explanation for facts, a condition, or an event, esp. a systematic or scientific explanation: 

- a statement of an opinion or an explanation of an idea that is believed to be true, but might be wrong:

So according to the dictionary at least you are literally wrong. 

 

"Oswald didn't act alone" is NOT a complete theory.

 

[Tom Gram]

51 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Oswald didn't act alone" is NOT a complete theory.

“Most popular complete theory” doesn’t really have the same ring to it. Also theory completeness is a math thing so it could get a bit confusing. 

I get what you’re trying to say and am just being annoying, but you could’ve just said “Oswald acted alone is the most popular theory of who killed JFK”. That’s probably accurate and makes the same point you seem to have been going for with this pointless thread. 

Edited April 23 by Tom Gram

[Sandy Larsen]

54 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Of those 65%, I'd bet that 99.8% of them don't know anything about the case.  They've never heard names like Ruth Paine, J.D. Tippit, Howard Brennan and Buell Frazier.  They only know terms like "grassy knoll" and "magic bullet".

 

If you include in your (hypothetical) poll only people who know a lot of the details, I'll bet that over 90% believe there was a conspiracy.

 

 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

“Most popular complete theory” doesn’t really have the same ring to it. Also theory completeness is a math thing so it could get a bit confusing. 

I get what you’re trying to say and am just being annoying, but you could’ve just said “Oswald acted alone is the most popular theory of who killed JFK”. That’s probably accurate and makes the same point you seem to have been going for with this pointless thread. 

 

Once again I ask you... What makes you think I give two shits about how YOU think I should handle things?  I'm curious.

 

[Pat Speer]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:18 PM, Bill Brown said:

 

You don't get it.

"Oswald didn't act alone" is NOT a theory.

Let that sink in for a minute.

 

I will agree with your basic point, Bill. 

IF one is asked did Oswald act alone, the vast majority of people will say no, but not because they have an extensive knowledge of the case.

IF one is asked what is your particular theory, as to who pulled the trigger, and who made the decision the trigger should be pulled, however, the Oswald did it all by his lonesome theory will be by far the most common answer. 

But, once again, it is not because those saying this have an extensive knowledge of the case. 

And there is a reason for this. if you study the statements of people commenting on the case over decades, you will find that many of those attracted to the more than Oswald theory view the case as part of a larger pattern of evil misdeeds by a they. These people are attracted to conspiracy because they see conspiracies everywhere.

But by the same token, many if not most of those claiming Oswald did it now stop talking come from a position of fear--a fear of the unknown, and a fear that Oswald's possible innocence suggests something about America that they just won't let themselves believe. I mean, Earl Warren and Walter Cronkite were wrong? And Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, and Oliver Stone were right? For some that's impossible to fathom, and their whole world is threatened by such a possibility.

Now, I have spent countless hours arguing online, and discussing the case in emails and in person with people of both camps--the Oswald did its and the more than Oswalds. And I can say that at least 50% of what most CTs believe is garbage, and at least 20% of what most LNs believe is garbage. So from hearing this, one might think I'm leaning towards LN. But no, far from it, the myth put together by the Warren Commission was stretched so thin that if even 5% of what they claimed is garbage, then a reasonable person would have to accept the possibility there was more to it than Oswald. 

Edited April 23 by Pat Speer

[W. Niederhut]

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

If you include in your (hypothetical) poll only people who know a lot of the details, I'll bet that over 90% believe there was a conspiracy.

 

 

Indeed.  These poll numbers tell us nothing about the JFK assassination evidence, per se.

They are merely an index of public ignorance vs. public knowledge about the evidence.

Propagandists may find them useful, in line with Ronald Reagan's old concept that, "Perception is reality."

As examples of this all-too-common disconnect between reality and mass ignorance, 50% of Republicans in a recent Washington Post survey believe that human activity has not contributed to climate change.

The poll tells us nothing about the scientific climate change evidence.

[Joe Bauer]

19 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

These people are attracted to conspiracy because they see conspiracies everywhere.

I always laugh when I read self-anointed human behavior experts disparaging conspiracy believers as mentally deranged kooks who "see conspiracies everywhere."

True historic reality has shown us there "are" conspiracies everywhere...at least way more than most average person's ever contemplate.  

Not around every corner. Not in most daily activities of common working folks. Not in every family drama and relationships. Not in 90% of American small business life and activity.

Yet, the higher up the corporate, military, government, private wealth influence and control stakes ladder you go, the more conspiratorial that world becomes. It's inherent in their competitive survival and growth mentality DNA. IMO anyways. 

In JFK presidency times the highest level power, wealth, control and influence groups and individuals were such ones as American organized crime, world's richest men Texas Oil, extreme minded segregationist organizations, rogue intelligence agencies, ideological factions in our military, heads of extra government agencies like the FBI, Eisenhower's M.I. C. warning corporate wealth ... all JFK adversarial minded to extreme degrees.

We all know by common sense and deep historical research in that massively wealthy and powerfully influential world of JFK opposing agendas that all of those entities must have had conspiracies brewing in their shared goal of defeating anything JFK was proposing that threatened their influence and wealth. 

Conspiracies everywhere? No. But much more in those realms of power and influence than the average person ever imagined during JFK's time?

Edited April 24 by Joe Bauer

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'm amazed this thread has gone on for 3 pages on what is obviously a semantics "divide and conquer" statement, that has no real relevance.

4 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Of those 65%, I'd bet that 99.8% of them don't know anything about the case.  They've never heard names like Ruth Paine, J.D. Tippit, Howard Brennan and Buell Frazier.  They only know terms like "grassy knoll" and "magic bullet".

It's interesting it went to the third page, before Brown said anything of relevance. As Tom pointed out, he could have worded it differently, from the  beginning. But the above statement is true, at least 95%. Most people on both sides don't really know any details. So I've never placed  faith in the polling around the JFKA to mean anything significant. Even though often this general ignorance of the issues is what people come equipped with when they vote in our elections. A high percentage of people also thought Saddam was behind 911.

28 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

And I can say that at least 50% of what most CTs believe is garbage, and at least 20% of what most LNs believe is garbage.

I agree with Pat on this. Unfortunately there tends to be more of a wacko element in avid  Cter's. In general, the many conspiracies fulfill a need   to rationalize that there was never a real chance because life and conspiracies were stacked against them from the onset. I know that's not a popular thing to say.

I've become more concerned , as an old  parent  given the realization that we may have given our kids a better childhood than we had, (with a lot of toys) but they now face the economic reality that most  are not going to be better off than their parents. And a misdirected belief in conspiracies about some totalitarian government that doesn't exist might end up holding them back.

It is important to get a better idea of what and who is the cause of this marginalization. This is probably the most demanding time since the 60's and it's no time to retreat into an era 60 years ago.  It's time for them to get involved and make their issues known. JMO

 

[Charles Blackmon]

6 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

 

Once again I ask you... What makes you think I give two shits about how YOU think I should handle things?  I'm curious.

 

Uh oh hide the women and children.

[Gil Jesus]

 

23 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Really?

 

That sounds about right. Mr. Brown makes up a lot of things, like Tippit was killed at 1:17. Lone Nut supporters have to make up things because the evidence doesn't add up. They're left with "filling in the holes" with opinion, speculation, conjecture and what they call, "common sense".

Their speculations and wild guesses only serve to raise more questions, questions they can't answer.

For example, Mr. Brown puts Helen Markham on the corner witnessing a murder at 1:17, when she should be on her 1:15 bus.

Mr. Brown suggests that Tippit was shot at or after 1:15 and killed instantly. If that's true, how did a doctor at Methodist Hospital know the exact minute he was killed ? Not even a coroner can tell you the exact minute a victim was killed. He can narrow it down to a timeframe, but he can't tell you the exact minute.

There is corroborating evidence that Tippit was killed before 1:15. There's corrborating evidence that documents were altered by the FBI to show Tippit was pronounced dead at 1:25 instead of 1:15.

Mr. Brown and his allies choose to ignore this evidence.

Lone Nutters grab on to one piece of evidence and the hang onto it like their lives depended on it. They do it with the dictabelt. They do it with the "backyard photographs". They do it with the Tippit shells.

They claim Oswald received the murder weapons, but can't tell us on what date he received them or who in the Post Office and REA Express office handed him those weapons.

They can't tell us how Oswald allegedly ordered a 36" troop special and got a 40" short rifle in its stead.

They can't tell us why the shells found at the Tippit murder scene don't match the bullets removed from his body.

They can't tell us how Oswald purchased a postal money order and mailed it in an envelope that was post-marked at a time when his work sheets proved he was at work. 

They can't tell us why the only stamp on the money order is a stamp for deposit and why there are no stamps indicating that payment was made on that money order.

They can't tell us why the "fillers' in the police lineups in no way resembled the descriptions of the witnesses to the Tippit murder.

They can't tell us why Oswald was not allowed to see his family until Saturday.

They can't tell us why Oswald was not allowed to use a phone until Saturday afternoon.

They can't tell us why the back of head autopsy photo shows the scalp intact, when the autopsy report notes that there was a hole that extended into the "occipital region" where there was an "absence of scalp". ( 16 H 980 )

And there are plenty more. They can't explain the gaps in the chain of custody for much of the evidence.

You'll notice, as I do, that 90% of what these Lone Nutters post is comments. They can speculate, but they can't provide the proof to back it up.

 

Edited April 24 by Gil Jesus

[Greg Doudna]

According to one of the members of the Warren Commission, Sen. Russell, a majority--four out of the seven--of the Warren Commission privately disagreed with their own unanimous conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and would have found differently if it had been up to them.

("I have never believed that Oswald planned that altogether by himself ... I'm not completely satisfied in my own mind that he did plan and commit this act altogether on his own, without consultation with anyone else. And that's what a majority of the Commission wanted to find", Sen. Russell [https://archive.org/details/senator-richard-russell-and-the-great-american-murder-mystery.)

That's like if there was a Supreme Court decision 9-0, which 5 of the Justices say they personally believed was unconstitutional and would have found differently if it had been up to them.

[Bill Brown]

On 4/24/2024 at 6:53 AM, Gil Jesus said:

 

That sounds about right. Mr. Brown makes up a lot of things, like Tippit was killed at 1:17. Lone Nut supporters have to make up things because the evidence doesn't add up. They're left with "filling in the holes" with opinion, speculation, conjecture and what they call, "common sense".

Their speculations and wild guesses only serve to raise more questions, questions they can't answer.

For example, Mr. Brown puts Helen Markham on the corner witnessing a murder at 1:17, when she should be on her 1:15 bus.

Mr. Brown suggests that Tippit was shot at or after 1:15 and killed instantly. If that's true, how did a doctor at Methodist Hospital know the exact minute he was killed ? Not even a coroner can tell you the exact minute a victim was killed. He can narrow it down to a timeframe, but he can't tell you the exact minute.

There is corroborating evidence that Tippit was killed before 1:15. There's corrborating evidence that documents were altered by the FBI to show Tippit was pronounced dead at 1:25 instead of 1:15.

Mr. Brown and his allies choose to ignore this evidence.

Lone Nutters grab on to one piece of evidence and the hang onto it like their lives depended on it. They do it with the dictabelt. They do it with the "backyard photographs". They do it with the Tippit shells.

They claim Oswald received the murder weapons, but can't tell us on what date he received them or who in the Post Office and REA Express office handed him those weapons.

They can't tell us how Oswald allegedly ordered a 36" troop special and got a 40" short rifle in its stead.

They can't tell us why the shells found at the Tippit murder scene don't match the bullets removed from his body.

They can't tell us how Oswald purchased a postal money order and mailed it in an envelope that was post-marked at a time when his work sheets proved he was at work. 

They can't tell us why the only stamp on the money order is a stamp for deposit and why there are no stamps indicating that payment was made on that money order.

They can't tell us why the "fillers' in the police lineups in no way resembled the descriptions of the witnesses to the Tippit murder.

They can't tell us why Oswald was not allowed to see his family until Saturday.

They can't tell us why Oswald was not allowed to use a phone until Saturday afternoon.

They can't tell us why the back of head autopsy photo shows the scalp intact, when the autopsy report notes that there was a hole that extended into the "occipital region" where there was an "absence of scalp". ( 16 H 980 )

And there are plenty more. They can't explain the gaps in the chain of custody for much of the evidence.

You'll notice, as I do, that 90% of what these Lone Nutters post is comments. They can speculate, but they can't provide the proof to back it up.

 

 

I don't recall ever saying that Tippit was killed at 1:17.

I'd be upset about you lying about something I said if I actually thought you were lying.  The reality is that you simply don't know what you're talking about at least half the time.