Matt Allison Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) I thought one of the witnesses said "dark complected man" was a black man watching the parade. I've seen people comment about the apparent casualness with which he and "umbrella man" reacted, but I would point out that they were no more casual than the numerous photographers running around on the Knoll at the same time. The only people that seemed especially frightened were the Newman's, who had two small children with them, and thus acted like all good parents should. Edited June 5 by Matt Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cloud Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 16 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: I thought one of the witnesses said "dark complected man" was a black man watching the parade. I've seen people comment about the apparent casualness with which he and "umbrella man" reacted, but I would point out that they were no more casual than the numerous photographers running around on the Knoll at the same time. The only people that seemed especially frightened were the Newman's, who had two small children with them, and thus acted like all good parents should. The photographers were late to the moment by and large and as you say running around. and taking pictures. They weren't sitting, nonchalantly, having just made obscure and obscured hand gestures at the critical moment. So these two were more casual. And the photographers didn't "whistle-on" while walking down the road never to be identified, as "DCM" would do. That the photographers didn't take more direct photos of these two subjects -- or is it none have been released? -- is also perhaps noteworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, Matt Allison said: How would you describe the man sitting here on the curb? Would you say that this man is 5'11", 158 lbs, has brown hair, wears dark glasses, and has a dark complexion? If this man is Felipe Vidal Santiago, where are his dark glasses? Steve Thomas Edited June 6 by Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bartetzko Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 3 hours ago, Matt Allison said: I thought one of the witnesses said "dark complected man" was a black man watching the parade. I've seen people comment about the apparent casualness with which he and "umbrella man" reacted, but I would point out that they were no more casual than the numerous photographers running around on the Knoll at the same time. The only people that seemed especially frightened were the Newman's, who had two small children with them, and thus acted like all good parents should. This is the photo that I remember and was searching for. If you will note, there is a large bulge on the right side and under the jacket, which to me, could be the outline of a pistol. This doesn't appear to be the walkie talkie that he appears to use in other photos. I am curious what others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Yes, well, all I can say is that to me, this looks like a black man sitting on the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 He is Dark Complected, but not Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Physical description of Felipe Vidal Santigo: https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=160684#relPageId=5&search=Felipe_Vidal Santiag Page 5 Born. February 3, 1926 Race: White Height: 6' Build: Slender Hair: Brown, Receding Peculiarities: Wears a Mustache Nothing about wearing dark glasses, and the guy on the curb has no mustache. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 To my knowledge, the photo I posted is the clearest photo available of "dark complected man". If there is a clearer one, I hope someone will post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Aitken Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: How would you describe the man sitting here on the curb? Would you say that this man is 5'11", 158 lbs, has brown hair, wears dark glasses, and has a dark complexion? If this man is Felipe Vidal Santiago, where are his dark glasses? Steve Thomas At least in this photo the DCM looks like the photo of Santiago in the bottom left. The nose looks very similar. Also, at this angle he appears Latino but it’s a little more ambiguous in the other photo showing the back of his head. Other than the Zapruder film, what are the sources of the photos of the dark complected man and umbrella man? There have got to be at least slightly better images/better scans of the original films than these small grainy snippets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Aitken Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 7 hours ago, Matt Allison said: I thought one of the witnesses said "dark complected man" was a black man watching the parade. I've seen people comment about the apparent casualness with which he and "umbrella man" reacted, but I would point out that they were no more casual than the numerous photographers running around on the Knoll at the same time. The only people that seemed especially frightened were the Newman's, who had two small children with them, and thus acted like all good parents should. In this photo of the umbrella man I can see some resemblance to Louie Steven Witt. I just can’t buy into Witt’s ridiculous story about using the umbrella to mock Kennedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Aitken Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 4 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said: This is the photo that I remember and was searching for. If you will note, there is a large bulge on the right side and under the jacket, which to me, could be the outline of a pistol. This doesn't appear to be the walkie talkie that he appears to use in other photos. I am curious what others think. There is definitely a bulge under the jacket of DCM but the angle is a little odd for it to be a holster. Could be a shoulder holster that is twisted due to his sitting/crouching stance. In some of the other photos I’ve seen he definitely appears to be talking into a radio and then tucking it into his waistband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Aitken Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Aitken Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 3 hours ago, Mike Aitken said: In this photo of the umbrella man I can see some resemblance to Louie Steven Witt. I just can’t buy into Witt’s ridiculous story about using the umbrella to mock Kennedy. After looking at these photos multiple times, the umbrella man appears to have a more receded hairline. They seem to have the same pompadour, but I’m not sure how in 1978 a man could have a less receded hairline than he did fifteen years earlier. This is just my observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 From the HSCA testimony of Louis Witt: <quote on, emphasis added> Mr. GENZMAN. What did you do when you saw the motorcade coming into the area? Mr. WITT. Well, as I recall, the motorcade had already made the turn and was coming down Elm Street going west on Elm before I became aware it was there, and it would have been from a straightline position off to my left about like this [indicating] when I saw it . Mr. GENZMAN. What did you do when you saw it approaching you? Mr. WITT. I think I got up and started fiddling with that umbrella trying to get it open, and at the same time I was walking forward, walking toward the street. /q> From the HSCA report -- "Possible Gunman on the Grassy Knoll" <quote on, emphasis added> Rosemary Willis...noticed two persons who looked "conspicuous." One was a man near the curb holding an umbrella, who appeared to be more concerned with opening or closing the umbrella than dropping to the ground like everyone else at the time of the shots. <quote off> Free Louis Witt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Simpich Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) Does anyone have any suggestions about photo experts who could analyze the film and photos of these two men? Could anyone post any other photos of Felipe Vidal Santiago and Roy Hargraves? Here are some photos from tangodown63 - occasionally Felipe has a moustache, but often he does not, similar to the DCM. Steve Thomas points out above that Felipe is 6 feet tall, slender build, and receding hair, similar to the DCM I believe. Notice the high brow of the Umbrella Man, more similar to Roy Hargraves than Louis Witt. Does anyone know Felipe's brother Ivan Vidal Santiago - former chief of investigations for Cuba's Maritime Police - another long-time colleague of Hargraves? Ivan is described in the documents as a CIA agent spying on JURE/AMBANG during 1963. Dallas is reported in 1963 as the headquarters of one of JURE's three major groups, and the biggest one in the continental US (the others were in San Juan, Puerto Rico and Caracas, Venezuela). I think Ivan may still be alive and has engaged with the JFK research community in the past. Could someone ask him or another family member - Do you think the Dark Complected Man is Felipe? Edited June 12 by Bill Simpich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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