The JFK Assassination Records Act Discussion

[Sandy Larsen]

58 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

I think a great candidate would have beaten Trump easily.

 

I think Hillary would have beaten Trump easily had it not been for the Comey October surprise.

 

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Huge fan of Bernie and his beliefs; I think he's been a big part of making Biden the most progressive POTUS in history.

I also don't think he would have won in 2016 for the exact reasons you mention.

Matt,

    Good point about Bernie (and Elizabeth Warren) influencing Biden's Presidency along Progressive lines.

    A prime example is Biden's student loan forgiveness initiatives.

    As for 2016, I recall seeing polls, at the time, showing that Bernie Sanders would have defeated Trump handily in a general November 2016 election.

     Hillary was sabotaged in 2016 by the corporate media, (including NYT) the Kremlin, and, of course, by James Comey and the FBI's Weiner Laptop Hoax.

     The 2017 Harvard Brennan Center and Columbia Journalism Review studies showed that the corporate mainstream media had clearly sabotaged Hillary by running non-stop, front-page stories about the "Email-gate" nothing burger during the weeks before the election.

P.S.  This thread has evolved into an interesting, informative discussion about the 2024 election, but I notice that it has almost nothing to do with the JFK assassination.  Should it be moved to the Political Discussion boards?

Edited yesterday at 12:54 PM by W. Niederhut

[Joe Bauer]

9 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

As much as I like Bernie Sanders, there's no way I would vote for him in a primary. Too many Americans are afraid of socialism.

"Afraid of socialism?"

Our society is inherently socialistic in huge ways...and must be to keep half our population from falling to the extreme poverty wayside completely.

SL, with very due respect...I disagree with your postulation that "Americans are afraid of socialism."

Social Security is a purely socialistic program. 72 million Americans are receiving SS checks every month from it. The majority of them depend on it for their main income!

Almost all the well-off people recipients of Social Security who say the Democrats are too boogie man socialistic don't send back their socialism SS checks. They cash them and keep the funds like everyone else. They don't send them back to protest this awful socialistic evil.

Medicare same thing. Totally socialistic program. 1/4th of adult Americans take full advantage of it's benefits. Including our higher income retirees.

How many Trump supporters who mouth the Republican party "socialistic" fear line are on food stamps? Free medical care? Tens of millions! Purely socialistic programs.

Public schools are socialistic in their funding and availability and use to anyone despite income.

Every modern nation/society on Earth is a form of a Democratic/Socialistic hybrid construct.

Japan, France, England, every Nordic country, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany and on and on have national health care and many other social programs in their daily lives. Government pensions. Many have free higher education policies. Vacation, sick leave, elder care same thing ... guaranteed.

Even Russia is not totally socialistic.

The truth is no country on Earth is totally capitalistic/free market system only.

Ever hear of tax breaks for the rich? How about massive bailouts for the rich when their pyramid schemes collapse like the Bush bank fraud/housing value collapse in 2007!

Billions in bailouts to Wall Street? Pure Socialism for the most wealthy. But THAT kind of socialism is okay?

There must be a mix of socialist governing policy along with free market only in today's real world. We all know this.

These mixed construct societies demand their governments provide them with these social benefits as a return on their tax payments to them their entire working lives. 

The term "socialist" has for 50 years been purposely turned into a "Boogie Man" one by the Repub/wealthy class when in reality every nation is hugely socialistic.

Right wing American radio has been the biggest pusher of this " Socialist/Boogie Man" false reality fear exaggeration brain washing.

Rush Limbaugh and his huge number of right-wing propaganda spreading spawn have been spreading this exaggerated fear claim for 50 years!

Democrats/liberals are ... grab your guns...socialists!

Orson Wells "War Of The Worlds" panic in the streets type stuff.

50 million Americans listen to this crazy, exaggerated fear and hate mongering extreme right wing talk radio cow dung.

50 million radio listeners have been indoctrinated with these exaggerated twisted fear lies 24/7 for 50 years!

The end game has been to link the words "Democrats / Liberals" with planted mental fear images such as commies, queers, drug users, socialist, minority racial and illegal immigration and crime coddling, cop hating "Vermin" as their fearless leader has labeled them.

We are a socialistic society like every other country on Earth. To say some democrats are afraid of socialism is a total oxymoron.

How many democrats who you say fear socialism would be willing to give up their pure socialistic Social Security checks, their Medicare coverage, their food stamps, etc.?

America, even the top 10% most wealthy take full advantage of these socialistic programs. And their own socialistic tax cuts?

However, a large majority of them too often want to cut these programs for the "little people" ( us middle and lower income classes ) as archetypal Republican value icon Leona Helmsley famously called us.

For anyone who says they fear socialism in this country I say ...okay, give up any form of government assistance programs they take advantage of themselves.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Joe Bauer

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

As much as I like Bernie Sanders, there's no way I would vote for him in a primary. Too many Americans are afraid of socialism.

 

Sandy,

     As a Social Democrat, I resemble that remark.

     Brewer & Shipley wrote a song about this subject back in 1970, with a killer pedal steel accompaniment by Jerry Garcia.

     They confused the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence, but it's still a great song.

     What I would really like to know is who borrowed my old vinyl 1970 Tarkio album and never returned it.  🤥

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/2/2024 at 12:50 AM, Cliff Varnell said:

Sounds fine to me.

 

Great speech.  Thanks for sharing, Cliff.

[Sandy Larsen]

22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

On 7/4/2024 at 2:10 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

As much as I like Bernie Sanders, there's no way I would vote for him in a primary. Too many Americans are afraid of socialism.

22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

"Afraid of socialism?"

Our society is inherently socialistic in huge ways...and must be to keep half our population from falling to the extreme poverty wayside completely.

 

Joe,

Yes, of course there is a great deal of socialism in America. Thanks primarily due to Democrats. But socialism is a dirty word for Republicans. A lot of Republicans are still trying to get rid of well established, successful, and popular socialist programs like social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. And now add to that Obamacare.

If Bernie Sanders were to run for president, his self-proclaimed position as a socialist would be used against him big time by the Republicans. A lot of swing voters would be influenced by that negativity.

A lot of people who like Social Security and Medicare are unaware that these are socialist programs.

I'm astonished that you are unaware of American bias against socialism. Maybe you should live in a red state for a while.

In 2019, 59% of Americans said they had a unfavorable view of socialism.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sandy Larsen

[Bill Fite]

15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Brewer & Shipley wrote a song about this subject back in 1970, with a killer pedal steel accompaniment by Jerry Garcia.

I had the pleasure of seeing An Evening w the Grateful Dead in the spring of 1971 in a theatre w  fabulous acoustics.

Jerry played a 90 minute set on pedal steel with New Riders of the Purple Sage to open.   It was all killer pedal steel on some great tunes that nobody had heard from their first album that hadn't been released that it still one of my favorites.

Then the Dead (w Pigpen - Hart - other keyboards) played an incredible 2 hour or so set w another lot of songs & covers that hadn't been released after which Garcia strode up to the mic and said - 'We're gonna take a 20 minute break and then come back for the second set'.

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

I had the pleasure of seeing An Evening w the Grateful Dead in the spring of 1971 in a theatre w  fabulous acoustics.

Jerry played a 90 minute set on pedal steel with New Riders of the Purple Sage to open.   It was all killer pedal steel on some great tunes that nobody had heard from their first album that hadn't been released that it still one of my favorites.

Then the Dead (w Pigpen - Hart - other keyboards) played an incredible 2 hour or so set w another lot of songs & covers that hadn't been released after which Garcia strode up to the mic and said - 'We're gonna take a 20 minute break and then come back for the second set'.

 

Bill,

    I regret never attending a Dead concert, but I still listen to their albums often-- especially American Beauty, Workingman's Dead, and my personal favorite, From Mars Hotel.    Garcia preferred their live recordings, but I'm crazy about the three studio albums (above.)

 

Sandy,

     CATO Institute is a Koch-funded right wing propaganda stink tank.

     Certainly, American plutocrats have invested heavily in propaganda denigrating "socialism" for decades, and their indoctrination of the masses has been effective.  It's one reason why Americans today are largely unaware that our middle class has fallen far behind the middle classes of the Social Democracies in Western Europe on most indices of prosperity.

      Propaganda works.

      

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

A lot of people who like Social Security and Medicare are unaware that these are socialist programs.

In 2019, 59% of Americans said they had a unfavorable view of socialism.

Sandy, your two post propositions above are exactly my point!

How could any decently educated and informed American who benefits from Social Security and Medicare and or state and county medical care aid and food stamps and section 8 housing and SNAP and public schools and free lunch programs and so many other public services NOT know these are pure socialistic programs?

How could they be so ignorant of this simple to understand fact?

And if any of these benefited people, who don't even know that these programs are socialistic, say they are afraid of socialism or think a more capitalistic system is better than the one we have and that they are taking full advantage of...what does that tell you about the credibility of their informed intelligence and the polls you cite? 

I believe that millions of Americans have been brainwashed into falling for this false premise exaggerated fear propaganda pounded into their consciousness, and the social consciousness at large, for the last 40+ years via massive right-wing radio and right-wing media like Fox News, etc., incessantly promoting that socialism is a terrifying boogie man thing and Democrats and liberals are the promoting agents of this scary evil.

I explained the reality of socialism being a part of every modern nation societal construct. That there has to be a balance of a free market only system with a socialistic one. 

Too many American citizens have been worked up into this "socialism" boogie man fear mind set by a huge and hugely financed exaggerated fear mongering manipulation machine of right-wing propaganda as I have described. 

Who again, have successfully imbued into their target subject's consciousness this wide-eyed scary fear link of the terms "democrat/liberal" with the socialist monster one. In the minds of these manipulated people they are one and the same.

An all inclusive national health care system in America has been successfully defeated time and time again using this exaggerated socialism fear tactic.

America is the only industrialized country on Earth that does not have a full access national health care system.

And understand this fact. In the last 50 years America has fallen way down the list of world health care standards for health care and so many other societal health and welfare standards.

Who in this country is fine with that decline?

The minority wealthy right wing and corporate lobbies ( Wall Street ) who benefit hugely by keeping our country on a free market/class system of health care access...that's who.

And their greatest fear threats and enemies are the likes of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

Yes, much of what is being posted here is not purely JFKA Research and Debate centered...but in social conscious spirit it is definitely JFK and RFK connected...imo anyways.

And it has been removed to it's own forum space that any orthodox forum member can avoid completely. And in these highly unusual stressed political times since the beginning of the Earth shaking Corona Virus, it is a bonus in giving many of us current events concerned forum members just a little extra incentive in keeping connected to the main forum board. 

I don't post anything that isn't strictly JFKA related on the main forum. I believe in the integrity of keeping that sacrosanctity in place there.

Like the record post response thread that Joseph McBride started several years ago and that was finally moved due to it's kind of devolving into a scattered subject free-for-all, it had to be. Yet, I enjoyed the thread while it was there.

If this side forum is removed, well ... again I'll miss it ... but so be it. The main forum will always be my main interest.

 

 

 

 

Edited 36 minutes ago by Joe Bauer

[Tom Gram]

9 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Garcia preferred their live recordings, but I'm crazy about the three studio albums (above.)

The best live albums released while Jerry was alive are probably Live/Dead, One from the Vault and Reckoning, but since then there have been literally hundreds. Filmore West ‘69, Dick’s Picks 18, and Dick’s Picks 12 are a few favorites. I think almost all of their live albums are available on Spotify minus the more recent Dave’s Picks series. 

If you haven’t dug into their massive live catalog though - do it. Just about every show they every played is available in its entirety for free on archive.org. They have some solid studio albums, but the live stuff is on a totally different level, IMO. Garcia was right.

Here are a couple of my favorite shows that are relatively ‘accessible’ : 

https://archive.org/details/gd1974-06-23.sbd.matrix-sb21b.chappell.83489.flac16

https://archive.org/details/gd1977-06-09.28614.sbeok.flac16

Also, if you haven’t seen the Long Strange Trip documentary on Prime Video, I highly recommend it. 

Yes, I am a full-blown deadhead.

Alright back to politics… 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I assumed Sandy wasn't railing against Socialism per se as the public perception of Socialism, which we have been conditioned from Corporate America since the 50's, is a terrible no no. But I've heard that young people are embracing the concepts of Socialism much more than previous generations.

I do lament that Bernie has called himself a Socialist and to a lesser extent, has run as in independent. I assume that started long ago when he probably thought he wouldn't have had a ghost of a prayer of ever being President.

Despite what I earlier said. I don't think it's impossible for someone of Bernie's beliefs to become President. His message was simple Medicare and free education for all. Which is really just New Deal Democrat extension stuff. You don't have to call it Socialism.

I think his time has passed. But I think the time when that message could easily get through would be during another financial crisis like 2008.

The first resident to call for Universal Health Care was not JFK. It was Harry Truman.

[Joe Bauer]

A free hand sketch I did of Jerry Garcia in 1997 from a book photo. 

 

Edited 8 minutes ago by Joe Bauer