The JFK Assassination Records Act Discussion

[W. Niederhut]

Kirk,

    Here are some 2020 Democratic primary tallies.   The final bandwagon/delegate tallies don't reflect the pre-Bloomberg/pre-Super Tuesday dominance of the Progressives.

    If you recall, the Progressives crushed Biden in the early primaries.

    Biden later did well in the Southern GOP states, then there was a bandwagon effect for Biden after Super Tuesday.

 

Iowa:  Bernie 26%    Buttigieg 25%    Warren 20%    Biden 14%               Progressives 71%  Biden 14%

New Hampshire:  Bernie 26%   Buttigieg 24%  Warren 9%  Biden 8%     Progressives 59%  Biden 8%

Nevada:  Bernie 40%   Buttigieg 17%   Warren  12%   Biden 19%              Progressives 69%  Biden 19%

California:  Bernie 36%   Warren 13%   Biden 28%                                    Progressives  49%   Biden 28%

Colorado:  Bernie 37%    Warren 18%    Biden 25%                                   Progressives 55%   Biden 25%

Maine:    Bernie 32%    Warren 16%    Biden  33%                                     Progressives 48%   Biden 33%

Massachusetts:   Bernie 27%    Warren 21%    Biden 33%                       Progressives 48%   Biden 33%

[Kirk Gallaway]

No, I remember that well.  I was in Ecuador and I woke up, turned on the tube, and I saw the CNN panel relieved at the results of Super Tuesday and I was pissed!

That's why I hate picking this apart.

You've made a good case for half, but.... 

1)Only Bernie and Warren are progressives. Not Butigieg, Iowa is 46%', NH 35%, Nevada 52%,( What's happened to Biden in Nevada now?) but I digress.

2)These are not representative states of the nation as a whole. There's not a battleground state here except puny Nevada.Almost half the states are New England states where Bernie VT. and Warren Mass, come from. These are the classic progressive states the Dems can almost always count on in the general election. Because where else would they go?

3)The wonkiest votes are in the primary. There are a much higher percentage of progressives voting in primaries, than in the general election. It's the moderates they are trying to score in the general election.

4)Outside of Iowa, Biden ended up winning all these states. The Democrats knew they had all those states in the bag  anyway.

5.) It was the other 20%, Klobuchar, and Buttigieg,and who else folded when they knew it was hopeless? They represent the key votes the Democratic Party was going after. Being centrists Buttigieg and Klobuchar would have preferred Biden, but they both thought Biden had the best chance anyway. As I recall, didn't Warren also fold that night? They always knew they had that in the bag and took it for granted.

It's a numbers game. That's why Bernie didn't really raise a stink when they lowered the boom on him. I'd like to see all the primary totals at the end.

Definitely impressed with Colorado!

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 06:01 AM by Kirk Gallaway

[Matt Allison]

Anyone that wonders how things would go for a female Presidential candidate need only look back to Hillary in 2016.

Sadly, when it comes to the average white guy vote, very little has changed since then. 

[Joe Bauer]

You'll remember that Warren and Bernie were eating Biden up in the 2020 primary debates. High energy, passion, clear speaking with much more specific agendas.

Biden did just awful. Low energy, much less specific policy plans, etc.

Warren and Bernie combined were just killing Biden in those debates.

Their combined poll numbers were two times higher than Biden.

That's when Bloomberg jumped in and spent 1 BILLION dollars for a two and 1/2 month long primary campaign run.

1 BILLION was a crazy high record amount by any primary candidate ever... and again, he just stayed in the race for 2 and 1/2 months?

It didn't make sense. The most votes Bloomberg got was 10% in any race. 

I believe Bloomberg got in to help takes votes from Warren and Sanders. He considered them bigger threats to Wall Street.

As soon as Warren and Sanders were numerically eliminated from the race...Bloomberg dropped his campaign.

Biden was no threat to Wall Street and Donald Trump was no threat to Wall Street either. 

And I also believe that certain large black vote states made a deal with Biden. You give us a black woman vice president and we'll swing our voters to you. That's exactly what they did.

Warren and Sanders got whacked out of the park by those states and on Super Tuesday.

I don't think Warren and Sanders were rejected by less progressive Democrats because they had been labeled as such. Heck, what you are saying is that the Democratic party majority doesn't like progressives?

I believe the Democratic party has always been more progressive than Centrist.

Progressivism is the true heart of the Democratic party imo.

If it isn't...they aren't much different ideologically than the Republicans who equate progressives on the same level as commies and queers.

Biden has always been much more a Wall Street person than not. They consider him one of theirs imo. Bloomberg was happy when Biden got the nomination.

I never recalled Biden saying anything negative or taking on Wall Street as Warren and Sanders did and still do.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Joe Bauer

[Bill Fite]

10 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Do you think that kind of circus, "we're not organized or united" type of behavior inspires confidence among swing voters? Undecideds and conservatives looking for a reason to vote Dem? IMO it does not.

The collage of the BS headlines from 2016 about Hillary is meant to show you can't always trust the media's motives.

Hillary's health was and is perfectly fine, and the only thing that bedwetting accomplished was to hurt her candidacy.

The nomination of Hillary Clinton for president gave undecideds and swing voters enough reason not to vote D.

She was an awful candidate.

That the Democratic Party was blind and still blind to it is their problem.

[Bill Fite]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

    Here are some 2020 Democratic primary tallies.   The final bandwagon/delegate tallies don't reflect the pre-Bloomberg/pre-Super Tuesday dominance of the Progressives.

    If you recall, the Progressives crushed Biden in the early primaries.

    Biden later did well in the Southern GOP states, then there was a bandwagon effect for Biden after Super Tuesday.

 

Iowa:  Bernie 26%    Buttigieg 25%    Warren 20%    Biden 14%               Progressives 71%  Biden 14%

New Hampshire:  Bernie 26%   Buttigieg 24%  Warren 9%  Biden 8%     Progressives 59%  Biden 8%

Nevada:  Bernie 40%   Buttigieg 17%   Warren  12%   Biden 19%              Progressives 69%  Biden 19%

California:  Bernie 36%   Warren 13%   Biden 28%                                    Progressives  49%   Biden 28%

Colorado:  Bernie 37%    Warren 18%    Biden 25%                                   Progressives 55%   Biden 25%

Maine:    Bernie 32%    Warren 16%    Biden  33%                                     Progressives 48%   Biden 33%

Massachusetts:   Bernie 27%    Warren 21%    Biden 33%                       Progressives 48%   Biden 33%

+1

[Matt Allison]

2 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

She was an awful candidate.

Hillary Clinton was far and away the most qualified person to run for President that year.

She was right about everything she said during that campaign, and history has proven such.

Misogyny is real and a cancer all over the world, and the U.S. is no exception.

[Bill Fite]

30 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Hillary Clinton was far and away the most qualified person to run for President that year.

She was right about everything she said during that campaign, and history has proven such.

Misogyny is real and a cancer all over the world, and the U.S. is no exception.

Misogyny might be real - but that doesn't change the fact that she was such an awful candidate and an inept campaigner that she lost to Donald Trump.   

 

[Sandy Larsen]

25 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Hillary Clinton was far and away the most qualified person to run for President that year.

 

Yep, and she would have won had it not been for Comey's October Surprise, in spite of American misogyny. She won the popular vote by 3 million, didn't she?

As much as I like Bernie Sanders, there's no way I would vote for him in a primary. Too many Americans are afraid of socialism.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

2 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

Misogyny might be real - but that doesn't change the fact that she was such an awful candidate and an inept campaigner that she lost to Donald Trump.  

 

I thought she was a great candidate.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

On 7/2/2024 at 3:00 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

The post-debate backlash against Biden appears to be fading.

Or not.  Recent NY Times, CBS, and Wall St. Journal polls show Trump leads outside the margin of error.

Over the next week or maybe two Biden needs to come across like Bryan Cranston ("I am the one who knocks.")

[Matt Allison]

6 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

As much as I like Bernie Sanders, there's no way I would vote for him in a primary. Too many Americans are afraid of socialism.

Huge fan of Bernie and his beliefs; I think he's been a big part of making Biden the most progressive POTUS in history.

I also don't think he would have won in 2016 for the exact reasons you mention.

[Matt Allison]

3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Or not.  Recent NY Times, CBS, and Wall St. Journal polls show Trump leads outside the margin of error.

hmm, I thought the CBS poll showed it a wash

Reuters Ipso shows gains for Biden:

 

Caveat: I think the polls are nonsense this year and vastly overestimate Trump's percentages.

While no one is "excited" by Biden, Trump is universally loathed outside his cult. Never seen an American as unpopular as him in my lifetime, outside of Nixon.

[Cliff Varnell]

12 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

hmm, I thought the CBS poll showed it a wash

Reuters Ipso shows gains for Biden:

 

Caveat: I think the polls are nonsense this year and vastly overestimate Trump's percentages.

While no one is "excited" by Biden, Trump is universally loathed outside his cult. Never seen an American as unpopular as him in my lifetime, outside of Nixon.

My bad. CNN.

[Bill Fite]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I thought she was a great candidate.

 

I think a great candidate would have beaten Trump easily.