Vote Trump for JFKA info?

[Benjamin Cole]

27 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

That does sound like a really good book although as a ten year plus school board member and still very much involved with education in Okla I've seen a lot of it way too close for comfort.

The good news is that I'm off the hook on the book for the moment with the manuscript ready to go so I do have some free time....I was thinking something more uplifting though, maybe like rereading my collection of Walt Kelly's Pogo cartoons...now there was a man with some pretty cutting insight on politics and campaigns - I Go Pogo...

Agreed.

Back when I had physical books, I had the actual cartoon that was captioned, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." 

[Larry Hancock]

That is cool, I have a pretty complete collection of his cartoons in hardcover and softcover books plus a framed print and authenticated print of an illustration showing all his characters in the swamp.

Not to mention the original I Go Pogo political campaign cartoon book featuring P T Bridgeport, its a bit worse for wear  by now but then so am I.

[James DiEugenio]

To make something clear:

What is going up is a republishing of my 2 part series on Harris from when she ran before. 

There will only be a brief new introduction to it. 

As per balance, I guess Larry does not read K and K very much.   How anyone can say that we have not attacked Trump over the JFK Act is really mystifying.  (But that's OK Larry, I do not take these things personally, as I am used to it.)

But did anyone say anything during the last six weeks about what Harris did on the RFK case?  I don't recall it if it happened.  I don't even think RFK Jr. did.

[Greg Doudna]

2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I have not read that work but having been around long enough to have observed the evolution of the racist ultra right and its states rights effort (the National States Right Party) into something far different but much more effective it was obvious that things were going.  You could see early indications of it with the Hunt empire and how it branched into media control. But that was only a small foretaste of what the really big guys were willing to so.

I kind of lost track of what was going on  until I began hearing everyday people start talking about what was really important in politics being to 'win' back the Supreme Court - that made it all perfectly clear. 

When I was growing up we were taught that separation of powers was good, the nations founders understood the risk of total control by any one faction or any single leader was to be avoided.  The same party that endorsed that sort of thinking (yeah, I did go to YAF meetings) now has a very different view.

There are such parallels between the political phenomenon and movement of Trump today, and that around General Edwin Walker of the Kennedy era. The right-wing populism, the national militia groups, the language of internal subversives, the demonization of democrats and liberals as wishing to destroy the country and its constitution, incitement of insurrection against federal authorities leading to rioting and deaths defended by conservatives across the land, in Walker's case in Oxford, Mississippi in Oct 1962.

General Edwin Walker was the major cause celebre figure of the populist right of the early 1960s, opponent of the United Nations and all other internationalism, hater of the Democratic president (the Kennedys), support ranging from mainstream conservatives to the most rabidly violent, white supremacist, organized right-wing extremist groups of America such as the Minutemen who extolled and adored Walker as their hero and leader.

There was an FBI investigation in 1964 into reports that the Walker-Minutemen organized militia groups were preparing violently to resist and overthrow the outcome of the presidential election in 1964 if Johnson, the Democrat, won. The FBI dropped the investigation concluding no substantial evidence for an actual nationwide plot was found as opposed to some wishful thinkings; the documents including the informant reports can be seen on the Mary Ferrell Foundation site. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Greg Doudna

[Paul Brancato]

24 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

There are such parallels between the political phenomenon and movement of Trump today, and that around General Edwin Walker of the Kennedy era. Its all there--the right-wing populism, the national militia groups, the language of internal subversives, the demonization of Democrats as wishing to destroy the country and its constitution, incitement of insurrection against federal authorities leading to rioting and deaths defended by conservatives across the land, in Walker's case in Oxford, Mississippi in Oct 1962.

General Edwin Walker was the major cause celebre figure of the populist right of the early 1960s, opponent of the United Nations and all other internationalism, hater of the Democratic president (the Kennedys), support ranging from mainstream conservatives to the most rabidly violent, white supremacist, organized right-wing extremist groups of America such as the Minutemen who extolled and adored Walker as their hero and leader.

There was an FBI investigation in 1964 into reports that the Walker-Minutemen organized militia groups were preparing violently to resist and overthrow the outcome of the presidential election in 1964 if Johnson, the Democrat, won. The FBI dropped the investigation concluding no substantial evidence for an actual nationwide plot was found as opposed to some wishful thinkings; the documents including the informant reports can be seen on the Mary Ferrell Foundation site. 

 

 

 

 

I agree that this is the proper context in which to view today’s Republican movement, the genesis of it. Having said that, I still think we make a mistake when we conflate the voting public who support Trump and the broader Republican agenda with the Koch brothers and their ilk who are funding this turn to the right. The constituency is broad, and some of it is certainly racist, homophobic, anti - Semitic, Christian fundamentalist. But there’s a huge swath of the public that is reeling from the long term effects of Capitalist driven globalism designed to make the rich richer still. If trickle down economics resulted in a river of support for the working class in their daily lives  I’d be all for it. But instead what we see is a continuous attack on them, denying them adequate education, health care, housing, jobs. That’s the fodder that puts the current Republican Party on equal footing with the multi cultural Democratic Party. And to blame these less privileged citizens, to demonize them for supporting Trump, misses the essential point that they have been grievously injured by these long standing policies of favoritism for the rich. It doesn’t matter who caused it, it matters how they feel about it. Today’s Democratic Party is not their hero, despite the rhetoric. 
Globalism didn’t have to be so devastating. It’s a good idea in theory. But who benefits? Cheap goods from overseas doesn’t mitigate the loss of quality of life. 

[Greg Doudna]

20 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I agree that this is the proper context in which to view today’s Republican movement, the genesis of it. Having said that, I still think we make a mistake when we conflate the voting public who support Trump and the broader Republican agenda with the Koch brothers and their ilk who are funding this turn to the right. The constituency is broad, and some of it is certainly racist, homophobic, anti - Semitic, Christian fundamentalist. But there’s a huge swath of the public that is reeling from the long term effects of Capitalist driven globalism designed to make the rich richer still. If trickle down economics resulted in a river of support for the working class in their daily lives  I’d be all for it. But instead what we see is a continuous attack on them, denying them adequate education, health care, housing, jobs. That’s the fodder that puts the current Republican Party on equal footing with the multi cultural Democratic Party. And to blame these less privileged citizens, to demonize them for supporting Trump, misses the essential point that they have been grievously injured by these long standing policies of favoritism for the rich. It doesn’t matter who caused it, it matters how they feel about it. Today’s Democratic Party is not their hero, despite the rhetoric. 
Globalism didn’t have to be so devastating. It’s a good idea in theory. But who benefits? Cheap goods from overseas doesn’t mitigate the loss of quality of life. 

Paul, yes there are different reasons why people vote for one or the other of the major parties, both parties are basically big tents of constituencies. My reason for being a Democrat is because that is where Bernie is, and I don't see Bernies in the Republican Party, i.e. not all Democrats are good, but the good ones are Democrats. And in a two-party system, or one-party systems in countries where that is the case, one just caucuses within one of the major parties. As a Bernie democrat (vision of America to go careening ALL the way to as far left as CANADA on policy issues!), who would I caucus with inside the Republican or MAGA tent? Nobody.

How did the Democratic Party lose the white working-class vote? To this day I do not fully understand it.

How did white working class in the south end up against the blacks instead of on the blacks' side in the Jim Crow era? I do not fully understand that either. (What did the blacks ever do to them? Not rational.)

Similar questions, and when I say I do not fully understand, that is not rhetorical, that is honest. 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Greg Doudna

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

How did white working class in the south end up against the blacks instead of on the blacks' side in the Jim Crow era? I do not fully understand that either. (What did the blacks ever do to them? Not rational.)

IMO, it's difficult to think of anything that has been more of a drag on America than its stubborn racism, simply because it has been used by Republicans to gain office, and then continue to screw everyone except for the wealthy. This has been happening for so long now that we are on the cusp of turning into a nation of oligarchs. That's why you see people like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel so desperate to get Trump back in office; they have had a taste of power and they do not want to lose any of it.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

That is cool, I have a pretty complete collection of his cartoons in hardcover and softcover books plus a framed print and authenticated print of an illustration showing all his characters in the swamp.

Not to mention the original I Go Pogo political campaign cartoon book featuring P T Bridgeport, its a bit worse for wear  by now but then so am I.

Well, you have easily topped me in the Pogo department! I am envious! 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

To make something clear:

What is going up is a republishing of my 2 part series on Harris from when she ran before. 

There will only be a brief new introduction to it. 

As per balance, I guess Larry does not read K and K very much.   How anyone can say that we have not attacked Trump over the JFK Act is really mystifying.  (But that's OK Larry, I do not take these things personally, as I am used to it.)

But did anyone say anything during the last six weeks about what Harris did on the RFK case?  I don't recall it if it happened.  I don't even think RFK Jr. did.

JD-

I have been reading and admiring your work for years, decades. 

I think we can safely say JD is no right-winger, or Trump supporter. 

I happen to disagree with JD on some issues, and the interpretation of few events. So what? 

A forum is for expressing and tolerating various viewpoints.

I agree that moderators should remove from EF-JFKA comments from racists and anti-Semitic crackpots. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

I agree that this is the proper context in which to view today’s Republican movement, the genesis of it. Having said that, I still think we make a mistake when we conflate the voting public who support Trump and the broader Republican agenda with the Koch brothers and their ilk who are funding this turn to the right. The constituency is broad, and some of it is certainly racist, homophobic, anti - Semitic, Christian fundamentalist. But there’s a huge swath of the public that is reeling from the long term effects of Capitalist driven globalism designed to make the rich richer still. If trickle down economics resulted in a river of support for the working class in their daily lives  I’d be all for it. But instead what we see is a continuous attack on them, denying them adequate education, health care, housing, jobs. That’s the fodder that puts the current Republican Party on equal footing with the multi cultural Democratic Party. And to blame these less privileged citizens, to demonize them for supporting Trump, misses the essential point that they have been grievously injured by these long standing policies of favoritism for the rich. It doesn’t matter who caused it, it matters how they feel about it. Today’s Democratic Party is not their hero, despite the rhetoric. 
Globalism didn’t have to be so devastating. It’s a good idea in theory. But who benefits? Cheap goods from overseas doesn’t mitigate the loss of quality of life. 

PB-

"But there’s a huge swath of the public that is reeling from the long term effects of Capitalist driven globalism designed to make the rich richer still. If trickle down economics resulted in a river of support for the working class in their daily lives  I’d be all for it. But instead what we see is a continuous attack on them, denying them adequate education, health care, housing, jobs. That’s the fodder that puts the current Republican Party on equal footing with the multi cultural Democratic Party. And to blame these less privileged citizens, to demonize them for supporting Trump, misses the essential point that they have been grievously injured by these long standing policies of favoritism for the rich."

I have long admired your collegial demeanor in these pages, and I see we agree on the big issues, as you express above. 

The book "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Michael Pettis is excellent reading, for anyone interested above and beyond the usual partisan tropes. 

No doubt there are racist elements in right-wing circles, and a rising tide of anti-Semitic crackpots in the American left. I loath such elements. 

 

[Paul Rigby]

3 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I agree that this is the proper context in which to view today’s Republican movement, the genesis of it. Having said that, I still think we make a mistake when we conflate the voting public who support Trump and the broader Republican agenda with the Koch brothers and their ilk who are funding this turn to the right. The constituency is broad, and some of it is certainly racist, homophobic, anti - Semitic, Christian fundamentalist. But there’s a huge swath of the public that is reeling from the long term effects of Capitalist driven globalism designed to make the rich richer still. If trickle down economics resulted in a river of support for the working class in their daily lives  I’d be all for it. But instead what we see is a continuous attack on them, denying them adequate education, health care, housing, jobs. That’s the fodder that puts the current Republican Party on equal footing with the multi cultural Democratic Party. And to blame these less privileged citizens, to demonize them for supporting Trump, misses the essential point that they have been grievously injured by these long standing policies of favoritism for the rich. It doesn’t matter who caused it, it matters how they feel about it. Today’s Democratic Party is not their hero, despite the rhetoric. 
Globalism didn’t have to be so devastating. It’s a good idea in theory. But who benefits? Cheap goods from overseas doesn’t mitigate the loss of quality of life. 

At last, someone who gets it. Democrats could always try something novel, like, I don't know, listening to working-class Americans. And perhaps, God forbid, mixing with them now and again:

 

[Paul Rigby]

How Democrats Make Republicans: RFK Should Be A Wake Up Call For The Party

by Tyler Durden

Sunday, Aug 25, 2024 - 03:30 PM

Authored by Jonathan Turley,

The withdrawal of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from the presidential race and his endorsement of former President Donald Trump was yet another extraordinary moment in an election that has been anything but predictable.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/how-democrats-make-republicans-rfk-should-be-wake-call-party

Only a year ago, it would have been unthinkable that a sitting president would be effectively forced off a ticket and replaced by a candidate who did not secure a single vote for president.

Now, the nephew of John F. Kennedy and son of the Robert F. Kennedy has not just withdrawn from the Democratic Party but endorsed the Republican nominee.

Amidst all of the claimed “joy” of the Democratic National Convention, there is a sobering reality that is being ignored by the ecstatic press and pundits: this is how Democrats make Republicans.

There is an old expression that “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.”

Irving Kristol explained the neoconservative movement was built by Democrats “mugged by reality.”

Kennedy has not become a Republican but rather joined the roughly half of Americans now identifying as independents. While this country is solidly under the hold of a duopoly of power in the two main parties, only 25% of the country identify as Democrats, and 25% as Republicans.

Kennedy’s departure from the Democrats has been mocked in the press. However, when he spoke on his withdrawal, many of us who have been lifetime members of the party identified with his remarks.

I come from a politically active liberal Democratic family in Chicago.

I spent much of my life working for liberals since I first came to Washington as a Democratic House page in the 1970s. I did stints on the Hill or on campaigns with Democrats ranging from Rep. Sid Yates (Ill.) to Sen. William Proxmire (Wis.) to Mo Udall (Arz.). I even worked on the campaign and ran for delegate for RFK Jr.’s uncle, Sen. Ted Kennedy.

Then the party changed.

Where once they defended free speech, Democrats have rallied behind censorship and blacklisting of those with opposing views. They have sought to block dozens of Republicans from ballots, including former President Trump. To make matters worse, they have done so in the supposed name of democracy.

Those actions were raised by Kennedy in his powerful and poignant withdrawal speech. He detailed how the Democratic party moved to stop him from running against President Biden in the primary, including efforts to block him from ballots. It was an ironic moment. After harassing candidates like RFK and Minnesota Rep. Dean Phillips, the Democratic leadership then simply installed their choice at the convention in an unprecedented bait-and-switch.

There could have been a substantive primary that exposed the diminished mental state of Biden and allowed for a democratic choice on the best nominee. Instead, the Democrats prevented such choices from being made and selected a leader with all of the transparency and deliberation of a party Congress in China.

Kennedy said that the Democratic Party has virtually shoved him and other voters into the arms of Donald Trump and the Republican Party.

Kennedy observed that “I began this journey as a Democrat, the party of my father, my uncle, the party which I pledged my own allegiance to long before I was old enough to vote.”

He said that his party was the one that championed free speech, government transparency, and opposed unjust wars. “True to its name, it was the party of democracy.”

He said that the party has turned its back on all of the values that once defined it. For former Democrats like Kennedy, running on “joy” is no substitute for these profound changes in the party.

Indeed, the DNC bordered on the creepy as speaker after speaker sold the idea that, if voters could just swallow the Harris candidacy, they would immediately experience joy like some political prozac commercial.

It is not clear whether the red pill/blue pill pitch will be enough, or whether Kennedy’s endorsement will turn the critical votes in swing states.

However, the DNC showed how Democrats make Republicans. The unrelenting identity politics and claims of defending democracy (while opposing democratic choice) only reaffirmed for many that there is no longer a big tent in the party of Roosevelt and Kennedy.

There is a serious question whether John F. Kennedy would recognize or support the current Democratic Party. It now rejects many of his core, mainstream values.

His nephew highlighted the irony of how the party not only worked to block the ability of opponents to challenge President Biden but worked to “conceal the cognitive decline of the sitting president.”

Even the Washington Post recently admitted that “the 81-year-old had shown signs of slipping for a long time, but his inner circle worked to conceal his decline.”

However, the Post failed to note that Vice President Kamala Harris was part of that inner circle. Indeed, she has been touting her close work with Biden in her campaign.

There is little recognition that, if true, it means that Harris, the White House, and leading Democrats lied to the public about Biden’s mental decline for their own political interests.

For Kennedy, it was all too much “and, most sadly … in the name of saving Democracy, the Democratic Party set itself to dismantling it, lacking confidence in its candidate, that its candidate could win in a fair election at the voting booth.”

There is little “joy” in that.

*  *  *

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. He is the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage” (Simon & Schuster).

[Larry Hancock]

Given where this thread has gone I'm just posting to respond to Jim.

My point was simply balance and timing - with the short time to run up to the election I would consider it fair to post or re-post articles about both Harris and Trump on K and K, not just Harris.  That was my only point.

And yes I absolutely do read K and K routinely and even cite it at points in my upcoming book on Oswald - I actually try to read posts across the board from all parties and books from all orientations as I pick up useful information from almost all sources.  I make no pretense of not being biased myself but try to avoid putting myself into a silo of any sort although that never seems to get easier.

[W. Niederhut]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh, wait a minute.  I did say it.  Last night...

The 2024 election is a no brainer.   

P.S.  Has Paul Rigby figured out yet that Donald Trump recently promised to cut even more taxes for his billionaire base, and also told Big Oil moguls that he would sabotage clean energy and climate change mitigation, for cash? 🤓

Why Are GOP Trump Critics Not Endorsing Harris?

August 25, 2024 at 11:16 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 

Tim Miller: “So puzzle me this: There are two options for president. On the one hand you have a woman who just presented herself as a mainstream Democrat who plans to respect and uphold the fundamental American political traditions at home and abroad.”

“On the other you have a candidate who you have acknowledged is the most flawed person you have ever encountered, a danger to the country, and an existential threat to our system of government—a convicted criminal, an abuser of women, and a moron. How in God’s name do you justify silence in the face of that choice? This is not a close call!”

“Some of these people might be making calculations about their political futures. If so, that’s utterly craven. But take the morality out of it: It’s also ridiculous. None of these folks have a political future as long as Trump is around.”

 

[Paul Brancato]

4 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Paul, yes there are different reasons why people vote for one or the other of the major parties, both parties are basically big tents of constituencies. My reason for being a Democrat is because that is where Bernie is, and I don't see Bernies in the Republican Party, i.e. not all Democrats are good, but the good ones are Democrats. And in a two-party system, or one-party systems in countries where that is the case, one just caucuses within one of the major parties. As a Bernie democrat (vision of America to go careening ALL the way to as far left as CANADA on policy issues!), who would I caucus with inside the Republican or MAGA tent? Nobody.

How did the Democratic Party lose the white working-class vote? To this day I do not fully understand it.

How did white working class in the south end up against the blacks instead of on the blacks' side in the Jim Crow era? I do not fully understand that either. (What did the blacks ever do to them? Not rational.)

Similar questions, and when I say I do not fully understand, that is not rhetorical, that is honest. 

 

I’m also a Bernie democrat. 

 

8 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Paul, yes there are different reasons why people vote for one or the other of the major parties, both parties are basically big tents of constituencies. My reason for being a Democrat is because that is where Bernie is, and I don't see Bernies in the Republican Party, i.e. not all Democrats are good, but the good ones are Democrats. And in a two-party system, or one-party systems in countries where that is the case, one just caucuses within one of the major parties. As a Bernie democrat (vision of America to go careening ALL the way to as far left as CANADA on policy issues!), who would I caucus with inside the Republican or MAGA tent? Nobody.

How did the Democratic Party lose the white working-class vote? To this day I do not fully understand it.

How did white working class in the south end up against the blacks instead of on the blacks' side in the Jim Crow era? I do not fully understand that either. (What did the blacks ever do to them? Not rational.)

Similar questions, and when I say I do not fully understand, that is not rhetorical, that is honest. 

 

I’m a Bernie Democrat too. I think southern whites feared blacks, as they now fear immigrants, would take their jobs. It seems that they harbor resentment towards the political system for abandoning them. I agree completely that there are many good Democrats and few good Republicans. But they often lead desperate lives, which makes it more difficult to make subtle political observations. There is a deep well of anger which Trump taps into.