The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

[Ray Mitcham]

Sandy, have a look at this guy's site.

https://ajmacdonaldjr.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/the-arrival-of-jfks-body-at-bethesda-naval-hospital-what-i-saw/

[Martin Blank]

Paul Trejo,

You have talked with Ruth Paine recently? Today is February 22, 2016.

Paul, may I ask Ruth three questions.

The questions are:

1. Did Ruth take the pictures of June in New Orleans?

End of questions.

Good question, Jon. I'll send Ruth Paine an email right away. I'll let you know the result on this FORUM.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Jon,

Ruth Paine responded to your question on Thu 25 Feb 2016 at 4:24 PM. She wrote:

Hi. I took no photos of Marina in New Orleans.

Paz. Ruth

My question to her implied both Marina and June, and I take it that her reply also implied both Marina and June.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

it implied no such thing

[Paul Trejo]

Well -- let's give John Armstrong the benefit of the doubt -- maybe he's actually done some independent research. I'm looking forward to picking his article apart.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm looking forward to seeing how John gives credit to Ruth (and not Linnie Mae Randle) for suggesting Oswald apply for a job at the TSBD.

Accusing Ruth Paine of placing LHO at the TSBD to be blamed for the murder of JFK has been a favorite pastime of CTers for decades.

There's no way to dissuade the prejudiced, however. The facts from testimony are these:

1. LHO was out of work for the second time in 1963, and his wife was about to have another baby.

2. Marina was embarrassed to be sponging off of Ruth Paine, a new friend, when her husband should be supporting her -- or at the very worst, her husband's own family should be putting her up.

3. But Marina brought this upon herself when back in March, 1963, she began complaining to a friendly person she had only met a week ago, that she was pregnant and LHO was threatening to send her back to the USSR without him.

4. Marina might have known that this would enrage Ruth Paine, and set Ruth on a course of Quaker Charity to "save Marina Oswald" from her lazy, irresponsible husband -- and to keep Marina Oswald in the USA, where she urgently wanted to stay.

5. On 23 April 1963, Ruth went to visit Marina as scheduled, only to find LHO out of work, and planning to go to New Orleans alone -- leaving Marina only a bus ticket and a promise to write her a letter when he got a job and a place to stay. Marina was worried because a normal husband would have at least placed her at his mother's house before leaving the State, leaving her alone with a baby and $10 to her name, not speaking English.

6. So, Ruth Paine -- in Quaker Charity -- offered to keep Marina Oswald at her house for a few days until LHO got on his feet and he could call on the phone instead of writing a letter, and besides that Ruth Paine would drive Marina and June to New Orleans personally. LHO jumped at the offer.

7. Seventeen days later, LHO did call, and Marina was so excited she exclaimed to baby June, "Papa loves us!" She wasn't sure if she was being abandoned or not. Now she believed LHO again. So, Ruth Paine packed them up and drove her two kids, baby June and Marina Oswald to New Orleans.

8. Ruth and Marina continued to exchange letters during the summer. Marina said she was getting along better with LHO now. After Ruth's summer vacation back East, she drove home in late September and stopped off at New Orleans to visit Marina. SHE WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT LHO WAS OUT OF WORK AGAIN.

9. Worse, this time Marina was eight months pregnant and waddling. Plus, Marina had no health insurance. She could literally drop any day.

10. So, again, because of her Quaker Charity, Ruth Paine offered to take Marina Oswald back to Dallas, to register her at Parkland Hospital, so that Marina Oswald could have her new baby in a healthy medical environment. Ruth said that after the childbirth, Marina was welcome to stay at her home through January 1964, as her mother was coming to stay with her in February 1964. Again LHO jumped at the offer.

11. LHO said he was going to Houston to look for work there.

12. LHO packed up their station wagon (without a rifle) and sent them away to Texas on 23 September 1963.

13. On October 7, 1963, LHO appeared at Ruth Paine's doorstep -- STILL WITHOUT A JOB. He was also low on cash, and had checked into a room in Dallas. Marina was EXTREMELY embarrassed.

14. Marina was frantic that LHO was still OUT OF WORK. One day, as the neighborhood mothers were having a coffee gathering, they got to talking about LHO being OUT OF WORK. They talked about how they might help. Linnie Mae Randle was there with perhaps five women. Ruth translated for Marina. One of the things that Ruth brought up was that LHO had no car -- and even if he did, he had little driving experience and no driver's license. Then Linnie Mae said that her teenage brother just got a job at TSBD, and he drives a car. She heard they were hiring.

15. MARINA'S EYES LIT UP. After the meeting, when they got home, Marina Oswald asked Ruth again and again to please call the TSBD about a job. Remember that Ruth Paine liked Marina Oswald a lot. She was good Russian conversation, kind and patient with Ruth's Russian grammar errors, was a hard worker, and called her Auntie Ruth to baby June. Ruth had lots of time for Marina Oswald.

15.1. So, because MARINA WAS INSISTENT, Ruth Paine not only called the TSBD and got Roy Truly, but she gave Roy Truly the hard sell. This was a good Marine, she said, who needed a job because his wife had one baby and the other was on the way. Roy was basically sold, but of course had to see LHO with his own eyes.

16. The next day LHO applied for the job -- he was well-groomed and very polite, very eager and looked like an honorably discharged Marine to Roy Truly. He got the job on the spot. He would report to work in the morning.

17. As we see in WC testimony, on the day that LHO was interviewing with Roy Truly, the TEC was trying to call Ruth to tell her they had a baggage handlers job at the airport. But there was nobody home.

18. The next morning LHO appeared for work at the TSBD. That day the TEC called Ruth Paine about this baggage handler's job, but Ruth didn't bother to talk with him -- she just said, "Lee already has a job, thanks," hung up, and forgot about it.

OK, Sandy, those are the facts. Now, if a person is prejudiced against Ruth Paine, or wants to convict her of a CIA plot to kill JFK (like some here do) then there's no way to convince them otherwise, because the fact is that Ruth Paine was the single most active person in getting LHO that job in the TSBD.

But consider this -- if Ruth Paine was totally innocent of any CIA plot to kill JFK -- all the facts that I cited above would still stand without alteration. In other words -- haters gonna hate. People who want to find some sacrificial scapegoat for their political paranoia are going to blame Ruth Paine for the fact that LHO was working at the TSBD when the Conspiracy to kill JFK came to fruition six weeks later.

Ruth Paine can only repeat what she's repeated for 52 years -- IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.

Ruth says that because IT'S THE TRUTH. What else could she possibly say except the Truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited March 1, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Martin Blank]

Well -- let's give John Armstrong the benefit of the doubt -- maybe he's actually done some independent research. I'm looking forward to picking his article apart.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm looking forward to seeing how John gives credit to Ruth (and not Linnie Mae Randle) for suggesting Oswald apply for a job at the TSBD.

Accusing Ruth Paine of placing LHO at the TSBD to be blamed for the murder of JFK has been a favorite pastime of CTers for decades.

There's no way to dissuade the prejudiced, however. The facts from testimony are these:

1. LHO was out of work for the second time in 1963, and his wife was about to have another baby.

2. Marina was embarrassed to be sponging off of Ruth Paine, a new friend, when her husband should be supporting her -- or at the very worst, her husband's own family should be putting her up.

3. But Marina brought this upon herself when back in March, 1963, she began complaining to a friendly person she had only met a week ago, that she was pregnant and LHO was threatening to send her back to the USSR without him.

4. Marina might have known that this would enrage Ruth Paine, and set Ruth on a course of Quaker Charity to "save Marina Oswald" from her lazy, irresponsible husband -- and to keep Marina Oswald in the USA, where she urgently wanted to stay.

5. On 23 April 1963, Ruth went to visit Marina as scheduled, only to find LHO out of work, and planning to go to New Orleans alone -- leaving Marina only a bus ticket and a promise to write her a letter when he got a job and a place to stay. Marina was worried because a normal husband would have at least placed her at his mother's house before leaving the State, leaving her alone with a baby and $10 to her name, not speaking English.

6. So, Ruth Paine -- in Quaker Charity -- offered to keep Marina Oswald at her house for a few days until LHO got on his feet and he could call on the phone instead of writing a letter, and besides that Ruth Paine would drive Marina and June to New Orleans personally. LHO jumped at the offer.

7. Seventeen days later, LHO did call, and Marina was so excited she exclaimed to baby June, "Papa loves us!" She wasn't sure if she was being abandoned or not. Now she believed LHO again. So, Ruth Paine packed them up and drove her two kids, baby June and Marina Oswald to New Orleans.

8. Ruth and Marina continued to exchange letters during the summer. Marina said she was getting along better with LHO now. After Ruth's summer vacation back East, she drove home in late September and stopped off at New Orleans to visit Marina. SHE WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT LHO WAS OUT OF WORK AGAIN.

9. Worse, this time Marina was eight months pregnant and waddling. Plus, Marina had no health insurance. She could literally drop any day.

10. So, again, because of her Quaker Charity, Ruth Paine offered to take Marina Oswald back to Dallas, to register her at Parkland Hospital, so that Marina Oswald could have her new baby in a healthy medical environment. Ruth said that after the childbirth, Marina was welcome to stay at her home through January 1964, as her mother was coming to stay with her in February 1964. Again LHO jumped at the offer.

11. LHO said he was going to Houston to look for work there.

12. LHO packed up their station wagon (without a rifle) and sent them away to Texas on 23 September 1963.

13. On October 7, 1963, LHO appeared at Ruth Paine's doorstep -- STILL WITHOUT A JOB. He was also low on cash, and had checked into a room in Dallas. Marina was EXTREMELY embarrassed.

14. Marina was frantic that LHO was still OUT OF WORK. One day, as the neighborhood mothers were having a coffee gathering, they got to talking about LHO being OUT OF WORK. They talked about how they might help. Linnie Mae Randle was there with perhaps five women. Ruth translated for Marina. One of the things that Ruth brought up was that LHO had no car -- and even if he did, he had little driving experience and no driver's license. Then Linnie Mae said that her teenage brother just got a job at TSBD, and he drives a car. She heard they were hiring.

15. MARINA'S EYES LIT UP. After the meeting, when they got home, Marina Oswald asked Ruth again and again to please call the TSBD about a job. Remember that Ruth Paine liked Marina Oswald a lot. She was good Russian conversation, kind and patient with Ruth's Russian grammar errors, was a hard worker, and called her Auntie Ruth to baby June. Ruth had lots of time for Marina Oswald.

15.1. So, because MARINA WAS INSISTENT, Ruth Paine not only called the TSBD and got Roy Truly, but she gave Roy Truly the hard sell. This was a good Marine, she said, who needed a job because his wife had one baby and the other was on the way. Roy was basically sold, but of course had to see LHO with his own eyes.

16. The next day LHO applied for the job -- he was well-groomed and very polite, very eager and looked like an honorably discharged Marine to Roy Truly. He got the job on the spot. He would report to work in the morning.

17. As we see in WC testimony, on the day that LHO was interviewing with Roy Truly, the TEC was trying to call Ruth to tell her they had a baggage handlers job at the airport. But there was nobody home.

18. The next morning LHO appeared for work at the TSBD. That day the TEC called Ruth Paine about this baggage handler's job, but Ruth didn't bother to talk with him -- she just said, "Lee already has a job, thanks," hung up, and forgot about it.

OK, Sandy, those are the facts. Now, if a person is prejudiced against Ruth Paine, or wants to convict her of a CIA plot to kill JFK (like some here do) then there's no way to convince them otherwise, because the fact is that Ruth Paine was the single most active person in getting LHO that job in the TSBD.

But consider this -- if Ruth Paine was totally innocent of any CIA plot to kill JFK -- all the facts that I cited above would still stand without alteration. In other words -- haters gonna hate. People who want to find some sacrificial scapegoat for their political paranoia are going to blame Ruth Paine for the fact that LHO was working at the TSBD when the Conspiracy to kill JFK came to fruition six weeks later.

Ruth Paine can only repeat what she's repeated for 52 years -- IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.

Ruth says that because IT'S THE TRUTH. What else could she possibly say except the Truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

um, she could have lied through her cia teeth.

[Paul Trejo]

Ruth Paine can only repeat what she's repeated for 52 years -- IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.

Ruth says that because IT'S THE TRUTH. What else could she possibly say except the Truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

um, she could have lied through her cia teeth.

Your problem, Martin, is that you have no material evidence of any kind that Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent.

But like I say -- haters gonna hate.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

[Martin Blank]

Ruth Paine can only repeat what she's repeated for 52 years -- IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.

Ruth says that because IT'S THE TRUTH. What else could she possibly say except the Truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

um, she could have lied through her cia teeth.

Your problem, Martin, is that you have no material evidence of any kind that Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent.

But like I say -- haters gonna hate.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

and people break promises. i don't think cia people wear id badges. and where was nixon's quaker sense of mercy. i'm sure ruthie would have no trouble taking a lie detector test. and francis gary powers was flying a weather plane!

you have no facts for anything just a rubiks cube of speculation

Edited March 1, 2016 by Martin Blank

[David G. Healy]

Ruth Paine can only repeat what she's repeated for 52 years -- IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.

Ruth says that because IT'S THE TRUTH. What else could she possibly say except the Truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

um, she could have lied through her cia teeth.

Your problem, Martin, is that you have no material evidence of any kind that Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent.

But like I say -- haters gonna hate.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

there's no haters here (that I know of), Paul.

One might wonder though as to why, you've placed Ruth Paine to the forefront on this forum?

Still pounding that Quaker charity drum, eh? Perhaps you know, or think you know something we don't. Guilt does have a way of catching up!

Gotta admit this entire thread re Ruth Paine, etc is quite bizarre. My gut reaction is it's a PR stunt!

[Jon G. Tidd]

Paul,

The NOLA photos in which I'm interested are the photos of June.

As someone else has written, June knew who was taking her photograph, given her pose and attitude.

[Jim Hargrove]

John Armstrong is just starting work on an article for HarveyandLee.net tentatively entitled "Ruth Paine... Co-Conspirator."

It will be some time before that work is completed, but, in the meantime, I thought readers might be interested in the following

incident taken from John's 2003 book. If accurate, it speaks volumes about Ruth Paine.

Lee Oswald sells a 30.06 rifle

On a Saturday morning in April 1963, two men drove into Jack's Super Shell

Service Station on the southwest corner of Rock Island and Story in Irving, Texas. The

men spoke with 49-year-old Robert Adrian Taylor, the station mechanic, and com-

plained of engine trouble in their car (possibly a 1959 Chevrolet). Taylor determined the

generator of the automobile needed repairs and told the men it would cost $11.50 to

make the repairs.

Neither of the men had enough money and asked Taylor if he would like to buy

a rifle. When Taylor said that he might be interested one of the men opened the trunk

of the car and said, "There it is." Taylor looked at the rifle and saw that it was a Spring-

field, bolt action, 30.06 caliber, serial number 66091, and contained the markings "US

Rock Island Arsenal." He offered the men $12.00 for the rifle, which they accepted, and

he repaired the car.

Taylor described the driver of the car as a white male, approximately 20 years

old, 5-foot-8, with dark hair and a thin face. Taylor told FBI Agent Maurice White the

passenger of the car was identical with the photograph of the man accused of assassi-

nating President Kennedy (Lee Harvey Oswald). Taylor reconditioned the Springfield

rifle and had it in his possession when interviewed by SA White on December 14,

1963.^{126 MAR, 63-19}

Two weeks later the same man came to the Shell station in another car driven

by a woman who lived nearby and often had her car serviced at Jack's Super Shell. Glenn

E. Smith began working with Robert Taylor at the Shell station shortly after Taylor

purchased the rifle. He told FBI agent Maurice White that he serviced a 1957 Chevrolet

(Ruth Paine owned a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon) on numerous occasions for a woman

who lived at 2515 W. 5th in Irving (Ruth Paine's address). On one occasion she dropped

off her car at the station for servicing and left the groceries in the car. Smith delivered

groceries to her home and carried them inside of her house. While in her home, she told

Glenn Smith that her children spoke Russian better than they spoke English.¹²⁷

The Warren Commission never interviewed Robert Taylor, the man who pur-

chased the 30.06 rifle from Lee Oswald, but chose instead to interview Glenn Smith, who was

not yet working with Taylor when he purchased the 30.06 rifle.

NOTE: Once again the Commission intentionally interviewed a person who never met

Oswald (Glenn Smith) instead of a man who had direct contact with Oswald (Robert A.

Taylor). T his is yet another example of how the Commission selectively chose witnesses they

interviewed while avoiding witnesses they considered "troublesome. " T he Commission

used this technique when they interviewed Dr. Hartogs instead of Dr. Kurian, William

Wulf instead of Palmer McBride, Daniel Powers instead of Allen Felde, Helen

Cunningham instead of Laura Kittrell, Owen Dejanovich instead of Lieutenant Charles

Rhodes, and thereby avoided exposing the two Oswalds.

Glenn Smith told Commission attorney Liebeler, "I think he (Taylor) is truth-

ful and I think he is reliable." When Liebeler asked Smith if he thought Taylor would

tell the FBI that he got a rifle from Oswald if he didn't in fact get a rifle from Oswald,

Smith said, "I don't. I sure don't."¹²⁸

From the FBI interview of Robert Taylor the Commission was aware that (Lee)

Oswald may have owned and sold a 30.06 rifle in April 1963. They were aware the Dallas

Police recovered a mutilated 30.06 bullet ("steel-jacketed") from General Walker's

home, that was identified by Dallas Police Detective Ira Van Cleave in his report of April

10, 1963.

With a mutilated 30.06 bullet and the FBI report of Adrian Taylor, the Commis-

sion should have asked the FBI for a ballistic comparison between the Walker bullet and

the rifle that Lee Oswald sold to Robert Taylor, but they did not (even though the FBI

compared the Walker bullet with the Mannlicher-Carcano). They should have asked the FBI

to trace the origin of Taylor's rifle, just as they had traced the origin of the Mannlicher-

Carcano, but they did not. What did the Warren Commission do to prove or disprove that

Taylor had purchased a 30.06 rifle from Oswald? Nothing.

___________________________

NOTES:

¹²⁶ WC Document 205, p. 71-72, Interview of Robert Adrian Taylor by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁷ WC Document 205, p. 69-70, Interview of G. E. Smith by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁸ WC testimony of Glenn Emmett Smith, 10 H 402

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 521-522

Copyright 2003 by John Armstrong

[Sandy Larsen]

Well -- let's give John Armstrong the benefit of the doubt -- maybe he's actually done some independent research. I'm looking forward to picking his article apart.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm looking forward to seeing how John gives credit to Ruth (and not Linnie Mae Randle) for suggesting Oswald apply for a job at the TSBD.

Accusing Ruth Paine of placing LHO at the TSBD to be blamed for the murder of JFK has been a favorite pastime of CTers for decades.

Paul,

I'm not blaming Paine for doing anything wrong. So I'm not accusing her of anything. I'm merely attributing to her the idea of Oswald apply for a job at the TSBD.

Since you believe, as do I, that Oswald was set up as a patsy, surely you must wonder how it is that Oswald just happened to have gotten a job that facilitated his being set up. Can't you see that some how Ruth played into the plotters hands by helping Oswald get that job?

How do you believe it came about the Oswald happened to end up working in a place where he could be blamed for the assassination of Kennedy?

[Sandy Larsen]

John Armstrong is just starting work on an article for HarveyandLee.net tentatively entitled "Ruth Paine... Co-Conspirator."

It will be some time before that work is completed, but, in the meantime, I thought readers might be interested in the following

incident taken from John's 2003 book. If accurate, it speaks volumes about Ruth Paine.

Lee Oswald sells a 30.06 rifle

On a Saturday morning in April 1963, two men drove into Jack's Super Shell

Service Station on the southwest corner of Rock Island and Story in Irving, Texas. The

men spoke with 49-year-old Robert Adrian Taylor, the station mechanic, and com-

plained of engine trouble in their car (possibly a 1959 Chevrolet). Taylor determined the

generator of the automobile needed repairs and told the men it would cost $11.50 to

make the repairs.

Neither of the men had enough money and asked Taylor if he would like to buy

a rifle. When Taylor said that he might be interested one of the men opened the trunk

of the car and said, "There it is." Taylor looked at the rifle and saw that it was a Spring-

field, bolt action, 30.06 caliber, serial number 66091, and contained the markings "US

Rock Island Arsenal." He offered the men $12.00 for the rifle, which they accepted, and

he repaired the car.

Taylor described the driver of the car as a white male, approximately 20 years

old, 5-foot-8, with dark hair and a thin face. Taylor told FBI Agent Maurice White the

passenger of the car was identical with the photograph of the man accused of assassi-

nating President Kennedy (Lee Harvey Oswald). Taylor reconditioned the Springfield

rifle and had it in his possession when interviewed by SA White on December 14,

1963.^{126 MAR, 63-19}

Two weeks later the same man came to the Shell station in another car driven

by a woman who lived nearby and often had her car serviced at Jack's Super Shell. Glenn

E. Smith began working with Robert Taylor at the Shell station shortly after Taylor

purchased the rifle. He told FBI agent Maurice White that he serviced a 1957 Chevrolet

(Ruth Paine owned a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon) on numerous occasions for a woman

who lived at 2515 W. 5th in Irving (Ruth Paine's address). On one occasion she dropped

off her car at the station for servicing and left the groceries in the car. Smith delivered

groceries to her home and carried them inside of her house. While in her home, she told

Glenn Smith that her children spoke Russian better than they spoke English.¹²⁷

The Warren Commission never interviewed Robert Taylor, the man who pur-

chased the 30.06 rifle from Lee Oswald, but chose instead to interview Glenn Smith, who was

not yet working with Taylor when he purchased the 30.06 rifle.

NOTE: Once again the Commission intentionally interviewed a person who never met

Oswald (Glenn Smith) instead of a man who had direct contact with Oswald (Robert A.

Taylor). T his is yet another example of how the Commission selectively chose witnesses they

interviewed while avoiding witnesses they considered "troublesome. " T he Commission

used this technique when they interviewed Dr. Hartogs instead of Dr. Kurian, William

Wulf instead of Palmer McBride, Daniel Powers instead of Allen Felde, Helen

Cunningham instead of Laura Kittrell, Owen Dejanovich instead of Lieutenant Charles

Rhodes, and thereby avoided exposing the two Oswalds.

Glenn Smith told Commission attorney Liebeler, "I think he (Taylor) is truth-

ful and I think he is reliable." When Liebeler asked Smith if he thought Taylor would

tell the FBI that he got a rifle from Oswald if he didn't in fact get a rifle from Oswald,

Smith said, "I don't. I sure don't."¹²⁸

From the FBI interview of Robert Taylor the Commission was aware that (Lee)

Oswald may have owned and sold a 30.06 rifle in April 1963. They were aware the Dallas

Police recovered a mutilated 30.06 bullet ("steel-jacketed") from General Walker's

home, that was identified by Dallas Police Detective Ira Van Cleave in his report of April

10, 1963.

With a mutilated 30.06 bullet and the FBI report of Adrian Taylor, the Commis-

sion should have asked the FBI for a ballistic comparison between the Walker bullet and

the rifle that Lee Oswald sold to Robert Taylor, but they did not (even though the FBI

compared the Walker bullet with the Mannlicher-Carcano). They should have asked the FBI

to trace the origin of Taylor's rifle, just as they had traced the origin of the Mannlicher-

Carcano, but they did not. What did the Warren Commission do to prove or disprove that

Taylor had purchased a 30.06 rifle from Oswald? Nothing.

___________________________

NOTES:

¹²⁶ WC Document 205, p. 71-72, Interview of Robert Adrian Taylor by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁷ WC Document 205, p. 69-70, Interview of G. E. Smith by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁸ WC testimony of Glenn Emmett Smith, 10 H 402

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 521-522

Copyright 2003 by John Armstrong

Jim,

When you say it speaks volumes about Ruth Paine, are you referring to he comment that her kids could speak Russian?

(I just woke up and maybe I missed something due to brain fog. I'm definitely not a morning person.)

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy,

Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald (the guy killed by Ruby) didn't have a drivers license and couldn't drive a car, but American-born LEE Oswald apparently DID have a valid Texas drivers license and COULD drive a car. For the evidence, see:

http://harveyandlee.net/Driving/Drive.htm

If Robert Taylor and Glenn Smith were correct that it was “Oswald” driving Ruth Paine's Chevy, it could only have been LEE, and that most likely means that Mrs. Paine was working with BOTH Oswalds. This is just about the time that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald is sent to New Orleans to hang out with virulent anti-Communists and pretend he loved Castro. It was the start of the frame-up of Lee HARVEY Oswald as the patsy in the assassination of President Kennedy, which would be continued in and around Dallas in the weeks leading up to the hit.

You obviously can't bet the farm on the observations of just one or two guys, but this COULD be an intriguing insight into Mrs. Paine's involvement in this case.

[Sandy Larsen]

Jim,

Please bear with me as I try to understand the point of your post.

I will restate the story as I understand it, leaving out irrelevant parts for brevity's sake, but inserting probable assumptions as I see them.

But first a couple of comments:

• I don't see any compelling reason to believe that the first car is in any way related to Ruth Paine.
  
• The driver of the first car (the one with the broken generator) may (or may not) be a HARVEY Oswald look-alike given that he is described as a white male, approximately 20 years old, 5-foot-8, with dark hair and a thin face. But there is no compelling reason, that I can see, to believe that he is LEE Oswald specifically.
  

Now I'll restate the story as I see it... the important parts only:

Two guys have their car fixed at Jack's Super Shell. HARVEY Oswald is the passenger. They (probably the driver) sells a gun to the mechanic to pay for the repairs.

Two weeks later, Ruth Paine and HARVEY Oswald bring Ruth's Chevrolet station wagon in the same service station for service.

That's it. The only relaionship I see with Ruth Paine is Harvey Oswald. I don't see any LEE Oswald at all.

Where am I wrong?

Edited March 2, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Martin Blank]

If Robert Taylor and Glenn Smith were correct that it was “Oswald” driving Ruth Paine's Chevy, it could only have been LEE, and that most likely means that Mrs. Paine was working with BOTH Oswalds. This is just about the time that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald is sent to New Orleans to hang out with virulent anti-Communists and pretend he loved Castro. It was the start of the frame-up of Lee HARVEY Oswald as the patsy in the assassination of President Kennedy, which would be continued in and around Dallas in the weeks leading up to the hit.

as marina said: “I had two husbands: Lee, the father of my children, an affectionate and kind man; and Harvey Oswald, the assassin of President Kennedy." Did she get them mixed up innocently? Or was it purposeful. Who was the other in addition to Harvey? Was she with both Harvey and Lee?

​Makes you wonder just what was really going on in the paine residence.

this also may have what the paines were referring to in their phone conversion on Nov 22:

At 1:00 pm on November 22. 1963, Michael Paine placed a collect call to his wife to discuss Oswald's involvement in the assassination. While the telephone operator remained on the line, Michael Paine told his wife that he “Felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but was not responsible.” Rather ominously he added, “We both know who is responsible.” (FBI report of Robert C. Lish, November 26, 1963, JFK Document No. 105-82555-1437) The most extraordinary thing about this call is that it took place one hour before Oswald's arrest. For obvious reasons, the Warren Commission wanted to sweep this little problem under the rug as swiftly as possible. During Michael Paine's testimony, the ever resourceful commission attorney Wesley Liebeler changed the date of the call to the following day:

LIEBELER: Did you talk to your wife on the telephone at any time during Saturday, November 23?

PAINE: I was in the police station again, and I think I called her from there.

LIEBELER: Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?

PAINE: And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no. So I did not. (2H428)

Edited March 2, 2016 by Martin Blank

[Jim Hargrove]

I think you're right, Sandy, that in both cases the guy Taylor believed was “Oswald” was a passenger, not the driver. That was my mistake.

There is, however, ample other evidence that American born LEE Harvey Oswald could drive a car and, in fact, drove Ruth Paine's car. For example, for week after week in the summer of 1963, much of the time when Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald was in New Orleans, LEE Oswald had his hair cut at Cliff Shasteen's barber shop in suburban Dallas.

Mr. JENNER. You have a distinct recollection that on occasions when this man came into your shop for a haircut, he drove an automobile up to your shop?

Mr. SHASTEEN. He drove that there 1955, I think it's a 1955, I'm sure it's a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon. It's either blue and white or green and white it's two-toned--I know that. Now, why I say--why I take it for granted that Mrs. Paine was with him when he come to the grocery store--I do remember he wasn't driving when they would come to the grocery store, there would be a lady driving and I'm assuming that that was Mrs. Paine, because like I say, I have been--I have never been close enough to her and knew it, to speak to her, but she trades at the service station where I do and I saw her in there and I never did pay any attention to her and I saw her passing, met her in the road in the car and those things. (WC X, 317)

Shasteen also said that on at least one other occasion, he saw Oswald drive a 1958 Ford accompanied by a 14-year-old boy. Many other witnesses also saw Oswald drive a car in and around Dallas, often when Oswald was officially in New Orleans. During that strange episode in Alice, Texas, you can plot the places LEE Oswald drove on a map.

Also to Martin Blank: I don't put much stock in the “I had two husbands” quote, but that phone call between Ruth and Michael Paine would have been investigated in far greater detail in any serious investigation.