David Josephs

The point of the post wasn't the fake document... and btw the way ALERT ALERT not everyone here has been reading or doing this for decades like us... showing the extent to which opposition will go to mess with anyone trying to get at the truth. The point was once again refuting the ramblings of one BB who is messing with the entire membership as much much as that fake report was designed to mess with Lane... that Ruby had more than associated himself with the Dallas Police in his time in Dallas... That Westbrook among others gets him off his minor infractions is of course no indication that 11 years before he kills Oswald, Ruby has a special relationship with key members of the DPD... "certainly be able to identify him"... and thanks for agreeing with Bill, as his next post would have me pushing the report as genuine and proof of foreknowledge of the name ALEK HIDEL... When I spoke to Bobby Hargis on the evening of March 20, 1994 he was confused. He told me he knew Jack Ruby before the assassination and could recognize him on sight. "If I was ever called to anything involving Jack, I would certainly be able to identify him."

Another statement about an officer knowing RUBY by sight.. There is what appears to be a faked crime report from BLEDSOE on the night of 10/11/63 where PRICE/HARGIS go out to her near midnight and records that JACK RUBY and LEE OSWALD KNOWN AS ALEK HIDEL (sic) were in a fight and destroyed some property... yet at the top are numbers that spell out "U R A FINK" when you replace the numbers with corresponding letters in the alphabet... and there are usually never numbers like that.. Real questions to me are: when was it written, by whom and how do they know about "ALEK HIDEL" ? Warren Commission volume 19 between pages 132 and 134 (Batchelor exhibit 5002) describes both Hargis and White's assignments while on DPD duty. B. Hargis worked the traffic division assigned to solo motorcycle and special enforcement. Hargis worked the 7AM to 3PM shift and his superior was Sgt. R. Smart. White worked 4PM until midnight in the accident prevention division. He reported to Sgt. B.F. Rodgers. When I spoke to Bobby Hargis on the evening of March 20, 1994 he was confused. He told me he knew Jack Ruby before the assassination and could recognize him on sight. "If I was ever called to anything involving Jack, I would certainly be able to identify him." Hargis stated he never worked with J.C. White and didn't remember him. Additionally, he was never, ever assigned to anything but a motorcycle division. "No, I wouldn't respond to anything in a squad car." was his answer.

noted...

Yet somehow Fritz has a 98% conviction rate?

Which film/photo is the one with the arrows Chris?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/K Disk/Kantor Seth/Item 04.pdf. Seth Kantor article claiming that Ruby knew at least 1 of every 3 Dallas policemen in the basement that day... On November 25, 1963, the Houston FBI Office received information from Al Bright, an ex-felon of Corpus Christi, Texas, to the effect that RUBY was the payoff man for the Dallas Police Department, and whenever liquor and gambling raids were to be made on the Dallas underworld, RUBY was always contacted first by some unknown person from the Dallas Police Department. Al Bright obtained this information from Roy William Pike, who had once served a bookkeeper for RUBY, and was one of 12 persons known to have been in telephone contact with RUBY just before the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Roy William Pike was arrested for rape in 1943. Roy William Pike told Al Bright: "I think I spoke with RUBY about his relationship with HOFFA." The FBI interviewed Roy William Pike, who denied having said any of this. J. Edgar Hoover confused the report of Al Bright with that of Roy William Pike, and noted: "Pike was interviewed in connection with the case on November 25, 1963, at which time he alleged that RUBY was friendly with James HOFFA and the syndicate and was a pay- off man of the Dallas Police Department." [FBI 44-24016-1196; FBI report filed 11.25.63 Corpus Christi; FBI #110-44-939 pgs.329, 530, 531, 532] In 1956 RUBY traveled to Hot Springs, Arkansas, a center of gambling and vice in the South. RUBY was accompanied by Jesse Curry, the Chief of Police of Dallas, Texas. After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, a friend of RUBY'S, Eli Schulman, told the FBI that "RUBY had many Dallas cops for friends - in fact he took the Chief of Police to Hot Springs Arkansas, when I don't know." [FBI 44-24016-275; C.Ray Hall WCE 3; FBI DL 44-1639; LL R: BC D-cover page] At 1:30 p.m. RUBY drove to Dealey Plaza where he continued to mingle with the media. RUBY pointed out to a reporter that Captain Will Fritz and Chief Jesse Curry were in the vicinity. RUBY knew both these men. Jesse Curry had put Will Fritz in charge of OSWALD while he was in police custody. Travis Kirk, Officer TIPPIT's attorney, remarked: "Fritz and JACK RUBY were very close friends. JACK RUBY, in spite of his reputation of being a 'hood' was allowed complete run of the Homicide Bureau." And a few items from my files re: Ruby given very lenient treatment by the public officials in Dallas... going back to Westbrook in 1953.. interesting they would write that memo in Dec 1964... Also have the note from Nixon's Congressional in 1947 office requesting Ruby not be asked to testify in the House Committee on un-American Activity in 1947... along with some case dismissals in Dallas for no real good reason...

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May want to throw WESTBROOK and CROY in on this... looking forward to more from you on this... Thanks Gil

Ask Dorothy Kilgallan .... Just curious now... why is this so important to the LNer? Whether the call was Ruby or not doesn't actually matter much as Fritz lied about being ready whenever to take Oswald down PER CURRY (notice how he offloads the blame for the transfer to CURRY's instructions) when Fritz keeps questioning Oswald until is given a sign by an un-named officer that all was good to go. This happens AFTER the parking garage area (behind where everyone was focused) is stripped clean of police personnel except for an un-named RESERVIST who was told to guard the Freight elevator next to the stairs which Ruby used to get into the basement unseen.. we speculate this Reservist was CROY... Who never did go over to guard that area of the basement... In fact, CROY's affidavit states he believed it was Ruby next to him who he asked to move back well before the car goes up the ramp and everyone surges back into the small area where Oswald was being taken out. Croy does nothing to make anyone aware that Ruby, Ruby was not a reporter or TV man but someone Croy knew did not belong there... and still he does nothing.. in that shadow to the anatomical left of Croy is Ruby.. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, sometime after you came in, you were assigned to guard a particular area of the basement; is that correct?Mr. CROY. No.Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you tell us what you were assigned to do?Mr. CROY. When I came into the city hall, I went to the assembly room, and that is where any initial assignments are made, in the assembly room, making up the muster and the roster of the reserve officers that arrived.Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain there?Mr. CROY. Well, I was in and out of there, between there and the basement.Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain on that duty?Mr. CROY. I never was relieved from that duty. I went in there, but I never was relieved from it.Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you have stated in your letter to Chief Curry of November 26, 1963, in paragraph 3, "I was assigned to the basement and jail office entrance, and my assignment was that of a guard."Mr. CROY. Well, that"was in the entire thing down there is what everyone in the basement was considered a guard at the same time, if you are standing in front of the entrances, elevators, or in the back of the basement.Mr. GRIFFIN. So you never had any particular station of duty there?Mr. CROY. No. I wasn't just assigned a spot and told to stay there.Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did there come a time when you stationed yourself at the foot of the Main Street ramp in the basement?Mr. CROY. Yes. Within a second or so as Oswald comes out. Croy again, knowing it's Ruby makes no move to block him, move him, or say anything to arose suspicion... Just some hoodlum in the basement... sure... We first speculated Ruby had followed the red arrow path but we have film of the car going up the ramp and for many minutes beforehand, no one walked in front of the camera from left to right to get to where Ruby was... plus that path exposed him to many more potential witnesses than just going thru the railing by walking straight.. the notes on the image even says "leaves by 10:15" and "leaves by 11am"... the basement was unguarded along the path Ruby takes in the basement and by cutting thru the parking lot - or even walking around to the small alley that leads directly to that side door - he avoids being seen by the men along Main street. The quoted text is from the HSCA.. most damning being the reversed image telling us how the FBI, DPD never investigated this entrance possibility and was ignored by the WC. The other text describes how DPD Personnel was on that ramp when Ruby had to have come down, and none see the man. Back to the call... it would seem that only Ruby would know that Fritz would wait until signaled to bring Oswald down to be killed in the basement. Fritz provides no protection himself... in fact it seems he just gets out of the way and never bothers to even turn back.. and then has Leavelle C-his-A. Saw the shooting my butt. Y'all can keep dickering about the Grammer call as if anything will change what happened or how the DPD went out of their way to provide Ruby an unobstructed path to Oswald, safeguarded by CROY who knows he's there, knows he doesn't belong there and does nothing... With Dean instrumental in clearing out this path... No wonder he was so quick to throw Vaughn under the bus and push the Main Street ramp as the only possible route. Make the assumption it was someone else calling about Oswald that night... how does that one factual change alter what occurred?

Humes: This is in the report from the House Select Committee on Assassinations, dated August 17, 1977, by Andy Purdy, where he conducted an interview with Dr. Boswell. And I'm now going to quote from Mr. Purdy's words: "He"--and that's referring to Dr. Boswell--"indicated that Dr. Burkley was basically supervising everything that went on in the autopsy room and that the commanding officer was also responding to Burkley's wishes." So we know that FINCK finally said that Military men gave orders... Q: How many other military personnel were present at the autopsy in the autopsy room?A: That autopsy room was quite crowded. It is a small autopsy room, and when you are called in circumstances like that to look at the wound of the President of the United States who is dead, you don't look around too much to ask people for their names and take notes on who they are and how many there are. I did not do so. The room was crowded with military and civilian personnel and federal agents, Secret Service agents, FBI agents, for part of the autopsy, but I cannot give you a precise breakdown as regards the attendance of the people in that autopsy room at Bethesda Naval Hospital.Q: Colonel (FINCK), did you feel that you had to take orders from this Army General that was there directing the autopsy?A: No, because there were others, there were Admirals.Q: There were Admirals?A: Oh, yes, there were Admirals, and when you are a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army you just follow orders, and at the end of the autopsy we were specifically told -- as I recall it, it was by Admiral Kinney, the Surgeon General of the Navy -- this is sub- ject to verification -- we were specifically told not to discuss the case. Q: But you did take orders and did not dissect the throat area?A: Well, these are not direct orders, these are suggestions and directions. I was not told, "I give you a direct order" or that sort of thing.Q: And at the time, Colonel, you were a Lieutenant Colonel, were you not?A: Yes.Q: And there were Admirals and Generals in that room, were there not?

John and I have spoken about it often... and years ago I brought up the idea that it was Shelley with Oswald at the ITM... The similarities are striking, IMO.

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said: No. This is where you have it wrong. I'm simply saying that we don't hear anything from anyone, Grammer or otherwise, that the call that night was made by Jack Ruby, until roughly 25 years later. If Bill fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean, he'd still miss the water... when you miss simple concepts as often as he does all he has left are these vapid posts so his life is not so totally meaningless... Poor Bill... Let's all gather round and give him a big hug... he remains so starved for attention, he posts... well, y'all see what he posts... The testimony of J. W. Fritz was taken at 9 a.m., on July. 14, 1964. (DJ: So Bill, to you 1964 was 25 years after 1963? well done big brain, well done ) Mr. FRITZ. During the night on Saturday night, I had a call at my home from uniformed captain, Captain Frazier, I believe is his name, he called me out at home and told me they had had some threats and he had to transfer Oswald.And I said, well, I don't know. I said there has been no security setup, and the chief having something to do with this transfer and you had better call him, because---so he told me he would.Mr. BALL. Did you think----Mr. FRITZ. He called me back then in a few minutes and he told me he couldn't get the chief and told me to leave him where he was. I don't think that transferring him at night would have been any safer than transferring, may I say this?Mr. BALL. Yes.Mr. FRITZ. Any safer than transferring him during the day. I have always felt that that was Ruby who made that call, I may be wrong, but he was out late that night and I have always felt he might have made that call, if two or three. of those officers had started out with him they may have had the same trouble they had the next morning.

You can't fix stupid, guys... As much as you'd like to, there are some who do what they do on this forum simply for the joy of feeling as if they got you off topic... The FBI generated something called COINTELPRO as a guideline as to how to go about disrupting forums, gatherings, lectures or any other agenda for which THEY feel it necessary. Please Google the term and recognize the tactics... This forum has been under attack in one way or another for as long as I've been here... but not by the likes of Von Pein who does his best given the material with which he has to work... No, the people who use these tactics offer little to the members beyond the pleasure of seeing their name on a forum... their most prized accomplishment is to be taken seriously and to be argued with... a no win situation as their position is not real, their arguments not sincere... It's not hard to tell wheat from shaft. It pains me to see intelligent people such as yourselves get dragged down into the hole these people have dug for themselves by simply accepting the WCR as if nothing has occurred since Sept 1964. The evidence offered in the POS was never vetted, never cross-examined, never even rendered authentic... So we must pity these poor fools for having to defend the indefensible day after day to the point we all see now as comical. But please, don't feed the idiots... let them pace back and forth in their cages hoping someone comes in to feed them, then they can attack... Some of the people in the past even were paid provocateurs with endless hours to waste and your time and energy the target. I'm as guilty as the next for engaging... yet I doubt highly that members are so intellectually starved they need the intellectually bankrupt to serve as counterpoint. I bring this up as it appears there are more than a handful of posters with nothing to do but try to convince you the good ole US of A never had political conspiracies and never will... none being a better example of this than the JFK/Tippit/Oswald murders... so spit in to the wind, pull on Superman's cape... but don't believe for a second that anyone is being convinced of anything here... Either you get it and want to understand, or you don't and playing the fool is all that's left... this isn't Twitter, so no, their opinions are not worth much of anything, their incredulity over the events don't change them... count how many "why would he/they" or "does it make sense" statements these posters use... for that is the only argument left... fighting the evidence with opinions hasn't worked so far, and surprise-surprise-surprise, it's not going to start any time soon. Good luck COINTELPRO Hopefully this can help raise awareness of the different behaviors we've all experienced. Our POV has to be maintained - we are NOT attempting to PROVE the existence of a conspiracy... a foregone conclusion.... all we are doing now is identifying the players and the tactics... with a good chunk of those tactics listed right here. 1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum 2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation 3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist 4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent) 5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression ______________________________________________________________________________________ Here are a few from #2: 25 Rules... see if you don't recognize them... 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues. 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

There is plenty of counterpoint to 1. a dog even being in the car, and 2. if there was, it was not Sheba... I've read quite a few things about it... and even if Sheba was in the car, can you just imagine the options left to Ruby should he decide not to kill Oswald as ordered to? I'd think Sheba was the least of his worries at that point... Yet, read what you can and make up your own minds... What amazed us as we learned it was how the basement cops were cleared out 15-30 minutes before he was brought down... just about when Ruby arrives at the Western Union... and would easily be seen from that same 3rd floor window For those who may have missed the post... here is the pass thru which had been covered over. and below that is the side door and 3rd floor windows looking out over the parking lot and to the western union office around the corner at the far right

"distracting" being the key here... if they can't convince, then be a PITA for as long as possible... Barlow put it best.... "Aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know"

As our paper points out, there was a pass-through between buildings on the third floor, in the senior DPD officer's wing, along Commerce. Anyone wanting to see Ruby leave the Western Union office could do so from the third floor windows of the court house... then just walk back to the DPD building where Oswald was being kept on the 3rd floor... and signal that Ruby was on the way... we speculate this being Westbrook... Thanks Gene

Hi Michael... John Armstrong and I recently finished a paper about that in detail https://harveyandlee.net/Oswald_Killed/Oswald_Killed.html Yes, the HSCA concluded that the side door was the most likely but did not get deeper into it We do... and it's quite interesting... Hope you enjoy

Do you see a body in any of the images? and how the image is simply an existing photo of Oswald? Very easy process in Photoshop Denis. In fact, here... I call this "kneeling man"... to go with Badge-man and Hat-man NOT A REAL IMAGE but simply some manipulation with contrast and brightness. There was no one sitting there despite now seeing someone... I did not add anything or take anything away... just played with contrast and light. Also try to remember that when it is darker inside than outside, the window will reflect, only when there is a decent light source will you see anything inside... So if you see a face, there MUST be a body... point out the body Denis. If a face can be seen then the rest of the body would too... this is the arrest image placed behind the window... If you now have the best version you've seen... please show the body holding up the floating head... Thx I also took the image at right and put it in that window... see the exact match? Much of what I do is work with the photos... and the DPD, DVP, FBI and anyone else wanting to incriminate Oswald can do the same... And oh, by the way... OSWALD WAS NOT ON THE 6TH FLOOR AFTER 11:30 THAT DAY... ...AND NEVER OWNED THAT RIFLE. DEMONSTRABLY SO.

As bad as Humes and Boswell were at this, they still reflected the scalp as one is supposed to in a craniotomy.. I don't think the diagram is too hard for anyone to follow and recognize the process. Top square image at the bottom right #10 and the one above it #9 SHOULD have been the way our expert surgeons would have done it. Have not seen instructions which reflects the scalp over the ears from side to side.. The cut in #9 looks like the extension of lacerations down towards the ear - meaning that the skin flaps we see in that autopsy image SHOULD be the same and that hole is in the right rear of the head... where virtually everyone who saw him placed it. I was the one who created the image in Gil's post showing the correct orientation on the head itself. and could even be rotated clockwise slightly so the flaps of scalp reflect straight over his eyes. His second sentence is pure crap... See VIII. 11. Detach the dura from the scalp... and then the number of cuts needed to separate dura from scalp... Also needing cutting, IX. 4. a. the optic nerves, b. carotid arteries, c. "other nerves" as well as #5, #6, #7. Unless someone did all this before 8pm, the brain will not fall out of the skull... pieces of brain separated from brain, yes, but if the brain was actually 1500 cc's there was A LOT more work to do to remove the brain... Even if most of the brain was destroyed... whatever was left on the left side of his skull would need cutting through the dura at least, and the nerves for sure. HUMES WC Testimony: To better examine the situation with regard to the skull, at this time, Boswell and I extended the lacerations of the scalp which were at the margins of this wound, down in the direction of both of the President's ears. At that point, we had even a better appreciation of the extensive damage which had been done to the skill by this injury.We had to do virtually no work with a saw to remove these Portions of the skull, they came apart in our hands very easily, and we attempted to further examine the brain, and seek specifically this fragment which was the one we felt to be of a size which would permit us to recover it.

Again looking thru all the DPD copies of things I came across this version with a notation that the negatives were all returned to ROSE So maybe it was ROSE who needs to be held responsible for the loss of a negative.. or keeping it for posterity... Hicks' testimony is very short and there is no mention of this transaction or the copies... Rose is never questioned about these all important negatives and photo... and gives credit to McCabe for finding another photo while standing with him... huh? Mr. BALL. Did you find some pictures?Mr. ROSE. Yes; I found two negatives first that showed Lee Oswald holding a rifle in his hand, wearing a pistol at his hip, and right with those negatives I found a developed picture--I don't know what you call it, but anyway a picture that had been developed from the negative of him holding this rifle, and Detective McCabe was standing there and he found the other picture--of Oswald holding the rifle. So... what is the follow-up question from BALL this master of getting to the truth? Mr. BALL. What color were the sea bags? (YES, THIS IS HIS NEXT QUESTION.. no more negatives, photos, or Hicks)Mr. ROSE. I believe they were kind of an off white--I would call them--more of a greyish-white.Mr. BALL. What about the suitcases?Mr. ROSE. I don't remember the color of those suitcases. I know one of them was real worn.Mr. BALL. But you brought that property back here into town, did you?Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.Mr. BALL. Now, you say you sat in on the interrogation of Oswald later that day?Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.Mr. BALL. Now, you say you sat in on the interrogation of Oswald later that day?Mr. ROSE. On Saturday evening--that Saturday evening.Mr. BALL. What time?Mr. ROSE. I don't remember--it was late--it seemed like it was around 9 or 10 o'clock, I don't remember.Mr. BALL. Who was present?Mr. ROSE. Well, Captain Fritz, Detective Sims, and myself--I don't remember--there was an FBI agent and a Secret Service agent there, but I don't remember their names.

I love how they tried to make excuses about this study of the image/negative... The lines only appear after an Aerospace enhancement process... because the job done was so good... Wonder who, in 1963 had access to highly skilled photographic manipulators/creators....

First, I see Fritz lying about the timing by correcting his report... this is an earlier version from the DPD archives... the BYPs were not brought back until after the 12:35 he originally wrote... so he changed it. Second, there is little mention of the photo shown beyond him "holding a rifle" The/This "picture", not "pictures"... even though there is a CSSS form stating 2 negatives with prints of each... so I was wondering where you learned he was shown the photo with the lost negative... and why they are not listed at all on any inventory from either the DPD of FBI... Same with the arrest wallet BTW... the only wallets in evidence are marked as coming from IRVING... no arrest wallet and no wallet found at Tippit scene other than the one acknowledgment from Croy written on a Tippit crime scene photo signed and given to Bentley, if I remember correctly p.s. Reading the Gary Mack from 1985, he was quite the conspiracy advocate wasn't he... till the Dark Side got him..

Couple things about the ghost image... there are multiple images as we can see a drop shadow in one of them and not the other... As Pat mentioned, if Studebaker took photos, that could explain the drop shadow image along with the one that is flat... Also, below, see how skewed the actual 133-c is compared to the ghost image.. the 2 parallel lines in white are on the original ghost image, so if you paste Oswald in 133-c back into the ghost image, everything is off... if you rotate the actual image counter-clockwise it fits but also appears like he's going to fall over... the strange stance he seems to have. FWIW I thought Jeff mentions that 133-c was actually seen that weekend but suppressed for some reason as how else would they know to put Det Brown into that position? A 3rd image without a negative... and a lost negative... hmmm...

C'MON Denis... that is not a real image of Oswald in the window... Of course it's a fake... there is no "body" below the face... and as DVP is basically saying, he needed to be put up there since he was never there in the first place... Nice going Dave...

Really enjoyed the 5th part of the series on the BYP Jeff... Thanks for the wonderful work. And for showing Michael Paine for who he was and will always be. You feel the same about the 2nd negative? for which the HSCA is just plain stumped... but seems not to have done very much more about it. Despite there been quite a few sources of the information Maybe a different pose entirely, or maybe it had been tampered with so it needed to be gone...? Does seem to help support that 3 photos were produced from one negative. And then what about when/how it was developed? Or are we to believe Oswald did that himself? Maybe I missed that in your write-ups. DJ