David Josephs

Yes Ron... here... And notice how the stamp used for the HIDEEL Vacc card is the same

These 2 WC Exhibits show the change in the wallet contents from 11/22 to 11/24 as it relates to the FBI... Please notice that CLEMENTS writes that the ALEK JAMES HIDELL SSS card in Oswald's wallet is a PHOTOGRAPH, not the actual card... On the 24th Bookout can only see "furnished photos" of the items... and on the 27th Fritz gives Hosty a wallet and contents

There is a limit to the total amount of space you can use... if not linking to outside locations... plus you can just post the links to the Dallas Archives versions of these which are very high quality

Maybe to see that Oswald is actually shot and killed by police? Of all the people knowing Oswald had to die in the grand scheme, Ruby had to be one of them... as I see it. And since it doesn't happen, he "hangs around" until the plan involving his killing Oswald is created.... More than just Ruby knew he needed to go.... as Bill's post clearly shows..

Take a real close look too Bob... the Dallas Archives says these are photos of items taken from his wallet in Irving... Only 2 wallets in evidence - both labeled as coming from Irving... no arrest wallet mentioned by Bentley & Hill, no Tippit-scene wallet with the HIDELL/OSWALD ID... And the wallet did have $13.87 which was inventoried. the $170 supposedly left in a wallet in Irving was not inventoried or taken. . and here is that photo which is NEVER listed with the contents of the wallet with the 16 items related to it. The Tippit scene wallet Dallas Archives calls this a wallet found at Oswald's residence... which looks a lot like the Tippit-scene wallet... we have never seen the "arrest" wallet pulled from Oswald in the car on the way back to the DPD.

So I assume you see this as a fake? Looks to me as if it was folded up as well... Paul Bleau: And I truly think that that flyer that revealed it, was a mistake and it got everybody really pissed. Mark Groubert: We're talking about the one with a rubber stamp that's said 544 Camp Street? handbills are single pages while pamphlets are little books... The "handbill" Denis via Paul was talking about would look like this one... sadly my file does not provide the origin of this image yet I would guess it comes from one of the Armstrong notebooks from his Archives trips during the 90's when touching the items and photocopying the docs was ok.

I think Denis was speaking specifically about Paul mentioning "handbills" and not pamphlets... yet the contention that there was no connection between 544 Camp and Oswald is simply absurd on its face. The Secret Service bent over backward denying there was any connection and did virtually nothing to investigate the situation. They write in a report that if anything turns up they will write another report... yeah, sure. Gaudet confirms seeing Bannister and Oswald having a discussion - on Camp street - where Bannister seems to ask Oswald to do something... The 544 CAMP stampoed "pamphlet" is a WCR exhibit...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Patton+Ave+%26+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7477864,-96.818734,64a,35y,160.69h,53.12t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x864e999755f98d4f:0x61d2a8e7bc767dd!8m2!3d32.7471779!4d-96.8187386!16s%2Fg%2F11gd_4gnzk?hl=en The house in 1963 was replaced with a wider house and a structure in the back which were not there in 1963. In 1963 the "driveway" between 404/406 and 408/410 10th was 2 strips of concrete that did not run all the way to the alley, yet nothing obstructed a driver from turning from the alley to reach these 2 strips of "driveway"... or from backing straight out to the alley... BB is once again using any way available to distance truth from his own reality. Who is it that claims to have been the first DPD-related man on the scene? Kenneth Croy Who is involved with the incriminating wallet which disappears from evidence? Westbrook and Croy Give you a guess as to who was in that car in the alley... despite BB et al wishing it wasn't so and using Benavidas to distract you from the point.

3.13 degrees

Fantastic Bill.. Thank you very much.

The point of the post wasn't the fake document... and btw the way ALERT ALERT not everyone here has been reading or doing this for decades like us... showing the extent to which opposition will go to mess with anyone trying to get at the truth. The point was once again refuting the ramblings of one BB who is messing with the entire membership as much much as that fake report was designed to mess with Lane... that Ruby had more than associated himself with the Dallas Police in his time in Dallas... That Westbrook among others gets him off his minor infractions is of course no indication that 11 years before he kills Oswald, Ruby has a special relationship with key members of the DPD... "certainly be able to identify him"... and thanks for agreeing with Bill, as his next post would have me pushing the report as genuine and proof of foreknowledge of the name ALEK HIDEL... When I spoke to Bobby Hargis on the evening of March 20, 1994 he was confused. He told me he knew Jack Ruby before the assassination and could recognize him on sight. "If I was ever called to anything involving Jack, I would certainly be able to identify him."

Another statement about an officer knowing RUBY by sight.. There is what appears to be a faked crime report from BLEDSOE on the night of 10/11/63 where PRICE/HARGIS go out to her near midnight and records that JACK RUBY and LEE OSWALD KNOWN AS ALEK HIDEL (sic) were in a fight and destroyed some property... yet at the top are numbers that spell out "U R A FINK" when you replace the numbers with corresponding letters in the alphabet... and there are usually never numbers like that.. Real questions to me are: when was it written, by whom and how do they know about "ALEK HIDEL" ? Warren Commission volume 19 between pages 132 and 134 (Batchelor exhibit 5002) describes both Hargis and White's assignments while on DPD duty. B. Hargis worked the traffic division assigned to solo motorcycle and special enforcement. Hargis worked the 7AM to 3PM shift and his superior was Sgt. R. Smart. White worked 4PM until midnight in the accident prevention division. He reported to Sgt. B.F. Rodgers. When I spoke to Bobby Hargis on the evening of March 20, 1994 he was confused. He told me he knew Jack Ruby before the assassination and could recognize him on sight. "If I was ever called to anything involving Jack, I would certainly be able to identify him." Hargis stated he never worked with J.C. White and didn't remember him. Additionally, he was never, ever assigned to anything but a motorcycle division. "No, I wouldn't respond to anything in a squad car." was his answer.

noted...

Yet somehow Fritz has a 98% conviction rate?

Which film/photo is the one with the arrows Chris?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/K Disk/Kantor Seth/Item 04.pdf. Seth Kantor article claiming that Ruby knew at least 1 of every 3 Dallas policemen in the basement that day... On November 25, 1963, the Houston FBI Office received information from Al Bright, an ex-felon of Corpus Christi, Texas, to the effect that RUBY was the payoff man for the Dallas Police Department, and whenever liquor and gambling raids were to be made on the Dallas underworld, RUBY was always contacted first by some unknown person from the Dallas Police Department. Al Bright obtained this information from Roy William Pike, who had once served a bookkeeper for RUBY, and was one of 12 persons known to have been in telephone contact with RUBY just before the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Roy William Pike was arrested for rape in 1943. Roy William Pike told Al Bright: "I think I spoke with RUBY about his relationship with HOFFA." The FBI interviewed Roy William Pike, who denied having said any of this. J. Edgar Hoover confused the report of Al Bright with that of Roy William Pike, and noted: "Pike was interviewed in connection with the case on November 25, 1963, at which time he alleged that RUBY was friendly with James HOFFA and the syndicate and was a pay- off man of the Dallas Police Department." [FBI 44-24016-1196; FBI report filed 11.25.63 Corpus Christi; FBI #110-44-939 pgs.329, 530, 531, 532] In 1956 RUBY traveled to Hot Springs, Arkansas, a center of gambling and vice in the South. RUBY was accompanied by Jesse Curry, the Chief of Police of Dallas, Texas. After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, a friend of RUBY'S, Eli Schulman, told the FBI that "RUBY had many Dallas cops for friends - in fact he took the Chief of Police to Hot Springs Arkansas, when I don't know." [FBI 44-24016-275; C.Ray Hall WCE 3; FBI DL 44-1639; LL R: BC D-cover page] At 1:30 p.m. RUBY drove to Dealey Plaza where he continued to mingle with the media. RUBY pointed out to a reporter that Captain Will Fritz and Chief Jesse Curry were in the vicinity. RUBY knew both these men. Jesse Curry had put Will Fritz in charge of OSWALD while he was in police custody. Travis Kirk, Officer TIPPIT's attorney, remarked: "Fritz and JACK RUBY were very close friends. JACK RUBY, in spite of his reputation of being a 'hood' was allowed complete run of the Homicide Bureau." And a few items from my files re: Ruby given very lenient treatment by the public officials in Dallas... going back to Westbrook in 1953.. interesting they would write that memo in Dec 1964... Also have the note from Nixon's Congressional in 1947 office requesting Ruby not be asked to testify in the House Committee on un-American Activity in 1947... along with some case dismissals in Dallas for no real good reason...

...

May want to throw WESTBROOK and CROY in on this... looking forward to more from you on this... Thanks Gil

Ask Dorothy Kilgallan .... Just curious now... why is this so important to the LNer? Whether the call was Ruby or not doesn't actually matter much as Fritz lied about being ready whenever to take Oswald down PER CURRY (notice how he offloads the blame for the transfer to CURRY's instructions) when Fritz keeps questioning Oswald until is given a sign by an un-named officer that all was good to go. This happens AFTER the parking garage area (behind where everyone was focused) is stripped clean of police personnel except for an un-named RESERVIST who was told to guard the Freight elevator next to the stairs which Ruby used to get into the basement unseen.. we speculate this Reservist was CROY... Who never did go over to guard that area of the basement... In fact, CROY's affidavit states he believed it was Ruby next to him who he asked to move back well before the car goes up the ramp and everyone surges back into the small area where Oswald was being taken out. Croy does nothing to make anyone aware that Ruby, Ruby was not a reporter or TV man but someone Croy knew did not belong there... and still he does nothing.. in that shadow to the anatomical left of Croy is Ruby.. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, sometime after you came in, you were assigned to guard a particular area of the basement; is that correct?Mr. CROY. No.Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you tell us what you were assigned to do?Mr. CROY. When I came into the city hall, I went to the assembly room, and that is where any initial assignments are made, in the assembly room, making up the muster and the roster of the reserve officers that arrived.Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain there?Mr. CROY. Well, I was in and out of there, between there and the basement.Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain on that duty?Mr. CROY. I never was relieved from that duty. I went in there, but I never was relieved from it.Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you have stated in your letter to Chief Curry of November 26, 1963, in paragraph 3, "I was assigned to the basement and jail office entrance, and my assignment was that of a guard."Mr. CROY. Well, that"was in the entire thing down there is what everyone in the basement was considered a guard at the same time, if you are standing in front of the entrances, elevators, or in the back of the basement.Mr. GRIFFIN. So you never had any particular station of duty there?Mr. CROY. No. I wasn't just assigned a spot and told to stay there.Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did there come a time when you stationed yourself at the foot of the Main Street ramp in the basement?Mr. CROY. Yes. Within a second or so as Oswald comes out. Croy again, knowing it's Ruby makes no move to block him, move him, or say anything to arose suspicion... Just some hoodlum in the basement... sure... We first speculated Ruby had followed the red arrow path but we have film of the car going up the ramp and for many minutes beforehand, no one walked in front of the camera from left to right to get to where Ruby was... plus that path exposed him to many more potential witnesses than just going thru the railing by walking straight.. the notes on the image even says "leaves by 10:15" and "leaves by 11am"... the basement was unguarded along the path Ruby takes in the basement and by cutting thru the parking lot - or even walking around to the small alley that leads directly to that side door - he avoids being seen by the men along Main street. The quoted text is from the HSCA.. most damning being the reversed image telling us how the FBI, DPD never investigated this entrance possibility and was ignored by the WC. The other text describes how DPD Personnel was on that ramp when Ruby had to have come down, and none see the man. Back to the call... it would seem that only Ruby would know that Fritz would wait until signaled to bring Oswald down to be killed in the basement. Fritz provides no protection himself... in fact it seems he just gets out of the way and never bothers to even turn back.. and then has Leavelle C-his-A. Saw the shooting my butt. Y'all can keep dickering about the Grammer call as if anything will change what happened or how the DPD went out of their way to provide Ruby an unobstructed path to Oswald, safeguarded by CROY who knows he's there, knows he doesn't belong there and does nothing... With Dean instrumental in clearing out this path... No wonder he was so quick to throw Vaughn under the bus and push the Main Street ramp as the only possible route. Make the assumption it was someone else calling about Oswald that night... how does that one factual change alter what occurred?

Humes: This is in the report from the House Select Committee on Assassinations, dated August 17, 1977, by Andy Purdy, where he conducted an interview with Dr. Boswell. And I'm now going to quote from Mr. Purdy's words: "He"--and that's referring to Dr. Boswell--"indicated that Dr. Burkley was basically supervising everything that went on in the autopsy room and that the commanding officer was also responding to Burkley's wishes." So we know that FINCK finally said that Military men gave orders... Q: How many other military personnel were present at the autopsy in the autopsy room?A: That autopsy room was quite crowded. It is a small autopsy room, and when you are called in circumstances like that to look at the wound of the President of the United States who is dead, you don't look around too much to ask people for their names and take notes on who they are and how many there are. I did not do so. The room was crowded with military and civilian personnel and federal agents, Secret Service agents, FBI agents, for part of the autopsy, but I cannot give you a precise breakdown as regards the attendance of the people in that autopsy room at Bethesda Naval Hospital.Q: Colonel (FINCK), did you feel that you had to take orders from this Army General that was there directing the autopsy?A: No, because there were others, there were Admirals.Q: There were Admirals?A: Oh, yes, there were Admirals, and when you are a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army you just follow orders, and at the end of the autopsy we were specifically told -- as I recall it, it was by Admiral Kinney, the Surgeon General of the Navy -- this is sub- ject to verification -- we were specifically told not to discuss the case. Q: But you did take orders and did not dissect the throat area?A: Well, these are not direct orders, these are suggestions and directions. I was not told, "I give you a direct order" or that sort of thing.Q: And at the time, Colonel, you were a Lieutenant Colonel, were you not?A: Yes.Q: And there were Admirals and Generals in that room, were there not?

John and I have spoken about it often... and years ago I brought up the idea that it was Shelley with Oswald at the ITM... The similarities are striking, IMO.

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said: No. This is where you have it wrong. I'm simply saying that we don't hear anything from anyone, Grammer or otherwise, that the call that night was made by Jack Ruby, until roughly 25 years later. If Bill fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean, he'd still miss the water... when you miss simple concepts as often as he does all he has left are these vapid posts so his life is not so totally meaningless... Poor Bill... Let's all gather round and give him a big hug... he remains so starved for attention, he posts... well, y'all see what he posts... The testimony of J. W. Fritz was taken at 9 a.m., on July. 14, 1964. (DJ: So Bill, to you 1964 was 25 years after 1963? well done big brain, well done ) Mr. FRITZ. During the night on Saturday night, I had a call at my home from uniformed captain, Captain Frazier, I believe is his name, he called me out at home and told me they had had some threats and he had to transfer Oswald.And I said, well, I don't know. I said there has been no security setup, and the chief having something to do with this transfer and you had better call him, because---so he told me he would.Mr. BALL. Did you think----Mr. FRITZ. He called me back then in a few minutes and he told me he couldn't get the chief and told me to leave him where he was. I don't think that transferring him at night would have been any safer than transferring, may I say this?Mr. BALL. Yes.Mr. FRITZ. Any safer than transferring him during the day. I have always felt that that was Ruby who made that call, I may be wrong, but he was out late that night and I have always felt he might have made that call, if two or three. of those officers had started out with him they may have had the same trouble they had the next morning.

You can't fix stupid, guys... As much as you'd like to, there are some who do what they do on this forum simply for the joy of feeling as if they got you off topic... The FBI generated something called COINTELPRO as a guideline as to how to go about disrupting forums, gatherings, lectures or any other agenda for which THEY feel it necessary. Please Google the term and recognize the tactics... This forum has been under attack in one way or another for as long as I've been here... but not by the likes of Von Pein who does his best given the material with which he has to work... No, the people who use these tactics offer little to the members beyond the pleasure of seeing their name on a forum... their most prized accomplishment is to be taken seriously and to be argued with... a no win situation as their position is not real, their arguments not sincere... It's not hard to tell wheat from shaft. It pains me to see intelligent people such as yourselves get dragged down into the hole these people have dug for themselves by simply accepting the WCR as if nothing has occurred since Sept 1964. The evidence offered in the POS was never vetted, never cross-examined, never even rendered authentic... So we must pity these poor fools for having to defend the indefensible day after day to the point we all see now as comical. But please, don't feed the idiots... let them pace back and forth in their cages hoping someone comes in to feed them, then they can attack... Some of the people in the past even were paid provocateurs with endless hours to waste and your time and energy the target. I'm as guilty as the next for engaging... yet I doubt highly that members are so intellectually starved they need the intellectually bankrupt to serve as counterpoint. I bring this up as it appears there are more than a handful of posters with nothing to do but try to convince you the good ole US of A never had political conspiracies and never will... none being a better example of this than the JFK/Tippit/Oswald murders... so spit in to the wind, pull on Superman's cape... but don't believe for a second that anyone is being convinced of anything here... Either you get it and want to understand, or you don't and playing the fool is all that's left... this isn't Twitter, so no, their opinions are not worth much of anything, their incredulity over the events don't change them... count how many "why would he/they" or "does it make sense" statements these posters use... for that is the only argument left... fighting the evidence with opinions hasn't worked so far, and surprise-surprise-surprise, it's not going to start any time soon. Good luck COINTELPRO Hopefully this can help raise awareness of the different behaviors we've all experienced. Our POV has to be maintained - we are NOT attempting to PROVE the existence of a conspiracy... a foregone conclusion.... all we are doing now is identifying the players and the tactics... with a good chunk of those tactics listed right here. 1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum 2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation 3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist 4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent) 5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression ______________________________________________________________________________________ Here are a few from #2: 25 Rules... see if you don't recognize them... 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues. 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

There is plenty of counterpoint to 1. a dog even being in the car, and 2. if there was, it was not Sheba... I've read quite a few things about it... and even if Sheba was in the car, can you just imagine the options left to Ruby should he decide not to kill Oswald as ordered to? I'd think Sheba was the least of his worries at that point... Yet, read what you can and make up your own minds... What amazed us as we learned it was how the basement cops were cleared out 15-30 minutes before he was brought down... just about when Ruby arrives at the Western Union... and would easily be seen from that same 3rd floor window For those who may have missed the post... here is the pass thru which had been covered over. and below that is the side door and 3rd floor windows looking out over the parking lot and to the western union office around the corner at the far right

"distracting" being the key here... if they can't convince, then be a PITA for as long as possible... Barlow put it best.... "Aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know"