David Josephs

Ok... so Oswald did not kill Tippit; on this we agree. Which in turn creates a domino effect related to the evidence of his doing it with the pistol they claimed was his. https://www.kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsPistol.pdf. This explains my pov better than anything I can write here. And speaking of Tippit... what is your explanation for the disappearing wallet and ID attributed to a wallet found in Irving that day? From where Brewer's store was, seeing anyone do anything at the theater would be extremely difficult... and of course there is the Tommy Rowe and IBM dudes aspect to that story. Help me understand what you mean though. A number of DPD reports call out an arrest of someone in the balcony... do you suppose that was the man taken out the back in front of Haire, yet disappears?

Where do you get the idea that whoever actually killed Tippit went to the theater? Oswald went to the theater and by looking at his activities there it was obvious he was looking to meet someone. Why else does he have the ripped dollar bills which disappear from the case as soon as they are found? Why is Ruby at the theater? You were aware of that, yes? Who do they arrest in the balcony? As to stealing a vehicle from out the back door, there was a pickup truck in the alley behind the theater when the DPD gets there that they checked and thought was strange... and then of course we have Bernard Haire who sees "Oswald" taken out the back into the alley and driven away. Help us understand please

I brought up much more than Hawkeyeworks - ie where did the Rowley film go after Rowley... and where is it now? how does an automatic counter skip a number without explanation? And what about Max's note? Chris, instead of dealing with the ancient zfilm anomalies we've already debunked repeatedly over the years... Deal with what I posted please. Can you address any of the issues I specifically point out or we just going to ask and answer our own questions now? Explain the 4 or 5 things in my post... and maybe go read Chris Davidson's threads and work to understand what he's accomplished. He discussed Costella's work as well. (Costello was the guy who worked with Abbott; Costella help us better understand the zfilm given us was not from Zapruder) I majored in math and statistics and made my career on same and STILL had to work especially hard to understand his work... His grasp of the mathematics involved is unrivaled. And how he illustrates what the FBI/SS did to insure one thing matched another is superb. If you are dismissing this work without fully appreciating it, I think you do yourself a disservice. Respectfully. DJ

So ducking into the theater was already planned out at the Tippit scene? Interesting. The man can go in virtually any direction and instead confines himself in a closed space with little opportunity for escape. Please tell us more

To leave incriminating evidence like the bogus wallet, to add to Oswald's guilt. .38 special shells were use by police departments across the US at the time This compares the bullets supposedly found on him and their smudged sides, and bullets kept in a police belt.

Hi Michael... As I understand it, he was shot more in the stomach yet in the ambulance on the way to Parkland the EMT supposedly gives him CPR/Compressions which actually makes the matter for Oswald much worse. No poison bullets... reign it in conspiracy dude... lol (jk) What has always struck me is the lack of any apparent blood on Oswald... granted the sweater is black but here it is hiked up a bit and nothing, anywhere. Although now I look again, the left side of the sweater does look wet...

Thanks Bob. Do you know if he was on McCoy's side or Angleton's re: Nosenko?

There are estimates he knew over 50% of the force... hundreds of DPD men were aware of Ruby with many many of them much closer than that. Fritz and Curry disavow knowing him, of course, we can't have that now can we? And we have this referring to 1953, Westbrook and Ruby. Got to wonder how an HR guy gets to make those decisions unless it came from above... more below IN REF TO WESTBROOK PUTNAM WAS IN THE CAR WITH PIERCE AND MAXEY Westbrook above with Morales in Vietnam after he left the DPD. .

That's Patrick DEAN... the first and only DPD person to claim Ruby had come down the ramp; and a xxxx from the word go. Sgt. Dean said, “When I got back to the city hail, I contacted Lieutenant Pierce and advised him--that's when I talked to Pierce about my conversation with Ruby, and I told him that I had talked to Ruby and that he told me that--how he had gotten into the basement, which was breaking security, and that Officer R. E. Vaughn was the man involved…. He (Pierce) notified the captain (Talbert) of this.” Putnam, in the car with Pierce and Maxey going up the Main street ramp & was the same man Westbrook claims had the keys to the car which honked in front of 1026 Beckley...#207. small freaking world. Dean claimed Sorrels was in the room when Ruby told him this. Griffin knew better and called him on his BS. DEAN FAILS TO ID RESERVIST TAKING BROCK’S PLACE STICKS TO STORY HE SAW RUBY – AND RUBY TOLD HIM ABOUT RAMP GRIFFIN THINKS DEAN HIDING MATERIAL FACTS ABOUT ENTRANCE, THAT DEAN MAY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STOP RUBY GRIFFIN/HUBERT SEND MEMO TO RANKIN FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION DEAN COMPLAINS TO WADE ABOUT GRIFFIN WADE CALLS NEW POTUS JOHNSON WHO PRESSURES WARREN Texas attorney general Waggoner Carr accompanied Dean to Washington DC when he met and shared his complaints with Earl Warren about Griffin’s behavior. Griffin was not allowed to confront Dean at the Warren-Dean meeting In his report to Chief Curry two days later, on November 26, Dean said that Ruby told him “in the presence of Mr. Sorrels that he (Ruby) had entered the basement through the ramp entering on Main Street.” Dean told the WC about their conversation. Ruby allegedly told Dean, "I walked in the Main Street ramp…I have just been to the Western Union to mail a money order to Fort Worth…. I walked from the Western Union to the ramp…. I saw Sam Pierce drive out of the basement. At that time, at the time the car drove out is when I walked in.” Mr. HUBERT. Now, subsequently, of course, it turned out that Ruby shot Oswald. Did you know him prior to that time? Lieutenant PIERCE. No. Mr. HUBERT. Ruby? Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes, sir; I have known him 12 or 13 years, I guess. Mr. HUBERT. So, you would recognize him without any difficulty whether he had a hat on or not? Lieutenant PIERCE. I don't think I would have any trouble recognizing him if I saw him. Mr. HUBERT. You did not, see him in that crowd to your right? Lieutenant PIERCE. No; I didn't see him that day at all. Agent Sorrels, head of the Secret Service in Dallas, reported that Ruby “said no such thing.” Mr. HUBERT. And he said he came in through the ramp, I believe you said. Mr. SORRELS. That is right. SORRELS. Now, I might put in here as an explanation that these are in response to questions that Captain Fritz was asking him. That he had this gun for 2 or 3 years. That George Senator was a roommate. That he came in the basement--the word "basement" is not shown here he "came in off Main Street, off of the ramp"

I was 17 when this hit the theaters... and a regular watcher of the Flying Circus "It's just a flesh wound." "We want, a shrubbery"

Here's the actual link Joe... yours just brings you back to this page. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10425-10008.pdf Seems to me Murphy is another CIA agent posing as a State Dept official... but I am nowhere near as well-versed on that as others here. the document goes on to request to not reveal the Jan 21 exec session transcript pages 63-73 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1326#relPageId=63

Sgt. Putnam assigned Officer Roy Vaughn to guard the Main St. ramp and obtain identification from anyone who wanted to use the ramp for entry into the basement. Vaughn began his assignment at 9:30 AM and stood two to three feet inside the very narrow ramp. Vaughn had known Ruby since 1959 and insisted that Ruby did not go down the Main St. ramp. At 11:18 AM, as Ruby was leaving the Western Union office, Lt. Rio Pierce, accompanied by Sgt. James Putnam and Sgt. Billy Joe Maxey, drove an unmarked police car up the ramp and onto Main St. All of these officers knew Jack Ruby, and all said that nobody, including Ruby, came down the ramp as the car was moving up the ramp and onto Main St. Sgt. Don Flusche was the “watch commander” and was parked across the street when he watched the unmarked police car drive onto Main St at 11:18 AM. Flusche knew Jack Ruby for years and said that Ruby did not walk down Main St., was not anywhere the ramp, and did not go down the ramp. Harry Tasker, a cab driver, was hired by a reporter to wait outside the police building from 9:40 AM to 12:25 PM to be available to carry film of Oswald’s transfer. Tasker parked his cab across the street from the Main St. ramp and stood at the entrance to the basement 5 minutes before Oswald was shot. Tasker saw the police car drive up the ramp and leave the building but did not see anyone who resembled Ruby go down the ramp. UPI reporter Terrance McGarry was standing on the northern portion of the Main St. ramp 5 minutes before Oswald was shot. McGarry did not see anyone resembling Ruby come down the ramp. Detective W. J. Harrison watched the car driven by Lt. Pierce go up the ramp and said nobody came down the ramp.

11/24/63 2:15/2:30/3:00AM CALLS MADE TO SHERIFF, DPD AND FBI SPEAK OF KILLING OSWALD DURING XFER DPD CALL ANSWERED BY BILLY GRAMMER GRAMMERS AFFIDAVIT GIVEN PERSONALLY TO CURRY STATING THIS WAS RUBY, DISAPPEARS AND GRAMMER NEVER TESTIFIES GRAMMER SAYS CALLER KNEW DETAILED PLANS OF TRANSFER ONLY AVAILABLE TO DPD/FBI 4:00AM RUBY ARRIVES HOME 8:00AM WBAP CREWMAN RICHEY ID’s RUBY IN FRONT OF CITY HALL ALSO AT 8AM – ELNORA PITTS, RUBY’S MAID, CALLS TO CONFIRM HER CLEANING THAT DAY “DOES NOT SOUND LIKE RUBY” MRS. PITTS SAID, "He didn't talk like--he never did sound like hisself." The only other person known to be in Ruby's apartment that Sunday morning was George Senator, Ruby's roommate 9:30AM PLANO TX PREACHER SPEAKS WITH RUBY IN CITY HALL ELEVATOR 10:00AM RICHEY SEES RUBY AGAIN OUT FRONT 10:19AM RECORDS SHOW THIS IS THE TIME CARLIN CALLS RUBY LONG DISTANCE PRIOR TO 10:20AM GRAMMER TELLING CURRY ABOUT RUBY’s CALL YET CONVEYS THIS TO NO ONE CURRY SUGGESTS TO ASST CHIEF BATCHELOR AND DEPUTY CHIEF STEVENSON THAT OSWALD BE TRANSPORTED IN AN ARMORED CAR – BOTH MEN AGREE 10:20AM CURRY TELLS PRESS OSWALD WILL BE XFERED TO COUNTY JAIL BY ARMORED TRUCK 10:30AM RUBY ASKS WBAP CREWMAN IRA WALKER “HAS HE BEEN BROUGHT DOWN YET? RUBY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN AT HIS APARTMENT TO RECEIVE CALL FROM KAREN CARLIN HIS ALIBI WAS FAKE AT 10:45AM BROCK, WHO PERSONALLY KNEW RUBY, WAS REASSIGNED TO TRAFFIC DUTY AND LEFT WORSLEY AS ONLY DPD STAFF GUARDING ENTIRE DARKENED PARKING AREA BEFORE 11:00AM WORSLEY WAS ALSO SENT TO WORK TRAFFIC AN UNIDENTIFIED RESERVE OFFICER TAKES BROCK’S PLACE? CROY is a Reserve Officer Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't understand. You have said here, if I understand it in your affidavit, that you saw a man whom you believed to be Jack Ruby. Mr. CROY. I believed when I wrote that up it was him. Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, have you since come to believe that that man wasn't Jack Ruby? Mr. CROY. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. You still believe that man was Jack Ruby? Mr. CROY. To myself, I still believe it was Jack Ruby Mr. Griffin: Who checked the stairway door in the garage that leads up into the municipal building? Mr. Dean: The stairway door? Mr. Griffin: Yes. Mr. Dean: I don't know of any door that leads up into the--the stairway? Mr. Griffin: There is a stairway…. over where the elevators are Mr. Dean: Oh, Oh, yes Mr. Griffin: Who checked that door? Mr. Dean: Sergeant Putnam checked it once and I checked it once and it was locked. Mr. Griffin: Did you know at the time you checked it that even though the door was locked from the outside, it could be opened from the inside? Mr. Dean: [No response.] Both BROCK and WORSLEY were stationed between the red and green lines below. Brock by the stairs (who was well acquainted with Ruby) and Worsley in the middle of the parking area who also knew Ruby very well... both men removed within 15 and 30 mins of Ruby coming. this is the front of the 1st floor stairs.. Ruby enters a similar door on the opposite side to the left of the service elevator in the distance... remove this building and we are facing directly at the Western Union office HSCA CONCLUSION: THE “ALLEY” ROUTE WAS THE MOST LIKELY ALTERNATIVE FBI/DPD DID NOT CONSIDER ALLEY ENTRANCE WC IGNORED THE POSSIBILITY ENTIRELY STILL DOES NOT CONSIDER TIMING BASED ON RUBY’S MOVEMENTS CONVEYED TO FRITZ WHO SHUTS DOWN INTERROGATION TO BRING OSWALD DOWN… On the page prior to above in the HSCA report: Capt. William Westbrook, a member of the DPD special investigative unit (to ID who saw what in the basement), indicated in 1978 that the alley door was not checked that morning (287) (although his basis for this statement was not clear)

Let me also ask you about this film sent by Max PHILLIPS It gets to Rowley the evening of the 22nd/early 23rd... then what? Can you offer us anything that then traces this film beyond Rowley that night? If not as I assume, what's to say this was not actually 0184 then sent to Hawkeyeworks, then brought to Dino Sat night? edit: 0183 does not even appear on the "original" film nor is it in the right place if reproduced accurately, in the SS copy... only 1 SS copy.

Not to derail your OP but what was the 1 out of 10 Z film alterations that you could not explain away? I'd beg to differ here Chris... Davidson's work destroys the authenticity of the zfilm available to us. Horne's work with Dino and Homer as well. Then there is 0184 on a sequential counter which simply is not possible... and oh about 4 other spots in the film that are not physically possible. Have you seen the original's film map.. 6 splices and you contend no alterations? uh, ok. There is simply no possible way this is the out of the camera original and it would sure be nice to not have to regurgitate this every time someone thinks otherwise. Common sense... if someone handed you this film in this state - you'd conclude it was original out of the camera? Really? Z also had the best first day copy... that makes 5 total films, not 4.

I believe that's Newman... here they are just afterward

I was curious whether the members felt John and I adequately showed how the DPD (Dean, Pierce, Putnam, et al) stripped the security from the parking area between those stairs and where Oswald was being brought out... and with the help of Croy and Westbrook informed Fritz that Ruby was on his way. Within 4 minutes Oswald is basically handed to Ruby on a platter with Dean throwing Vaughn under the bus. This was an earlier version of our thoughts but we since revised adding it was very likely he turned right and went around the corner, then down the alley to the Annex door to avoid being seen at all on Main street. We reference a number of men who were on Main near the ramp for a variety of reasons... none said they saw Ruby. Dean fwiw is actually standing by the armored car, #27, and was not able to see very much of anything from where he was. Identifying any major or minor flaws would be greatly appreciated... we understand we do not have direct evidence linking WESTBROOK to notifying Fritz about Ruby's approach yet the obvious absence of much about Westbrook from the rest of the weekend is a bit strange. after his escapades on Friday he just seems to disappear. The alley I think he took... and we can see the "alley" in the overhead shot leading to the door.... with the 3rd floor windows as a perfect vantage point all in empty court/interview rooms due to it being Sunday.

LOL... oh I definitely did. Sometimes just need a break from the yahoos. Too many great people here to stay away for long though

Thanks guys.. I stayed so focused on the 26th thru the 4th I never did dive deep into where DAP was prior. That he arrives on the 7th and all hell breaks loose on the 8th and beyond...AND his past as a CI operative, just seem obvious his stamp on this whole Mexico thing. I notice too that it does not mention HUNT being there, ever. Kind of hard to believe

Thanks Larry.. that's too bad - I hope they can resurrect it. The following Thanks to Bart's Anatomy of Interrogations... Timeline of Oswald’s interrogations and transfers. Nov 22nd. 14:15 - 14:20 "Talked to" by officers Gus F. Rose and Richard S. Stovall. 14:25 - 16:05 Interrogation of Oswald, Office of Captain Will Fritz. Present: Fritz, Boyd, Sims and Thomas Kelley, inspector of the Secret Service 15:15 Hosty and Bookhout join Captain Fritz. 16:05 Oswald is being interrogated by Forrest Sorrels of the Secret Service who does this in the back of Fritz’s office. This lasts up to ten minutes. Jim Hosty takes Sorrels aside and has a word regarding sensitive information. Hosty of the F.B.I. is from that moment not involved any more, being present with the interrogations. 16:10 Oswald’s first line-up with Helen Markham to ID him. He Is escorted by detectives Boyd and Stovall. 16:20 - 18:20 Second Interrogation of Oswald, Captain Fritz’s Office. 18:20 Oswald’s second line-up. 19:00 Manning Clements interrogates Oswald about his personal background. 19:40 Oswald’s third line-up, (copy/paste the rest of this entry failed) 19:55 Oswald’s interrogation continued by Manning Clements. 19:55 Third Interrogation, Captain Fritz’s Office. 22:00 - 23:20 "Talked To" by Police Officer John Adamcik and FBI Agent Manning Clements. Nov 23rd. 10:30 - 11:30 Interrogation, Capt. Will Fritz’s Office. Boyd and Hall of the DPD are inside the office as well. US Marshal Robert Nash, FBI SA James Bookhout and Secret Service agents Forrest Sorrels, David B. Grant and Thomas J. Kelley are also present. 14:15 Oswald’s first line-up of that day in front of William Whaley and William W. Scoggings. 15:00 - Oswald is making his first attempt to call John Hurt. 16:30 – 18:30 Interrogation Capt. Will Fritz’s office. Nov 24th. 09:30- 11:15 Interrogation Captain Fritz’s office. Also present is Harry Dean Holmes. 11:20 Oswald is being transferred and subsequently shot and killed by Jack Ruby.

Devil in the details my friend. and the breadth of knowledge to know when something doesn't fit. Maybe just me... the lancer link doesn't want to connect? This site can’t be reached www.jfklancer.com took too long to respond. Try: Checking the connection Checking the proxy and the firewall ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT

Mrs. PAINE - He was definitely planning to leave New Orleans after we left.Mr. JENNER - Promptly?Mrs. PAINE - Yes.Mr. JENNER - You had that definite impression?Mrs. PAINE - Yes.Mr. JENNER - And he put it in terms of leaving New Orleans to go to Houston, or what was the other town?Mrs. PAINE - Possibly Philadelphia.Mr. JENNER - Possibly Philadelphia. Now, during all that weekend, was there any discussion of anybody going to Mexico?Mrs. PAINE - No.Mr. JENNER - Was the subject of Mexico discussed at any time and in any respect?Mrs. PAINE - Not at any time nor any respect.Mr. JENNER - On the trip back to Irving, Tex., did Marina say anything on the subject of Mexico?Mrs. PAINE - No.

Hi Ben, It has yet to be proven that a single item of incriminating evidence against the man who did not shoot anyone, is authentic and would be admitted into evidence as REAL; by definition it can't be as he simply did none of the things attributed to him. CE2001 appears to make ce573 a prop in further establishing his guilt I've always had a weird sense that Oswald here may actually know he was being railroaded and fell on his sword as part of the plan... when he is told at that press conference that he had indeed been charged with JFK's killing, he seems aware and resigned to his fate. Only a gut feeling and possibility... his reaction to me says it all. His being charged with JFK was just not a possibility before he is told.

I was looking for any mention of CE2001 in this thread... as it truly makes CE573 kind of moot.. That simply cannot be the Walker bullet

I'd like to believe I shed some light on Oswald not having traveled to Mexico, not even being in Mexico at the time the CIA places him there... and the FBI covering up that fact for them, as best they could. And I don't see any of this as horn tooting... all we did was to find that the Evidence IS the Conspiracy in virtually each and every direction one looks, and bring those facts to light.