David Josephs

And here are the footnoted FBI reports we've been discussing found in the FBI files in various folders which took some time and digging to finally locate... ROCK ISLAND - the recipient of the pistol - has no record of that serial number for a .38 special, as mentioned in the final document below, is concerning since we'd never know if this was just more FBI double-speak, or a reality. What's even more concerning is that in the previous sentence, the same Dep Sheriff of ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL (AMSWE-SMD-I) George MAYERNICK says there is no record of V510210. The pistol attributed to Oswald's killing of Tippit which was sent from Century Int'l Arms of Canada to Seaport in Los Angeles.. the same company who shipped a FC 40" Carcano with serial #2766, no prefix, in June 1962. There is no mention of V510210 up to that point in this discussion so one has to wonder why it is included here... and since both show no record, the significance remains unknown at this point.

As I read thru the rest of the argument I find wild speculation one after the other as well as simple incorrect information. The first shot was not to the head at all but three shots to the stomach, one hitting a button. The temple shot eerily has virtually the same trajectory as the frontal JFK shot, right to left as it traveled thru... and as TATUM describes the final shot, it appears to be "execution style" insuring the man is dead with a shot thru the head. Are you aware that at the time virtually all DPD officers carried a 38 special? In fact the same exact revolver Oswald is attributed with having was used by virtually all the police departments in the US at the time? The fact the one in the bag was a .38 special and Tippit was killed with a .38 special, and a police car was seen in the alley perpendicular to Tippit's car at the time of the killing does not ipso facto mean the revolver in the bag had anything to do with the Tippit murder. And then somehow you offer that Ruby-Senator-Crawfard, or one of them, is the source for this bag being placed/found where it was... before Crafard skips town. Greg, you must be aware that there is a laundry list of suspicious people who "left town" immediately after the assassination, right? BAYLOR UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER Wednesday, Feb. 1st, 1978. OFFICE OF PHOTO DEPARTMENT OF HOBIEZELLE HOSPITAL 3500 GASTON AVE, DALLAS, TEXAS. Investigators Jack Moriarty and Joe Basteri, menders of the Select Committee on Assassinations, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington., D.C. are in the office of the Director of Photography of the hospital mentioned above, and Mr. JACK RAY TATUM, The Director, has been interviewed with regard to his first hand knowledge, of the Fatal shooting of Officer J.D. Tippit, here in Dallas, Friday, November 22nd, 1963. Mr. Tatum will reiterate his statement to be reduced to typewritten form (By Moriarty) "Mr. Tatum, if you'll repeat your statement slowly, I'll attempt to type it." Although I did not remember the exact time I remember it was early in the afternoon on Friday, November 22, 1963. I was driving XXXX north on Denver and stopped at 10th St. when I first saw the squad car and men walking on the sidewalk near the squad car. Both the squad car and this young white male were coming in my direction (East on 10th Street). At the time I was just approaching the squad car, I noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car. This young white male was looking into the squad car from the passenger side. The next thing I knew I heard something that sounded like gun shots as I approached the intersection. (10th & Patton). I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next, this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson Mr. BELIN - How many shots did you hear all told? Mr. BENAVIDES - I heard three shots. Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear? Mr. SCOGGINS. Three or four, in the neighborhood. They was fast. Mr. BELIN. They were fast shots? Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; they were fast. ELBERT AUSTIN, 8317 Fourth Avenue, Dallas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was working on a construction job at the intersection of Tenth and Denver Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised he was a brick mason's helper and was assisting in the construction of an apartment house. Me stated sometime after 1:00 PM he was on a scaffold in front of the aforementioned apartment house when he heard approximately two or three shots JIMMY EARL BURT, General Delivery stated that on November 22, 1963 he was living at 505 E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas which is the residence of his father—in—law, DAVID SHAEFER. He and a friend WILLIAM SMITH were sitting in his brother, BILLY BURT's house located at the corner of 9th and Denver Streets, Dallas. It was some time after lunch when they heard two gunshots. He and SMITH immediately ran from the house toward his car, a 1952 two—tone blue Ford which was parked facing south on Denver Street. As they ran from the house they heard four more shots making a total of six. Mr. BALL. What did you hear at that time? Mr. CALLAWAY. I heard what sounded to me like five pistol shots. Mr. BALL. Five pistol shots? Mr. CALLAWAY. Five shots, yes, sir. FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream The officer was lying on his side with his head in front of the left front head light of his car. His gun was out of the holster and lying by his side Mr. DULLES. Plural? How many did you hear? Mrs. DAVIS. Just two, they were pretty close together. (both sisters say the same thing) Mr. BALL. How many? Mr. GUINYARD. I heard three. FRANCIS KINNETH, 1425 Caidwell, Dallas, Texas, advised he was employed on a construction job at the intersection of Denver and Tenth Street, Dallas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. He advised at approximately 1:00 PM he had heard approximately two or three shots L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear? Mr.REYNOLDS. I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. Mr. JACK RAY TATUM : I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street.

Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. And I believe the different times that some of the previous witnesses had given the lawyer, and I come to the agreement it must have been about between 4:30 and 5 o'clock that he called me.Mr. HUBERT. What is your best recollection now? That is what we want to get.Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's disregard what other people have told you to suggest what the time is, and try to think about your own activities. As I recall, you testified that you talked for 2 or 3 hours with a girl on the telephone.Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.Mr. GRIFFIN. And then you read for a while, and then you apparently started to doze off, to go to sleep.Mr. CRAFARD. I believe the other time, the time element I used yesterday would be more of a correct time than this.Mr. HUBERT. Tell us just your recollection right now today.Mr. CRAFARD. I would say between about 3:30 and 4:30.In the same paragraph further down, closer towards the bottom. "When he got to the car, George, Ruby's roommate, was also there and they drove out on the Stemmons Freeway." I believe in this testimony here the Stemmons Freeway was more of a suggested name to me than anything else. I would like to dearly state I am definitely not positive of that sign.Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe you testified also yesterday that it was the Central Expressway.Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. I believe it was on the Central Expressway. Greg, Without source citations it is very hard to understand how there'd be so much conflict between what you say he said, and what the record shows he said. So I found where you got your information in CRAFARD Ex 5226 below. Yet as we see above, he recants this report by the FBI in this area telling us something completely different. Your self-confessed hitman associate of Ruby offers information with about as much reliability as James Files. cause as we both know, the word of a mafia hitmen is gold when it comes to evidence we can hang our hats on... right? At no point does STEMMONS and HALL even come close to each other... so sadly, it appears the hypothesis has some serious hurdles to overcome right out of the gate.

Pat... can you define your "1st shot" please. I've always been of the mind that a shot was fired just as they completed the turn which missed badly kicking up concrete seen by a number of people circa extant 156/157 around the "break" in the film. With the acknowledged first shot within a few frames either way of extant 207 - another significant break in the film. Above, I believe, is Hickey's reaction to that 1st bullet hitting the concrete. I don't have the names of the witnesses at my ready, sorry. As to shots after that not missing, I agree entirely except for the Tague bullet. I think the Tague bullet being so wide was the result of a shot from a lower elevation missing when JFK was moved by other striking bullets. I also seem to remember that Davidson's work confirms a shot fired at about extant 157 . I'd need to confirm though.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk.uncensored/c/RKooFwe9vl8 Raymond unread, Feb 21, 2009, 5:51:07 PM The Paper Bag Revolver The first shot (a diversionary shot from Jim Braden's . 38 cal pistol into the air) drew the crowd and the authorities away from the building. There are still several questions to be answer regarding the revolver and the FBI investigation. (DJ: another interesting hypothesis related to the same pistol) Second Gun or Second Guessing? The Story of the Revolver in the Paper Bag By Bill Adams === FLAT, WILLIEOn Nov 25, 1963, FBI report of Dallas Patrolman J. Raz bringing into Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, Serian # 893265. It has been found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat. In 1963, there was NO "Flat" in Texas. There was a Willis Earl Flatt, 1023 Mount Auburn Ave., Dallas, TX 75223-1533 (214) 827-0382. In 1963, he was a mechanic at Southwest Coach Company on East Northwest Highway. He is living in same house on Mount Auburn in 1996.FBI Dallas Field Office SA to FBI Dallas Field Office SAC, 89-43-636

EDIT: kinda confused here Greg... you started this thread less than a year ago... why start anew when we need to expand on what you started? Maybe because Allen LOWE challenged you as I am here? His point was facts alone do not make a hypothesis true. Context and connection within those facts helps a lot. As I mention below... I'd like to find if there is anything more... If there was nothing new to post in this last 10 months on the subject, maybe we can find some, or just say thank you for a nicely constructed hypothesis. Using the footnotes from the linked article to search for the docs themselves I find this mention of it and the below link to what appears to be these documents reproduced in their entirety. The Tippit murder is near and dear to the work I do with John A so we are always interested in hearing and investigating items related. I try to stay away from conclusions not supported by evidence.. hypotheses are great yet they are only the beginning of the journey, not statements of fact until they proven in context. From my reading of the above, I fail to see how this pistol in a bag is being connected to Ruby and Craford beyond the circumstantial offerings. FWIW Craford had no teeth yet did indeed bear a resemblance to Ozzie from certain angles. Again Greg, a great hypothesis but little is offered to support it... what people "could" have done is not the same as what they actually did. Dallas was not some podunk town but a huge city with more than 1 crime perpetrated between 11/22 and 11/24. I think your hypothesis is a solid one and I'd like to take some time and dig into it, if you'll bear with me as I do so and will get back to you. I'd love to find the connecting pieces in support of this find. Stay tuned. https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-11238.html Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon. Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99] http://jfkassassinationindex.blogspot.com/2011/08/h.html HANDGUN Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber Weapon, SN V510210 (LHO's gun). Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber revolver, SN 893265 (gun found on Grassy Knoll at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63). This was an error. Gun was found at Ross and Lamar streets by one Willie Flat. The HSCA test-fired a .38 Caliber pistol from the Grassy Knoll (see HSCA, Vol II, pp. 51, 102, 120). CD 205, pp. 130-131 (LHO's gun); FBI 62-109060-485, FBI 62-109060-638, FBI 62-109060-857, FBI 62-109060-858 (gun found at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63 on Grassy Knoll in Dealey Plaza); JFK Collection List, pg. 23 (AMKW 61); FBI 89-43-636 https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/3miahnPwzwM (This is where the above reports appear to have been reproduced thanks to B Brown) On Nov.23,1963 Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery Bureau of the Dallas Police Department a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson, Serial number 893265...had been found near the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat....

I thought so re Connally... It makes sense to me that on 11/22 all three would have looked the same - far right. The case number is written on the other two while Fritz signs the bottom - which of course could have been anytime after the fact - which based on what we see on the middle copy - may very well have been the case in line with your "making it more official" You're amazingly good at finding things.. any chance you can set your sights on what the "ID Number 54018" might reference and lead to, as that last entry on the copy on the left?

Certainly anyone who in 2023 claims that Oswald is guilty of any of these murders.... or the Evidence we have is in any way indicative of what occurred... is simply not able to deal in the realm of reality, has any real sense of history, or understands the reach and power of the military industrial congressional complex in the mid-60's. I'm certainly not here to pull a Charles Drago on anyone - he and I had our direct confrontations despite our agreeing on so much - I just feel, as with the case of the flat-earthers and moon-landing deniers, it's time to move away from conclusions which have no basis in reality or are not supported by anything which can be considered real evidence not easily dismissed with the most cursory of analysis. fwiw - I now have a slightly used soapbox for sale, cheap.

Nothing like a dose of good advice... Thanks Michael

I get you Steve... My concern arrises from the fact that all three appear to be carbon copies of each other based on the image at the far right which has none of those numbers. Separating them and recording different events on different copies must have served some purpose.. yet maybe I just read too much into it in the case. When the box at the top right is filled in with the "63-#####" it matches the middle copy so that too must have been a carbon, but then these 2 copies take different paths since the middle copy does not have any Fritz signatures even on the 22nd. Every little thing takes so much effort just to wrap one's head around it... ugh.

If you haven't examined the issues I mentioned, then the above statement only applies to ancient history. I you haven't taken the time to understand Davidson's work, the above statement is truly an unfounded opinion based on impression of analysis for which you have no insight - yet. When you take the time to address what has been discovered in the last 5 years about the film, as well as the counter issue, the Rowley film issue, NPIC compartmentalized projects with different briefing board results, the blatant lies of Shaneyfelt and the creation and immediate removal of the Gauthier Dealey Plaza model showing the last shot hitting at the foot of the steps well past 313 - but as a WCR exhibit, that was hidden. In the following I go into how the FBI would have created this model by using the information available to them at the time... you might this quite illuminating, and while not nearly as correct or up to date as Davidson's subsequent work - I wrote this many years ago - I think it makes some decent points. Below that is the link and description page for WCD 298 innocuously called: Commission Document 298 - FBI Letter from Director of 20 Jan 1964 with Visual Aides Brochure and rightfully so for it lays out the 3 shot scenario Hoover described on day 1 but which had to be changed to 2 shots. This is CE585 which is the revised 2 shots hitting scenario supporting the Silly Bullet Theory. Debunking 30 year old hypotheses does not equate to "9 of 10 explained away"... You're too good at this Chris not to thoroughly acquaint yourself with present day analysis. I'd be interested in how you "explain away" these things as easy as Moorman in the street... https://www.kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsFBIZ313.pdf and part 3 https://www.kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsWDC298.pdf https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10699#relPageId=1

According to Mary Ferrell's chronology he arrives at the ER at 11:32 but is not pronounced dead until 1:07. According to his testimony - and I have no reason to assume he is embellishing anything here - he died on the table after what appears to be some pretty heroic efforts. Reading thru, Oswald was terribly messed up by the bullet. I'm not a doctor so I don't know if they could have known by their efforts if air was injected into him at any point... Maybe one of our members can chime in on that. DJ Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe the operative procedures employed on Mr. Oswald please?Dr. PERRY - Yes. From the nature of the trajectory of the wound and the nature of the path of the bullet on the other side it was obvious that it had traversed major vessels, the aorta and vena cava. The aorta and vena cava, the heart area, and then a midline incision was made. A rapid prep with iodine was done, the patient was draped. An incision was carried rapidly into the abdominal cavity at which time we noticed approximately 3 litres of free blood which is an excess of three quarts. This was removed by suction, lap packs and by just moving it out in the form of clots with the hands. It was noted there was considerable bleeding appearing in both the right upper and left upper quadrants of the body. There was a large hematoma retroperitoneally in the midline also, causing the bowels to be pushed forward rather strikingly.We immediately dissected over the portal vein on the right since it was apparently injured, and placed a vascular occlusive clamp of the Sittinsky type in this area to control the bleeding. Noted an injury to the right kidney and to the lobe of the liver. We also noted there was an injury to the stomach, the pancreas, the spleen. At that point it became apparent that he had indeed struck major vessels, and appeared to be the aorta, so the left colon was reflected very rapidly in order to allow us to enter the space behind the intestines, the retroperitoneal space, and at that point I controlled the bleeding from the aorta by finger pressure below and above this area.The bullet had knocked the superior mesenteric artery completely off the aorta exposing a large area.After I had controlled the bleeding Dr. Shires was able to dissect around the area sufficient to allow us to gain control of the aorta, superior artery and the vena cava and the placement of vascular clamps across these vessels in order to stop the hemorrhage.At this point, he was being given blood and of course, the suitable anesthesia measures which were oxygen under pressure. Mr. SPECTER - What was the situation with respect to his respiration at that time?Dr. PERRY - It was being assisted and controlled, of course, by anesthesiology. This was no problem. We had a tube in place and was breathing for him so he had no problem with respiration. This was completely under control of anesthesia. The blood pressure was controlled and we stopped for a moment to determine how we would best go about repairing the structures and which would have priority, all the bleeding had stopped but, as I recall, the clamping of the aorta at the level of the superior mesenteric artery means, of course, that you must prevent blood from entering the kidneys, and this in itself can be hazardous if extended, and therefore we decided this must be repaired immediately in order to restore blood into the kidneys and the lower portion of the body.Then Dr. Jenkins informed me and Dr. Shires that his cardiac action was becoming weak, and I don't remember all the details surrounding the medications and the things ,that were done at this particular time, but he developed a backward cardiac failure, his heart slowed abruptly and the blood pressure fell again and it was apparent the tremendous blood loss he had had set the stage for irreversible shock and lack of pumping action from the heart although he was being given massive transfusions, I don't know the exact number, probably he had 10 or 12 units. I believe it is in the record.At this point when they told me a cardiac arrest had occurred as a result of the hemorrhage and blood loss I took a knife and opened the left chest in the fourth interspace and reached in to massage his heart, and the heart was flabby, and dilated, and apparently contained very little blood.I began to massage the heart, to maintain it as we infused the blood and was able to obtain a palpable pulse in the carotid vessels going to the. neck and into the head. We were unable to get the heart to go, and it began to fibrillate which is an uncoordinated motion of the muscles of the heart itself and the successive electrical shocks were applied with the defibrillator and to stimulate heart action, and we failed in this and the cardiac pacemaker was sewn in place, and it was handed to me by the thoracic surgery resident, and I sewed it into the heart to artificially induce heart action, this also was without benefit.We were never able to restore effective heart action and then Dr. Jenkins informed us neurologically he was not responding, that his reflexes were gone, and he felt that he had expired.

Thanks for the feedback my friend... What I found very interesting was how the central question focused solely on "it was inside knowledge that allowed Ruby to be where he needed to be - even though he'd have no idea when exactly they'd bring Oswald down". It simply never had dawned on most anyone that it had to be the other way around or it could never work. That was how we approached it from the start. And then the question of "clearing the path thru the parking area" 15 and 30 mins beforehand. That assumes Ruby's whereabouts were known well prior to his going to the Western Union. It also means that somehow Ruby is made aware of the Carlin call at 10:19, and why he asks at 10:30 if they had brought him down yet... as if he'd just run in and shoot him if they said yes, which was not possible. The alibi call also had to be arranged ahead of time. Even the HSCA which concludes he entered by the side Annex door is dumbstruck as to how he timed it so perfectly never once thinking that Oswald must have been brought to him when it was known he'd be there - with not a single person seeing him since the procession for Oswald had begun so I'd have to think minds were focused on what was happening. Croy just stands there knowing the man didn't belong, knowing he was not a member of the press and doing nothing, then lying about what he actually did afterward. Croy told Griffin that Ruby “ran by me at a pretty good clip, he was gaining momentum." He rushed/ran thru the line of reporters like a fullback. Croy saw film clips of the shooting and said, “the ones that I saw were the ones that I was trying to get the gun from Ruby.”    Griffin, however, had reviewed the film clips of Ruby standing calmly next to Croy seconds before the shooting. Griffin knew that Croy did not try to stop Ruby and did not try to grab Ruby’s gun. The film clips show that when Ruby lunged forward, Croy backed up and disappeared. Griffin knew Croy was lying . Griffin was focused on the first and only person who said that Ruby gained access to the basement by walking down the Main St. ramp unattended—Sgt. Patrick Dean. Furthermore, no one would be saying anything about CAPT Westbrook wandering around. We tried to find information about Westbrook for Sat and Sun yet there seems to be a large void in that area. We found this image and that this WCE neglected to mention there was a passthru there which allowed the higher ups (Curry's office is in the top left corner) to get to court if they needed without going into the main area of the building.

Yes Gerry, they did. The CIA did not presume, they concluded with evidence they created; and the FBI backed them up for very specific reasons despite knowing he wasn't there. (the PECK reports) do a search in this forum. more than enough has already been presented and this thread is not the place. Add your answer to the thread's question... or start a new thread if you really want to go down that road with me... You might also check K&K where I go into a lot more detail over 5 or 6 chapters.

Yeah, those "notes" As you mentioned before Steve, the different and successive versions of his report are extremely telling... Kinda like the Oswald arrest report... check this out (Fritz is also key to these as well) We've all seen the one to the far right. Had never seen the far left with Fritz's signatures on the 22nd and 24th and the added assault charge for Connally... but how do we have the middle copy dated the 24th without Fritz's signatures or the assault added... and vice versa. The school records for NYC also have multiple and mutually exclusive copies...of the child's singular PERMANENT record. They kinda look the same, but they are not - see below

thanks for the warm smile.

The disenfranchised citizen has finally learned that there is simply no changing the "way it is" as Salandria described all those years ago. But they can change how the issues of the day affect them locally while watching it unfold globally. The key word in the definition of a democracy is that those "eligible" to participate elect and change government/governing/laws by majority. After "eligible" was finally changed to include the Black community and women, the original "eligible" changed that to mean "those with the money and influence". The republic elects a leader. The democracy makes those elected do as they are told by the "eligible", or not get elected again. Just some soapbox philosophy... in my studies, I found that Plato wrote of the same exact grievances about those in power, making the rules and controlling the resources, as we discuss today... at the core, all these institutions of society are run by fallible humans with everyone else hoping they do a few good things and keep the bad stuff to a minimum. Tragedy of the Commons IMO. Without a common human goal shared by all, there is no reward for Altruism... and blahditty-blah-de-blah... "I'm afraid we were misled," Salandria said sadly. "All the critics, myself included, were misled very early. I see that now. We spent too much time and effort micro-analyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy. Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way? They chose not to. Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner. The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny. The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear: 'We are in control and no one -- not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official -- no one can do anything about it.' It was a message to the people that their government was powerless. And the people eventually got the message. Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination. People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and intelligence establishment have increased tremendously. "The tyranny of power is here. Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad. And that will lead not to revolution but to repression. I suggest to you, my friend, that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities. No doubt we are dealing now with an international conspiracy. We must face that fact -- and not waste any more time micro-analyzing the evidence. That's exactly what they want us to do. They have kept us busy for so long. And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you. They'll keep you very, very busy and, eventually, they'll wear you down."

I've been talking about the 5 wallets now for a while. Only recently found the 5th studded wallet photo. There was nothing in the 2 wallets found in Irving except that Marine group photo. If the Tippit wallet did not exist despite Croy stating otherwise in an image given to Barrett for his retirement, this only leaves the Arrest wallet to account for all 16+ items of wallet evidence including 2 pieces of HIDELL ID. Tippit's murder does not exist on an island Greg... all these things are connected. BARRETT was actually interviewed and claimed the ARREST WALLET was the fabrication as he had seen the Tippit wallet himself as well as the ID in it. Be that as it may... where did the DPD get the HIDELL identification and why, on Nov 22nd does CLEMENTS describe the one Hidell item as a "photo of the SSS card" with the name Hidell but the photo of Oswald - yet BOOKOUT's list of photos of the evidence has a different assortment as well as now his #13, the HIDELL ID without his photo?

Interesting about the aorta... with damage there one would expect LOADS of blood dripping down his body... yet on review of some evidence, I am very much wrong it appears. The average time for first responders to arrive is 7-10 minutes. These highly-trained individuals are experts at assessing a scene and administering aid instantly. However, the average time for someone to bleed out after experiencing serious physical trauma from an injury, say a gunshot wound, is only 3-5 minutes. May 19, 2022 yet at the same time: Do abdominal wounds bleed a lot? Bleeding may be minimal and cause few problems. More serious injuries may cause massive bleeding with shock. Blood pressure is usually low... read more and sometimes death. Bleeding from abdominal injury is mostly internal (within the abdominal cavity).

Must be nice not to be concerned with things like facts when forming opinions... seems to be the way it works today but I simply need more than "because I say so" before I form an opinion. If the HIDELL ID did not come from there and instead from the arrest wallet Bentley pulled out in the car... where is that wallet in evidence? edit: and again, why are the contents of the wallets different for CLEMENTS and BOOKOUT 2 days apart with the addition of HIDELL's Cert of Service into the wallet contents? And why is this photo, found in his wallet in Irving, not part of the inventory of the wallet contents? The three photos listed below are of a baby, Marina and Oswald in his uniform. Y'know, just wondering

Thanks Pete... a pleasure talking with all of you. Thanks again for the invite

Great to see you David. Hope you're well.

Good to be back in the mix... and chat with you again black is white... up is down... oh, the JFK "situation"

I know I sound like a broken record... The Evidence really IS the Conspiracy here. Not a single solitary item incriminating the man would ever have seen the light of day in a courtroom... not with Larry and Bill defending the man... or Lane or Perry Mason for that matter.