Norman T. Field

I think the FDR hit story was made up after the Cermak hit, not before. There is strong evidence to suggest the Outfit did assasinate Cermak. Remember that Cermak had previously sent his own hit men (cops) who tried to kill Frank Nitti. Norman, I share your suspicion about Cermak. I was trying to point out the irony to Tim, since he's a fan of Russo's. Russo believes that Oswald killed JFK for Fidel, but that Jack Ruby's childhood friend Dave Yaras organized a mock assassination on FDR, in order to kill Cermak for the mob. Sounds a little inconsistent to me. Realize that Cermak lived for several weeks after being shot, although I think he knew he was terminal. The story is that he was on the phone with FDR numerous times negotiating various 'gifts' in return for statements Cermak would make. Such as his alleged last words, "I just glad it was me instead of the president". I think the FDR hit story is one of these concoctions. An old Hollywood saying, "you can't wrestle with a skunk and smell like a rose", which is why I ignore the bloviations emanating from Key West.

I think the FDR hit story was made up after the Cermak hit, not before. There is strong evidence to suggest the Outfit did assasinate Cermak. Remember that Cermak had previously sent his own hit men (cops) who tried to kill Frank Nitti.

Norman, That's just Tim Gratz, not to be taken tooo seriously. He knows all about the missles in Turkey (and listening posts), but must play the fear factor as if the cold war is ongoing. The Ruskie Generals had to save face too. Per your interest in organized crime Chicago style, have you read Michael J. Cain's bio of bro Richard - the Life & Death of R C, Chicago Cop and Mafia Hitman"? Also re: your interest in Hinkley, have you read the article Hinkley & Co. that I think is posted on this forum under appropriate caterogry? Bill Kelly No, I have yet to read that book on Richard Cain, tho I have read others. A very interesting man. I have read the Hinkley posts. Lone nut my butt.

According to Kruschev's (sp?) memoirs, the USSR backed down on the CMC cuz JFK agreed to remove our missles from Turkey, thus achieving the goal which caused missles to be placed in Cuba to begin with. NOT any Soviet fear of the US armed forces.

I fail to see how any rational person can accept the 'magic bullet' theory. And the baloney about how fast (and accurate at that speed) that the MC carbine was supposedly fired. And then with the understanding that the rifle barrel was slightly bent. LHO did, with a bent rifle, what the best marksman couldn't do with a straight one.

Zangara was put to death about five weeks after the initial shooting. That's nice and tidy, isn't it? Zangara knew he was a dead man walking. The story is that he owed far more to the outfit than he could pay. Supposedly, he family was taken care of in return for his act. BTW. Cermak was supposed to have been 50 yards from Rooseveldt when Cermak was shot. Remember, Cermak was in Florida to hide out from Mr. Nitti's boys. They found him.

I found the books "The Rape of Nanking" and "The Yamato Dynasty" to be quite revealing on the subjects being discussed here. Let us remember that there remains an active campaign of denial in Japan about their war crimes. IIRC, the Mayor of Nagasaki was asassinated after admitting that the Rape of Nanking occured and apoligized for his participation. Ask an elderly Chinese, Korean or Philipino how they remember the profoundly brutal Japanese invaders.

Cermak was engaged in open warfare with Frank Nitti at the time of his death. Chicago police were guarding non-Outfit beer deliveries to try and break the back of the Outfit. Prior to going to Florida, two Chicago policemen, on orders from Cermak, attempted to kill Nitti and failed. Cermak then left for Florida, allegedly to hide out from Nitti. There is a lot of strong evidence to suggest that the bullet that killed Cermak was intended for the Mayor all along.

It was this guy. Anyone else think he looks like a young Dan Rather?

Well I don't think the theory every indicated that Rockefeller ever helped Nixon get elected Pat, just that he wanted the vacated VP slot and clearly the presidency from there. And sure, Wallace was a threat to Nixon's chances of election; he broke up the right wing loony vote. And he was dealt with just as Bobby Kennedy was. I don't understand what that has to do with the premise I posted either. Why would the power elite want to kill RFK and Wallace (tho' that only crippled him) to get Nixon in office while setting him up for removal? Huh? I have often wondered how that came about, as the seeds of Nixon's removal (the Watergate break in) occurred just weeks prior to his re-election. Perhaps it was due to Nixon's embracing of Red China and rejection of Taiwan? This deeply upset a lot of the far right wing folks.

Myra, the evil Nelson theory makes sense on paper, but not when you look at Nelson as a man. The grandsons of billionaire entrepreneurs tend to be less ambitious than their predecessors. It's important to remember that, believe it or not, Rockefeller was looked at as a dangerous liberal by much of the Republican party. No liberal would vote for Nixon anyhow. Therefore, Rockefeller would not have helped Nixon get elected in 68 or 72. No, the real threat to Nixon came from Wallace, which helps explain why Agnew was selected. The other explanation is $$$. Much of the US money spent fostering the military coup in Greece was filtered back into the Nixon campaign, presumably on the condition Nixon pick Agnew, the most prominent right-wing Greek in the US, for VP. I suspect that the choice of Ford was forced onto Nixon. The plan was to remove Nixon from the beginning, but Agnew had to go first. Some suspect that Nixon chose Agnew for just this reason. Agnew was so repugnant that Nixon would be isolated and protected. Nothing at all like the current POTUS and VP.

************************************************************* "Anyone else think Truman one of the worst presidents, ever?" My Dad, rest his soul. He was a Democrat before [as he used to complain] FDR pulled MacArthur from the Asian theatre just as he was positioning to take North Korea under the U.S. flag. After that egregious error [in my Dad's opinion] in strategic military/political maneuvering, he voted Republican, right or wrong. Although, he did agree with some of Kennedy's policies and often referred to him as a "conservative liberal," or a "conservative democrat," which seemed like a contradiction in terms to me, at the time. I was 15 to 18 years of age, during Kennedy's term in office. "he: Started the Cold War (which is the tie in to President Kennedy), hatched the CIA, and oversaw the creation of the World Bank." I was under the impression that it was Winston Churchill who helped create the climate of the "Cold War" by terming the Russian occupied territories as "The Iron Curtain." Remember, Russia had been part of the Allied Forces helping to liberate Europe from German occupation. The spoils of war were divided up by the conquering forces on both sides of the battle lines. "Was Truman just clueless or was he well meaning but deluded?" Probably a little of both. Stepping in behind four terms of FDR's office would seem to be a daunting exercise for anyone to be presented with, let alone be left to implement its policies, both domestic and foreign. The U.S. anticipated so many injuries from a Japan invasion that they are today still issuing Purple Heart medal that were created prior to and intended for the planned invasion. Re: "According to MacArthur's memoirs, the battle of Iwo Jima was totally unnecessary, as the recapture of the Phillipines put the U.S. in striking distance of Japan. " I would be real sketical about anything in MacArthur's memoirs, the man's self serving arrogance and disreagard for the facts when not in his favor is monumental. His primary reason for denigrating Iwo is, it wasn't his idea. A great general who, in the opinion of many, was more than a little mad by the time Truman sacked him. Sure you can base bombers in the Phillipines, but what do you do about the damaged planes that can't make it back to base? This, along with being able to provide a fighter escort to the bombers, was the primary reason for Iwo Jima.

Thanks for that Norman. I guess I was wrong about that. What I really meant to say was that Lansky only started supporting Israeli later in life. If you still have the book handy or have a good memory I have few questions:When did he start raising money for Israel? Was this an individual effort or did he involve his gang? Was he particularly political? If so what were his leanings? Did involve his gang in his political activism? Did Lemnitzer have any dealings with Lansky or his gang? A. The book is at home, so I can't reference it accurately at the moment. B. The book is a 'friendly' bio, so everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. C. I seem to recall the Meyer's activism began while Benny Siegal was still alive. D. Meyer's only political affiliation that I am aware of was to money. Politicians were something you buy. E. The book really mentions very little about Meyer's Jewish associates, focusing mostly on the Italian business partners. F. I don't recall the name Lemnitzer coming up at all. G. I suspect that most of the 'little man's' secrets and business dealings will never be known. Growing up in Czarist Russia left its scars in the man. H. The new book 'SuperMob' raises a lot of interesting questions about Lansky and various Chicago based Jewish business partners. To make a long story short is there any truth to Mark’s contention that Lansky’s gang was an extreme right pro-Israel organization in the late 50’s early 60’s? Not that I am aware of. At that point in history, I would suspect that more support for Israel came from the left than the right, given the embedded anti-semitism of the traditional right. The right only started supporting Israel after it became of military value.

According to his biography 'Little Man', Lansky was very active raising money for Israel.

I doubt US troops will be in Iraq any longer than how long they were stationed in Japan.

John Wayne Gacy was crazy, that's why he did those things. Psychotic, multiple personalities, consumed with guilt about his homosexuality. John didn't even do the work, his buddy Jack (another personality) did. Check out 'Buried Dreams' by Tim Cahill and Russ Ewing. And he didn't hack them up, he buried them whole after he raped and killed them. What does that perverted clown have to do with Watergate?

****************************************************** "Some of the new members now again parading LN theories probably are T.C. I don't miss his distracting babble at all." What! Are you nuts? You must be confusing Tim Carroll's intitials [T.C.] with our resident Lone Nutter's, [T.P.] aka Tom Purvis. Jeez...get yer facts straight. Truly my bad. Of course I mean to type T.G. Apoligies to all.

Re: "Now I want to see Tim posting here again- miss his brilliant "Oglesby-like" posts." Yeah, BRING BACK T.C.! Some of the new members now again parading LN theories probably are T.C. I don't miss his distracting babble at all.

"I am not a crook." "Read my lips: no new taxes." "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." People lie, Norm. And other people, by their own words, display their complete ignorance of the subject matter being discussed.

"I didn't shoot anyone Mister, I'm just a patsy". How does this LN theory explain this remark?

Enjoy the Mac immunity while you can, Mac viruses are on the way. I have read that the Mac OS is actually easier to hack now than Windows.

How about Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak? Frank Nitti's biggest hit. All that stuff about Cermak blocking a bullet for Roosevelt is a story that the two of them concocted in the weeks between Cermak's shooting and his death in return for Federal aid to Chicago. Once Cermak tried to hit Nitti using a couple of policemen, only one response was forthcoming. Why was Cermak in Florida in the first place? He was hiding from the outfit. While the Mafia clearly wanted JFK gone and could have killed him, they never could have managed the coverup that goes on to this day. That requires a different type of company.

I am sorry, but there is very strong evidence of massive vote fraud in Chicaqo in the '60 election, much of it in wards that were in fact controlled by the Outfit. This was a time where you often could not get nominated for office without the ok of 'the boys'. What a lot of people are not aware of; the fraud may have been not in JFKs behalf, but over the local State's Attorney race. Ben Adamowski was running as a Republican, and promised to indict everybody in Daley's party once elected. Yes I have read the paper about the '60 vote totals being similar to the '56 numbers and therefore no fraud took place. This argument overlooks a couple of important factors: the city lost thousands of voters between '56 and '60 owing to 'white flight', and the vast number of normally Democratic Polish voters who went Republican to vote for Adamowski.. In 1960, excepting Warsaw, there were more Poles in Chicago than any other city in the world. In order to match the '56 totals, mucho vote fraud was necessary. William Roemer, who headed the FBI's Chicago organized crime squad, has publisher transcripts of bugs where Giancana was selling the boys on Kennedy over Nixon, whom they had already lined up behind. Mooney apparently had a lot to do with organized crime siding with Kennedy.

Jesus Christ is merely the lastest of a series of attempts by aliens to organize and alter humanity. Their previous attempt was Julius Ceaser who, despite his genius and control of the then know civilized world was killed by those pesky humans. After Ceaser was killed, the aliens realized that a better approach was control of human minds thru religion rather than thru government. Christ's miracles can be easily explained if you have the starship Enterprise orbitting overhead. Consider the Sermon on the Mount: "Mr. Scott, I need more loaves and fishes!" "But Captain, (with scottish accent) the reactor oven is on the merge of overload! Any more and we will be a hyperspace protonic fish sandwich." "Mr. Sulu, route extra power to the transporter, we've got to feed those people!"

Have you considered the Lone Nut Bed and Breakfast in Langley, Va?