John Dolva

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Thank you Tim. ........................................ (as soon as I find again the site I got the following from I'll add it to the post.) " Bob Moses Late one night in October, 1961, I flew from Atlanta to Jackson, Mississippi, with Bob Moses. We didn’t sit together during the silent one hour flight, nor did we make eye contact at the empty airport. Not that it wasn’t legal. You simply wouldn’t take the chance. The next day, with my late friend Paul Potter of the National Student Association (NSA), I rented a car and drove two hours south from Jackson to McComb, a staunchly-segregated town of 12,000, not far from Mississippi’s southern border. There we arranged to meet Bob Moses by pulling up to a gas station parking lot with our lights out, changing cars, lying low in the back seats, and finally being smuggled into a basement room with blankets covering on all the windows. There we discussed the voter registration drive and freedom school opening in town. This was shortly after the Freedom Rides had shaken Mississippi and the Deep South, exposing the violence that awaited any who challenged the segregated status quo. At the time, Attorney General Robert Kennedy wondered aloud if the Freedom Riders “have the best interest of the country at heart” since they were providing “good propaganda for America’s enemies”. The New York Times editorialized that “nonviolence that deliberately provokes violence is a logical contradiction”. A Gallup Poll that summer revealed that 63 percent of Americans opposed the Freedom Rides. Of course, patience was in the eye of the beholder. It was 100 years since the beginning of the Civil War, 100 years since the imposition of Jim Crow laws, and 13 years since Democratic Party liberals like Hubert Humphrey had adopted a civil rights platform. And still, people were being killed for registering to vote, as recently as September 25, when a farmer named Herbert Lee was shot in broad daylight by a white Mississippi elected official. A witness to Lee’s murder, Louis Allen, became a marked man; he was killed two years later. Bob Moses took Herbert Lee’s death personally. Lee had drawn venomous racist attention by driving Bob around the back roads looking for volunteers. Bob himself was badly beaten on the head and face by the son-in-law of the man who shot Herbert Lee. Beatings of other civil rights workers became routine. The institutions of liberalism were powerless to act. Officials of Robert Kennedy’s Justice Department, on Moses’ invitation, clandestinely visited Mississippi sharecroppers to see for themselves. They urged Moses to leave Mississippi because they couldn’t, or wouldn’t protect the voter registration effort. Institutions like the black churches and the NAACP lacked the independent strength for such campaigns. To organize for elementary rights, one had to learn the solitude of expecting to die. In these conditions, people like Bob learned about organizing inside what they called “the iceberg”. Bob was raised in the North, attended Hamilton College and Harvard graduate school in the Fifties, visited Zen centers in Japan, and was teaching at Horace Mann school when the sit-ins and freedom rides erupted in 1960. After a volunteer stint at Martin Luther King’s New York office, he traveled south to join a three-member civil rights office in Atlanta. Then he took an exploratory bus trip through the Black Belt, finally being drawn to rural Mississippi. Among stalwart black sharecroppers, Bob began to evolve a new model of how things work. In the orthodox model, institutions are supposed to represent and defend organized constituencies. But along the way they became frozen in the iceberg themselves. The people they were supposed to represent were frozen too, Frozen by fear of white violence. Frozen by feelings that they didn’t count in the big picture of things, and above all by feelings that they were unqualified to participate in government. Democracy was meaningless where so many people were powerless psychologically. So Bob listened. When people asked him what to do, he asked what they thought. At mass meetings, he usually sat in back. In group discussions, he mostly spoke last. He slept on floors, wore sharecroppers’ overalls, shared the risks, took the blows, went to jail, dug in deeply. Gradually the ice melted, the rock of hope was revealed. People were empowered for the first time. Radicals of that era advocated a strategy they called “political realignment”, which meant the fashioning of a liberal Democratic Party by breaking the connection with the party’s racist Dixiecrat wing. The notion had seeped into Bob’s thinking too, with the difference that he really meant to make it happen. Not through the endlessness of gradualism, but by boiling the iceberg. Not because it was some ideological dream, but because black people needed leverage against the structure of fear. So Bob continued trying to educate the Justice Department to the necessity of breaking the link with segregation. But the results never led to breakthrough. For example, the Kennedys were persuaded to encourage foundation funding for voter registration drives, as an alternative to radical direct action, but they wouldn’t replace segregationist judges or protect civil rights workers on the front lines. Louis Allen was found murdered in Amite County while SNCC was holding a strategy meeting on what to do next. It was plain that the movement couldn’t protect those it encouraged to stand up. Bob knew that getting the Justice Department on the phone, or bringing national figures like Harry Belafonte, Dick Gregory and Bob Dylan to Mississippi was at least partial protection against the reign of terror. His budding idea was to force the nation, at least north of the Mason-Dixon line, to share the terror and finally take a stand on Mississippi. Even when President Kennedy made a personal civil rights appeal on national television in June, a sniper killed NAACP leader Medgar Evers in front of his family in Jackson. Not long after, JFK himself was killed, and the whole country suddenly felt more like Mississippi. But in the same month as the Kennedy assassination, 90,000 blacks in Mississippi shed their fears to cast a “freedom vote” protesting their exclusion from the democratic process. It was an underground vote, like an underground railroad, demonstrating that some freedom was in the air. The project that Bob had built was becoming an alternative structure exposing and chipping at the iceberg. In spring and summer of 1964 came the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party and Mississippi Summer. The new party would challenge the credentials of the state’s official delegation at the National Democratic Convention, while hundreds of northern, mostly-white volunteers would enter Mississippi to work in “freedom schools” and registration projects. While the 1964 Summer Project participants were training in nonviolence before leaving for Mississippi, word came on June 21 that three civil rights workers were “disappeared” in Neshoba County, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Mickey Schwerner. Bob had the burden of breaking the news. No one backed down. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover told the the President that the missing activists might have staged their disappearance to inflame the situation, or perhaps that “these three may have gotten rather fresh” with the locals. In Mississippi that summer, there were 30 bombings, 35 church burnings, 35 people shot and 80 beaten up. But the Freedom Democrats continued growing toward the goal of sending an alternative, legal, racially-open delegation to challenge the official Dixiecrats at the Convention. It was the most significant model of participatory democracy built in the Sixties. The project was the brightest alternative to the war, violence and repression that was building just beyond our knowledge. If the cause of the Freedom Democrats was taken up by the Democratic Party, the rhetoric of political realignment would have turned into reality, and the War on Poverty would have become the priority instead of War in Vietnam. It was not to be. " .............................. May 28, 1963 – The NAACP begins to hold sit-ins at Woolworth lunch counters. That night, a Molotov cocktail is thrown at Medgar Evers's house. June 7, 1963 – At an NAACP meeting in Jackson, Mississippi, Evers says, “I love my children and I love my wife. And I would die, and die gladly, if that would make a better life for them.” June 12, 1963 – President John F. Kennedy gives a stirring civil rights speech on television. As Medgar Evers returns home after hearing it, he is killed by a sniper. After his death, an interesting shift in vocabulary signaled an important change in perception. His murder was not referred to as a “lynching,” but a “political assassination,” a recognition that violence against blacks had become something that had to be taken much more seriously and that it had deep political implications. June 19, 1963 – Shortly after Byron de la Beckwith is arrested, Evers is buried with full military honors in Arlington National Cemetery. For two days previously, his body had been carried across the land by a funeral train. June 22, 1963 – Kennedy meets at the White House first with Roy Wilkins of the NAACP and then with Martin Luther King, Jr. August 28, 1963 – During the civil rights march on Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr. delivers his “I have a dream” speech. ................Kennedy murdered When eight years previously, Emmett Tills shot and mutilated body was brought back to his mother, she insisted on an open coffin with no cosmetics applied : "I want them to see what they have done." This act kick started the modern civil rights movement. WHY DID THEY DO IT? Jackie refused to change out of her blood stained clothes till Saturday morning. When about to disembark from Air Force I she said “We’ll go out the regular way,I want them to see what they have done.” A black woman was filmed weeping in Dealey Plaza after the assassination, her words and image went around the world, distraught, holding a bunch of keys, saying "Why did they shoot him?" Chief Justice Warren had issued a statement that afternoon that “a great and good President suffered martyrdom as a result of the hatred and bitterness that been injected into the life of our nation by bigots.” .................................. Then the conspiracy. ................................... Jackie after Oswald has been brought to her attention now says, (identifying who she meant by 'they') : "He didn't even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights" .................................. Jack and Jackie had had no doubt of the forces they were up against.

Is this the area? ( image analyzer-image mapper-zero point )

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LANGUAGE The way people use words to describe things and events can lead to confiusions where in reality there need be none. So some awareness of this is also necessary. Over time I have noted a number of cases where the way different languages are structured and meanings of words differ, combined with collocuialisms, can create confusions. The most recent being the meaning of the word 'window' noun: a framework of wood or metal that contains a glass windowpane and is built into a wall or roof to admit light or air noun: a transparent opening in a vehicle that allow vision out of the sides or back; usually is capable of being opened noun: a transparent panel (as of an envelope) inserted in an otherwise opaque material noun: (computer science) a rectangular part of a computer screen that contains a display different from the rest of the screen noun: an opening in the wall of a building (usually to admit light and air) (Example: "He stuck his head in the window") noun: an opening that resembles a window in appearance or function (Example: "He could see them through a window in the trees") noun: the time period that is considered best for starting or finishing something (Example: "The expanded window will give us time to catch the thieves") noun: a pane in a window (Example: "The ball shattered the window") In the Dillard photos topic there is a determination of window. 'the third window from the right' can mean the third window pane, the third set of window panes(groups of four panes per sections) or the third opening in the wall (the third pair of sets of window panes) So a witness describing the location of someone may mean exactly the same as someone else but because of their different use of language and the reading of that statement by someone who uses the words in a different way needs to be kept in mind. This crosses over into different cultures. The frence say 'the tree green', the english 'the green tree', the swedish green 'thetree'. First floor in some cultures means the first floor above the ground floor, in others the ground floor is the first floor. NAMES I have a dvd of a number of relevant individuals naming Santo Trafficante, they ALL say Santos, but apparently its written correctly, Santo. Perhaps in Italian, tagging on an 's' is an equivalnet to turning John into Johnnie? Lee Harvey Oswald would to some cultures be written down as Lee(surname), Harvey Oswald. Or if the person is emphasising Oswald as the surname without explaining that that is what they are doing then someone might take that emphasis as meaning that is my main christian name, ie Oswald H. Lee or O.H. Lee. Chief justice Warrens family name is actually Varven from norway. His dad changed or anglisised it when arriving in america as often happened deliberately or unintentinally to many non english speaking migrants. THE SOUTH The south has a strong french heritage. much of the language and the way it's used is probably influenced in many ways. I know that as a migrant from Sweden with English as a second language, I regularly make mistakes or misunderstandings. For example last saturday need not mean the saturday just passed but can mean the saturday before that. Meanings of words is easier for me than names, as I tend to 'phoneticise' names according to how I hear them with a mix of Swedish and English influence. In australia there is a strong thread of slang that is incomprehensible to those nto in the know. I suspect this habit to carry over from convict slang when 'us' and 'them' were more clearly defined. Some amusing examples might be 'dead horse' for tomato sauce. A snitch, or grass is a dog, a lorry with a trailer is a truck and dog, etc etc etc. This slang thing seems to be strong in the south as well. Also some dominant organisations deliberately used words to identify themselves and to hide. Orion to the average person means a constellation. To a white supremacist it means 'our race is our nation'. In the JFK context this is obscured by absurd theories of aliens and cosmic influences. There are many other examples as well, I'll go into them in another thread. Also things change over time, so in the same culture one thing becomes another as time passess. I overemphasised the similarity of hair in a recent pure speculation thread, with input from Pat I paused and now am noticing that that hairstyle was actually very common then but would stand out today. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anyway , a flexibility of mind around these issues needs to be maintained when evaluating evidence. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

My views on where to look for solutions are clear to members. I see this new bill as an avenue to reopen Kennedy's murder. To my mind the connection to civil rights and the murder of Kennedy should encourage Sykes and Talent to at least consider it. ................................................................................ ............... http://dodd.senate.gov/press/Releases/05/0705_b.htm July 5, 2005 WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Jim Talent (R-Mo.) and Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) today announced strong support for their Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act (S. 1369) with 22 bipartisan cosponsors, including Dodd and Talent, already backing the legislation. The bill seeks to create an office within the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute Civil Rights-era murders. Talent and Dodd formally introduced the bill last Friday and continue to gather support for the legislation. The Talent-Dodd plan is co-sponsored by: U.S. Senators Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), Hillary Rodham Clinton (D- N.Y.), Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), Norm Coleman (R-Minn.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Mike DeWine (R-Ohio), Elizabeth Dole (R-N.C.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), John Kerry (D-Mass.), Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), Mary Landrieu (D-La.), Trent Lott (R-Miss.), Mel Martinez (R-Fla), Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Gordon Smith (R-Ore.), Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) and John Sununu (R-N.H.). “I think the reason we’ve seen this kind of support right away is due to the power of the idea,” said Sen. Talent. “When you talk to people about this legislation, they immediately understand the need to create an office to investigate and prosecute these unsolved murders. We need to aggressively investigate current Civil Rights cases, but we should also dedicate separate resources to investigate Civil Rights-era murders like the Emmett Till case which leaders like Alvin Sykes have been pushing for all these years. We need to unearth the truth and do justice because there can not be healing without the truth.” “This legislation has gained strong bipartisan support because it seeks to right the wrongs of the past and bring to justice people who perpetrated heinous crimes predicated on racial hatred.” said Sen. Dodd. “I commend my colleagues in joining Senator Talent and I in pushing for this legislation to be passed. It cannot bring back and make whole those who suffered and died at the hands of racists. But it can at least reaffirm our Nation’s commitment to seek the truth and make equal justice a reality.” “Both federal and state governments have a responsibility to take whatever steps are necessary to thoroughly investigate these murders,” said Alvin Sykes, President of the Emmett Till Justice Campaign, Inc., who helped inspire the idea for the legislation. “The Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act, heroically sponsored by Senators Jim Talent and Chris Dodd, is critical to the success of this important justice-seeking goal.” The Talent-Dodd proposal would create the Unsolved Crimes Section, an office within the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice to focus specifically on unsolved Civil Rights-era murders. The bill would authorize up to $5 million annually for the new Section. The Unsolved Crimes Section will be responsible for investigating and prosecuting pre-1970 cases that resulted in death and still remain unsolved in coordination with state and local law enforcement officials. The Section Chief would be responsible for prosecuting these cases and would be required to report to Congress and the American people on their actions. If a crime other than murder is discovered during the course of an investigation it will be referred to the appropriate law enforcement officials. The Section would report its findings to Congress annually on September 30, the end of the federal fiscal year. Key Components of the Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act: • NEW OFFICE FOCUSED ON UNSOLVED CIVIL RIGHTS MURDERS – The Unsolved Crimes Section will specifically target “cold case” murders from the Civil Rights-era. The bill would authorize up to $5 million annually for the new office. • SEEKING THE TRUTH – Through aggressive investigation, prosecution and reporting, the new Unsolved Crimes Section will shed light on the unsolved deaths from the civil rights era, allowing victims’ families to rest easier knowing the truth. • PROSECUTE CRIMINALS – The mission of the Unsolved Crimes Section is to aggressively investigate and prosecute criminals in coordination with state and local law enforcement officials. • REFERAL OF OTHER UNSOLVED CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS – If during the course of an investigation a crime other than murder is discovered, it will be promptly referred to the Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice. • ACCOUNTABILITY TO CONGRESS – The Unsolved Crimes Section Chief will provide a report on its activities to Congress annually on September 30, the end of the federal fiscal year.

Gary has kindly informed me that this is a blemish: John, The camera original Dorman film was donated to The Sixth Floor Museum many years ago and I personally supervised the tape transfer. The Museum's tape, which appears in several tv specials, is far superior to Groden's version. The artifact is an air bubble, trapped on the original film under one of several transparent tape repairs made to it in 1978. When the HSCA borrowed the film, it was found to be in poor condition and with several torn frames and sprocket holes. That's a very common anomaly whenever tapes are used for repair. Gary Mack

A curiosity? I've gone as far as I can on this one. On a frame in the dorman film appears this image on the structure on the opposite side of elm street where the pond is on the left here and the limousine is now somewhere around there. Some suggestions I can come up with are: a blemish or whatever such things are called. a lens on a camera or a scope projecting the image of the scene behind the lens or scope. This image has an oval outline as if its projected obliquely onto the 'pillar'. The pillar is in dark shade and if it's an image projected onto it then the 'person' that it seems to be would be facing into the sun. For a split second here it doesn't seem impossible to me that that is what it is. Has anyone got access to the original film and could check this please?

Hi Dawn, I think you are touching on an important issue here. There tends to be an 'ethic' within the christian church that says 'don't tread on another church's toes'. While one group may 'privately' judge another, publicly there is presented a unity around a common focus : Christ. So generally there is a kind of almost unspoken 'manner' that one does not question the professed belief of another, but rather seeks to 'point' to issues that the other believer may benefit from by looking at. Personally I think this is a product of an instituionalising of christianity into a religion, rather than being an active quite revolutionary force as I think christ meant it to be. In Bush's case the stark contrast between his professed belief and his condoning of unchristian acts is certainly sufficient for me to question the sincerity of his beliefs. I certainly welcome such a scrutiny of mine, it helps me 'grow'. I wonder up to what point bush would engage in a dialogue with someone questioning his?

::::::::::::::::: @ July 25, 1941 – Emmett Louis Till is born in Chicago. May 17, 1954 – In Brown v. Board of Education, the U.S. Supreme Court rules unanimously that school segregation is unconstitutional. The decision provokes intense hostility among many in the South, creating a poisonous racial atmosphere. August 1955 – Emmett Till, 14, travels from Chicago to Money, Mississippi, to spend the summer with his cousins. August 24, 1955 – While visiting Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market in Money, Emmett Till allegedly insults Carolyn Bryant, a white woman. August 28, 1955 – Till is abducted by two white men and murdered. August 31, 1955 – Till's mutilated body is found in the Tallahatchie River. September 19, 1955 – The trial of Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam begins in Sumner, Mississippi. September 23, 1955 – Bryant and Milam are acquitted. December 1955 – African Americans begin a boycott of the segregated city bus system in Montgomery, Alabama. May 1956 – A rally is held in New York City's Madison Square Garden by a newly founded group called In Friendship. The group is founded largely in response to the Till murder and raises money to support the victims of racial violence. August 1957 – Congress passes the Civil Rights Act of 1957, which includes a provision for federal investigations of civil rights violations, a provision that many observers credit to the impact of the Emmett Till case. On the same day, Martin Luther King, Jr., decides on the name of the new organization he and other ministers had founded – the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). May 28, 1963 – The NAACP begins to hold sit-ins at Woolworth lunch counters. That night, a Molotov cocktail is thrown at Medgar Evers's house. June 7, 1963 – At an NAACP meeting in Jackson, Mississippi, Evers says, “I love my children and I love my wife. And I would die, and die gladly, if that would make a better life for them.” June 12, 1963 – President John F. Kennedy gives a stirring civil rights speech on television. As Medgar Evers returns home after hearing it, he is killed by a rifle shot. June 19, 1963 – Shortly after Byron de la Beckwith is arrested, Evers is buried with full military honors in Arlington National Cemetery. For two days previously, his body had been carried across the land by a funeral train. June 22, 1963 – Kennedy meets at the White House first with Roy Wilkins of the NAACP and then with Martin Luther King, Jr. August 28, 1963 – During the civil rights march on Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr. delivers his “I have a dream” speech. ................Kennedy murdered February 7, 1964 – The Beckwith trial ends in a mistrial. A second trial also failed to convict. July 2, 1964 – The Civil Rights Bill of 1964 is signed by President Lyndon Johnson, John Kennedy's successor. It abolishes discrimination in public accommodations and employment. July 1965 – President Johnson signs the Voting Rights Act, which ensure voting rights to African Americans, thus fulfilling one of Medgar Evers's missions. ............ 1989 – The Byron de la Beckwith case is reopened. 1991 – July 25, On Emmett Till's 50th birthday, Mayor Richard M. Daley proclaims “Emmett Till Day” in Chicago. Part of 71st Street is honorarily named “Emmett Till Road.” 1994 – Beckwith is found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. ............. Emmett Till* KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Alvin Sykes came late to the saga of Emmett Till, but the Kansas City human rights activist has as much as anyone to do with the reopening of the investigation into the 1955 murder. Without Sykes' persistence and network of connections, it's unlikely that the case would have gotten the renewed attention of federal and Mississippi authorities, say those who have worked closely with him during a quarter-century-long quest to resolve unpunished civil rights crimes. "He is tenacious as a bulldog, and he doesn't know the meaning of 'no,'" said Don Burger, a retired racial conflict mediator for the U.S. Justice Department. Burger, of Waukee, Iowa, joined with Sykes in founding the Emmett Till Justice Campaign, which successfully lobbied the Justice Department to put the FBI back on the hunt in 2004. Until a few years ago, however, Sykes knew only the basic details of the black 14-year-old's brutal death, which is credited with helping to catalyze the civil rights movement. Sykes felt the case first tug at him in 1981, after he had persuaded the Justice Department to investigate and successfully prosecute a hate crime for which the perpetrator had been acquitted in a Missouri state court. The victim was Steven Harvey, a 27-year-old black jazz saxophonist, who was beaten to death in 1980 with a baseball bat by a white ex-Marine. Harvey's widow, Rhea, told Sykes it was the second hate crime in her family. The first was Emmett Till, to whom Rhea Harvey was distantly related. Till's name, however, didn't attract Sykes' full attention until December 2002, when an article in a black-oriented Kansas City weekly newspaper detailed the books and films being done about the case. He read about Mamie Till Mobley, Emmett's mother, who had been trying since 1956 to get the case reopened. That was also the year Sykes was born. "Like it was, wow, this woman has spent the equivalent of my lifetime pursuing this one thing," said Sykes. Sykes contacted Mobley and talked her into chairing the Emmett Till Justice Campaign. Mobley died two days after giving the effort her blessing. Sykes has made the cause his passion ever since, with help from Burger and others, such as filmmaker Keith Beauchamp. Beauchamp's documentary, "The Untold Story of Emmett Till," contends that there were other people, some still living, who were involved in Till's murder other than the two white men, Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam, who were acquitted by an all-white Tallahatchie County jury. As with the Steven Harvey murder, Sykes had to persuade the Justice Department that it had jurisdiction to look into the case, even if they would have to rely on state officials to prosecute it. His research turned up two precedents - a federal investigation during the 1970s into the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and the Clinton administration's re-examination in the late 1990s of the 1968 assassination of Martin Luther King. "If it was good enough for Kennedy, and it was good enough for King, it was good enough for Emmett Till," Sykes said. Sykes is one of the more unlikely characters in the latest chapter of the Till murder and its aftermath. Sykes was taken at the age of 8 days from his 14-year-old biological mother and placed with a 48-year-old unmarried domestic worker. At 12, he got his first taste of the civil rights movement, snitching on vandals who were setting fires around his Kansas City neighborhood in the aftermath of the King assassination. Fearing in part for his safety, his adoptive mother shipped Sykes off to Boys Town, a home for troubled and neglected children in Nebraska. At 16, back in Kansas City, Sykes dropped out of school and starting teaching and training himself on the intricacies of the law. Raised Catholic, he became a Buddhist at 18. He developed a passion for helping crime victims, having himself experienced that sense of helplessness at a young age. When he was 11, Sykes said, he was sexually assaulted twice by a man and woman who lived across the street. They were never charged. "I did not know there were people you could go to for help," Sykes said. His grasp of the nuances of civil rights laws is unparalleled, according to Burger, the retired Justice Department mediator. "He can stand on his own with the most gifted lawyers from Yale and Harvard," Burger said. Sykes does his work without a vehicle (a visual impairment in one eye keeps him from driving) or much income. Technically, as president of the Emmett Till Justice Campaign, he is supposed to receive a salary of $27,500 a year, but the organization hasn't had the money to pay it. Sykes believes his biggest contribution to the Till investigation was getting federal and state prosecutors to talk. A pivotal meeting occurred in Oxford in February 2004, where Joyce Chiles, the district attorney for Leflore, Sunflower and Washington counties, agreed to request the Justice Department's help in the investigation. That allowed the FBI not only to get involved but to add the possibility of prosecution to its digging. "Joyce Chiles made this a real investigation with real consequences," Sykes said. Sykes' powers of persuasion extends beyond the Till case. He planted the seed in the mind of Sen. Jim Talent, R-Mo., to create an office within the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute unsolved murders from the civil rights era. That legislation has 22 bipartisan co-sponsors, including both of Mississippi's Republican senators, Thad Cochran and Trent Lott. Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., is one of the lead sponsors in a companion measure that is expected to be introduced in the House next month. Sykes also came up with the legislation's nickname - the "Till bill." Sykes said he has no preconceived notions about whether anyone still living collaborated in the murder of Till. "You will never get from me names of people who were allegedly involved. We want a complete and fair investigation," he said. He said the evidence could just as likely exonerate aged suspects as it could show reason to prosecute. "There may be people out there who have been falsely accused." To those in Mississippi who question the wisdom of resurrecting the racially sensitive case, Sykes cites the example of the June conviction by a Neshoba County jury of Edgar Ray Killen for his involvement in the 1964 slaying of three civil rights workers. That successful state prosecution of the former Klansman has removed, according to Sykes, the stigma that had clung for 41 years to Philadelphia, Miss., site of the infamous crime. "Already around the world, Philadelphia means something different than it did a month ago," Sykes said during a July interview. "You see it as a beacon of hope for truth and justice." He said the only way that Mississippi can move out of the long shadow of Emmett Till's death is by bringing to light the full truth of what happened 50 years ago. "There are more people in Mississippi in the end who will feel better about this coming to a conclusion one way or another rather than to just hang there and fester." * http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=...id=104621&rfi=6 # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Rights_Movement @ https://www.choicesvideo.net/guidebooks/WAV/Heroes1.pdf POLITICAL ASSASSINATION @ : "Jim Crow” laws created a legally inferior status in the South for African Americans, who were denied equal justice and social services. In addition, African Americans suffered sporadic and vicious outbreaks of “lynch law” — people would seize suspected criminals (many of them innocent) and murder them, often after terrible tortures. Sometimes the “crime” for which a black person was murdered hardly qualified for that term. Such was the case of Emmett Till. Because he had allegedly insulted a white woman on a summer day in 1955, two white men assumed they had license to kill him. If they thought they would get away with it, they were correct, because they were never convicted. But if they thought Emmett Till would be forgotten, they couldn't have been more wrong. Medgar Evers, as field secretary for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), was at the forefront of the movement to get blacks to register to vote. This made him a prime target for segregationists. His murder in 1963 was the first racial killing to garner national attention since the killing of Till eight years before. After his death, an interesting shift in vocabulary signaled an important change in perception. His murder was not referred to as a “lynching,” but a “political assassination,” a recognition that violence against blacks had become something that had to be taken much more seriously and that it had deep political implications. Had Emmett Till and Medgar Evers met their deaths 50 years earlier, their names would probably have been forgotten. But times were changing in America, and their murders ignited a spirit of protest that would not die." ::::::::::::::::::::::::: Comment; Could Sykes be the man to help relaunch an investigation? "Sykes' powers of persuasion extends beyond the Till case. He planted the seed in the mind of Sen. Jim Talent, R-Mo., to create an office within the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute unsolved murders from the civil rights era."

There is no shadow to His turning -- "God's work on earth must truly be our own." : John F. Kennedy In 1961 a young president declared that "we would bear any burden, pay any price to secure the blessings of liberty. Some words from Kennedy(from various speeches and writings, sorted in such a way to help me answer the question "what would Kennedy have done?"): "Wisdom requires the long view. Our task is not to fix the blame for the past, but to fix the course for the future. I am reminded of the story of the great French Marshal Lyautey, who once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow-growing and would not reach maturity for a hundred years. The Marshal replied, "In that case, there is no time to lose, plant it this afternoon." When written in Chinese, the word crisis is compounded of two characters-one represents danger, and the other represents opportunity. To those peoples in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. ...will not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin. The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin. And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved. All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days. Nor will it finished in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin. There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long range risks and costs of comfortable inaction. Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring these problems which divide us. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. ....not peace at the expense of freedom, but both peace and freedom. ....our success or failure, in whatever office we may hold, will be measured by the answers to four questions: First, were we truly men of courage--with the courage to stand up to one's enemies--and the courage to stand up, when necessary, to one's associates--the courage to resist public pressure, as well as private greed? Secondly, were we truly men of judgment--with perceptive judgment of the future as well as the past--of our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others--with enough wisdom to know that we did not know, and enough candor to admit it? Third, were we truly men of integrity--men who never ran out on either the principles in which they believed or the people who believed in them--men who believed in us--men whom neither financial gain nor political ambition could ever divert from the fulfillment of our sacred trust? Finally, were we truly men of dedication--with an honor mortgaged to no single individual or group, and compromised by no private obligation or aim, but devoted solely to serving the public good and the national interest. .................... Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. .................... All my life I’ve known better than to depend on the experts. How could I have been so stupid, to let them go ahead?" JFK 1963 - end of an era? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim wrote: John wrote (quoting JFK): To those peoples in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. John, take a look at the thread I started on "Adventures in Missions". That group sends out short-term missionaries that not only attempt to proselytize but also work with the disadvantages and places where civilization has not yet reached. It is only one of many organizations that do such things. And of course on a nonsectarian basis the Peace Corps started by JFK continues as well. Great quotations, of course. Without denying JFK's own wit and intellect, so amply demonstrated at his press conferences, I suspect that Theodore Sorenson deserves some credit for the rhetoric. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Tim? In what way do you mean 'rhetoric'? rhet·o·ric (rĕt'ər-ĭk) n. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively. A treatise or book discussing this art. Skill in using language effectively and persuasively. A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject: fiery political rhetoric. Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous: His offers of compromise were mere rhetoric. Verbal communication; discourse. [Middle English rethorik, from Old French rethorique, from Latin rhētoricē, rhētorica, from Greek rhētorikē (tekhnē), rhetorical (art), feminine of rhētorikos, rhetorical, from rhētōr, rhetor I trust not in the context suggested by "elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous"? I sincerely doubt Kennedy would have uttered important words in his speeches of his own or those of others that he didn't agree with. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim wrote that John wrote: Tim? In what way do you mean 'rhetoric'? Of the definitions you cited, the one that best fits is, I think: Skill in using language effectively and persuasively. John, I absolutely agree with you and in no way was I attempting to denigrate JFK's skills as a rhetorician by suggesting that Sorenson helped draft many of his speeches. Kennedy was certainly an excellent writer in his own right. And certainly Kennedy agreed with alkl the words he uttered regardless of who authored them. This post has been edited by Tim Gratz: Today, 08:03 AM :::::::::: Ok, no worries Tim.

There is no shadow to His turning -- "God's work on earth must truly be our own." : John F. Kennedy In 1961 a young president declared that "we would bear any burden, pay any price to secure the blessings of liberty. Some words from Kennedy(from various speeches and writings, sorted in such a way to help me answer the question "what would Kennedy have done?"): "Wisdom requires the long view. Our task is not to fix the blame for the past, but to fix the course for the future. I am reminded of the story of the great French Marshal Lyautey, who once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow-growing and would not reach maturity for a hundred years. The Marshal replied, "In that case, there is no time to lose, plant it this afternoon." When written in Chinese, the word crisis is compounded of two characters-one represents danger, and the other represents opportunity. To those peoples in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. ...will not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin. The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin. And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved. All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days. Nor will it finished in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin. There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long range risks and costs of comfortable inaction. Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring these problems which divide us. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. ....not peace at the expense of freedom, but both peace and freedom. ....our success or failure, in whatever office we may hold, will be measured by the answers to four questions: First, were we truly men of courage--with the courage to stand up to one's enemies--and the courage to stand up, when necessary, to one's associates--the courage to resist public pressure, as well as private greed? Secondly, were we truly men of judgment--with perceptive judgment of the future as well as the past--of our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others--with enough wisdom to know that we did not know, and enough candor to admit it? Third, were we truly men of integrity--men who never ran out on either the principles in which they believed or the people who believed in them--men who believed in us--men whom neither financial gain nor political ambition could ever divert from the fulfillment of our sacred trust? Finally, were we truly men of dedication--with an honor mortgaged to no single individual or group, and compromised by no private obligation or aim, but devoted solely to serving the public good and the national interest. .................... Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. .................... All my life I’ve known better than to depend on the experts. How could I have been so stupid, to let them go ahead?" JFK 1963 - end of an era? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim wrote: John wrote (quoting JFK): To those peoples in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. John, take a look at the thread I started on "Adventures in Missions". That group sends out short-term missionaries that not only attempt to proselytize but also work with the disadvantages and places where civilization has not yet reached. It is only one of many organizations that do such things. And of course on a nonsectarian basis the Peace Corps started by JFK continues as well. Great quotations, of course. Without denying JFK's own wit and intellect, so amply demonstrated at his press conferences, I suspect that Theodore Sorenson deserves some credit for the rhetoric. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Tim? In what way do you mean 'rhetoric'? rhet·o·ric (rĕt'ər-ĭk) n. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively. A treatise or book discussing this art. Skill in using language effectively and persuasively. A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject: fiery political rhetoric. Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous: His offers of compromise were mere rhetoric. Verbal communication; discourse. [Middle English rethorik, from Old French rethorique, from Latin rhētoricē, rhētorica, from Greek rhētorikē (tekhnē), rhetorical (art), feminine of rhētorikos, rhetorical, from rhētōr, rhetor I trust not in the context suggested by "elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous"? I sincerely doubt Kennedy would have uttered important words in his speeches of his own or those of others that he didn't agree with.

This is a composite of the last few frames from the muchmore film while still filming houston. the tilt is cause she lowers the camera while still filming, she then moves on to the lawn and films the asssassination. The last few frames of the dorman film shows this car with the door shut just before it turns into elm. edit::in the composite kennedys car is seen still on houston, (as well here is relevant part of one of the last frames of dorman. showing car top left, kennedy's car is now approximately at the sign I think?)

There is no shadow to His turning -- "God's work on earth must truly be our own." : John F. Kennedy In 1961 a young president declared that "we would bear any burden, pay any price to secure the blessings of liberty. Some words from Kennedy(from various speeches and writings, sorted in such a way to help me answer the question "what would Kennedy have done?"): "Wisdom requires the long view. Our task is not to fix the blame for the past, but to fix the course for the future. I am reminded of the story of the great French Marshal Lyautey, who once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow-growing and would not reach maturity for a hundred years. The Marshal replied, "In that case, there is no time to lose, plant it this afternoon." When written in Chinese, the word crisis is compounded of two characters-one represents danger, and the other represents opportunity. To those peoples in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. ...will not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin. The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin. And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved. All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days. Nor will it finished in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin. There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long range risks and costs of comfortable inaction. Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring these problems which divide us. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. ....not peace at the expense of freedom, but both peace and freedom. ....our success or failure, in whatever office we may hold, will be measured by the answers to four questions: First, were we truly men of courage--with the courage to stand up to one's enemies--and the courage to stand up, when necessary, to one's associates--the courage to resist public pressure, as well as private greed? Secondly, were we truly men of judgment--with perceptive judgment of the future as well as the past--of our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others--with enough wisdom to know that we did not know, and enough candor to admit it? Third, were we truly men of integrity--men who never ran out on either the principles in which they believed or the people who believed in them--men who believed in us--men whom neither financial gain nor political ambition could ever divert from the fulfillment of our sacred trust? Finally, were we truly men of dedication--with an honor mortgaged to no single individual or group, and compromised by no private obligation or aim, but devoted solely to serving the public good and the national interest. .................... Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. .................... All my life I’ve known better than to depend on the experts. How could I have been so stupid, to let them go ahead?" JFK 1963 - end of an era?

Nick, I am assuming that you are using Internet Explorer? If so there is a free add on that converts it to a multitab browser with lots of extra features. I've had up to about 180 windows open at one time with it. Its easy to use and very customizable. MyIE2 : http://www.myie2.com/html_en/update.htm With the multiple tabs you can always have the front page with topics listed plus you can set it to auto refresh at a timing of your choice. I'm using version MyIE2 0.9.27 and recommend it. There's a lot of online support available. Use myie2 homepage to find. This still wont entirely solve problems with this site. That wont happen until Andy and John address them. But I've found some work arounds that seem to help. If I plan on a longer post I type it up first. Then log in and cut-paste-post quickly, with one qualifier : I find I need to make sure the page has fully loaded before clicking in it as otherwise the likelyhood of problems seem to increase. Plus whatever I'm posting I keep a copy in clipboard till I know the post went through. If it didn't a short wait to overide the anti-flood features and a repost seems to work. On a fairly regular basis the site seems to 'disappear'. Possibly this is the problem you are describing. Finding other sites on the web while this is happening is no problem so it is a feature of this forum. A work around to this, apart from waiting, seems to be coming back into the site from a link from another site. A search for 'educationforum' and follow the links. Also if you plan to post attachments, make sure you follow through by waiting to make sure the 'post page' loads fully before clicking the various buttons. Recheck and repost if necessary. To encourage Adam and John to fix these issues I recommend also a listing of problems in the http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...view=getnewpost 'New Adverts' topic in the educationforum home page. PS. (if you have a scroll wheel mouse) I find that I need to use the wheel while the page is loading as otherwise it seems that clicking on the scrollbar (or just about anywhere on the page) triggers a jump to an ad.

Yes, certainly Tim. Operative word being 'wear'. Detorres' arm indicates he usually wears one. Here he doesn't. Also it may indicate 'handedness'? Do left handed men wear them on opposite arm? I don't know. Never thought much about it.

I found one image showing Sturgis' arm. Unfortunately the resolution is poor. In it on his left wrist he is wearing a watch. The left arm of DeTorres shows an area less tanned where a watch would be worn.

Nic, most grateful for you posting these. So, good images of important evidence do exist. What is the rationale of those witholding such from the research community that is left to speculate using stuff thats relatively 'rubbish' ?

Tom, I've been trying to follow those links,(yesterday and today) but from down here they come across as inactive. Can you post a summary perhaps, or recheck the links to see if they are presented correctly?

Hey there, Tom, good to see you're still around!

........................................... In Tim's Odio Topic I thought I would see if I could find DeTorres in any of the Dealey pics. So I studied DeTorres pic supplied by James. Two main characteristics stood out, his nose and his hairy arms. So looking through folder of pics. I came across one with a very similar nose. To my surprise it was Sturgis. OK fair enuff, lets wander down that road a bit. To my surprise his hair line at his ear is also VERY similar. As is the ears. When resized and checked against a number of different pics of Sturgis, these features are also located in the same place. The jaw line is the same. The hair color. This is interesting (I thought reasonably so). Sturgis has distinctive wavy hair. The DeTorres pics have DeTorres wearing a cap over his hair. The pencil thin moustache of DeTorres gives him a particular look. When putting this on a pic of Sturgis he gets the same look. Most Pics of Sturgis are him clean shaven and in a suit. The pics of DeTorres are in casual dress. People tend to notice features that are distinctive. In this case moustache, suit, beanie. They would tend to distract from other features. Another pic of Sturgis shows he is a 'pointer'. DeTorres is too. Not such a defining chracteristic, but still... Please refer to the images in Tim's "The Odio Incident : a different perspective" Topic (page 5 I think) ........................................... Dis-Guise r.v., -guised, -guis·ing, -guis·es. To modify the manner or appearance of in order to prevent recognition. To furnish with a disguise. To conceal or obscure by dissemblance or false show; misrepresent: disguise one's true intentions. hide sturgis : hiDE sTURgIS : hisg DE TUR IS : guise DeTurris (tur is the middle-english word that torres is derived from, Latin : turris, meaning : watchtower) : DeTorres. Bernard means 'strong as a lion(Leon)'. The strong, tall watcher, defender : Sturgis, legend in his own mind? .......................................... Should be easy to debunk. I don't need it to be Sturgis. The similarities are curious though. Was/is Sturgis hairy? Any pics of his arms. I know virtually nothing about these characters, so perhaps someone who does could point out a good reason for why DeTorres and Sturgis could definitely NOT be the same person.

I realise I'm probably out on a limb here but... (sturgis with detorres' beanie and pencilthin) edit :: plus similarities of nose ear and hairline.

Nast stuff to be sure..quite amazingly mindboggling watching it unfold from down under. Reminds me a bit of Nero. Bush seems to be more concerned about plastering up the crack than feeling anything about the poor folk down south.

as an aside : because sturgis and detorres had very similar noses and ears, i wonder if they were related? (in the far left image i gave detorres a shave and a 'wig') edit:: images moved to pure speculation topic

Gary,Blair. Given the type of dudes Milteer associated with perhaps secrecy is not so surprising. From http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/witness/Levitas.html and http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Fields.asp...d=2&item=Fields "A non-practicing chiropractor from Marietta, Georgia, Edward Fields has been active in white supremacist and anti-Semitic groups since he was a teenager in the late 1940s. Beginning a decade later, when he founded the National States Rights Party (NSRP), and lasting into the mid-1970s, Fields was a significant force in the racist world, known both for collaborating with notorious racist bomber J.B. Stoner and for publishing the NSRP's Thunderbolt newspaper. He was forced out of the group in 1983 and his influence has since waned, but his crude writings continue to circulate widely. He maintains an impressive network of extreme-right connections in both the U.S. and Europe, and publishes The Truth At Last. He joined the National Alliance in 2003. "