John Dolva

Using further information from the Muchmore topic. Kennedy's body movements are the result of multiple factors. A full description of all these movements, starting from a few meters before the headshot till a few meters after, is: Kennedy has already been shot in the back. His bottom remains largely in the same place. He does not slide left or right. He leans towards Jackie. This is aided/caused obviously by their connection as man and woman, (I have speculated previously that if he had been fully conscious he would have sought to distance himself while forcing her down and throwing himself over her). However, he is rapidly loosing blood and while entering this last foggy world consciousness tends to recede to the lower, deeper more primitive regions of the brain. Further, she IS fully conscious, perhaps approaching that time when a human in extreem stress acquires an almost 'superhuman' clarity and strength. Time slows and is often remembered after as a kind of slow motion dream. Her hand is on his arm pulling him towards her, her voice, presence, familiarity, smell even, compels him to obey the move towards her. Meanwhile:: The limousine is on a slight downward slope. It is slowing down, decelerating. Yet he doesn't fall towards the front of the Limousine. Why? It's like riding a bike. Once you know how, you don't forget. If we didn't learn how to react to the continual stop, start, right , left, up, down that goes with riding in a car we'd be flopping around like a mound of jelly. He is naturally braced against a forward motion. However this is not all that's happening. Underneath him is a car seat. The seat has springs in it. [it would be a custom built seat. Designed for comfort, support, stability and the possibility to sit anywhere along its length. The differential bell housing would protrude into the middle of the seat so the springs here would be shorter but in balance so a dignitary can sit here in comfort with the President and not have to wonder about beeing given the worst seat.] As the Limousine is decelerating his muscles are compensating to keep him from tumbling forward while the seat springs are being depressed and deformed forward. This leaning towards Jackie continues right up to about 1/46th of a second before being struck in the head by a bullet fired (distance(d)/2000+) seconds earlier from ....... He is still alive, and then he is dead. Ther are still residual nerve reactions but within a few meters its over. His body becomes subject without interference to all the natural forces that, say a ball in the backseat, or perhaps a bucket of water on the floor, or a full cup in the hand, is under in a car that's in motion. Objects in motion tend to continue in said motion until acted on by an outside force. Muscle control as an outside force is over. The springs are depressed. Jackies hand is on his arm pulling him towards her. The car moves to the right. (actually continues and increases a rightwards movement as can be seen by earlier observations) The car starightens up again AND accelerates. The depressed springs now rebound. His body is pushed upwards while the car twists counter clockwise under him (he is sitting just forward of the rear axel. His previous motion imparted by a slow forward movement continues. The car that surrounds him accelerates. When the back of the seat reaches where Kennedy's body is it 'catches' him and imparts its motion to him. His head, swivelling on his neck continues in its slow forward movement until it hits the top back of the seat and is pulled with the rest of the body forward with the force now imparted to it by the Limousine. A camera panning along with this scene records it. The resultant film is projected onto a stationary screen. The Limousine is moving. The screen should move too to properly see motion as it was. This is the value of the technique as I have here demonstrated. Against a background created by the entire film, individual moving objects can be isolated to see precicely how they moved in time AND space. This image is a combination of views immediatel before the headshot. I've tried to orient Kennedy's head to roughly in the position it would have had at the time of the shot if viewed from the top. It is actually slightly more downward tilted and the exact rotation is not quite right. His face is facing south south west.

George, I have noticed occasions of degradation. I am under periodic attack from probes (see earlier 'Cybergoons' Topic where John outlined some problems the site has experienced). A rather amateurish bunch of hackers from within the Republican Party are being a bit naughty. Check your firewall for probes from reversetheplanet and goons and probes traced to them. They shift around a bit but there are good people out there keeping abreast. One interesting address of members associated with it is stemmons freeway, Dallas.

I believe the motorcycle police "closest to the camera" in your analysis is officer Hargis. From TMWKK, (and possibly other affidavits and WC testimony if exists) Hargis says along the lines that as the headshot occurred he was hit with brain matter and skull pieces with such force that for a short moment he thought he had been hit by a bullet. Also a fairly large piece of the presidents skull and and/or brain tissue had flown onto the trunk of the limousine, which Jackie proceeded to pick up as Agent Hill reaches the limo. In addition to the back and to the left head motion (of only President Kennedy in the limousine), I can not comprehend a different answer except a frontal/side shot to the President's head. This is despite the considerable efforts of the Bethesda autopsists and other's to disguise the true events of 11/22/1963. I know some of the head debris flew to other sections of the Plaza. However, I contend that the witnesses do not recall precisely where they picked up / located the evidence. Logically most of the debris would fly into one direction, from the exit wound. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hei Antti, OK. That would explain Hargis' movements. Possibly also the far rider would have heard a shift in his engine speed as he might have throttled back momentarily and he was stretching up to try to see what happened. ***************** I'm not going to recommend any particular piece of software except to say that it should have layering and multiple undo's.(a lot of RAM is also good, otherwise time and patience) Photoshop is probably the industry standard but there are a number of alternatives. I suggest anyone interested in doing this sort of stuff read some magazine comparisons and choose something that sounds right. There are probably many reviews available on the net. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Kennedy's body movements are the result of multiple factors. A full description of all these movements, starting from a few meters before the headshot till a few meters after, is: Kennedy has already been shot in the back. His bottom remains largely in the same place. He does not slide left or right. He leans towards Jackie. This is aided/caused obviously by their connection as man and woman, (I have speculated previously that if he had been fully conscious he would have sought to distance himself while forcing her down and throwing himself over her). However, he is rapidly loosing blood and while entering this last foggy world consciousness tends to recede to the lower, deeper more primitive regions of the brain. Further, she IS fully conscious, perhaps approaching that time when a human in extreem stress acquires an almost 'superhuman' clarity and strength. Time slows and is often remembered after as a kind of slow motion dream. Her hand is on his arm pulling him towards her, her voice, presence, familiarity, smell even, compels him to obey the move towards her. Meanwhile:: The limousine is on a slight downward slope. It is slowing down, decelerating. Yet he doesn't fall towards the front of the Limousine. Why? It's like riding a bike. Once you know how, you don't forget. If we didn't learn how to react to the continual stop, start, right , left, up, down that goes with riding in a car we'd be flopping around like a mound of jelly. He is naturally braced against a forward motion. However this is not all that's happening. Underneath him is a car seat. The seat has springs in it. [it would be a custom built seat. Designed for comfort, support, stability and the possibility to sit anywhere along its length. The differential bell housing would protrude into the middle of the seat so the springs here would be shorter but in balance so a dignitary can sit here in comfort with the President and not have to wonder about beeing given the worst seat.] As the Limousine is decelerating his muscles are compensating to keep him from tumbling forward while the seat springs are being depressed and deformed forward. This leaning towards Jackie continues right up to about 1/46th of a second before being struck in the head by a bullet fired (distance(d)/2000+) seconds earlier from ....... He is still alive, and then he is dead. Ther are still residual nerve reactions but within a few meters its over. His body becomes subject without interference to all the natural forces that, say a ball in the backseat, or perhaps a bucket of water on the floor, or a full cup in the hand, is under in a car that's in motion. Objects in motion tend to continue in said motion until acted on by an outside force. Muscle control as an outside force is over. The springs are depressed. Jackies hand is on his arm pulling him towards her. The car moves to the right. (actually continues and increases a rightwards movement as can be seen by earlier observations) The car starightens up again AND accelerates. The depressed springs now rebound. His body is pushed upwards while the car twists counter clockwise under him (he is sitting just forward of the rear axel. His previous motion imparted by a slow forward movement continues. The car that surrounds him accelerates. When the back of the seat reaches where Kennedy's body is it 'catches' him and imparts its motion to him. His head, swivelling on his neck continues in its slow forward movement until it hits the top back of the seat and is pulled with the rest of the body forward with the force now imparted to it by the Limousine. A camera panning along with this scene records it. The resultant film is projected onto a stationary screen. The Limousine is moving. The screen should move too to properly see motion as it was. This is the value of the technique as I have here demonstrated. Against a background created by the entire film, individual moving objects can be isolated to see precicely how they moved in time AND space. ********************************************* With regards to the Motorcycle riders, perhaps other riders can confirm this, particularly someone with experience with the Police Harley of that model. It's a large Vtwin, a real 'thumper', probably silenced to a specific degeree, but you can't take the thump out of a Harley. At low speeds like this it would have a pretty regular beat. They had been cruising for a while and the engines would have been pretty hot. More likely to backfire. But to an experienced rider this would be 'background' sound, noted but differentiated from other sounds, like gunfire. Further there is the continual 'feel' that a rider develops for his machine. Transmitted through hands and body from machine to rider. Again background noise, noted but differentiated. Also these guys are riding as a team, and they must remain alert to each other. Cues are both visual and aural. If you are looking off to the side , you still are alert to shifts in engine speeds and clatter of gears et.c. of the other riders. All riders wore open face helmets of sufficient thickness so that the strap/webbing that went from the back across the ears to the chin did not press into the ears. So allowing for some interference from the webbing normal hearing would be possible. I'd imagine it must be as the rider needs to keep the helmet on while on duty and talking to people et.c. So the responses/movements of the riders will be as a result of sound and vision. A closer scrutiny of the head movements of the Motorcycle Riders reveals the following :: Rider one (closest to Muchmore) : His head is fairly stable. Until the headshot : when, just after, his head is lowered quite quickly as if he either ducks in response to gun fire or perhaps to debris hitting him and his cycle. By the time the running SSman nears the Limousine his head has once more been raised up. So, a quick duck, and slower raise. The far rider : He appears only for a short time in the film. Kennedy has already been shot and the riders head is swiveling left and he stretches up to see over the other riders. The middle rider : His head is sweeping back and forth as one would expect, checking on the rider left and rider right to maintain position. Left,...Right,..Le..bang.. right, stretch up, look down into Limousine, quick movement then back to looking into Limousine.

Some further observations. There is something further revealed by this film. The Limousine travels first following the road line. Before the headshot while the driver is looking back, the Limousine starts to drift to the right. After the Limousine starts to first accelerate this drift is corrected. Therefore an additional factor in support of the idea that the 'back and to the left' body movement is caused as outlined in Kennedy's wounds and Connally's wounds is that the now limp body is perhaps not so much 'thrown' back as its inertia causes it to stay where it was until the back seat of the lLimousine 'catches' it and propels it forward. In this image one can see the widening gap between the kerb and the Limousine, preceded and followed by a relatively straight ahead motion. The diagram illustrates this in a slightly exaggerated scale.

Here are the images referred to above plus an indication of Limousine speeds. It appears to me that the Limousine has slowed to a slow crawl around the head shot and almost immediately starts to accelerate. As the car stops decelerating and starts accelerating , Kennedys body is thrown back and to the left. As Clint Hill nears the Limousine it appears to slow and then once again accelerates. To summarise some of the earlier posts. The motorcycle riders show some interesting responses. The rider closest to the camera appears to duck shortly after the shot. It is possible he is wincing from the reported spatter of parts from Kennedy. The middle rider briefly raises his head. Possibly to get a better look. The far rider stretches his head and looks to the left over the other riders. Bill Newman is very agitated through most of the film. The boy next to the man in a white shirt moves around quite a bit. Hiding behind him and ending up standing next to him. Maybe the noise of the motor cycles? The guy on the lower steps also shows a lot of response.

John, I'm just offering this observation as a question, not to digress or anything. I've been reading this topic over time and don't have much to offer. One thing that on a couple of occasions has jumped out at me now is the reference to Fiji. I find it puzzling at first why anyone seeking refuge would contemplate Fiji? As someone living in a country fairly close to it and seeing its vunerability it just seems odd. Perhaps an answer may be found in its recent history. There was an attempted coup there, I think it involved 'native' Fijians asserting a traditional but unconstitutional right of 'rulership' over the largely Indian, Chinese majority. Perhaps within this 'military' clique of traditional rulers some clue as to why he considered Fiji a safe place?

David, I already answered that question.

David, I don't know, I don't use photoshop. I don't think I quite understand your project. However I look forward to seeing your results, it sounds interesting.

A Pleasant surprise: I was curious to see what the surroundings look like to the above composite. The Muchmore film and the bond photos 6 & 7 are taken almost from the exact same spot! Here is the above composite superimposed on a composite of those two photos. to save attachment space see later posts for images

David, I'm surprised. No, it's a very dirty copy. When one puts two images that contain largely the same information on top of each other that which is the same will add and that which is different subtract. As the 'dirt' is different on all frames it quite logically disappears. Now that I'm on the subject, this principle is useful in sifting through the 'smoke' in many fields. I hesitate to add this part, because I had hoped to demonstrate it vividly shortly, but the 'reverse' is also true. That which is the same is sometimes exactly that part not to look at. I call this for want of a better word 'difference analysis'. The above technique will highlight that which stays the same. In turn it not only highlights that which is different but also that which is the inverse of same : change.

John, I must take this opportunity to ask if you could give a critical overview to my attempt at analysing the ballistics, particularly for the moment in Connally's wounds. Please bear in mind I have no problem with being completely wrong, I'm not here to be right but to see right. I have no practical experience with firearms, but read a bit and try to use what I read to understand what has happened here. Quite likely you will find my overall approach patchy and all over the place, so if sorting it out is too time consuming I would also like to read a analysis which I'm sure you have already published somewhere, so a link would be appreciated. I'm impressed with the caliber of many of the attendants of this forum. It's quite humbling really. If sorting my stuff out is too much I could summarise it and message for a response? John

The statement by Harry Holmes that there were early reports of gunfire from the Post Office may have its origins indicated by the following sequence that shows the three motor cycles. The rider on the cycle closest to the camera seems to crouch down or duck from about Moormans position, while the far rider stretches up his head and looks over the other riders to their left. Perhaps there is an internal report here that never reached the public? to save attachment space see later post for images

David, before really getting into all this a few months ago I grabbed as many bits from all over the net as I could. I think I have a copy (multiples) of most of the films). Exactly where from this one I can't say, this one and the Nix one I think I picked up early in the piece. Try a search, it probably isn't hard to find. Exactly which frame I don't know. If someone else can say that would be good. If I work it out I'll post. Thank you for the encouragement. It'd be good if others tried also to do this if it's of interest. It's good to compare things.

Yes , thank you David, I'm not good with names. I've sent a message to John to rename topic. Here's the guy running up behind. to save attachment space see later post for images

This'll possibly be a short lived topic as the moorman* film is so blurred. I thought it might be of interest to see the view from the other side. This is a composite of the film using the same technique as with the earlier zfilm topics. It's harder to see from this angle but the car has reached a slowest point at about the time of the head shot. One thing of interest here is the movements of the family on the other side.The man seems quite agitated for most of the film. The child next to the man in white shirt in the foreground is also quite busy until just before the headshot when he seems to freeze into a position next to the man. All, of the movements are consistent with the zfilm. What is of interest here is also the SS mans sprint to the Limousine. I'll endeavour to separate them out and present. Many frames are very blurred. *names have never been a strong point for me To save attachment space see later postfor images

Tom, OK, so apart from stretching of jacket, rifling, extrusion and apparent polishing of surface a bullet fired through a 1" oak limb looks largely pristine. I can see how even the rifling effect on the rim base causes a sharper ridge here, supporting a 'punch' scenario. I'm confused as to your reference to this bullet striking bone with its nose. In another post you explained the deformation of the base as being from striking the vertebra, it then stayed put and fell out later. When did the nose strike bone? Obviously I'd like an explanation as to Mr and Mrs Connally's statements, statements that they repeated many times outside WC documents. They seem quite clear that Connally was already hit when Kennedy received the head wound. (Here is a unfired WCC 6.5 bullet comparison with the one through the oak limb.)

Tom, In posing the following questions I feel it is important for you to know that I am not so attached to my own understandings that I cannot change and drop faulty ones. I think it is important to cover all areas and I feel that there are certain points that need to be answered by you. Some of these fall into a category where they don't negate what you present, but possibly offer an alternative explanation for observations without impacting on overall conclusions. Others do negate some points hence conclusions. I hope you can see the difference. It would be tragic to have a well argued position fall down in court on a technicality. I'll present these in a somewhat jumbled manner so I hope you can separate the wheat from the chaff. Firstly, The bullet/s A bullet that strikes (as you say) a very dense tree branch and has the copper jacket extruded backwards into a sharper edge so it can later work as a punch. Yet unlike bullets striking less dense substances suffers practically no deformation of the nose. Yet is weak enough to fragment and those fragments has sufficient force to continue on through to cause further damage. Somehow the overall deformation/woundings forces don't add up. A bullet that strikes without spin and in a rearward aspect would decelerate extremely fast with resultant temporary cavitation commensurate with said force. In other words the damage, tearing of tissue, evasculation etc would pulp the body at site of entry. While skin is surprisingly tough and flexible and would close back to such a hole, internal bruising would lead one to expect to see on the surface of the skin sign of bruising. Kennedy was after all still alive, and bruising would form as it does on a living body. Further, any fragments would decelerate even faster! If however said fragment was spinning sufficiently to force its way onwards after leaving the bullet in its wake then it would cause a exit hole larger than its size. Not the same size or smaller. Even if these points are answered there is the question of what caused the damaged vertebra and the bruising of the lung? "The following roentgenograms* of the thigh of a cat indicate it is indeed possible for a missile to damage bone and tissue without actually striking same. A. shows a cat femor and femoral artery and vein injected with barium sulfate. B. is a Microsecond roentgenogram showing displacement of the blood vessels by the large temporary cavity formed after the passage of a 4/32-inch steel sphere with an impact velocity of 3,200 f.p.s. The dark circular temporary cavity is shown in cross section with missile hole in center. and C. a roentgenogram made immediately after the shot. Note that the blood vessels have returned to their original positions and that the femur is fractured. The permanent cavity shows as a dark area to the right of the blood vessels." (Comparing this to the xray of Kennedy's spine and Connally's wrist shows that the damage here need not necessarily come as a result of a missile hitting these areas.) "Similarly, other experiments indicate that the subatmospheric pressure around the temporary cavity causes damage and that this damage results from the expansion of gas pockets rather than from the high pressures connected with the shock wave. Damage by gas expansion may be spoken of as secondary damage, this damage is restricted to gas pockets in the alimentary canal, leading to intestinal perforation, or to gas (air) in the lungs, where severe hemorrhage occurs. Damage from expansion of the temporary cavity itself is primary damage. In both cases, the destructive effects are due to severe tearing of tissue. Although secondary damage from gas is important in rifle shots, it never equals the primary damage which results from the expansion and tearing caused by the formation of the temporary cavity." It is reasonable to argue that this bruising of the lung is a result of this primary and secondary damage, and not necessarily any bullet striking these areas. *(the image is above, and on the US Surgeons General website (link above)) With regards to the bullet that struck Kennedy in the head and went on to strike Connally in the body and thigh. Mr and Mrs Connally's testimony is probably one that I would least dispute. They say that the bullet that struck Kennedy in the back is not the one that struck Connally. They say that the bullet that struck Connally is what caused Connally to double over and collapse towards Mrs Connally. And only after this, only after, and they are most clear on this did they hear Kennedy's head being struck and felt/saw themselves spattered with blood and brains. It seems to me that your bullet here also has acquired the characteristics of the original Magic bullet. Further : where is this bullet?

OK. Yes Tom, that photo makes it clearer, thank you, I think I understand now what you mean.

Tom, your argument for a backward entry for the backshot seems to me to be good. I am not sure that your inference re internal woundings is completely supported. However, I'm trying to understand what you say about the bullets base. Here I've resized etc the images to get a better view of what you are saying however I can't see clearly what the extruded copper base part is. Do you mean the 'halo' that appears in both bullet images? I can see the nick in the deformed bullet, perhaps with a reference to it you could elaborate?

Further with regards to the movements and the reasons for it as described in post 24 is the indication that it is not just his head that moves back and to the left as the deceleration ends and the acceleration starts, his right arm pivots up, his upper body follows the head supporting the observation as outlined. His whole body is thrown back and to the left.

Steve, I agree, I don't believe it either. There's much of what Harry had to say I don't believe.

Since posting the above I've done a bit more reading and should add the following. This explosive force tends to peak after the passage of the missile. The temporary cavity formed is generally 27 times the size of the missile. It tends to form as a conical cavity with the point in the direction of the travel of the missile. The extensive fragmentation of bone and the pulping of tissue caused by this pulsed expansion peaks after the passage of the missile. The fact that most of the material ejected from Kennedy's head was to his left and up indicates to me that the focal point or point of origin of the explosive impulse was centered to the front of his head. This is further complicated by exterior ballistics. A bullet that appears to be level, pointing in one direction may actually have a considerable force on it that is counteracted by the spin. In striking Kennedys head, this may , depending on which time of the cyclical yaw behaviour of the bullet, result in a bullet that within three inches of penetration is at right angles to the path and may also have returned to the straight ahead position within another three inches and exit through a small hole again. So the analysis is complicated further by the fact that entry and exit holes may have little bearing on the wound ballistics. However there is a reported hole in the back of the head, obvious damage to areas to the front and reported extensive damage to the front right hemisphere of the brain. I have also read of conflicting reports of damage to the floor of the brainpan at the back and extrusion of the brain from there through the right side of the head.

from the site referred to above : "The following roentgenograms of the thigh of a cat indicate it is indeed possible for a missile to damage bone and tissue without actually striking same. A. shows a cat femor and femoral artery and vein injected with barium sulfate. B. is a Microsecond roentgenogram showing displacement of the blood vessels by the large temporary cavity formed after the passage of a 4/32-inch steel sphere with an impact velocity of 3,200 f.p.s. The dark circular temporary cavity is shown in cross section with missile hole in center. and C. a roentgenogram made immediately after the shot. Note that the blood vessels have returned to their original positions and that the femur is fractured. The permanent cavity shows as a dark area to the right of the blood vessels. Comparing this to the xray of Kennedy's spine and Connally's wrist shows that the damage here need not necessarily come as a result of a missile hitting these areas. Similarly, other experiments indicate that the subatmospheric pressure around the temporary cavity causes damage and that this damage results from the expansion of gas pockets rather than from the high pressures connected with the shock wave. Damage by gas expansion may be spoken of as secondary damage, this damage is restricted to gas pockets in the alimentary canal, leading to intestinal perforation, or to gas in the lungs, where severe hemorrhage occurs. Damage from expansion of the temporary cavity itself is primary damage. In both cases, the destructive effects are due to severe tearing of tissue. Although secondary damage from gas (-deformation of pockets of, such as in lungs) is important in rifle shots, it never equals the primary damage which results from the expansion and tearing caused by the formation of the temporary cavity.'

"They were the only investigative agency that the Federal government had at that time [FBI hadn't been formed]. " There seems to be a huge blank with regards to the possible role of the, as it was then known, 'the USPO' or United States Post Office, a branch of the federal government. The oldest by far investigative branch in the Federal Government is the Postal Inspection Service. 1772--Under the colonial postal system, Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin created the position of "surveyor" because he could no longer single-handedly regulate and audit postal functions. 1801--Title of surveyor changed to Special Agent. 1830--Office of Instructions and Mail Depredations was established as the investigative branch of the Post Office Department. 1853--The number of Special Agents had grown to 18, assigned to specific territories. Their duties included reporting on the condition of stagecoaches, steamboats, railroads, and horses used to transport mail, visiting mail distributing offices and examining postal accounts. During the civil war the confederate states ran their own postal service, it was in fact the most successful department within the rebel government. The privacy of mail was enshrined in the constitution, however that did not stop these inspectors from participating in ILLEGAL mail opening operations with the CIA under the direction of Helms and Dulles. This operation was carried out across the USA for something like 20 years. "He was somehow arrested on a Postal Inspector's tip." Well, well the postal inspectors did know a thing or three. Perhaps because of the legendary status and intimate connection between the post office and the expansion of the states, perhaps because of their intimidating persona as alluded to by Mark in another thread, there is a great reluctance to question this august body?? "Move along folks, nothing of interest here, look over there, the GK."

I have always taken it on faith that during his arrest at the Texas Theater, Lee Harvey Oswald took out his gun and attempted to shoot arresting Officer M.N. McDonald. This is based on accounts of an audible "snap" that was heard. Later, we read accounts that the only reason Oswald's attempted murder of McDonald didn't succeed because of a bent primer or a "misfire" I would like to contend that perhaps the "snap" that was heard was either the sound of something else, or was accidently caused by the officers seeing the gun and immediately reacting to take it away from Oswald and that Oswald did not attempt to shoot Officer McDonald. I say this for the following three reasons: 1) Here are the after action reports of the arresting officers filed with Police Chief Curry on Decembers 2 - 5, 1963. They can be found in the Dallas Police Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm E.L. Cunningham: "When I reached the seating area on the main floor, several officers were in the process of disarming and handcuffing the suspect. ...I did not see anything that indicated that any more force was used than was absolutely necessary to effect the arrest". Paul Bentley: "Just as I entered the lower floor, I saw Patrolman McDonald fighting with this suspect. I saw this suspect pull a pistol from his shirt, so I went to Patrolman McDonald's aid immediately" Bob Carroll: "When I arrived at the lower floor, Lee Harvey Oswald was resisting vigorously"...At this time I observed a pistol with the muzzle pointed in my direction. I grabbed the pistol and stuck it in my belt..." Ray Hawkins: "The subject stood up and as Officer McDonald started to search him, he struck Officer McDonald in the face. The subject and Officer McDonald began to fight and both fell down in the seats. Officer Walker and I ran toward the subject and grabbed him by his left arm. The subject had reached in his belt for a gun and Officer McDonald was holding his right hand with the gun in it". T.A. Hutson: "As I entered the row of seats behind the suspect he jumped up and hit Officer McDonald in the face with his fist, Officer McDonald was in the seat next to the one in which the suspect was originally sitting, and the suspect was up out of his seat struggling with Officer McDonald. I reached over the back of the seats and placed my right arm around the suspect's neck and pulled him up on back of the seat. Officer C.T. WAlker came up and was struggling with the suspect's left hand, and as Officer McDonald struggled with with the suspect's right hand, he moved it to his waist and drew a pistol and as Officer McDonald tried to disarm the suspect, I heard the pistol snap". K.E. Lyon: "Enroute to the City Hall, Oswald refused to answer all questions. and he kept repeating, "Why am I being arrested? I know I was carrying a gun, but why else am I being arrested"? M.N. McDonald: "When I got within a foot of him, I told the suspect to get to his feet. He stood up immediately, bringing his hands up about shoulder high and saying, "Well it's over now". I was reaching for his waist and he struck me on the nose with his left hand. With his right hand, he reached for his waist and both our hands were on a pistol that was stuck in his belt under his shirt. We both fell into the seats struggling for the pistol. ... I managed to get my right hand on the pistol over the suspect's hand. I could feel his hand on the trigger. I then got a secure grip on the butt of the pistol. I jerked the pistol and as it was clearing the suspect's clothing and grip I heard the snap of the hammer and the pistol crossed over my left cheek, causing a four inch scratch". As you can see from reading these reports, at no time in the first 10 to 12 days following the assassination, did any of the arresting officers on the scene claim that Oswald tried to shoot M.N. McDonald. If the pistol did go off and cause a "snap" of the hammer falling into place, it was because McDonald jerked it out of Oswald's pants. 2) When questioned by Captain Fritz on the afternoon of November 22nd, Fritz did not accuse Oswald of trying to shoot Officer McDonald. Fritz (4H214) Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it. Mr. BALL. Did you ask him if he killed Tippit? Mr. FRITZ. Sir? Mr. BALL. Did you ask him if he shot Tippit? Mr. FRITZ. Oh, yes. Mr. BALL. What did he say. Mr. FRITZ. He denied it---that he did not. The only thing he said he had done wrong, "The only law I violated was in the show; I hit the officer in the show; he hit me in the eye and I guess I deserved it." He said, "That is the only law I violated." He said, "That is the only thing I have done wrong." 3) If Oswald had attempted to shoot Officer McDonald, why were no charges of attempted murder filed as they were in the case of Governor Connally? I believe that the account of Oswald trying to shoot McDonald was invented after the fact. Steve Thomas <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is what Harry D. Holmes (Dealey Plaza Post Office Postal Inspector, FBI informant "Dallas T7") had to say about Oswalds last interview which he prolonged while Ruby made his way to the basement : “Well, who is that man?” as Oswald pointed to me. Fritz told him that I was a postal inspector and that I might have a question to ask in regard to post office matters. Oswald didn’t have a problem with that and responded, “Okay.” The FBI had interrogated his wife two or three times, and it really needled him and just set him off to the point that he had no use for the FBI. It was the FBI that wouldn’t tell the Secret Service or anybody else that he should have been watched, and they really were criticized over it. But anyway, Oswald wouldn’t talk until he was assured that there wasn’t an FBI man in the room. He just didn’t want anything to do with the FBI. This was the only time that I ever saw Oswald. To me he looked just like a normal person. You read stories about how you can look in their eyes and see this or that, but I didn’t see anything different about him. Personally, I thought that he was very intelligent. He was very positive and opinionated about what he said and never minced words. His answers were either yes or no, and he had an excellent memory. He answered all the questions put to him either truthfully or otherwise, but I knew that he was lying on certain questions because of the evidence that we had. When he came into the room, he was just matter of fact; he didn’t know why he was there. He said, “I presume I’m here because I resisted arrest and tried to shoot a policeman there in that theater. All I know is that I was in a picture show out there on Jefferson and the police came in after me. I had my pistol on me and took it out to defend myself when it didn’t fire. I wasn’t successful because the hammer caught on the web of the guy’s hand. If it had fired, he’d be another dead policeman. I didn’t kill anybody!” He wouldn’t even admit to killing Tippit, and he certainly denied any connection with the President. He didn’t have any reason for it."