Thomas Graves

I think you can assume I agree since I am of the opinion Ferrie was murdered. If someone says to you it doesn't matter if the first or second string quarterback plays And you reply "Only if you want to win", I think most people would get what you mean. Greg, I guess it would be more "interesting" if the Tommy mentioned in Ferrie's suicide note was Thomas Beckham, but unfortunately it wasn't Beckham (or, for that matter, Thomas Nation Compton III). It was just 19 year old Tommy Clark. Bummer. --Tommy

He must have had foreknowledge Tommy ,Otherwise why the tears?, Once again, your humor escapes me, Ian. Probably just too abtruse for me. I ask for help and I get an enigmatic reply. LOL --Tommy Jfk ,,, sob ah just seen the periods , it was a bit Obtuse! No, Ian, you were. LOL!

He must have had foreknowledge Tommy ,Otherwise why the tears?, Once again, your humor escapes me, Ian. Probably just too abtruse for me. I ask for help and I get an enigmatic reply. LOL --Tommy

Tommy, Maybe they were called Lulu and Tinkerbelle. Who knows? The point is, there's nothing to say they were called anything (that I'm aware of) other than Thomas - whereas Clark appears to have been known by one and all as "Tommy". Greg (Anglo-Scot-French-Canadian-Cree and still not big enough to let anyone call me Gregory) OK, little Greg. I see your point. --Big Tommy Cree, huh? We used to eat you guys for breakfast! Merry Christmas, --Tommy P.S. For our purposes I wonder if it really matters which "Thomas" (Christian name) Ferrie was referring to?

deleted; please see my new thread on this subject

Tommy, Maybe they were called Lulu and Tinkerbelle. Who knows? The point is, there's nothing to say they were called anything (that I'm aware of) other than Thomas - whereas Clark appears to have been known by one and all as "Tommy". Greg (Anglo-Scot-French-Canadian-Cree and still not big enough to let anyone call me Gregory) OK, little Greg. I see your point. --Big Tommy

In light of the fact that Ferrie's other "suicide note" is the subject of a recent post by Lee Farley on another thread, I thought I would "bump" this one so everyone can be aware of it, too. (I'm proud to say that I helped Al become a member of this forum. We've had several interesting phone conversations.) Mr Simkin was gracious enough to waive the forum requirement for a current photo in Al's case. --Tommy P.S. In post #4 Stephen Roy says that "Tommy" was probably Thomas Nation Compton III. Was Thomas more commonly called "Tommy"? If not... there was another Thomas associated with Ferrie who was... Greg, Do you mean Thomas Beckham? As to whether or not Thomas Nation Compton III was more commonly called "Tommy", I suppose you could always call Al Beaubouef or contact Tom Scully. Maybe Tom can dig up some pertinent old wedding invitations AND obituaries... --Tommy Graves Tommy, It's just that I have not seen Compton referred to as "Tommy". That also applies to Thomas Beckham. I'm talking about a guy called Tommy Clark. Stephen made his call on Compton in '06... but in '08, the person SR takes credit for turning against Garrison (David Reitzes) had the name Tommy Clark thrown at him while trawling for information in a New Orleans newsgroup. This person claimed Clark did a runner after the assassination. Ferrie had once arranged bail for Clark, and during the Garrison case. they tried to subpoena him... Greg, Interesting stuff, indeed. Thanks, friend! FWIW, most people call me "Tom" or "Thomas", but my friends call me "Tommy". (They know that's what I prefer to be called now that I'm a 6'4", 210 pound Scots-Irish-Ukrainian-Swedish-Chickasaw senior citizen who is finally "big enough" to handle being called "Tommy" again.) Maybe Compton and/or Beckham were called "Tommy" only by their friends... --Tommy

I'm glad you referred to it as a supposed suicide note. Contrary to a few published reports, it was found in an envelope taped under a table. The envelope was marked "Open in the event of my death", and contained a list of people to contact in the event of his death and a handwritten will, dated July 1966. Given Ferrie's frequent claims that year to have been feeling very ill, including a hospitalization, it is unclear if this is a farewell note or a suicide note. I am certain that it was written to Al Beaubouef. My best guess on Tommy is Thomas Nation Compton III, a former CAP boy, amateur rocket enthusiast, the boy with whom he stayed on the night of 11/24/63, and an employee at Ferrie's gas station in 1964. He was a friend of both men, of long standing. Compton began pulling away from Ferrie's circle in 1965. "Barogona" is probably James Baragona, whom Ferrie taught to fly in a Beechcraft, and whose license application Ferrie sponsored. (emphasis added by T. Graves) In light of the fact that Ferrie's other "suicide note" is the subject of a recent post by Lee Farley on another thread, I thought I would "bump" this one so everyone can be aware of it, too. (I'm proud to say that I helped Al become a member of this forum. We've had several interesting phone conversations.) Mr Simkin was gracious enough to waive the forum requirement for a current photo in Al's case. --Tommy P.S. In post #4 Stephen Roy says that "Tommy" was probably Thomas Nation Compton III. Was Thomas more commonly called "Tommy"? If not... there was another Thomas associated with Ferrie who was... Greg, Do you mean Thomas Beckham? As to whether or not Thomas Nation Compton III was more commonly called "Tommy", I suppose you could always call Al Beaubouef or contact Tom Scully. Maybe Tom can dig up some pertinent old wedding invitations AND obituaries... --Tommy Graves

There are two specific thoughts that spring to mind concerning your question: i) The raging debate that has taken place over the last 48 years has come down to whether Oswald was a decent shot or a poor shot. There has never been anyone make the claim that during his military service he was a crack/expert shot. He was never the best of the best. Right? ii) So whether he was decent or poor is of little consequence due to the fact that the Frazier tests and the CBS tests that were done involved nobody that was a poor or decent shot. Correct? The first set of Frazier tests in 1963 being done by Robert Frazier, Charles Killion and Courtland Cummingham. All experts in their field. The second set in 1964 by Miller, Stanley and Hendrix. All expert marksmen. The CBS tests in 1967 also took place with expert shots did they not? The 11 experts marksmen in this test consisted of 3 Maryland state policemen, 3 White Lab employees from the H.P. White Ballistics Laboratory where the tests took place, a weapons engineer named Howard Donahue, a ballistics technician, 2 sportsmen and an ex-paratrooper just back from Vietnam. You think this is comparable to Oswald's scorecards? Why not tests with average marksmen? Let's not get into the results and the conditions that the tests were conducted under because that's a different story. If they'd have gotten Roger Bannister to do a Beckley to 10th & Patton test I'm sure we'd all raise an eyebrow or three... Expert or non expert, it doesn't matter a toss. The undisputable fact is, that whoever took the shots, expert or non expert, from the 6th floor windwow or any other speculated firing location, got the job done. And where does that leave us? And Mike's question? You are saying that someone shot JFK from some location in Dealey Plaza and they may or may not have been an expert marksman. Wow. Case closed. "... 'Record day' was a high point in recruit training and occurred during the third range week. (From 1948 thru 2007--T.Graves)...(S)hots were fired in the standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone positions at the 200, 300 and 500-yard lines, (using 'iron sights' --T.Graves), for a maximum score of 250 points. This system remained in place until 2007." (attributed to Alvarez) FWIW, the distance from the sixth floor "sniper's lair" to the fatal headshot at Z-313 was determined to be 265.3 feet. My handy-dandy calculator says that's only 88.43% of 100 yards. But then again, I never was any good at math(s). --Tommy

I'm glad you referred to it as a supposed suicide note. Contrary to a few published reports, it was found in an envelope taped under a table. The envelope was marked "Open in the event of my death", and contained a list of people to contact in the event of his death and a handwritten will, dated July 1966. Given Ferrie's frequent claims that year to have been feeling very ill, including a hospitalization, it is unclear if this is a farewell note or a suicide note. I am certain that it was written to Al Beaubouef. My best guess on Tommy is Thomas Nation Compton III, a former CAP boy, amateur rocket enthusiast, the boy with whom he stayed on the night of 11/24/63, and an employee at Ferrie's gas station in 1964. He was a friend of both men, of long standing. Compton began pulling away from Ferrie's circle in 1965. "Barogona" is probably James Baragona, whom Ferrie taught to fly in a Beechcraft, and whose license application Ferrie sponsored. (emphasis added by T. Graves) In light of the fact that Ferrie's other "suicide note" is the subject of a recent post by Lee Farley on another thread, I thought I would "bump" this one so everyone can be aware of it, too. (I'm proud to say that I helped Al become a member of this forum. We've had several interesting phone conversations.) Mr Simkin was gracious enough to waive the forum requirement for a current photo in Al's case. --Tommy P.S. In post #4 Stephen Roy says that "Tommy" was probably Thomas Nation Compton III.

Here is the video Mr. Phelps turned us onto in post #1, this thread: http://rechtiskrom.w...-frank-sturgis/ --Tommy

Thanks, Mark. --Tommy P.S. For those of you who are still laboring under the delusion that we're talking about the guy on the far left--- wrong! We're talking about the guy behind the dude who is holding a pistol in his hand up near his head (Frank Sturgis AKA Frank Fiorini). Oh! You're talking about TODHNOEM! Greg, That's the first time I've been subjected to a tod-hnoem attack on this forum! --Tommy P.S. Uhhh.... What does TODHNOEM mean? You mean you've never heard of The-Other-Dude-Who's-Not-Oswald-Either Man???!! And you call yourself a <DELETED>? P.P.S. Dude on the left looks a bit like the Corsican mercenary/assassin Jean Soutre. Good one, Greg!

Thanks, Mark. --Tommy P.S. For those of you who are still laboring under the delusion that we're talking about the guy on the far left--- wrong! We're talking about the guy behind the dude who is holding a pistol in his hand up near his head (Frank Sturgis AKA Frank Fiorini). Oh! You're talking about TODHNOEM! Greg, That's the first time I've been subjected to a tod-hnoem attack on this forum! --Tommy P.S. Uhhh.... What does TODHNOEM mean? P.P.S. Dude on the left looks a bit like the Corsican mercenary/assassin Jean Soutre.

Thanks, Mark. --Tommy P.S. For those of you who are still laboring under the delusion that we're talking about the guy on the far left--- wrong! We're talking about the guy who is partially visible behind Frank Sturgis (the dude holding the pistol near his head).

Greg is right, that is definitely Sturgis but not LHO. It is a reporter whose name escapes me for now. The film was taken in 1961 at a parachuting practice ground run by a guy named Popperwell or smothing similar. My memory is not what it used to be. There were also some press photographs taken that day one of which shows Hemming, Sturgis and Larry deJoseph. James Richards has posted it here before. JK (emphasis added by T. Graves) For cryin'out loud. Everybody's talking about the wrong guy. Please read my post #12, above. Can't anybody here take the time to actually watch the videos and read the accompanying text? And you call yourselves <deleted>. --Tommy

This was how Michael Rennie looked: Kathy C You realize of course they're talking about the guy standing behind Sturgis. You can't see him in this photo. In the top video the guy who looks like LHO looks briefly at the camera buy you can only see about one half of his face. The he bends down to pick something up. Ya gotta watch the videos. And guess what... He does look like LHO. FWIW, I think I've spotted Dennis Harber standing next to Sturgis and Bernardo de Torres standing on the right near Marita Lorentz. And the big guy sitting down on the right looks a bit like Gerry Hemming, except this guy might be black (Nestor Izquierdo?). Hard to tell because his face is shaded by his hat. Interesting videos. --Tommy bump

This was how Michael Rennie looked: Kathy C You realize of course they're talking about the guy standing behind Sturgis. You can't see him in this photo. Ya gotta go to 1:04:54 in the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpfVBiQi-Q --Tommy

Greg, As Robert De Niro said, "You talkin' to me?" --Tommy

Greg, --Tommy

No, you are quite mistaken. Dulles' own basic training was primarily as a lawyer. Even as DCI Dulles did not give orders, he took them. Dulles' experience was primarily as a Nazi operative and financier. And you are worse than mistaken. You ought to be lobotomized. I really do not understand, Mr. Schweitzer. Your post opening this thread seemed intellegent and well-thought out. While I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything that you wrote, it was good reading. I don't always agree 100% with Mr. Burnham, or Mr. Kelly or anyone else. And I think that is probably true for everyone on this forum: everyone probably disagrees with everyone about one thing or another. I happen to agree with you about Allen Dulles in that I have a hard time believing that he was out of the loop. I just do not think that one could be DCI for as long as he was and not maintain serious contacts. On the other hand, I do also tend to agree with Mr. Burnham that the military played a major part, if not the major part, in the overall operation. You resort to name-calling. I find it all so demeaning and childish. To suggest that Mr. Burnham should be lobotomized: what purpose does it serve? It just makes you look foolish, in my opinion. Do you know Mr. Kelly and all the work he does to try to get to the facts and the truth of this whole nasty business? To suggest he is a "mockingbird" also makes you look foolish in my opinion. For sure, you are not the only person here who resorts to name-calling when their opinion is challenged. We have all seen the large number of threads that have degenerated. But you are new here; maybe I am foolishly hopeful that some of the new members could work to raise the standard of discourse. We have a lot of intelligent and dedicated people here, and this forum contains an enormous wealth of information. Unfortunately too many times the valuable information is lost in the name-calling noise. Can't we all do better than that? Ditto. Some new kid on the block comes here and begins calling serious researchers names. No one is down playing the Nazi connection to the CIA. And Mae did tell us all we needed to know decades ago. As did Carl Oglesby and others. For a lawyer - if indeed you are/were -your logic is most strange. Dawn I think he should voluntarily remove himself from the JFK Assassination Debate forum and go to some other assassination forum where virulent name-calling is more acceptable. --Tommy

Tragically Paul, this could be the longest thread here if everyone gives just one example... I'll get the ball rolling... From Marina's HSCA testimony.... Mrs Porter: We had a short wave radio, I believe that is what you call, when you can listen to the foreign stations. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=38623 From FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 101 An examination of the radio and power supply was made by SA Winton P Walter, Electronics... the dial of the radio is marked "DB" (long wave) and "CB" (medium wave)... the radio will not receive short-wave radio broadcasts... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62388&relPageId=15 Sometimes I wonder if Marina wasn't a KGB agent who was "turned" by the CIA as soon as the Oswalds moved to the U.S. --Tommy bump