J. William King

Agreed, John. I can't think of a more high profile place to drag a safe down the front steps. A little like breaking into the White House just to steal the silverware and a couple of TVs. Sounds like it might be a conspiracy, but that would be silly too. JWK

The Rambler shown in the Elm St photo is a '63 Rambler, which is another body style from the '59 which is talked about. It's not even clear that it's a wagon. Ramblers were very common back then. Now, there is another Murray photo of two women crying that has an early 60's Rambler American wagon in the background. This photo was taken at the corner of Elm and Houston just minutes after the assassination. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&id=6055 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&id=6056

Back in 1983, on the 20th anniversary of the assassination, one of the Dallas stations (WFAA Ch. 8 I think) ran real-time video of that station's coverage of the events. It was just called "The Kennedy Tapes". What made this unusual was that it ran for 3 days straight, from midnight to 6am. The first day, and most of the second day were real time with no breaks or edits of any kind. The remainder of the second day, and the third day, they "time shifted" a bit to fit everything in. It was awesome, but it was never repeated. I've already heard that some of WFAA's footage will be in this new program.

I've often wondered how things would have been if Jackie had been injured or killed. If Clint Hill had been just a half a step slower and not reached the limo in time, Jackie surely would have fallen off the trunk when the limo was racing to the hospital. JWK

I remember reading or seeing an interview with Jim Leavelle where he said he leaned down and told Oswald something like "You're hurt really bad son. Is there anything you want to say?". Oswald either said "no", or didn't answer him. I don't remember which right now.

I have always wondered if we would have reached the moon by 1969 (if at all) if JFK had not been assassinated in Dallas. If things had gone as Peter described above, there would not have been that desire to make JFK's wish become reality. Interest may have waned with budget battles, Vietnam, civil rights, scandles, etc. With Kennedy's death, and renaming of the space center in his name, I think there was a desire to make the space program his legacy.

In the search for total accuracy in your Dr. Pepper research, you should really get a hold of some "Dublin Dr. Pepper". It's the only Dr. Pepper bottling plant in the country that still uses pure cane sugar instead of the high fructose corn syrup stuff most all of the other soda pop makers, including Dr. Pepper, use currently. Not only will it duplicate the stuff that LHO drank on Nov. 22, 1963, but it tastes much better too. All in the name of accurate research of course. JWK

I've always wondered about JBC being the actual target. LHO tried very hard to get his discharge changed, and the fact that JBC (or his office) turned him down may have given him a motive. If LHO had failed to lead the shot correctly, it would have put JFK right into the line of fire. Also, it might explain why a shot wasn't taken on the way down Houston St. The car's windshield, grab bar and maybe the front seat passengers would have been in the way if the target was, indeed, JBC. Of course, this assumes LHO was the actual shooter and that no others were involved. JWK

The one place I've found Mr. von Pein 24/7 is the Internet Movie Database (IMDB) on the Oliver Stone movie "JFK". He, and his cronies are on there all day, all night blasting anyone who even asks the most innocent question. Some on there say he and about 6 others are all the same person. The all agree with each other that anyone who questions the official version is obviously nuts. He posts there under "DVP-1" and probably other names as well, such as "NickSlickReturns". I know the JFK movie discussion board on the IMDB isn't for serious researchers, but I worry about younger people who's first exposure to the assassination discussion is that board, and they end up falling right into his (and others) lone nutter grasp. JWK

You aren't thinking of Denis Morissette, are you? If so, he's from Toronto.

I seem to remember that someone on here had a link to a site that had older street maps online. They were of the "pan and zoom" type if I remember correctly. I used to have it bookmarked but I've since lost it. I tried an online search, and a search of this site but I can't put it up. Anyone remember that site?

With all of the talk about where LHO went and how he got there, and how much time it took, I thought I would play with my Mapsource program a bit. The attached screenshot is the result of many minutes of labor. I don't know what route Oswald took to 10th and Patton (if he indeed went there). I let my program do the work. The settings are for "pedestrian" with time and distance for each route on the left. I also plotted out a direct route from his rooming house to the Texas Theater (highlighted in yellow). It's interesting to note that he started out heading SSE, only to go towards the theater after the Tippit shooting. If you will notice, "Dallas Zoo Blvd" is in direction he was heading. I couldn't help but think of that childhood picture of him at the zoo and wondered if he may have been heading there before he was sidetracked?

No. If you're talking about that white/light colored car nearest the camera, it's a 1962 Chevy. Probably a sedan and not a wagonn. JWK

I beg to differ about it looking like any other limousine, especially with the roof texture and general configuration. There were very few Lincoln limos on the roads back then, especially ones with fabric covering the roof. Add to that the exposure it got after the assassination and I think it would be very recognizable. I'm actually surprised they didn't fly it up there. Of course, nothing about this case surprises me anymore. Since the car was used mainly in low-speed driving...very low in some cases, I'm thinking that the ride to Parkland was probably the first time it was really opened up. I've driven enough cars of that vintage (I currently own a 1961 Oldsmobile Super 88) to know that when driven slowly over a long period, they sometimes carbon up, or the 2 extra barrels on the carburetors get gunked up. I know that sometimes my Olds will almost stall if I suddenly hit the gas. I'm wondering if when Greer hit the gas pedal, it might have hesitated, and slowed down almost to a stop before finally catching and accelerating away. It could explain the sudden slowdown at the moment of the head shot. JWK I don't doubt your knowledge of cars, but now we have the 'gunk in the carburetor did it' varient. Enough coincidences for one day to add yet another, methinks. I assume the USG had enough money for good servicing of the engine - better than their 'servicing' of the Chief of State I'll wager. The brakelight issue is also not addressed by the gunk theory. I'm not suggesting for a minute that "gunk in the carburetor" killed JFK. Like any big event, it's always a bunch of small things that come together to create the larger event. This might be one of those small things that contributed. The traditional cure of a carboned up engine is to take it out on the highway once in a while to "blow the carbon out". Since this was mainly a parade car driven very slowly much of the time, I'm wondering what maintainance procedures were done to insure that it didn't get "gunked up" like grandma's car that she only drove to church once a week. Maybe they ran it down the runways at Andrews once a week to blow it out. I don't know. Thats why I was asking Pamela about the records. JWK

I beg to differ about it looking like any other limousine, especially with the roof texture and general configuration. There were very few Lincoln limos on the roads back then, especially ones with fabric covering the roof. Add to that the exposure it got after the assassination and I think it would be very recognizable. I'm actually surprised they didn't fly it up there. Of course, nothing about this case surprises me anymore. Since the car was used mainly in low-speed driving...very low in some cases, I'm thinking that the ride to Parkland was probably the first time it was really opened up. I've driven enough cars of that vintage (I currently own a 1961 Oldsmobile Super 88) to know that when driven slowly over a long period, they sometimes carbon up, or the 2 extra barrels on the carburetors get gunked up. I know that sometimes my Olds will almost stall if I suddenly hit the gas. I'm wondering if when Greer hit the gas pedal, it might have hesitated, and slowed down almost to a stop before finally catching and accelerating away. It could explain the sudden slowdown at the moment of the head shot. JWK

Pamela, Thanks for all the hard work you've put into the Limo over the years. Being a car nut, I've tended to focus on the vehicles involved in the case, and of course, the Limo is at the top of my list. There is one thing I've always wondered about, and maybe you know the answer. Why did Vaughn Ferguson drive the car to Dearborn rather than having it shipped in a van or at least on a flatbed? Can you imagine the attention he must have drawn driving that thing for 618 miles (according to my map program) on public roads? Did he have an escort or anything? It may not be sinister, but it sure is strange. Also, are there any maintainance records for the car prior to the assassination? JWK

On a lighter note, I ran across this picture of the Clintons taken somewhat later. Enjoy! JWK

Good grief! I'm "The Pope"!! JWK (aka The Pope)

From the NY Daily News: Buy the gun that killed JFK assassin BY OWEN MORITZ DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Friday, February 29th 2008, 4:47 AM Thing from the Addams Family movies and the hat belonging to the Wicked Witch of the West in 'The Wizard of Oz.' Warga/News Thing from the Addams Family movies and the hat belonging to the Wicked Witch of the West in 'The Wizard of Oz.' Superman is there, so is "The Godfather" - and John F. Kennedy, Jack Ruby, Elvis, Marilyn Monroe and Houdini. They - or at least things they used - are included in a strange amalgam of movie props and historical objects in what's being touted as the greatest postwar collection of pop culture ever to go to auction. The collection of hats, clothes, guns and knickknacks big and small, come from the vault of a New Jersey collector and are worth at least $5 million, says Guernsey's auction house in New York. The outfit showcased the items yesterday; they'll be auctioned March 15 and 16. While the auction includes John Lennon's "Imagine" jacket, Superman's movie outfit and Madonna's "Like a Virgin" wedding dress, not to mention Houdini's straitjacket, the star is Jack Ruby. He was the Dallas girlie-show promoter who shot JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald on national television two days after Kennedy was murdered in Dallas in November 1963. Ruby's .38-caliber Colt Cobra, owned by Earl Ruby, Jack's brother and executor of his estate, was sold in 1991. It ended up in the possession of Jersey supermarket developer Anthony Pugliese. "The most famous gun in the world," said Guernsey's president, Arlan Ettinger. The auction house would not release a price estimate; potential buyers will have to ask. The evidence tag for Ruby's gun can be had for $25,000; his leg chains for $5,000 to $10,000; a Ruby prison letter is expected to fetch $25,000 to $30,000; his gray hat $25,000 to $50,000 and the Florsheim wingtips he wore that day are expected to go for $7,500 to $10,000. "Many Americans have wondered what it would be like to walk in the shoes of men like Jack Ruby," the catalogue states, tongue planted firmly in cheek. The auction will be held in Las Vegas, but items can be bought online. omoritz@nydailynews.com JWK

This is the same car that Richard Bartholomew wrote about here, according to the license plate, and car's history is well documented in that article. This is a quick excerpt from the article... "George Gordon Wing, the owner of the car from April 1963 until his death in December 1991, was a Ph.D. and associate professor in the Spanish and Portuguese Department." As far as I know, Ruth Paine didn't own a Rambler station wagon. Sometimes her '55 or '56 Chevy wagon was confused with the Rambler whenever a "station wagon" is mentioned. The Paines owned the Chevy wagon, a mid-fifties Oldsmobile, and a Citroen. The only thing that ties Ruth Paine to having a Rambler wagon is when Oswald was asked about getting into a "Rambler station wagon", and he said something about not getting her involved. My thinking is that he keyed in on the word "station wagon" and assumed that they were talking about her and her car. JWK

Tosh, This might be a good place to start. JWK

Like you, Otto, I'm more a reader than a poster. I try to contribute what I can, but I can't compete with the heavyweights on here. However, I can tell you what the problem is lately.... Frustration. This subject has been studied and studied and studied over and over for over 40 years and there is still no clear picture of who/what/why. New discoveries are rare and old evidence is being looked at for the bazillionth time. Things are being seen that aren't there. Simple typos and mistakes are looked at as being part of the sinister plan. The most mundane of subjects are being hashed and rehashed like they really mean something. I remember a thread with hundreds of responses concerning whether or not the shoe in the famous "Kennedy's leg sticking out of the limo on Stemmons" picture had been retouched or not. What difference does it make if it was or not? None. Please pardon the analogy, but what happens to a bunch of rats in a cage after the food has run out. They turn on each other. I think that is what's happening on here. If everyone just takes a step back, realizes this fact, and stop the personal attacks on their fellow researchers, things will improve. Remember, everyone has a right to their opinion. Please, boys and girls. You're the best researchers in the business. Can't we all just get along and work together towards the final truth? Just my 2 cent's worth. JWK

I've always been impressed with Gary's knowledge of the assassination, and his willingness to share his expertise with anyone, on either side of the fence, in an impartial and neutral manner. I think that as a result of his job, he has to be on the LN side of that fence (at least publicly), however he spends lots of time looking over that fence towards our side, and occasionally even opening the gate between the two sides. I'm a very, very minor poster on this board, but he still spends the time and effort to email me concerning my comments and questions as he does with many others here. Thanks Gary. JWK

5900 Lemmon Ave and 6000 Lemmon Ave addresses are for the same building. The Eagle properties ran north from Atwell Street. Right now, there is a Home Depot between Attwell and Haggar, but it used to be an Eagle car dealer. They still have property north of Haggar. I'm guessing the contamination problem was discovered when Home Depot started building their store, or during the buying of the property. This building on Lemmon used to be the headquarters of TI and GSI back in the early days of the companies, and in fact, their only building at first. For most of those years until the present it's been a machine shop and the contaminants are coolants involved with metal cutting plus chemicals involved in treating metal parts. It's not surprising that 50+ years of manufacturing would let large amounts of coolant seep into the ground around the plant. It should be noted that Raytheon bought the defense division of TI back in 1997, and that included the Lemmon Ave. building, but operations at that facility didn't change one bit. We still cut the same parts for the same customer. Only the name on the outside of the building (and the name on the paychecks) changed. Texas Instruments used to be GSI (Geophysical Services Inc.). I've never heard of GEOTECHNICAL CORPORATION or GEOMARINE SERVICE INTERNATIONAL INC. That is what caught my eye when you made the posts. I was just trying to supply some background information about the addresses you listed and I wasn't intending to divert attention from your posts. The part about 'Jada' was merely an interesting sidenote about the area.

Thomas, I don't know where you're headed with this "explosive" thread, but a couple of address caught my eye. 5900 Lemmon Ave is the address of Texas Instruments in Dallas. I worked at this building for a number of years in fact. It's also the location where "Jada" ran over Charlie Burns with her Cadillac the morning of 11/22/63 just hours before JFK's motorcade drove by this very building on his way to historical immortality. 3712 Haggar Way is only one block to the north of the Texas Instruments Lemmon Ave. building. In fact, I believe our parking lot butted up against Haggar Way (at just about 3712 in fact) when I worked there. JWK