Steve Thomas
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Posts posted by Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
The first shot was more often than not described as sounding like a "firecracker" or "back fire ...from a car or motorcycle?
The second shot, same thing.
But, the third shot ( the JFK head shot ) was described by a fair amount of bystanders as sounding different ( louder and/or more powerful) than the first two.
I always considered this testimony as much more worthy of consideration regards more than one gun used in JFK's shooting.
Joe,
I've always thought the first shot was from a .22, and that's why it was described as a "crack" as opposed to a "boom".
I live in the country, and around this time of year (fall), a lot of guys around me are sighting in their rifles for the beginning of hunting season. You can definitely tell the difference.
Steve Thomas
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Echoes from the past.
https://www.alternet.org/human-rights/profiting-americas-longest-war-trump-seeks-exploit-mineral-wealth-afghanistan
" Afghanistan’s deposits of iron, copper, zinc, gold, silver, lithium and other rare-earth metals are estimated to be worth roughly $1 trillion, a price tag which has intrigued the business mogul-turned-President Trump. "
Steve Thomas
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4 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:
Are this 14 boxes available online?
Karl,
Here's what I wrote on another thread:
"I indexed those files back in 2008. You can see them here:
New Dallas Documents Online
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/12338-new-dallas-documents-online/
Back then I urged them to donate the material to the Mary Ferrell site where they would be keyword searchable, but to no avail.
The Dallas Morning News url link doesn't work anymore - they took it down. Sigh."
Steve Thomas
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10 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
Steve - what's best conclusion to draw from the non existence of the 599th Ordinance Group? That Dinkins, in his 1964 statements to the FBI, lied, if the FBI report of 1964 is to be believed.
Paul,
I'm sorry, but I still think I'm with Larry Hancock on this. I'd like to see what unit Dinkin was supposed to be with and what his Military Occupational Specialty was supposed to be.
For one thing, Dinkin was a private. From what I've read, privates don't do analysis. They might do intercepts, but they would forward that intercepted raw data on to someone else to do the analysis. And what "cable traffic" was Dinkin supposed to have intercepted? Shortwave radio? telegraph? Morse Code? Is there any indication in Dinkin's military record that he knew any of that?
Look at the post by Thomas Graves on page 2 of this thread. Quote:
" The Mary Ferrell website says that Dinkin was trained by the Army to be a "cryptographic code operator."
"FWIW, "Cryptographic Code Operator" is not listed in this (unofficial) list of Vietnam War - era Army MOSes.
http://ed-thelen.org/MOS-Vietnam-era.html
Nor is it to be found in this list of Army MOSes from 1950:
You might also want to look through the references that Peter Lemkin compiled in the Deep Politics Forum here:
"Much needed bump and a bit 'o other details"
10-05-2013, 02:15 PM
DINKIN:
DOB: 6/10/38. POB: Chicago, IL. US Army personnel in Metz said Dinkin first predicted JFK to be assassinated 11/28/63 and then changed it to 11/22/63. U.S. Army PFC, Serial # RA 76710292. Received discharge from US Army after 4 months detention for psychological testing. (See DINKINS)
# RA 76710292, left his unit in Metz on 4 Nov 1963, day he was scheduled for psychiatric exam. Turned up in Geneva Nov 6-7 in Press Room of United Nations office. Told reporters he was being persecuted. (See DINKIN)
CD 321-b,p.5, CIA 227-648, CD 788; CD 943; CD 1107, pp. 354-362; CIA 19-530; CIA 22-531; CIA 121-53; CIA 227-648 (re-released as JFK 104-10015-10231 , Lifton's pp. 134-137); CIA 699-305; JFK Collection List, pg. 41 (AMKW 79); Kennedy Conspiracy, Flammonde, p. 162; The Man Who Knew Too Much, Russell, pp. 553-557; 104-10400-10041 ; 104-10400-10042 ; 104-10400-10043I'd like to see Dinkin's military service record.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
Once again I just ask for someone to show me some sort of proof that Dinkin was a crypto code operator - for the Army - and that his job in 1963 involved that sort of work, that also means showing what unit he was in and that it was tasked with secure communications.
Of course it could be all about reading newspapers and interpreting articles.
Larry,
Thanks for bringing this up.
If you go back to the first page of this thread, Lisa Pease posted:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/7078-eugene-dinkin/
“On April 1, 1964, Mr. Eugen B. Dinkin, ... advised Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that he had been recently discharged from the United States Army...”
“Dinkin advised that he had been in trouble with the officers of his military group, the 599th Ordnance Group stationed in Germany, due to his refusal to purchase United States savings bonds.”
“As a result of his opposition to the bond purchases, according to Dinkin, he was removed from his position in the code section and transferred to an Army Depot at Metz, France.”
I've looked, and there ain't no animal called the "599th Ordnance Group"
I've run across references to 599th Battalions, and Companies, but no such thing as an Ordnance Group. Army Groups aren't set up that way.
And, as for me, I'm finding it hard to understand how somebody involved in depot and ordnance work could be involved in cryptography.
Steve Thomas
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10 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:
CIA archive reveals existence of secret network of ex-spies
Mr. Caddy,
Thank you for referencing this. I will read it closely.
Without minimalizing or detracting from what you are directing people to, I was fascinated by the html coding of your referenced lead. I had never seen that before.
Steve Thomas
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5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
But regardless, I agree (that) this was a cold, impersonal killing. Military precision and planning.
Joe,
As you put it, Willie Somersett asked the essential question:
SOMERSETT: “Well how in the hell do you figure would be the best way to get him”?
That's it in a nutshell.
The way I see it, is that the people who conceived the idea, were not the same people who planned it.
The people who planned it were not the same people who carried it out.
The people who carried it out were not the same people who covered it up.
I think Oliver Stone had it right in the basic outline. JFK's assassination was conceived by a cabal consisting of a military guy, a mob guy, a military-industrial guy and a spy guy at a minimum.
You had a small group of men sitting in the cigar-smoke filled den of somebody's home, or the private dining room of the Navy Club or whatever, and somebody says, “That sum-a-bitch Kennedy has got to go”. And the group says, “Hear, hear”.
And somebody in the group turns to the military guy and asks, “General, you kill people for a living. What do you think would be the best way to carry it out”? And the military guy says, “If I wanted to ensure success, I'd set up enfilading fields of fire, and with a crossfire, hit him from the front and the back, and the side so that there would be no chance of escape”.
And somebody turns to the mob guy and says, “You take contracts out on people all the time. Do you have any killers out there who could pull it off”?
And the mob guy says, “Yeah, we got a stable full of guys. I could bring in some people from out of town, and maybe even from out of the country.
And somebody in the group says, “Well, if they're from out of town, they're not going to be familiar with the territory. And the military guys says, “I know some people from the local Army Reserve down there who could help with transportation, and lodging and escape routes and stuff”.
And somebody in the group says, “That's going to cost a lot of money, what with the contract, and all the arrangements. And the military-industrial guy says, “I can take care of that – maybe even pay them off in heroin so there's no paper trail. And the mob guy says, “I could do that too.”
And somebody in the group turns to the spy guy and asks, “Secret Agent man, you deal in smoke and mirrors for a living, how could it be done so that it couldn't be traced back to us?” And the spy guy says, “Don't worry. There are so many people out there with a grudge against Kennedy that I'll plant so many false leads leading back to the mafia, and the anti-Castro people and so on, that people will be chasing their tails for years. We've also got ways to finger some poor dumb schmuck to take the fall.”
And somebody says, “Yeah, but we've also got to screw up the physical evidence and the body.”
And (probably the military guy) says, “I can do that with my local contacts down there, and make sure we have control of the autopsy.”
And everything is compartmentalized that no single person knows the full extent of the plot, only their small part of it. The group decides to execute this plan when JFK is out of town and decides on several opportunities, Chicago, Miami and Dallas.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
Steve Thomas
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9 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
Steve, Stu and I explore Milteer in a fair amount of detail... in general was a right wing political gadfly...
Larry,
Thanks. That was a good choice of words.
Steve Thomas
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On 9/23/2017 at 1:25 AM, Joe Bauer said:
Foreknowledge of the assassination, or just a lucky guess coupled with an uncanny understanding of how such things work?
Who was Joseph Milteer?
Joe,
I've been thinking about Milteer a little bit the last couple of days - not so much for the right wing background you mentioned, but the bit about a high powered-rifle from a tall building.
In every political assassination I can think of, Julius Caesar, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, etc., these killings were up close and personal. Their killers were described as lone nuts, not just because they were a little crazy, but also because the killers saw a political situation, and made it personal.
JFK's killing was cold, dispassionate. It was done from a distance, with military precision, with a reasonable chance of escape without capture. It was a political, or economic act, not a personal one. There doesn't seem to be any emotion tied to JFK's killing. I don't believe James Files, but wasn't it he who said, it was no different than taking out the garbage.
So, with Joseph Milteer, what do we know about his background? How did he make his living? Where did he go to school? What was his family like? Did he serve in the military, and if so, where and what was his MOS, or military occupational specialty? Is there any evidence of him meeting with any military people, or CIA people prior to the assassination?
Steve Thomas
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3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:
Steve,
The HSCA was established in 1977. Do you suggest that they have data on the Dallas Minutemen from 1963? Because that would be the truly relevant data when investigating the JFK assassination.
From what I gather at first glance, the earliest HSCA documents on the Minutemen are from 1965. I think that's too late.
In my opinion, the JFK conspirators were all in hiding starting in 1964, because their attempt at a Coup failed -- that is -- they did not get an invasion of Cuba as they had hoped.
Regards,
--Paul TrejoPaul,
I went through those files a while back, and from what I could gather, there was a real flurry of FBI activity against the Minutemen in January of 1964. The number of memos back and forth really picked up. It seemed like there was a real (or imagined) fear of a Minuteman uprising at that time; or at least that's the line Hoover was pushing.
The HSCA didn't instigate those FBI files in 1977, that's just when they requested the FBI to hand them over.
Steve Thomas
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9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:
So, this brings us back to Dallas and the DALLAS Minutemen specifically. Who was the leader of the DALLAS Minutemen? James Hosty gives us the answer in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996).
--Paul TrejoPaul,
You might want to go through the FBI HSCA Subject files here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1479
There's a lot of info on the Dallas chapter..
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
They are giving it to the Sixth Floor? Why? What is wrong with the Dallas city archives? God, the CIA knew what they were doing with Briggs stationed there, right?
About Leavelle, don't forget her visit to Vickie Adams Ron. What a cock and bull story he unloaded on her.
Cory and James,
I indexed those files back in 2008. You can see them here:
New Dallas Documents Online
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/12338-new-dallas-documents-online/
Back then I urged them to donate the material to the Mary Ferrell site where they would be keyword searchable, but to no avail.
The Dallas Morning News url link doesn't work anymore - they took it down. Sigh.
Steve Thomas
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On 9/20/2017 at 4:57 PM, Paul Brancato said:
Theory - assassins were hired in Europe, probably not Mafia, but perhaps Corsican. The link is the still unidentified QJWIN, contacted by Harvey. The network that QJWIN taps into is probably Gladio (Lemnitzer), a CIA/Nazi/Mafia terrorist network with close ties to the international drug trade. The overheard radio traffic by - help me remember where this came from and who he was, maybe Dinkin - about the OAS ties directly into this theory. Was he Army?
The conspiracy to kill JFK is all CIA and US military at the highest levels, outsourced very carefully, and covered adroitly with all manner of rabbit holes to get lost in.
oh, and one more thing - Pease says that Angleton was ex-Army Colonel. That's for Steve Thomas, if you are reading.
Paul,
You might be interested in reading this thread back in 2004 on the Education Forum:
French Connection
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2260-french-connection/
And yes, it was Dinkin you were thinking of.
Steve Thomas
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6 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:
Steve,
Thank you. Is there a version of this handwritten note that is not redacted? There seems to be a block redacted in the top middle.
Keyvan
Kevyn,
On p. 214 of the book I cited above (American Heart of Darkness), the author says that only 9 pages out of 43 have survived, and that some sections were blacked out in one version, and not in others.
A fuller copy of the handwritten notes can be found on the Mary Ferrell site here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=66058&search=ZRRIFle#relPageId=2&tab=page
Another version of the typed transcription can be found here:
https://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg05640.html
One thing you could do is open two tabs, one with the handwritten copy, and one with the typed transcription and compare them side by side.
You might be interested in reading:
Church Committee: Interim Report - Alleged Assassination Plots Involving Foreign Leaders
beginning on page 183 here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1156&relPageId=197&search=William_Harvey
The Senators question Harvey about his notes.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:
Steve,
Concerning your comment about Corsicans rather than Mafia, Is there a handwritten note from Harvey?
Keyvan,
On William Harvey's notes on the ZRRIFLE Project:
The handwritten note here:
https://www.memresearch.org/econ/zrrifle.jpg
A typed version here beginning on p. 216 (see p. 218):
Steve Thomas
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10 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
Lemnitzer didn't start Gladio, but he ran it while in Europe, and I think he is of great interest here, because the assassins that were hired to do the hit on JFK came out of the Gladio network - no proof of that just hunch. Read Gladio, by Richard Cottrell. Plus, look the Army Intel, Army reserve etc presence at Dealey Plaza and with connections to DPD.
Paul,
I think I tend to agree with you.
Lately, I've been speculating lately on "revenge as motive" for the hit on JFK.
Not so much for what he "might" do with respect to getting out of Vietnam, or eliminating the oil depletion allowance, etc., but for what JFK "had" done; and looking at the people who had been "exiled to the frontier". So far, I've come up with Lyman Lemnitzer and William King Harvey, who was transferred to Rome after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remember his handwritten ZR/Rifle to use Corsicans rather than Mafia. Being CIA Station Chief in Rome would make him pretty well positioned to find some.
I think they sat out there in the boondocks and stewed.
In ancient Roman times, wasn't it the generals who had been banished to Gaul who were always stirring up trouble, with this legion or that legion always seemingly ready to "cross the Rubicon" at any moment?
Although they weren't exiled, I'd add Allen Dulles and Charles Cabell, who were forced into retirement rather than banished to the frontier.
Anybody else you can think of that fit this bill?
As far as the Army Reserve Colonels, I think they were more "boots on the ground" than anything; the "mechanics" of how it went down.
Steve Thomas
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This is not to say that there wasn't a CIA file on a Harvey Lee Oswald, it's just that I am interested in such files that were not CIA related.
I've collected a few references that I have run across and, by no means, is this a comprehensive list.
Probe Magazine From the January-February, 1998 issue (Vol. 5 No. 2)
http://www.ctka.net/pr198-jfk.html
Harvey, Lee and Tippit:
A New Look at the Tippit ShootingBy John Armstrong
John asks, Why does Sheriff Decker's file list the assailant's name as "Harvey Lee Oswald"?
(What Decker file is John Armstrong referring to?)
WC testimony of Earlene Roberts April 8, 1964
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/robertse.htm
Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that?
Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me.
Mr. BALL. What did they say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books and I said, "No; there's no one here by that name," and they tried to make me remember and I couldn't, and Mrs. Johnson come in in the meantime and there wasn't nobody there by that name, and Mrs. Johnson said, "Mrs. Roberts, don't you have him?" And, I said, "No; we don't, for here is my book and there is nobody there by that name." We checked it back a year.
Mr. BALL. And you didn't have that name you didn't ever know his name was Lee Oswald?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald.At 2:40 PM, W.E. Potts, B.L. Senkel and Lt. E.L. Cunningham were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley. Potts wrote in his after-action report (Box 2, Folder# 9, Item# 32) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that after he finished taking some affidavits, Fritz dispatched them to the Beckely St address at 2:40 and they arrived at Beckley at 3:00PM.
DPD Archives Box 3, Folder# 12, Item# 1 Undated Report of B.L. Senkel.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm
He rode in the left rear seat of the motorcade's pilot car along with Deputy Chief George Lumpkin, F.M. Turner, George L. Whitmeyer, and Jack Puterbaugh.
(Lumpkin and Whitmeyer were Army Intelligence Reserves).
Walter E. Potts, Billy L. Senkel and Fay M. Turner were Detectives in Will Fritz's Homicide Bureau.
Lt. Elmo L. Cunningham was a lieutenant in the Forgery Bureau. Both Bureaus were part of the Criminal Investigation Division.
Batchelor's Exhibit 5002 (19H)
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
CE 2003 located in (24H259) is the list submitted to Captain Gannaway through Jack Revill of TSBD employees. It is dated November 22, 1963. Heading that list is Harvey Lee Oswald at 605 Elsbeth. The Report submitted to Gannaway says it is coming thru Jack Revill. Page 3 of CE 2003, found on page 260, is signed by R.W. Westphal, Detective, Criminal Intelligence Section and P.M. Parks, Detective, Administrative Section. R.W. Westphal and P.M. Parks were both Detectives in the Special Service Bureau. Carroll and Taylor were also Detectives in that Bureau. W.P. Gannaway was the Captain and Revill was one of the Lieutenants.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
WC testimony of FBI Agent, John Lester Quigley, who interviewed Oswald in New Orleans on August 10, 1963.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/quigley.htm
Quigley told the WC that he got a call from Lt. Francis L. Martello, platoon commander of the First District, New Orleans Police Station saying that the police had a prisoner who wanted to talk to an FBI Agent. When Quigley got there, Oswald was introduced to him as Harvey Lee Oswald.
There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:
https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK
I think this is in the Weisberg collection.
L.D. Stringfellow was a Detective in the Dallas Police Department's Special Service Bureau of which Revill was a Lieutenant.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
1) Note the reference in this military intelligence file's cable to Harvey Lee Oswald
2) Earlene Roberts told the WC that when the police came to 1026 N. Beckley, they were trying to find a guy named Harvey Lee Oswald
3) The list of TSBD employees prepared for Gannaway by Westphal and Parks thru Revill on Friday afternoon listed Harvey Lee Oswald at 605 Elsbeth
3) In the Stringfellow cable referenced above, Harvey Lee Oswald was described as 5'10" tall, 165 lbs, with blue eyes
4) The initial description broadcast over the DPD radio at 12:45 P.M. was for a suspect approximately 30 years old, weighing 165 lbs and nobody knows where that description came from.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm
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I once posed the question, "How did the police first learn of the 1026 N. Beckley address?". Fritz told the WC that some officer (whose name he couldn't remember) stopped him out in the hall before he went in to talk to LHO for the first time, and told him that Oswald lived on Beckley. My conclusion then, was the information came from source in military intelligence.
Others have come to the same conclusion.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=8636.0;wap2
Was Billy Senkel the officer who told Fritz about 1026 N. Beckley and was he dispatched there looking for a Harvey Lee Oswald because of his association with Lumpkin and Whitmeyer?
I don't know what this all means. What I am thinking right now is that members of the U.S. Army Reserves (in some capacity, whether it was Crichton's mythical 488th or not) had put together a dossier of a blue-eyed, 5'10" 165 lb Harvey Lee Oswald that they handed over to the Dallas Police Department. They told the police, "This is the guy you're looking for. He lives over on Beckley"
I think this dossier had been shared with other police departments around the country such as New Orleans.
Oswald is referred to as Harvey Lee Oswald in an FBI report coming out of Mobile, AL on 12/24/63
(23H372) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=404&tab=page
Oswald is referred to as Harvey Lee Oswald in an FBI report coming out of Sherman Oaks, CA on 11/29/63 (23H207) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=239&tab=page
Chuck Schwartz in the Education Forum on June 2, 2016 in the thread entitled, “Two Dallas cops were involved in the pre-arranged murder of Tippit...”
Quoting from Peter Dale Scott's Deep Politics & the Death of JFK, Chuck posts:
“Federal Bureau of Investigation agents, military intelligence teams from the army, navy, and air force, and other federal agencies with investigators operating from headquarters here…The job of [Revill's] intelligence section in Capt. Gannaway's bureau…requires the closest cooperation with these other governmental agencies gathering intelligence on subversive groups suspected of espionage…With membership in a national police intelligence organization known as LEIU (Law Enforcement Intelligence Units) the local officers are able to get information almost immediately on suspected subversives when they move into Dallas. This information is exchanged by police units as these persons move from city to city…Employees in [industrial] plants are carefully screened by security conscious personnel officers, and in key jobs are given strict government security clearances. Industry is taking great strides to upgrade security practices. One such group in this area is the American Society for Industrial Security.”
“ One can see how easily a false legend for Oswald could have been generated in the shared files of this coordinated security campaign, involving the Dallas SSB, FBI, military intelligence, and the American Society for Industrial Security. Such a centralized file system could be the source for the recurring (and unexplained) inversion of Oswald's name, as Harvey Lee Oswald, in the files of the Dallas police (e.g., 19 WH 438, 24 WH 259), FBI (e.g., 23 WH 207, 23 WH 373), Secret Service (16 WH 721, 748), army intelligence, and navy intelligence.”
“America's Secret Police Network”, by George O'Toole. Penthouse Magazine, December, 1976. pp. 77-82, cont'd on pp. 194-206.
https://fightgangstalking.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/americas-secret-police-network1.pdf
“The LEIU links the intelligence squads of almost every major police force in the United States and Canada.... The organization (LEIU) forms a vast network of intelligence units that exchange dossiers and conduct investigations on a reciprocal basis.” O'Toole goes on to say that the CIA often recruited sources within local police departments and that co-opting local police in foreign countries is “standard CIA operating procedure”.
(I'm thinking of Westbrook going to Saigon to train the local police after he left the DPD).
O'Toole also wrote about how closely Army Intelligence worked with local police and cites the case of the Chicago Police being in “daily contact” with the 113th Military Intelligence Group in the late 1960's and early 1970's.
Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XVIII
Current Section: CE 985 - Letter from the Department of State to the Commission, dated May 18, 1964, with attached documents from the ...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22
There's a file on a Harvey Lee Oswald that goes back to at least the 1960 – 61, time frame
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD: SUBJECT - HARVEY LEE OSWALD
The author of this memorandum is unknown. The subject of the memo is Harvey Lee Oswald. It looks like it dates from 1972.
“The DC/CI (counterintelligence) advised me that the Director had relayed via the DDP (Deputy Director of Plans) the injunction that the Agency was not, under any circumstances, to make inquiries or ask questions of any source or defector about Oswald.”
The Soviets rejected the Soviet citizenship application of Harvey Lee Oswald.
I have not fleshed this out, but I have read in the past that there was a CIA file under the name Harvey Lee Oswald, and it ties back to the Mexico City incident and Angleton's mole hunt. This Harvey Lee Oswald file may indeed go back as far as Oswald's fake defection to Russia in 1960. As Dulles was the former Director of the CIA, he would more than likely have been aware of it.
The Harvey Lee Oswald name can't be attributed to a simple inversion, or a mistake, or a typo. It appears in too many places. You have it showing up in Military Intelligence files, FBI files, and local law enforcement files. I believe that a dossier on a Harvey Lee Oswald was circulated or shared across many different intelligence agencies. Now when that dossier was started, and by whom and for what purpose, are open questions.
And it's not just U.S. Files. The letter from Anatoly Dobrynin to the U.S. State Department concerning Harvey Lee Oswald's request for Soviet citizenship is dated December, 1963. It doesn't say when he applied for that citizenship, but the character reference memo from the Minsk Radio factory is dated December 11, 1961 and refers to “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald.
On page 430 of CE 985 (cited just above), there is a Certificate dated January 1, 1960 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant.
“Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald was hired as a regulator at the Minsk Radio Plant on January 13, 1960.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22
So, “Comrade” Lee Harvey Oswald went from being employed as an assembler in the Minsk Plant on January 1, 1960 to being “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald hired as a “regulator in the experimental shop of the plant” on January 13th
hmmmmmm...
I would be interested in learning of any other official non-CIA or non-FBI references to Harvey Lee Oswald that anyone may come across. I already know of several civilian instances.
Steve Thomas
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42 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:
Well this is taking the thread off topic again but as does happen Jim D and I do disagree at times. Personally I find the remark that Putin " has done all he could to restore living standards, establish pensions, and improve respect for the law and stop the looting by the oligarchs" to be a bit too similar to remarks about trains running on time in Italy under Fascism - true in parts but far short of the full picture of Fascism in Italy and Germany - or of Putin's return to power in Russia. Especially the part about the oligarch looting, which is true but really applies to those oligarchs he could not bring under control and keep within his own domain. So for the sake of transparency, I offer the following sources as starters for those interested in this and with a counter view of Putin and affairs in Russia, especially since 2008. All the Kremlin's Men by Mikhail Zygar, The New Nobility by Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, Winter is Coming by Garry Kasparov and Putin's War Against Ukraine by Taras Kuzio, published with the chair of Ukrainian Studies at the University of Toronto.
I admit to having certain political worldviews myself, both the US and Russia have been conducting political warfare for a good while now, with Russia having a far longer history with it, extending back to its Imperial days and the "great game" against the British Empire across Asia. I'm not willing to give either party much of a pass in terms of stirring the pot of world affairs.
Jim,
I'm sorry, but I think I have to agree with Larry on this. I was reading the other day that with the fall of the Soviet Union, and the collapse of the ruble, a lot of the Soviet oligarchs moved their money out of the Soviet Union into the West, in particular, into Western real estate. I think I read that Putin is the richest man in the world with an estimated personal fortune in excess of $200 billion? That doesn't sound much like "stopping the looting" to me.
With respect to Douglas Caddy's original post, two things caught my attention:
1) In the Global Research article by Carl Gibson, when he talks about the Northwoods Memorandum, Gibson writes that the memo is in response to a "request by the "Chief of Operations, Cuba Project" for pretexts which would provide justification for U.S. military intervention..."
The way this cover memo reads, Northwoods wasn't the original brainchild of the Joint Chiefs. They were tasked to do this by somebody else. Or was this cover memo just a CYA beaureaucratise?
Does anyone know who this memo is referring to? Is it a military branch? or a CIA division? or the "Special Group Augmented? and who was the "Chief"? Bobby Kennedy?
2) In that same memo, it says that "It is assumed that there will be similar submissions from other agencies..."
Does anyone know of any other "submissions" by "other agencies" for projects along the line of Northwoods?
Steve Thomas
PS: Larry,
Russia and China are going to butt heads in Central Asia I think.
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4 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
Even with the internet, I think we still have some issues around duplicated effort and of course people like me don’t even pretend to have the encyclopedic knowledge such that I know immediately what was already investigated and what may still be left out there to pursue. If you know anything about the following items, please reply; I’m especially interested to hear if the incident was investigated and found meaningless, or really any comments you have.
Jason,
You might be interested in the thread entitled, "Erasing the past to protect a fairytale" by Arjan Hut in the JFK Assassination Forum here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12623.0.html?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff
I personally have found his work very eye opening.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
Who is the last witness?
Jim,
The book was co-authored by William Reymond and Billie Sol Estes. From what I can gather, Estes is the "last witness" and lays the blame for JFK's assassination at the feet of LBJ.
Estes' claim is based on audio tapes of conversations he had with Johnson aide, Cliff Carter.
Published in France under the title as Chris said, " JFK le dernier témoin , (translated as The Last Witness") I've read two reviews that said the book was never published in English.
I have not read the book, or its Preface or Foreword.
Mark, if you don't read French, you can do a Google search for "The Last Witness" and get a sense of what the book is about from people who do.
Steve Thomas
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53 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:
Throw this on to the Devil's Chessboard. As brother of the Deputy Director and himself an asset since 56 he most assuredly was well known to Dulles. He was also most likely PO'd at JFK over the public humiliation of brother and Dulles firing.
I've wondered about a possible connection along these lines for several years. This points further towards it.
Ron,
Ah yes, revenge as motive. And it wasn't just about "public humiliation". Read that thread about the C.J. Drilling Co. This guy had major assets seized by Castro when he nationalized the oil and gas industry in 1959.
It wasn't about being threatened by the oil depletion allowance. Look at how many of these Army Reserve Colonels were involved in the oil industry. These guys wanted their money back, and when Kennedy refused to invade Cuba after the Bay of Pigs in 1961, and especially after the Cuba Missile Crisis in the fall of 1962...
Mobil was previously known as the as the Socony-Vacuum Oil Company
Vacuum Oil Company
"Vacuum Oil Company was an American oil company known for their Gargoyle 600-W Steam Cylinder Oil. Vacuum Oil merged with Standard Oil Co of New York, commonly known as Socony Oil to form Socony-Vacuum Oil Company, and is now a part of ExxonMobil.
Vacuum Oil and Standard Oil of New York (Socony) merged in 1931, after the government gave up attempts to prevent it. At the time, the newly combined company made Socony-Vacuum Corp. the 3rd largest oil company, worldwide. Everest remained with the firm, and was given a salaried job as president.
During World War II, the Tschechowitz I & II subcamps of Auschwitz in Czechowice-Dziedzice provided forced labor for Vacuum Oil Company facilities in Poland which were captured and operated by Nazi Germany.
It's not about communism, or fascism - those are just tools.
It's the money.
Steve Thomas
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11 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
Steve, when I was following another thread of yours, I was looking into this. I found that 10th did, at the time did pass through Patton at least to Crawford and possibly beyond to Becky. I wasn't following this same story you are following now so I don't recall making mental notes beyond Crawford.
Edit, about a third of the way down you can see that tenth used to pass through Patton.
Michael,
Thank you. You're right.
If you go to Google Maps and take a look at the street view south down Crawford between 9th and Jefferson, you can see that they turned 10th St. into a little alley running between Patton and at least as far as Storey. Maybe back in '63, 10th did run as far as Beckley. I'm not sure what that building is on the east side of 10th and Beckley looking east down 10th, but comparing that now to the City Directory in 1961; between expanding that Adamson High School grounds on 9th, it looks like they eliminated a bunch of apartment buildings too. The whole idea of eliminating three whole blocks of a paved street just kind of threw me there.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/3/2017 at 7:28 AM, Steve Thomas said:
I searched through the 1961 Dallas City Directory, and it does not show a Mobil gas station at 10th and Beckley.
I honestly don't know what's going on here. Hutson told the WC:Mr. HUTSON. I exited off Jefferson and went to the 400 block of East Jefferson Boulevard and began a search of the two-story house behind 10th Street where the officer had been shot.Mr. BELIN. All right.Mr. HUTSON. And after we searched this area, I got in the squad car with Officer Ray Hawkins, who was driving, and Officer Baggett was riding in the back seat.Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?Mr. HUTSON. We proceeded west on 10th Street to Beckley, and we pulled into the Mobil gas station at Beckley and 10th Street.Mr. BELIN. That is a Mobil gas station?Mr. HUTSON. Yes.There was no Mobil gas station at 10th and Beckley, and you can't drive west on 10th from Patton. 10th St. dead ends at Patton, and doesn't pick up again until you get to Beckley.In the picture on the left, you are standing in the intersection of 10th and Patton looking west down 10th. It dead ends. The picture on the right shows this street layout.What in the world was Hutson talking about? -
On 3/17/2017 at 7:20 AM, Steve Thomas said:
The account of T.A. Hutson is very interesting.
Ray Hawkins and T.A. Hutson both participated in the apprehension of Lee Oswald.
Ray Hawkins call sign was 211
T.A. Hutson call sign was 284
J.D. Tippit is shot. Multiple units respond. A search of the houses in the vicinity is undertaken. The search of the houses proves fruitless. A suspect is spotted at the Library. Multiple units respond.
Sometime between the search of the houses and the sighting of a suspect at the Library, Hawkins and Hutson make a stop at a Mobile Gas Station at 10th and Beckley to make a phone call, supposedly in response from a request from Dispatch to call in.
I do not find any reference to this phone call in the Dispatch tapes.
Mr. HUTSON. We proceeded west on 10th Street to Beckley, and we pulled into the Mobil gas station at Beckley and 10th Street.
Mr. BELIN. That is a Mobil gas station?
Mr. HUTSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. HUTSON. And Officer Ray Hawkins and Officer Baggett went inside of the Mobil gas station. And I am not positive, but I think they used the telephone to call in.
I am not positive, but I believe they gave us a call for us to call. I mean their number to call in.I searched through the 1961 Dallas City Directory, and it does not show a Mobil gas station at 10th and Beckley.
According to the 1961 Dallas City Directory:
10th and Beckley is the dividing line numbering the streets running north and south, and streets running east and west.
On the northwest corner of that intersection is the Cliff Temple Baptist Church Sunday School Bldg.
The northeast corner of that intersection is now a parking lot.
103 N. Beckley Ave. = Walker's Texaco Service Station
Walker, Reagan L. Walker. Walker's Texaco Service Station 103 N. Beckley Ave.
10th west from Beckley = 109 W. 10th is the Debrocque Appts.
According to Google Maps, 109 W. 10th is now a bus station
121 – 126 W. 10th is the Cliff Temple Baptist Church and Annex
10th east from Beckley = 101 E. 10th is the YMCA Oak Cliff Branch
102 E. 10th was the Dunnigan H O Service Station
Dunnigan, Howard O. Dunnigan H O Service Station 102 E. 10th. Spouse Thelma L. Thelma owned Thelma's Beauty Salon. home address and address of beauty shop: 2930 W. Jefferson Blvd.
102 E. 10th is now F&W Auto Sales tel. 946-5504 Used Car Sales. It appears run down and abandoned.
This raises several possibilities:
1) Hutson's account of a stop at a Mobil gas station so Hawkins could make a phone call was totally fabricated. There is no reference to this phone call in the Dispatch tapes, nor do Baggett or Hawkins reference it in their after-action reports or in Hawkins' WC testimony;
2) Hutson mistook Walker's Texaco Station or Dunnigan's Service Station as a Mobil station;
3) The possible involvement of one or more people at either the Walker Texaco station or Dunnigan's Service Station that has never come to light, that Hutson tried to hide by mislabeling it as a Mobil station;
4) something that I haven't thought of.
It's all very curious.
Steve Thomas
Number of shots in Dealy Plaza?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Michael,
I can't speak to the number of shots, but for me, the best evidence for conspiracy has always been the number of shots that missed. Not the ones that hit, but the number that missed.
Steve Thomas