Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
That is interesting Steve. ONI almost had to have been doing the same thing then I would presume.
Jim,
This is just for your own curiosity:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm
Mr. OFSTEIN Well, when I went in the service I was interested in radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to Monterey to study.
Submitted by Walter Chisholmhttp://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/ArmySecurityAgency.php
“Most enlistees who joined the Army when I did, did so for a period of three years and that was my intention, too. However, after taking the ordinary battery of tests given to new recruits, I and two others in my group were called aside and taken to a room to talk to another recruiter. He told us that our high scores on those tests qualified us to join an elite group of soldiers in the "Army Security Agency". Of course we had never heard of the ASA and when we asked questions he seemed quite evasive saying only that it was so secret that he couldn't tell us much about it, but he used the words "Top Secret" several times. Sounded very "cloak and dagger. He made a point that "you don't have much time to decide. If you accept, I have to get you on a plane to Fort Jackson SC where you will undergo basic training and then go on to your ASA schooling." We were at the induction station in Louisville KY and I had expected to go to basic just down the road at Fort Knox KY. At the time, I had never flown on a commercial airliner and the prospect of doing so, probably helped to sway my decision. Anyway, that and the way he didn't explain it, made it sound so intriguing that all three of us took the bait. Then he said "One more thing...because the ASA schooling is considerably more extensive than most other MOS's...many take from 6 to 12 months...the required period of enlistment is four years instead of the usual three". We all three thought about it for a moment, but it didn't deter us. We signed the paper and took the oath of enlistment”.
After basic at Fort Jackson, I arrived at Fort Devens in March of 1964. Upon arrival there everyone was first assigned to Charlie Company. Before anyone could start training, a complete background investigation had to be performed by the FBI. That sometimes took a few weeks. C-company was a holding company where you spent most of your time pulling KP, Police Call, or other such menial tasks while you waited for your security clearance to arrive. I was transferred to A-company during training”.
Steve Thomas
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On 2/28/2017 at 0:44 AM, James DiEugenio said:
Its clear to me that Oswald was recruited into intelligence work though ONI while in the Marines.
Jim,
I had done some reading about the 507th USASA Group a while back. (This was the unit that Dennis Offstein of Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall and Thomas Crigler - the recruiting Sergeant Offstein went to to check up on Oswald, belonged to.) In reading through some of the blog entries, I discovered that the Army Security Agency hit these guys up when they first enlisted - even before they went through boot camp. They were even enlisted for a longer period of time than a normal enlistment. After basic training, the ASA and FBI conducted their background checks. What do you think of the idea that ONI was following the same procedure - i.e., that Oswald was recruited when he enlisted?
Steve Thomas
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3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
FBI Agent Bob Barrett flat out called McDonald a xxxx about what had transpired in the theater. Oh, but it was done in the nicest beureacratese and legalese.
"I could not account for any statements made or not made by Officer McDonald."
This is from Barrett's summary of his testimony before the Senate Select Committee in December of 1975.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9914#relPageId=21&tab=page
page 21.
Steve Thomas
I guess certain words aren't permitted by the forum's software. Which is understandable.
I forgot to mention that the police had no intention of shooting Oswald in the theater - for resisting arrest or otherwise.
The intent was to draw and quarter him.
"I also recalled that Oswald was seized by two or three officers on his left and two or three officers on his right and placed under control... I recalled observing the officers on one side going in the opposite direction from the officers on the other side of Oswald for just a brief moment."
Bob Barrett p. 21.
So, I hope that settles that argument.
Here's a copy of Barrett's 11/22/63 FD-302 that's referred to in his 1975 Senate Committee testimony.:
It's a shame he didn't mention the wallet.
Steve Thomas
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FBI Agent Bob Barrett flat out called McDonald a xxxx about what had transpired in the theater. Oh, but it was done in the nicest beureacratese and legalese.
"I could not account for any statements made or not made by Officer McDonald."
This is from Barrett's summary of his testimony before the Senate Select Committee in December of 1975.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9914#relPageId=21&tab=page
page 21.
On a side note, I am shocked by the very idea, or even the suggestion that in the 1960's, the FBI would tap someone's telephone; let alone Marina Oswald's.
Barrett was asked if her phone was tapped after the assassination. Barrett refused to answer without approval and authority from the Bureau, because it would reveal a "sensitive technique."
"When your testimony is over, get your ass up here." After he got back to the office, Supervisor Cregar told Barrett it was OK to let the Committee know that Marina's phone had been tapped, but that he (Barrett) had not been involved.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9914#relPageId=25&tab=page
pages 25 and 28.
I don't believe those transcripts will ever see the light of day.
Look at the last paragraph on page 28. I've never heard of this technique of recording testimony. It's a new one on me.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9914#relPageId=28&tab=page
Steve Thomas
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On 2/21/2017 at 11:24 AM, Paul Brancato said:
I wonder if you know who was the head of Army Intelligence in 1963, and whether that individual had ties to General Lemnitzer.
Paul,
Read the conclusions on pp 95-97 here: and p. 42 about General Blakefield. In addition to the Compendium, see the references to the "Biographic Data File"
https://bkofsecrets.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/armyciviliansurveillance.pdf
Steve Thomas
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On 2/17/2017 at 10:02 AM, Steve Thomas said:
There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:
https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK
I think this is in the Weisberg collection.
If you can't pull it up, let me know.
Before I leave this, I'm sort of thunderstruck by the possibility that the police were looking for the wrong guy - or least a different guy!
1) Note the reference in the cable to Harvey Lee Oswald
2) Earlene Roberts told the WC that when the police came to 1026 N. Beckley, they were trying to find a guy named Harvey Lee Oswald
3) The list of TSBD employees prepared for Gannaway by Westphal and Parks thru Revill on Friday afternoon listed Harvey Lee Oswald at 305 Elsbeth
3) In the cable referenced above, Harvey Lee Oswald was described as 5'10" tall, 165 lbs, with blue eyes
4) The initial description broadcast over the DPD radio was for a suspect 5"10" tall weighing 165 lbs and nobody knows where that description came from
5) I once posed the question, "How did the police first learn of the 1026 N. Beckley address?". Fritz told the WC that some officer (whose name he couldn't remember) stopped him out in the hall before he went in to talk to LHO for the first time, and told him that Oswald lived on Beckley. My conclusion then, was the information came from source in military intelligence.
Others have come to the same conclusion.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=8636.0;wap2
I don't know what this all means. What I am thinking right now is that members of the U.S. Army Reserves (in some capacity, whether it was Crichton's mythical 488th or not) had put together a dossier of a blue-eyed, 5'10" 165 lb Harvey Lee Oswald that they handed over to the Dallas Police Department, They told the police, "This is the guy you're looking for. He lives over on Beckley"
Steve Thomas
112th IINTELLIGENCE CORPS GROUP
SPOT REPORT (REGION II)
Date Sent: 22 Nov 63
Time Sent: 17:30 hrs
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INTC, Region II, Dallas, Texas
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Spot Report No. 417
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Subject: Lee Harvey Oswald
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Reference to Previous Reports: Spot Report No. 415
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Time, Date, and Place: 17:15 hrs., 22 Nov, 1963, Dallas
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Personnel, Organization, or Installation Involved: SUBJECT and Dallas Police
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Summary:
Assistant Chief, Don Stringfellow, Intelligence Section, Dallas Police Dept., notified Region II that Oswald had confessed to the shooting of President Kennedy and Police Officer Tippitt. The only additional information they obtained from Oswald at this time is that he defected to Cuba in 1959, and that he is a card carrying member of the Communist Party.
Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Dept. requested Region II assist them in obtaining a Russian linguist. (Chief Lumpkin did not say that SUBJECT'S wife was in custody of police, but it is known that SUBJECT is married to a Russian girl). Through Reserve Officer contacts of Region II, a Russian linguist was obtained. The linguist is _________, an employee of an oil company in Dallas. It is not known if _________ is presently at Dallas Police Station.
No record files Hq 112th INTC Group of Mamantov.
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Source of Information: Stringfellow
12. Time and Date Information Received by Reporting Agency: 17:05 hrs, 22 Nov 63
Spot Report No. 419 on this pdf file cited above was
Sent by: Lt. Green
Received by:Maj. Gippo
a) According to information sent by Stringfellow, at 17:05 hrs, Oswald confessed to these shootings.
Lumpkin reached out to INTC for help in obtaining a Russian translator.
c) Mamontov was obtained through Reserved Officer contacts of INTC personnel in Dallas.
d) Has anyone ever seen Spot Report No. 415 ?
Steve Thomas
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7 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
Paul,
Peter Dale Scott,... now believes, according to his recent work Dallas - '63, that the Continuity of Government bunker, manned by Crichton and the 488th, served as a private communications network for the Dallas detectives in the presidential motorcade,
A fruitful area of research, I think, and others have suggested; would be any and all communications to and from the Dallas Civil Defense Center and/or the police communications center at the Dallas Fair Grounds the day of, and the immediate aftermath of, November 22, 1963.
Dallas Morning News March 19, 1978. This is also from Weisberg's Collection
"Army Apparently Didn't Tell Commission of Oswald's Alias"
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf
Officer Bill Biggio was directing police intelligence communications at the Fair Grounds office the day of the assassination.
He was working alongside Stringfellow that day.
Col. Roy Pate, in command of the 112th in Dallas said the information in the cable quoting Stringfellow "did not originate in Dallas".
There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:
https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK
This is in the Weisberg collection.While Stringfellow's information is wrong in several places, it leads me to wonder what else was being communicated, and to whom.
Steve Thomas -
On 2/17/2017 at 10:02 AM, Steve Thomas said:
There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:
https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK
I think this is in the Weisberg collection.
Dallas Morning News March 19, 1978. This si also from Weisberg's Collection
"Army Apparently Didn't Tell Commission of Oswald's Alias"
Officer Bill Biggio was directing police intelligence communications at the Fair Grounds office the day of the assassination.
He was working alongside Stringfellow that day.
Col. Roy Pate, in command of the 112th in Dallas said the information in the cable quoting Stringfellow "did not originate in Dallas".
Interesting.
Steve Thomas
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3 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:
Seems it was up for renewal and was updated on the 19th feb - http://whoisweb.info/jfkassassination.net.html
I can't access it from my computer, so not sure if the addy has been changed. (Can't be my cache as I couldn't access it on a different computer either). What is the new address?
Alistair,
It looks like it's now:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
Steve Thomas
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36 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:
Thanks anyway. I don't know how, but the url somehow got changed in two of my different browsers
I got it back.
Steve Thomas
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Has something happened to this website?
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wit.htm
I've been using for years as a word processing friendly site (copy and paste) for witness testimony.
Now I can't seem to be able to get to it. Is anybody else having a problem?
I'd sure hate losing it.
Steve Thomas
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I'm just asking because I don't know.
Harry Dean says that he knew Loran Hall and Larry Howard.
Do they say that they knew him?
Steve Thomas
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17 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
I did not know until you (Chuck) posted it, that Cichton's 488th reported directly to Army Intelligence. I wonder if you know who was the head of Army Intelligence in 1963, and whether that individual had ties to General Lemnitzer.
Paul,
It seems to me that one has two possible avenues to approach: either the Defense Intelligence Agency, or the U.S. Army.
In their book, Brandy, Our Man in Acapulco: The Life and Times of Colonel Frank M. Brandstetter. A Biography by Rodney P. Carlisle and Dominic J. Monetta. University of North Texas Press, 1999.
https://books.google.com/books?id=QLdqgDsVio4C&pg=PA122&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
Carlisle and Monetta wrote:
“Meanwhile, he kept in touch with Colonel William Rose at the Pentagon office of the Assistant Chief of Staff-Intelligence.
p. 129. (Sometime after 1958) “In particular, he met Lt. Colonel William B. Rose, chief of the Army Intelligence Reserve Branch of the Office of the Assistance Chief of Staff, Intelligence (ACSI) at the Pentagon.”
In his 1991 study of Military Intelligence Detachments, Colonel Thomas R. Cagley wrote that they were under the oversight of either the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) or the Army Intelligence Agency (AIA) but under the operational control of their parent headquarters. The 488th was under the oversight of the DIA See page 14.
Reforming Military Intelligence Reserve Components: 1995 – 2005
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a233391.pdf
At least that was the case in the 1980's. Crichton supposedly formed his “spy unit” in 1956, and I read that the DIA was established in 1961. In his study, Cagley wrote that these MID's were loosely formed in the 1950's and were more formally structured in 1960's.
One questions is, was Crichton reporting the results of his spying efforts to anybody, or was he just compiling his own “Central Index”?
Frank Brandstetter wrote an autobiography called, Brandy: Portrait of an Intelligence Officer, by Chuck Render and Frank M. Brandstetter. Copyright 2007. I haven't read that book, so I don't know what he has to say about who he was reporting to.
From “Our Man in Acapulco”, pp. 127+ “after leaving Jamaica in early 1957, Brandy served as assistant troop commander and provost marshal of the Fourth U.S. Army Area Intelligence School for two weeks in August, 1957.
“These intelligence school sessions reviewed procedures and studies in a wide variety of areas for reserve intelligence officers including a review of a Central Index of Investigative and Domestic Subversive files.”
How widely was this “Central Index” shared? Did Crichton contribute to it?
Chuck referred to the Presidential Board of Consultants on Foreign Intelligence Activities and the Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and mentioned two people:
Lieutenant General Joseph F. Carroll Director, Defense Intelligence Agency, Department of Defense
Major General Alva R. Fitch Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Department of the Army
I don't know if information on foreign intelligence activities would also include a flow of information on domestic subversives.
In his HSCA testimony, Robert Jones said that the flow of information from the 112th INTC would go up the chain of command through his Group Commander to the Security Division of Fourth Army, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/unpub_testimony/Jones_4-20-78/html/jones_0009a.htm pp. 8-9
which, to me, implies an Army chain of command. Whether Active Army data, or data from the Reserve intelligence efforts, it looks like information got funneled through the Assistant Chief of Staff, Intelligence at the Pentagon.
The real MID's were more strategic rather than tactical in nature. They dealt with things on a global scale, which would fit Crichton's background in oil exploration and oil reserves around the world. Cagley wrote that the MID's were pretty much autonomous and didn't really report much to the Commanding Officers of their parent organizations, because those officers "were not on a need to know basis." I'll have to read up more about the DIA to see just how they fit into things, and why some of the MID's would be reporting to it instead of the Army Intelligence Agency at the Pentagon.
Steve Thomas
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10 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
I've been reading about the Cloverleaf Exercises. The first one was in 1957 and was designated Cloverleaf I. These were Command Post Exercises, rather than field training. It looks like they had a Civil Defense component, as well as just regular command training.
Steve Thomas
I misspoke. Cloverleaf I was in 1954.
It appears the years 1955 and 1956 were skipped and Cloverleaf II was in 1957. Looks like 1958 was skipped too.
The Lawton Constitution from Lawton, Oklahoma
August 8, 1957
Page 18
Exercise Cloverleaf II. a command post problem simulating the defense of West Germany and western Europe against an aggressor from the east, will begin Oct. 19 at Fort Sill with more than 900 officers and 650 enlisted men from throughout the Fourth U.S. Army area participating. A continuation of Exercise Cloverleaf I which was held at Fort Hood in 1954, the two-day problem will stress tactical employment of and defense against atomic, chemical and biological warfare weapons. The locale over which the map exercise is conducted will center around the Rhine corridor and Rhino River in Germany."
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:
you will recall there was a specialty counter insurgency exercise across the southern states a couple of years ago which prompted a lot of concern.
Larry,
Military exercise Jade Helm 15. I was just reading about that the other day.
Those Texas gentlemen take their states rights very seriously.
Steve Thomas
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15 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
I don't know specifically why Texas got an intel unit but my impression is that the Texas units were built largely around staff specialties and G2 is one of those. That would have been staff level work plus field intelligence. Those are the sorts of staff you want on hand if you do a call up and start building large units from scratch. Finding combat folks is easy when you are rebuilding, but finding intelligence, logistics, artillery, special forces is something else again so you want to have a pool handy.
Larry,
I've been reading about the Cloverleaf Exercises. The first one was in 1957 and was designated Cloverleaf I. These were Command Post Exercises, rather than field training. It looks like they had a Civil Defense component, as well as just regular command training.
The Bellaire Texan (Bellaire, Tex.), Vol. 8, No. 4, Ed. 1 Wednesday, March 22, 1961
Page 9
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth521788/m1/9/
“Citizen-Soldiers Wind Up Two Week Training Session”
“Commanded by Major General George P. Munson, Jr. the 75th MAC (Maneuver Area Command) acted as controllers of Cloverleaf V, a giant Command Post Exercise, best described as a “large scale paper war.” “The 75th's mission is solely to plan and control Command Post Exercise such as Cloverleaf V, and it is one of only two such units in the entire Army. The other units is a Fort Bragg, N.C.”
An Introduction to the history of the 49th (Lone Star) Armored Division (1947 -1963)
Brian Schenk
http://texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org//49ad/49division.htm
“Command Post Exercises (CPX) called "Cloverleaf" became a part of the command staff's training beginning in 1957. Conducted by Headquarters, 4th U. S. Army, the Cloverleaf exercises were based at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio, Texas.”
For anyone interested, read the article in the Irving Daily News.
The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas
May 10, 1966
Page 3
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48695616/
"Exercise Cloverleaf — was field under tight security precautions to train more than 1,000 staff officers and key enlisted men of the National Guard and Army Reserve from a five - state area. The three - day "paper- war" problem, conducted over two weekend periods, provided a realistic command post exercise for both of Texas* National Guard divisions, with the theoretical tactical problems giving commanders and their staffs training in mobile, dispersed operations under conditions of extensive nuclear warfare."
"It is more of a war of the mind, than of the muscle," the division commander continued. This differs from summer camp training, General Orrick pointed out, where all members of the division are actually engaged in "on the ground" training for their specific job. In Cloverleaf, the emphasis is to sharpen staff coordination and tactical procedures not required during actual training exercises.
Looks like Texas was pretty specialized.
Steve Thomas
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To Chuck Schwartz and Larry Hancock,
I will curse you until the day I die.
This is going to take a lifetime of study and research.
Larry, to just quickly comment on what you said about the Fairgrounds and DPD intelligence units, yeah, Ian Griggs steered me onto that a bunch of years ago. The DPD Special Service Bureau office was located there. The names of Special Service Bureau personnel factor greatly in the JFK assassination investigation. (Just as an aside: When Westphal went to write up his report of TSBD employees, he went to the Fairgrounds office to do it, and then had to run it down to Curry at City Hall).
Chuck, your reference to the Military Order of World Wars is very intriguing to say the least, but it has led me to one thing I think.
I think I understand the confusing references to George Whitmeyer. In various places, he was referred to as:
"Mr. Lawson acknowledged
that Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer, who was part of the Dallas District U.S. Army
Command,1/31/78 HSCA interview of Secret Service agent Winston Lawson (RIF#18010074-10396)
In their combined Batchelor, Lumpkin, Stevenson after-action report, Whitmeyer was referred to as,“ Lt. Colonel George Whitmeyer, U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.”
Dallas Morning News 11-16-1965
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Lt. Col. George L. Whitmeyer, deputy East Texas sector commander...
On April 22, 1964 Police Chief, Jesse Curry told the Warren Commission, “I had Deputy Chief Lumpkin, and a Colonel Wiedemeyer who is the East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve in the area...These identifications didn't make any sense to me until I read the entry for
Lieutenant Commander Roy C. Anderson on page 49.
"Key West Chapter Commander"
"Department of Florida Commander"
"Region VI Commander"
https://books.google.com/books?id=ibtADE8gMeoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=Crichton+"Military+Order+of+World+Wars"&source=bl&ots=UsV45IHPh-&sig=pJBNm3klVtGA0fLuSeHMLi0Redk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_9LPJvp7SAhWLy4MKHfQLB7sQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=Crichton%20%22Military%20Order%20of%20World%20Wars%22&f=false
(Jack Crichton has an entry on page 87 of that same book.)
I wonder if Whitmeyer's various identifications didn't refer to the "Reserves" as such, but to this "Military Order of World Wars"
As an interesting little aside, read the entry for
Col. Adrian L. Hoebeke on MOWW on page 51.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ibtADE8gMeoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=Crichton+"Military+Order+of+World+Wars"&source=bl&ots=UsV45IHPh-&sig=pJBNm3klVtGA0fLuSeHMLi0Redk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_9LPJvp7SAhWLy4MKHfQLB7sQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=Crichton%20%22Military%20Order%20of%20World%20Wars%22&f=false
After retiring in 1963, he worked for the City of Dallas for 10 years.
Was Treasurer of the Dallas Chapter. He was also the Dallas Chapter Commander.
I wonder what Whitmeyer's relationship to Hoebeke was.
As far as the connections to Civil Defense, “While at the Presidio, Brandy (Frank Brandstetter) had prepared a draft of a Domestic Emergency Plan, which he revised and submitted in 1954 as part of the Cloverleaf I exercise, to G-2 of the Fourth Army Command in Dallas, Colonel M.H. Truly.”
Our Man in Acapulco, p. 121.
(Cloverleaf I was in 1957)
See also the last paragraph in the Military Order of World Wars entry for
Lt. General Herbert R. Temple on page 60.
He was involved in the same thing in California.
Larry, I think I read (maybe from something Peter Dale Scott wrote? that Dallas was one of about six national civil defense sites)
Larry, you wrote, " No offense meant in the post, as I said, both Larry H and I went down this military road years ago because we were curious about not only these Colonels but a lot of other anecdotal stories about particular military connections of the time. You are just slogging through the same things we already butted our heads against. Maybe you will get further, I can only share the sorts of things we found and talked about back then."
I doubt I will, but I'll keep reading and learning from people like you and Larry Haapanen and Chuck and Peter Dale Scott. There is something there, I think.
I keep going back to "means, motive and opportunity", and thinking about the "means". It seems like you would have to have somebody who knew the local terrain: the Apache scouts who knew the layout of buildings, the escape routes and knowledge of the streets in and out of the city, which "tribal elders" to trust, etc.
Did these "colonels" serve that role?
Steve Thomas
Surprise Attack. Great. Now I've got something else to read. I'll curse you till the day I die.
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1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:
Per Bill Kelly, "
Researcher Larry Haapanen has discovered the 488th seems to have had its own direct chain of command linking it to Washington. In an esoteric publication entitled The Military Order of World Wars (Turner Publishing Company, 1997, p. 120), he found that Crichton "commanded the 488th MID (Strategic), reporting directly to the Army Chief of Intelligence and the Defense Intelligence Agency." 56. And in 1970 Haapanen was told by Crichton’s commander in the Texas Army Reserve, Lt. Col. Whitmeyer, that Crichton's unit did its summer training at the Pentagon.
Chuck,
See: page 14.
Reforming Military Intelligence Reserve Components
1995 - 2005
by Colonel Thomas R. Cagley
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a233391.pdf
Now Cagley wrote his study in 1991, so I'm not sure when the 488th came into being. Crichton's write up in the Spartacus web page says he stated it in 1956. In his study, Cagley says the MID's became more formalized in the 1960's.
I haven't found yet which MID's were in which ARCOM -so I'm not sure which one the 488th was in.
Table V-I on page 48 tells you how many MID's were in each ARCOM, but not which ones. I suspect either the 4th or 5th CONUSA because I'm pretty sure they covered the central United States, but that's just a guess on my part.
Steve Thomas
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6 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:
Now of course both Larry and I were in the military, in the Air Force, and he was actually an officer (I was just an NCO) so we might not be all that trustworthy....
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
Steve Thomas (gnashing his teeth)
My father and brother were both in the Navy.
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4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
Steve - I get your point. What the hell is the 488th? Apparently started by Crichton. It doesn't fit in to the military reserve system. Do you think that because of that it is a disinformation campaign? What strikes me most odd is that we don't know, 54 years later. All the fine researchers have clearly run into an impasse, like the one you have. I keep waiting for DiEugenio or Hancock to weigh in. There is no way I would dismiss the little we do know. It's the tip of some iceberg.
Paul,
I figure it was Crichton's braggadocio "the annoying or exaggerated talk of someone who is trying to sound very proud or brave".
If it the 488th was some kind of "spy unit", it didn't "fit into the military reserve system" as you put it, which makes me ask, who were they spying on and what were they doing with the information they gathered? If he did take on the mantle of an official military organization, did he do so with the approval of the officials in the Reserves who he reported to?
I wish I had kept the reference, but I read one time that the people in Crichton's political circle believed that Barry Goldwater was too liberal. That's why I think Crichton's book would be interesting book to read - get a sense of where this guy was coming from.
Steve Thomas
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See his Legion of Merit award entry page 87. He served with the 487th Bomber Group in WWII:
Crichton Legion of Merit Award
See: https://books.google.com/books?id=ibtADE8gMeoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=%22Legion+of+Merit%22+Crichton&source=bl&ots=UsV17DJRk7&sig=sw-DLTVYZL9P6SKEfsWpeLEhvEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJruvqzcvRAhXKw1QKHbOTD2IQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=%22Legion%20of%20Merit%22%20Crichton&f=false
page 87
The Military Order of the World Wars.
Jack Crichton also authored a book on 1964 Texas politics. That would be very interesting to read, I think.
The Republican-Democrat political campaigns in Texas in 1964
Author: Jack Crichton Publisher: [Texas] : J. Crichton, 2003. Edition/Format: 
Print book : English
Database: WorldCat Steve Thomas
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7 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
That is too interesting to not link
http://spartacus-educational.com/MDcrichton.htm
Two characters that I expected to see in there, but did not, are I. B. Hale and Fred Korth.
Here is the Forum thread.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/6568-jack-alston-crichton/&page=1
Jack Crichton also authored a book on 1964 Texas politics. That would be very interesting to read, I think.
The Republican-Democrat political campaigns in Texas in 1964
Author: Jack Crichton Publisher: [Texas] : J. Crichton, 2003. Edition/Format: Print book : English
Database: WorldCat Steve Thomas
-
1 minute ago, Paul Brancato said:
Steve - have you read the Spartacus entry on Jack Crichton?
Paul,
Yes, I have. Why do you ask?
I'll ask this. People mention that Crichton and Lumpkin and Whitmeyer, etc. all say that they were members of the "Reserves". I want to know the "Reserves" of what?
To what division, or army did they belong?
I've learned that the Reserves in Texas had three major units: the 36th Division, the 49th and the 90th Infantry. Did the people I mention belong to any of those?
The reason I ask, is that I spoke to a retired colonel in the reserves, and he told me that Whitmeyer's identification of "east Texas sector commander", or U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander didn't mean anything to him. Now, he belonged to the Active Army Reserves, so maybe Whitmeyer and Crichton and Lumpkin were buried somewhere in the Texas National Guard, or the Texas State Guard, I don't know, but I'd like to find out.
He also scoffed, when I told him that Crichton was supposed to be heading a Military Intelligence Detachment of about 100 men. He explained that Military Intelligence Detachments were about the size of a rifle squad. 90% of the MID's in the United States had 9 men in them. He said that this sounds more like a social club than an MID. If Crichton was gathering intelligence, who was he reporting that intelligence to?
Steve Thomas
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3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:
Steve,
Are you sure Thomas Kelley wrote that. I can't find it in his report.
(BTW, Harry Holmes DID write that.)
Sandy,
Whoops. You're right. Sorry about that.
Steve Thomas
Lumpkin reached out to INTC for help in obtaining a Russian translator.
Creating the Oswald Legend
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
I've read that Oswald was recruited into intelligence work while he was over in Japan.
My thought was, if he did get into intelligence, it started right off the bat, which would fit right in to what you just said, and he was in a holding pattern while they did a background security check, and he was brushing up on his language skills.
Steve Thomas