Jamey Flanagan

I wouldn't think RFK would be cool with or onboard with his brother being tossed into the cargo area like a piece of luggage. What do y'all think about DSL saying that the limo stopped and a different SS agent drove from there (I think it was on the overpass) on to the hospital? Has anyone else ever heard anything like this even being suggested? I know a few years back, in an appearance on Night Fright if I remember correctly, DSL said there were witnesses to the limo stopping again because Jackie was trying to climb out like she did on Elm. Or at least many thought she was trying to escape.

Thank you @Vince Palamara for posting that! I went to the channel and had been watching those videos one by one but they're all out of order and it'll just be easier to watch all in one video! Apparently DSL had come around to certain conclusions in his later years that would have been in Final Charade. I am very open minded in this case but some would be a little hard to swallow unless you have all the info to back it up, like would have been included in the book. Hopefully we still get the book. Apparently he came to believe that some of the doctors in Parkland were involved in the cover-up at least peripherally. He said he thought the body alteration was supposed to take place at Parkland with all bullets removed and everything. He said that was why the president (obviously D.O.A.) had all these life saving procedures done like the tracheotomy and the chest tubes (which he says weren't even put in all the way) and they were gonna act like they had to take him upstairs into surgery but Jackie wouldn't leave the room and he was obviously already dead so the S.S. took the body as plan B. I also heard him say that he thought Oswald was actually in the window with the gun firing blanks as part of a simulated assassination attempt. Personally, I don't believe that Oswald was anywhere near that window.

Just bumping this thread back up with the recent passing of David S. Lifton. I really hope the book does see the light of day in some shape or form! I just wanted to add a few things here. First of all, there was a post some months back to the effect of Morningstar and Lifton being wrong and it kind of lumped those two together and seemed to suggest they had pretty much the same theory. That's most definitely not the case! Lifton didn't subscribe to the aspect of a body double, but rather that the President's body had been altered. Morningstar believes that officer J.D. Tippit was used as a body double for JFK at Bethesda. Secondly, I remember stating a few times in different threads that it was Lifton's belief that the body was taken out the other side of Air Force One after landing and put on a helicopter bound for another facility, most probably Walter Reed. At least at the time of Best Evidence this was his leading theory. But watching the tribute videos that Vince Palamara has posted I see that he had changed his mind in later years about that. He came to believe that the body was taken on to Air Force One and before the entourage got on that the body was taken out of the coffin and transported out the other side and placed into one of the luggage compartments underneath in Dallas. And then I'm assuming that it was removed upon landing while the press was focused on the unloading of the coffin and everything. Just wanted to post this update.

Aside from the location of the wound, there is at least some dispute over whether this was actually from a gunshot. If I'm not mistaken, and I understand correctly, David Lifton still refers to this wound as a defect, not a gunshot wound. If I understand correctly, from interviews I've seen on YouTube and ones I've read over the years, he thinks this was a manufactured wound in the cover-up when the body was manipulated to try and show evidence of shots from behind instead of in front.

I did manage to go back and check through the archives but even though Simkin did many great long biographical posts for many of the players involved in this saga, sadly there was not one on Whitt. I'm curious as to if anyone on this forum knows any background or biographical info on Whitt or any connections he might have to other players. Any info would be greatly appreciated and would help further this thread!

If I recall correctly, the two umbrellas had a different number of spokes on them. It was obviously not the same umbrella from that day.

Can someone please do a search on here for Witt and find what Simkin had to say about it and post that on this thread or a link? I don't have a computer or anything and when I search on my phone it brings up a page but when I hit the next page button or whatever it says I have to wait ten or fifteen seconds before searching again even though I'm not searching again, I just wanna see the oldest posts. If anyone will do this I wanna say thanks in advance!

I've always thought that it was unlikely that this guy was even the same guy on Elm Street with an umbrella, but in the video Blakey was showing a pretty clear picture that I hadn't seen before and it did look like Witt to me. I guess it's within the realm of possibility that Witt was just someone they found who was a lookalike but I am finally starting to accept that Witt could actually be the Umbrella Man after all. What's your opinion on that @Vince Palamara? And of course him talking about the limo stopping makes me think that maybe he was there. But, even if it was him, that was most certainly NOT the umbrella he carried that day. And he ABSOLUTELY knew the "dark complected man" "the Cuban" or "the accomplice", ever what you want to call him. And they were 100% working together and knew the assassination was going to happen. No doubt in my mind! So, if Witt was the UM then we need to delve deeper into who Witt was and what connections he had. I'm pretty sure that Simkin would have done a long biographical post on him from the early days of the forum. If no one beats me to it, I'll search on here during the day if I get the chance and post it here.

Upon further review, I think that could be the head shot X you see just before the person walking.

I had to crop the hell out of this pic to come in under the file size it would let me send. Don't think any of the X's are visible due to the trees. P.S. Just realized you said from the X to the window.......so I guess this is the dislexic version, lol!

Actually when I was there I did have one guy come up and try to sell me some magazines but he didn't keep bothering me when I declined. Later on I stumbled upon some folks over in the pergola area near the picket fence at the grassy knoll and this one guy was giving them the run down on some assassination lore and I chimed in a time or two when the crowd asked him specific questions that he didn't quite know and I answered them. After that crowd left the area the hustler told me that I ruined his show. Thought that was kind of rude of him. I didn't just try to take over his presentation or anything and only chimed in a couple of times when he didn't exactly have the answers the crowd was looking for. Anyway, just thought you might get a kick out of that story, lol!

I wonder whatever happened to the jacket that Lee (or Harvey if you subscribe to that theory) wore to work on November 22? I think they found it like a week or two later and returned it to Marina. Just curious as to if she would have kept it or threw it away or what? You'd think something that important you'd hang on to. Who knows?

Just thought everyone might get a kick out of seeing this! My Step Son called me last night from South Carolina to let me know that he was watching Pawn Stars and saw this. So of course I had to look it up on YouTube, lol! Was hoping it would be the jacket of his that was found after his death in the TSBD.

YES! @Ron Bulman the movie Sybil was on one time on a UHF station that played pretty good movies sometimes when I was maybe eleven or twelve and that movie blew my mind! I'm not sure I was even aware of the ability of someone to have multiple personalities at that point in my life. What an introduction! 😂😂😂 And to hear of the kind of abuse that she sustained at the hands of her own mother......I probably had no clue at that age that there were monsters like that in our world! I really do believe that many of our movie stars and rock stars and other celebrities have undergone some conditioning (to use a kinder gentler word, lol).

These MK Ultra assassins aren't just people who are easily hypnotized. That might be just a small part of the equation. There's a certain way they do these things. These people are traumatized and broken down to the point where they create alters or other personalities because they cannot deal with the emotional and physical pain. They disassociate. It's almost like how a business might compartmentalize and delegate authority on down the chain of command. They can't handle the trauma so another personality takes that on.

@Vince Palamarahave you ever heard anything about comedian George Carlin being there at The Cellar that night and entertaining the SS agents with his JFK impression?

I was watching a video on YouTube from the channel America's Untold Stories and one of the two guys on there talking about the JFK assassination said that the night before the assassination, in The Cellar, where the Secret Service agents were partying well into the early morning hours of the 22nd, that there was a comedian in there doing impressions of JFK that had all the agents laughing like crazy. Then he said that it was George Carlin. Anyone know if this is true? I had never heard this story before. I Googled all kinds of related search terms but couldn't find any articles or web pages about that particular night. I did see that Carlin was at one time a performer at The Cellar and when I Googled George Carlin JFK the word impression popped up in search terms. Couldn't find anything linking Carlin to the SS agents party though. Has anyone else heard this story? You'd think that if it were true though that Carlin would've mentioned something about it at some point in his routine over the years. Unless he just wanted to hide it or distance himself from it.

Haven't read the book, but I own a copy of RFK Must Die! and I firmly believe that Sirhan was most definitely under hypnosis at the time of the shooting. I honestly don't think Sirhan fired a shot. I think his gun had blanks loaded into them. Like movie prop guns. Many witnesses say they say pieces of paper floating around all over the place, like confetti, and I've read that these blanks like Hollywood prop guns fire have confetti inside them. And then if you come to the conclusion that there had to be other assassins firing weapons in that pantry, and consider whether or not they would have wanted to be in the crossfire of a crazy man firing wild shots that could hit them too then it just doesn't make sense. I think Sirhan was just the distraction. Like magicians they used sleight of hand. The distraction in front capturing the attention of everyone while the real killers fire from behind. I've also heard many say that Oswald was under hypnosis at the time of the assassination but I don't know about that. Unless you subscribe to the Harvey & Lee theory and say Lee was under hypnosis. Harvey in that equation was too thoroughly set up for him to have even participated under hypnosis. No indication he had even fired a weapon that day! But, I have read in many different places that Dave Ferrie was a pretty good hypnotist, and whether Ferrie had anything to do with Oswald's killing or not, I do believe that Ruby was under hypnosis at the time he shot Oswald!

I do remember a documentary that came out around the time of the movie JFK. It was something along the lines of The JFK Assassination: The Jim Garrison Files or something like that anyway. They show a picture on there that purportedly shows Dave Ferrie and Clay Shaw together. It's most definitely Clay Shaw in the picture but I'm sure some will say that it wasn't Dave Ferrie in it but someone who looks similar to him. Not for me to say that it is Ferrie in the pic although I believe it most probably is. I wouldn't doubt that there is a picture of the three together although I don't recall ever seeing one. But if Shaw and Ferrie did know each other, and Ferrie and Oswald knew each other, and after all Oswald did get arrested handing out leaflets in front of Clay Shaw's International Trade Mart. That's all just circumstantial evidence of course but putting all the pieces like that together it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility that Shaw, Oswald, and Ferrie knew each other and were associates.

@Ron BulmanI agree with you 100%!!!! It's so funny how people with biased slants anyway approach evidence contrary to their beliefs completely differently than they do those pieces of evidence that support their views! And that can go for the CT'ers as well as the Lone Nutters, lol! It's funny though how the LN side can take some of these problematic at best witnesses that support the Oswald did it scenario but then pick apart witnesses to the contrary and call them fraudulent if one word differs in different interviews. Just be fair and the evidence will lead you to the answer! I've seen the same thing for the CT crowd too though. That's why I try to take an unbiased approach to both sets of data, at least as much as I possibly can anyway.

The episode where they deal with Darryl Wayne Gardner, or whatever his name is, is HILARIOUS!!! 😂😂😂

I do recall at some point in my life and in my long term interest in the assassination (my first real introduction to the assassination was seeing the end of the Kennedy miniseries starting Martin Sheen and I would probably say it was around 1988 and I would have been 10 years old) that I did see footage of a rifle being carried down from the rooftop and it was a different rifle from the MC rifle (different scope or sling placement or some kind of identifying features that the narrator pointed out) found on the sixth floor. I cannot recall what documentary or documentaries I may have seen this in but I know I have seen it. I know "officially" the story they went with to counteract any talk of another rifle being found anywhere other than the sixth floor was that during the search that an officer left his rifle wherever one was found at. But the footage I remember seeing did have them bringing it down showing special care to it as if it were the official weapon used by the assassin. That's not to say that possibly they assumed it was a rifle used by an assassin and took precautions as such only to find out later that it was a rifle left by an officer during the search. It does seem like the first documentary or whatever I recall seeing this in was an older one. Like something done in the late sixties or early seventies but one that presented things that didn't just fall in line with the Warren report. I remember this being the first time I had seen Buell Wesley Frazier talking about the so called package purportedly containing curtain rods and showing how Lee walked with the package tucked under his armpit and in the cup of his hand and that this wasn't long enough to contain the broken down MC rifle. But I'm pretty sure even if memory is correct (I think we watched this in class when I was in the fifth or sixth grade) that I saw this same footage in another documentary somewhere down the line as well. Sorry I can't help beyond only vague memories and have no proof and can easily be written off as misremembering an event. I almost want to say the documentary could have been called something along the lines of Four Days In Dallas maybe? Was there one with a similar name to that containing questions about the official story? Maybe it was Four Days In November. I wanna say something like that. And I very well could be mistaken about the footage even being in that program. I've been studying this case for over thirty years of my life and it's hard to remember sometimes just where I read or saw something. I just know that I read or saw it.

I could be mistaken, but I do believe it was Garrison himself that used that very same terminology in an interview in Playboy magazine. I do think the quote has been twisted by his detractors and used against him. If I recall correctly he said something along the lines of you could almost say the assassination was a homosexual thrill killing. Clay Shaw/Bertrand was homosexual. Ruby was reportedly a homosexual. Even in the planning stage or the coverup you have J. Edgar Hoover who was a homosexual. Dave Ferrie was a homosexual. Some have said that Oswald (whether it is THE Oswald who was shot by Ruby or an imposter) was bisexual. I've read more than a few accounts that have said Oswald and Ruby were lovers. I could go on and on but I'll stop there. Maybe Garrison could have and should have used better wording, but tell me what is wrong with describing the assassination as you could ALMOST call it a homosexual thrill killing? With so many homosexual and bisexual men involved in the plot and coverup and taken into that context I don't see any need to crucify Garrison even if he said that phrase. Hell, I've even heard several folks say that JFK himself was bisexual.

Just curious if anyone is privy to any updates on the Zapruder film analysis being done by the filmmakers in California that Doug Horne spoke of several years back? I know the whole Covid 19 shutdown threw a monkey wrench in many things so don't take this post as a passive aggressive attempt to point out that we haven't heard anything else about it in many years. I'm genuinely interested in the research and consider it valid research and firmly believe that the current state of the Z film is an altered or edited (at the very least) piece of film. Anyone who can give any updates would be greatly appreciated!

Interesting info @Pat Speer! I had never read or heard that Oswald's curtain rod at his apartment was damaged! I can't remember which book it was I remember reading at one time growing up, but it was one with a lone nutter slant to it and it showed a picture of inside Oswald's apartment and there were curtains hung already and it's like they were trying to say that Oswald already had curtains and they were hung on curtain rods therefore he was lying about needing some as an excuse to snuggle his rifle into the TSBD. Also, I believe it was in Frazier's book that came out fairly recently that he said at some point after the assassination an anonymous caller called his home and said that some curtain rods were found at the TSBD but made to disappear! This was recounted, I believe, in a book I do own which is pictured by @Vince Palamara in the original post (The Lone Star Speaks).