Jamey Flanagan

If I'm not mistaken, Roger Craig said they were inspecting the Mauser when the call about the Tippit shooting came over their radio. He looked at his watch and it was 1:06 pm.

I have a couple of questions for Vince........what is your current opinion on the dead secret service agent story (whether it actually happened or not) and if your opinion is that it did happen, do you think it has anything to do with the pool of blood that Coley saw at the top of the steps in front of the fence? If I remember correctly at least one witness said something about the agents in the follow-up car returning fire. Not talking about Jean Hill either who just assumed they shot one of the assassins upon seeing the pool of blood. Seems like a witness stated matter-of-factly that agents returned fire. This is where Hickey comes in. Just brainstorming here, but say an agent who was in on the plot shot JFK or had a missed shot from the spot of the pool of blood, Hickey saw that and shot him. Obviously he lived long enough to get away or be dragged away. Do you think these two events (dead SSA story and pool of blood) could be connected?

I don't know why the above has that link at the beginning. I tried to delete that but it's not showing up in my text box. I was responding to a Chris Davidson post.

Chris Davidson, I agree about the JBC wounds. At least the wrist and thigh wounds. It Just.seems to me to be a steeper angle than the 6th floor window. I could be wrong. I'm no ballistics expert. But just using the eye test it seems to need a steeper angle to me which.would mean a higher position for the shooter and you always hear the rooftop of the county records building as a possible shooting location so I have been thinking for.years that at least the wrist and thigh wounds could be from there. I don't really know enough about JBC's wounds to even have an opinion on whether his back wound was separate from the wrist and thigh wounds but I kinda lean toward it being a separate shot from those.

Yeah, those in European countries have known pretty much all along that it was basically a palace revolt. In America however our project mockingbird controlled press are still trying to keep those skeletons hidden in the closet and most of the reviews are gonna be hit pieces. They'll give the film backhanded compliments once in awhile and always try to lump the JFK conspiracy theorists in with holocaust deniers and other kooks. 30 years ago they attacked JFK for it's use of dramatic license and now they are attacking the doc for not giving us the answers but giving us irrefutable facts and letting us make up our own minds.

Thanks for the reply! That definitely makes sense! Looking forward to the stuff on the Tampa and Chicago plots! You can find some stuff online about those but even in the best documentaries they may get a sentence or two about them.

I also have a question for Jim D. Do they cover Zapruder film alteration at all in either the 2hr or 4hr? The Dino Brugioni stuff that came out in the ARRB? I know at the time JFK came out even most of the conspiracy crowd still took the extant Z film at face value though some had their suspicions. So alteration wasn't really explored in the movie JFK.

Everyone is forgetting Donald Sutherland. In all of the articles I've read it says it is narrated by Whoopi Goldberg AND Donald Sutherland. I had no problem with her narration in that short clip but for those who found it underwhelming then remember that she is sharing duties with Mr. X himself! Maybe Jim D can elaborate further whether is a 50/50 split or what on the 2 hour version versus the four.

I was answering a question that was asked directly to me. And just seeing this I haven't had the chance yet to check out the thread you posted. However,, I didn't say anyone else was arrested in the theater. I said that in police reports some said that LHO was arrested in a balcony seat and that witnesses saw a man being escorted out back. If no arrest record is found then obviously you can say that no one else was arrested. But no one doubted that 3 so called tramps were arrested even though no record could be found of their arrests until mysteriously, out of the blue, 30 years later after the movie JFK came out they found arrest records for 3 individuals.

Yeah, Lee was never "officially" taken into custody. Harvey gets to the Texas theater first and is actually in the theater while Lee is shooting Tippit. As theorized in the book of course. He's probably supposed to meet someone there. He sits beside several people. Lee comes in much later and goes to the balcony area while Harvey is in one of the floor seats. If I remember correctly at least one of the police reports (maybe more) stated that the suspect was arrested in the balcony. A couple of officers in on the plan actually escorted Lee out the back. This was witnessed by a local store owner who always thought he had witnessed the arrest of LHO only to find out many years later that LHO (Harvey) was brought out front by cops after his arrest inside. So, Lee is last seen being put into the back of a police car. Who knows what happens after this? But when the body of LHO was exhumed in the early eighties the head was not attached to the body. They used dental records to ID the body. Records of the real Lee while he was in the marines. So presumably he met his maker at some point between 1963 and 1981 (I think it was). The vault had been compromised when they dug it up. Apparently the head of Harvey was taken and replaced by the head of Lee at some point. Paul Groody, the mortician, said that this head that was examined upon exhumation did not have a craniatomy done on it which he had personally performed on the man shot by Jack Ruby. Sorry, I forgot, yes they knew each other if I remember correctly.

Paul Brancato, in the book Armstrong theorizes that Lee, the original Lee Harvey Oswald from birth, is a shooter on the 6th floor of the TSBD. He is wearing a white T shirt while Harvey on the 2nd floor lunchroom wears the long sleeve brownish shirt buttoned up about halfway with a white T underneath. He also subscribes to the theory that Lee is the shooter of Tippit.

I have a suggestion for those sweet jackets......Make them reversible. So you can wear either Harvey or Lee on the outside depending on what mood you are in that particular day, lol! 😂😂😂 I would proudly wear one of those! I have a question for the ones who ridicule the H&L supporters as they call us........how do you explain the fact that one Lee Harvey Oswald shot himself while in the marines but despite a pretty in depth autopsy that identified tiny moles on the body of the man shot by Ruby, there was no reporting of a gunshot wound or scar from this incident? The guy doing the otherwise thorough autopsy just decided this wound wasn't noteworthy enough to document? Please let me know if I have misstated anything. I do own a copy of Harvey And Lee which I have read but it has been awhile and it is a pretty massive book.

Yeah, Danny Arce is DEFINITELY a suspicious character indeed!

Haha, in a Google search for Dealey Plaza once there was a Lego model of it someone had built in the images that came up, lol! I've never been much of a fan of Legos though. But I do LOVE the Lego Movie! 😂😂😂

Maybe James DiEugenuo can get me some kinda discount, lol!

Just read this concerning Bill Shelley: On the day JFK was killed, William Shelley had a crew of six TSBD employees adding new plywood flooring on the sixth floor. They had been working on the project for the entire month of November, and the building owner was anxious to complete the project. He brought in two additional workers from the outside. Their names were Herminio Diaz Garcia and Emilio Santana. Almost nothing is known about these men beyond the fact that they were Cuban dissidents believed to be associates of Antonio Veciana, head of the radical Alpha 66 group dedicated to the overthrow of Fidel Castro. Several assassination theories have Herminio Diaz Garcia as one of the JFK shooters. We’ll never know because members of the Warren Commission never questioned the men. In fact, their names aren’t even mentioned in the entire Warren Report.

Every time I watch JFK, when it gets to the courtroom scene and shows that model of Dealey Plaza I tell my wife how much I wish I had that. Well, yesterday morning I thought I'd Google it just out of curiosity to maybe see what happened to the prop from the film. See if it sold at auction and how much it went for. So, I didn't see anything about that but found an image that led me to a website of a model company in Louisiana. Turns out they were the ones who created the model for the film. I emailed them and they finally responded back tonight. Said it would be like $5K plus probably for them to build another one. Said they got all the info on dimensions and such from people associated with the film and would have to get those back if the needed to build another. Just thought y'all would get a kick out of that! 😂😂😂 I told my wife "You know if they said $500 instead of $5K I'd have ponied up that without hesitation, right?" She shook her head in agreement, lol! A trip to Dealey Plaza has ALWAYS been my dream vacation and she knows it. I had tried to get my Dad to go with me for the 50th anniversary but he didn't want to. He drove a truck for many years and he lived in Houston for a few years. Her Dad passed away in December but they had to set up an estate and won't get the insurance settlement until September. But she keeps saying she's taking me probably sometime next year to fulfil my lifelong dream of visiting there. I have relatives who are now living in San Antonio and near Dallas that I can visit as well. Anyway, I just thought y'all would get a good laugh at my inquiry into that model. My wife always watches those lottery dream home shows and I just told her that if we won the lottery I'd have like a scaled down playground size model of Dealey Plaza in the backyard somewhere. Lol!

Just found this online: After the Warren Commission and the FBI analyzed Mr. Dougherty’s statements, they were very suspicious, so suspicious, in fact, that Melvin A. Eisenberg requested further questioning and a Warren Commission testimony. The memo pictured was sent to Lee Rankin explaining why Jack was considered suspicious. The arguments were as follows: He was the only one of the six employees working on the sixth floor-laying project without alibi. He had a very thin story. It didn’t make sense that Jack should have returned to work before the rest of his team. It is questionable that Mr. Dougherty would need to go to the fifth floor to get stock in connection with the floor-laying project. Employees Jarman, Norman, and Williams did not see Mr. Dougherty anywhere on the fifth floor during the shooting. It did not seem credible that Mr. Dougherty would have gone to the first floor, found out there were three shots fired, and returned to work as if nothing happened. No report shows any evidence of Jack or anyone else being on the sixth floor. Since Dougherty heard shots on the fifth floor, and since the shots were fired at approximately 12:32, Dougherty must have returned to the sixth floor, allegedly to go back to work, around 12:30. The alleged retardation may have been confused with emotional problems, and if so only furthers suspicion.

Found this on an older thread on a search: Precisely how and when did Jack Daugherty - hard at work, getting stock, supposedly - descend from the 5th floor to the first (and then asked either Charles Givens or Eddie Piper about the “loud noise”)? I have always wondered about Daugherty’s rapid descent - did he actually run down the stairs unseen or heard by anyone? Or, did he take the 5th floor west freight elevator down as Truly and Baker came up? Or, was Jack Daugherty actually Marion Baker’s first-day affidavit suspect, encountered on third or fourth floor, walking away from the stairs, and (correctly) vouched for as a TSBD employee by Truly to Baker? If so, then was this (possible/probable) encounter with Jack Daugherty that later that night morphed into Truly’s Oswald 2nd floor lunchroom story to the FBI? Or, did Daugherty accompany anyone down on the west freight elevator to the first floor, say from the 5th or . . .6th floor? My point is that any speculation about using the west freight elevator as an escape route for conspirators ought to consider Jack Daugherty’s mysterious descent at that very time.

Anybody else find Jack Daugherty's movements just before and just after the assassination worthy of at least intense scrutiny? I could be wrong, but if I recall correctly he was kinda nowhere to be found just before the shots. I believe he said he was on the 5th floor at the time of the assassination but the three amigos never saw or heard him up there. I know there are big stacks of boxes all around so he very well could have been on the same floor but not seen. But you'd think you'd hear something if somebody else was up there. The doors on both elevators were shut if what I read in Harvey And Lee is correct but they would not come down when called because the power being off to them. While Truly and Baker are running up the stairs one of those elevators go down from the 5th floor. But after Baker and Truly went to the roof and were working their way back down I think I remember reading that they spotted him on the 5th floor again filling orders. All this could be totally innocent but probably deserves some scrutiny. I just wonder if he has any intelligence connections.

I almost think that the TSBD was a front to some degree, kinda like the Reilly Coffee Company. Where they would hire people involved in intelligence operations and give them bogus jobs. Not saying every employee was involved in intelligence by any means just maybe a select few other than Oswald. Not sure exactly who but some of the management there like Shelley, Truly and the like seem kinda suspect sometimes.

I posted this a couple of years ago about something I ran across on the Mary Ferrell site concerning Charles Givens: This is from the Mary Ferrell website: A witness to Given’s statement was a secret service agent named Mike Howard. Howard related his account to Fort Worth Star Telegram reporter, Thayer Waldo, on 9 February 1964, apparently unaware that Waldo was a newsman. According to Waldo, "Mike Howard then explained that the negro witness had been arrested in the past by the Special Services office of the Dallas Police for gambling; and, since he was familiar with that branch of the Dallas Police, he immediately gave himself up to that branch. Mr. Howard alleged that he had visited the negro witness while he was in custody of the Special Services in the Dallas Jail." Waldo quotes Agent Howard as saying, "Wait till that old black boy gets up in front of the Warren Commission and tells his story. That will settle everything. Yes, sir. He was right there on the same floor, looking out the next window; and, after the first shot, he looked and saw Oswald, and then he ran. I saw him in the Dallas Police station. He was still the scaredest n***** I ever seen. I heard him tell the officer, "Man you don't know how fast fast is, because you didn't see me run that day." He said he ran and hid behind the boxes because he was afraid that Oswald would shoot him." (CE 2516

I'm interested in hearing whether anyone has ever heard any secondhand stories of what some of these employees may have told their close friends and family privately concerning the assassination. In particular the three amigos watching from the 5th floor. Is anyone aware of any interviews conducted with any close friends or family members of these three individuals since the assassination occurred? I'm interested in what they told people privately and confidentially. Because we all know their stories changed more than most people changed their underwear, lol! They were obviously coerced into telling the story that the people involved in the cover-up wanted out there, and it was an ever evolving, constantly changing narrative. Being people of color in the racial climate of the south in the 1960's I'm sure these men were frightened to death of repercussions to them and/or their families if they did not comply. I would've done the same thing in their shoes. But I'm pretty sure that privately they told someone what actually happened. A wife, a close friend, their minister.....somebody out there has heard a very different story than the "official" account I'm sure. As long as I've researched this case though I can't recall ever hearing an account of one of those individuals telling a different story to a family member. Anyone else ever hear one? You'd think with so many years gone by you'd hear something from a grandchild maybe.

So, if this is a correct ID of Linda Willis then Rosemary was further down Elm than she was. During Linda's WC testimony she said she was right across from the road sign and the questioner, Leibler I think it was, understood this as meaning the Stemmons Freeway sign. Well, obviously she's not across from that sign in the Z film (although many of us know this film has been altered) but there was another road sign a few feet before the Stemmons one that said R. L. Thornton Freeway or something like that if I'm not mistaken. She was directly across from that sign when the first shot hit which was at least a second or two prior to his reaction to the throat shot. This gives further support to my hypothesis that the first shot came from the TSBD window (or a TSBD window on the sixth floor), it pierced through the corner of the traffic light causing it to decelerate and it only penetrated an inch or so into the back of JFK. He screams "I'm hit!" And pretty much by the time he gets that out his throat is pierced by a frontal shot probably fired from the south knoll which passed through the windshield of the limo. Rosemary didn't hear this shot. A silencer may have been used. Greer, having felt that bullet whiz by him, panics and brakes slightly turning the wheel slightly to the left. I think a shot was then fired from the Dal-Tex building striking Connaly in the back. This was the second shot Rosemary heard. Then a shot from the high, steep angle of the rooftop of the County Records building is probably what got JC in the right thigh and if he was twisted just right by then it may have passed through his right wrist and then into his left thigh. Then Greer brakes significantly turning around to see what was going on in back, not a complete stop but what officers like to call a rolling stop (I've been pulled over knowing I had stopped at a stop sign but was told I hadn't stopped and I'm like I looked both ways before I accelerated and then told if I stopped at all it was a rolling stop, lol) and then we get a double shot to the head of JFK. Either they were fired too closely to separate or one used a silencer. The first from behind, the next from the front. This may also account for the folks who said they heard a shot after the head shot. By the time the sound of the first head shot hit their ears and they see it hit his head (if it was not silenced of course) they associate both head wounds to that one shot and then they hear the echo of the second AFTER they processed the reaction of said shot. I'm sure someone can poke holes in this scenario easily, but I'm just trying to fit as many of these puzzle pieces together as I can, lol!

Notice in that Rosemary Willis quote she described 4 shots. She didn't say where she thought the first originated from other than seeing the pigeons fly off of the TSBD roof. The second one she described sounds more like the Dal-Tex to me. The third she says was not as far back but still behind her and up higher. Could this be the roof of the county records building or whatever where many have speculated a shot came from? The last one she said was from the grassy knoll. That would be the (or one of the two) head shot(s). I think everyone in the conspiracy angle pretty much agree that the throat shot was of frontal entry. But her testimony only accounts for the one shot from the front, a head shot. I think it all has to do with perspective and positioning. And I do think some shots were fired simultaneously or almost simultaneously and people thought it was the same shot. Now if the first shot came from the TSBD, pierced the corner of the traffic light slowing it down slightly and goes into JFK's back causing the shallow wound he probably would slump as the shot hit his back. This would've been maybe a second or two before the throat shot as he disappears behind the sign. Human perception and reaction would probably account for if you hear a shot and the president starts slumping and within a second or two he's grabbing his throat you would probably relate these two events together as the same shot. Seems rational to me. Just trying to fit some of these puzzle pieces together. I'll havta check out Linda Willis' statements next.