Andrej Stancak

This is a good point, Francois. Time to ask Mr. Frazier once more about the person standing less than three feet from him. Mr. Frazier actually has been asked but somehow could not answer. So, why? If it would be some fellow employee, Mr. Frazier would say who Prayer Man was. He would not say who that man was only if it was Lee Oswald. Indirectly, Mr. Frazier confirms that Prayer Man was someone of identity so sensitive that he cannot say. I always wondered how could Mr. Frazier be so sure that Lee was innocent. Mr. Frazier says only nice things about Lee Oswald and believes in his innocence even if it was his testimony which pinned the guilt for Presidents killing onLee Oswald - the elongated paper bag and no bag with lunch. Well, Mr. Frazier could be so certain only if he knew dead well that Lee was not the shooter. For instance, if he saw Lee less than three feet apart from him just seconds after the last shot.

Ray: an excellent quotation from this rare book which I did not read and maybe many other researchers neither. So, the officer and Truly left Oswald on the first floor before continuing upstairs. This is another confirmation of the true course of events.

Francois: There is a difference between Hosty's and Fritz' notes. Hosty's notes are authentic, they were taken during the first interrogation on Friday, 22/11/63, 3.15PM. Hosty's notes are on the back of a DPD affidavit form which he said independently he used before his notes were discovered last week. Hosty's book closely follows the notes up to the point, and the point was that he went out to see the P. parade. You do not go to watch the parade several minutes after it had passed the building, the parade was still around. Oswald would not have any benefit from lying about the second-floor encounter should it ever happen - it would be silly to try to suppress it if both Truly and Baker would be able to confirm it. The point is that at 3.15PM, the cover-up was not that tight yet and the 2nd-floor encounter was not cooked properly. In contrast, Fritz's notes are not authentic. In the first place, he did not take any notes during the interrogation itself. He used the FBI agent Bookhout 's notes to jot down his notes at some point later, it may have been days or even weeks later, maybe just before his testimony for the Warren Commission. Those notes are already tainted and contain a reference to the second-floor encounter which is not even mentioned in Officer Baker's first testimony. Irrespective of going out to watch P. parade, the course of events described by Agent Hosty fits with the recent report of Mrs. Sarah Stanton's family, conveyed to Mr. Doyle last June. Mrs. Stanton said she has met Lee Oswald on stairs (most likely the stairs connecting the 1st and 2nd floor) while she was in the process of going out to watch the motorcade several minutes before the shooting. The motorcade was due 12.25PM, so it would be just minutes before 12.25PM. Lee said to Mrs. Stanton that he was only going to buy Coke for his lunch and that he would then proceed to his "room". Mrs. Stanton saw what Lee Oswald said during his first interrogation session and what James Hosty scribbled down. Lee had his Coke before the shooting and came from the first floor to the second floor to get it (as Hosty's notes say). What Mrs. Stanton could not see was that Lee then returned to the first floor - that was the "room" captured in Mrs. Stanton's statements.

Francois: May I answer with a question too: do you see in the authentic Hosty's notes from the very first interrogation any mention about the 2nd-floor lunchroom encounter between Oswald and Baker? The pressure on law enforcement to make Oswald the lone gunman was extreme. People such as Truly and Baker just complied.

Yes, this is right. Oswald did not shoot the President and he was not on the sixth floor during the shooting. The 2nd-floor encounter? Well, Oswald did not have any business on the 2nd floor beside buying Coke before the shooting. Mrs. Sarah Stanton saw him on the stairs leading to the 2nd floor when she was stepping down to get to the doorway to watch the motorcade. So, he already had his Coke, why would then he go again to the 2nd floor lunchroom after the shooting - to buy another Coke? So, no, there was no second-floor encounter with Truly and Baker. I thought this has been discredited years ago by Vicki Adams's story, researched by Barry Ernest.

Francois: It is worse than that. You know, James Hosty, the agent who had flushed an over-important note brought to the office by Lee Oswald, that guy took notes during the very first interrogation of Lee Oswald at DPD headquarters right there, on Friday, 3.15 PM. And Lee was, rightly so, asked where he was during the assassination time, and he said that he had a lunch in the 1st floor lunch room, then he went to buy Coke from a machine in the 2nd floor lunchroom (to flush down that lunch) and he came back to the first floor to finish his lunch. So there he was. And he heard the noises from outside as the motorcade was passing, so he went out to view the P. parade. This is what Lee told right away when he was asked where he was when shots rang out. And that guy, Hosty, he scribbled all this on a sheet he grabbed in Fritz's office. There was a pile of blank affidavits, so he took one and wrote what Lee had said on the back of the affidavit. You would not believe, however, after more than 55 years that sheet with Hosty's handwritten notes was discovered at NARA by who else than a conspiracy researcher Malcolm Blunt. So, we have a problem here because it is an authentic record of what has been said during the very first interrogation, you know before the things could have been adjusted a little. Hosty realised later that watching P. parade had been a problem, so he did not put this information about P. parade into his book. The only problem is that some conspiracy freaks just do not stop and this is the result. Nobody can now believe that the second-floor encounter actually happened and what is worse that Oswald was shooting at the President from the sixth floor.

David: 1. As per body height - please see my 3D reconstructions of the doorway and Prayer Man's figure. If you do not trust computer programs, please subtract 10 inches (the height of human head for a person 6') from Mr. Frazier's body height and you get the height of the top of Prayer Man's head above the top landing. Prayer Man stood with his right foot on the seconds step, so 5'2'' + 7'' = 5'9'' (Oswald's body height). 2. The shirt: Oswald had a light-red shirt on himself during the period of assassination, and changed it for a dark red-brown shirt at his North Beckley rooming house. If you convert the coloured version of this light-red shirt into greyscale, you get the grey we see in the black-and-white version of this shirt in WC exhibits, and on Prayer Man in Darnell. Of course, few light colours may give a similar grey tone, but it could not be a white shirt or yellow shirt or black shirt or dark green/blue/red. Oswald's pants he wore on Friday morning were grey and loose and match well Prayer Man's pants. 3. The same with hair colour: Prayer Man's colour would only match dark brown or black hair, not blond or grey (like Mrs. Stanton's hair). 4. The posture: well, the only way Prayer Man could stand in Darnell was with one foot on the top step, this foot being forward, and the left leg slightly bent in the knee joint. He would rest his body on his right foot which was stretched and slightly backwards. Lee can be seen standing this was in numerous photographs, even in the picture with David Ferrie as a Civil Patrol cadet. All points have been discussed in detail in various Prayer Man threads, no point bringing this on here.

Lee Oswald's statements as recorded by James Hosty fit well with what we see in film documents. Lee Oswald came into the doorway a bit late. Thus, he was on the first floor, which means inside the building, during the shooting. However, he was in the doorway just seconds after the final shot rang out and he, therefore, saw the tail of the motorcade. The Hosty's handwritten notes taken by him during the first interrogation session at 3.15 on Friday, November 22, clear any doubts about Oswald movements during the assassination. As per other employees not confirming Oswald's alibi: it is sufficient to see how Mr. Frazier responds to that question. He can still be asked by a grand jury to say who the person standing less than 3 feet away from him was. But no evasions or l.i.e.s, please: we know how tall Prayer Man was, what was the colour of his hair, his hairline, his posture, and his clothes. Also, what about Mrs. Sarah Stanton denying in her official statements seeing Oswald but then telling her family about talking to Oswald as he was coming to buy the Coke minutes before the assassination? And what about Judy McCully who was "advised" by the FBI to report that she was outside the building while she was on the 4th floor? James Hosty was fully aware of the significance of Lee's statement about going to watch the parade and this is the reason for omitting this information in his book. Should he write in his book that Oswald went out to see the parade, the next thing would be: well, then let us inspect the visual evidence from the period just following the shooting if we can find him there. And we can.

This is from James Hosty's book: "Assignment Oswald". Indeed, Hosty took one of the affidavit forms and wrote 3.15 to time stamp his original notes. The interrogation as described in Hosty's book matches very well his notes which he wrote during the interrogation on the back of an affidavit form. The point of divergence between the notes and the book is Lee's statement about watching the P. parade. Obviously, this was sanitised in the book.

This is a breakthrough finding. In spite of all the cover up and witness manipulation, eventually a proof of true course of actions has emerged. Lee was on the second floor before the assassination, however, he returned to the first floor to eat his lunch. The second floor encounter with Officer Marrion Baker could not and did not happen. Lee Oswald was Prayer Man - all the physical evidence point to his presence in the doorway as Prayer Man, and now this new evidence which was buried in archives for 55 years. It would be useful and correct to write a letter to the Sixth floor museum with the new evidence and a renewed request for releasing a high-resolution image of Darnell doorway - at least the sharpest frame.

The dark patch on the back of Kennedy's head in Z317 (in the link provided in the first post of this thread) appears as a sure manipulation. This shape is neatly delinated and much darker than a natural shadow. Can only concur with the authors who analysed this high-res image. Further, to cover up this black patch, the back and shoulder and part of the upper arm were also darkened to make the hair patch less conspicuous and more natural.

A very interesting hypothesis popped up recently attempting to explain Lee Oswald's whereabouts during the period he was supposed to be in Mexico City. The new book by Paul Smith: JFK and the Willard Hotel Plot: The Explosive New Theory of Oswald in D.C. , Lee Oswald took a bus for Houston but did not travel to Mexico City, his imposter(s) did. Lee Oswald stopped in Austin and Dallas (Silvia Odio) and reached Washington, D.C. on the 27th of September. According to this hypothesis, Lee stayed at the pricy Willard hotel and was readying for an assassination attempt on October 1. On that day, a motorcade took place with JFK and H. Selasie parading in an open limousine and taking a sharp turn around Willard hotel. There were allegedly two opportunities to shoot at a motorcade, one during the parade on the 14th Street and another on the south lawn of the White House which was visible from Willard hotel back then. Besides the August letters by Lee Oswald in which he signalled he would be moving to Baltimore/Washington, D.C. for a job in October, there is a Secret Service report (dated December 1963) stating that Lee Oswald was indeed seen by a driver of an official's limousine, by a SS agent (Hicks?) and a local police officers. All three men were convinced that the man they saw coming out from Willard hotel and causing disturbance there was Lee Harvey Oswald. The evidence is circumstantial, however, the author makes a good job in connecting the dots.

Here are the relevant statements speaking strongly in favor of a light-red button-down shirt being worn by Lee during the time of shooting: Cpt. Will Fritz's notes, dated 23rd November 1963: “Says 11-22-63 rode bus/got trans same out of pocket…Changed shirts + tr. Put in dirty clothes—long sleeve red sh + gray tr.” (retrieved from https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=7&tab=page) Cpt. Will Fritz's narrative "Interrogations of Lee Harvey Oswald": “During this conversation he told me he reached his home by cab and changed both his shirt and trousers before going to the show” (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29104#relPageId=6&tab=page). Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley (CD87 p375).: “He said he went home, changed his trousers and shirt, put his shirt in a drawer. This was a red shirt, and he put it in his dirty clothes. He described the shirt as having a button down collar and of reddish color. The trousers were grey colored.” ("First interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald", retrieved from http://www.prayer-man.com/secret-service/thomas-j-kelley/#lightbox[group]/0/ ). FBI agent James Bookhout: "stated that after arriving at his apartment he changed his shirt and trousers, because they were dirty. He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored, long sleeved shirt with a button-down collar and gray colored trousers" (Commission Document 5, page 100, retrieved from https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=103&tab=page). Special Agents Bardwell Odum and Gibbon McNeely interviewed Buell Wesley Frazier and recorded the following: "As Frazier recalls, Oswald was wearing a reddish shirt and a gray jacket, waist length." (WCH vol. 24, 408-410, retrieved from https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0213b.htm). Lee Oswald's shirt is an essential point in context of Prayer Man problem as the dark brown shirt CE150 would not be compatible with Prayer Man's clothing. In contrast, the light red shirt CE151 not only fits Prayer Man's shirt also burries any possibility of erroneously attributing Lee' shirt to Lovelady (Altgens6).

John: Lee Oswald did not wear the dark red-brown shirt CE150 in the morning and just after noon on that fateful Friday. He changed his shirt and slacks. In the morning, he wore a light red, button-down collar shirt CE151. That shirt if converted to into grey scale gives the grey appearance of Prayer Man's shirt in Darnell. The point is that the FBI pinned the wrong shirt to the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle by allegedly finding few fibres on the butt of the rifle which matched the darker CE150. The dark shirt could not be the source of the fibres found on the butt because Lee changed his shirts at his rooming house. The best analysis of the shirt problem. to the best of my knowledge, was provided by Pat Speer (patspeer.com, Chapter 4b) who also needs to be credited for obtaining from NARA the coloured picture of CE151 in 2016. The best proof of CE151 being worn by Lee in the morning are Lee's own statements reproduced by his interrogators and Buell Wesley Frazier's statement recorded by the FBI.

John: thanks for your detailed comments. Billy Lovelady had a balding spot on his head, however, it is not seen in my model in the views provided. The shirt is an evergreen problem. I think it is always the same shirt, a plaid one, reddish-brown, and with open buttons except maybe the lowest few buttons. The man emerging from the shadows in Hughes (the early part with motorcade in front of the building) and the one in Altgens are one and the same person. He might have buttoned his shirt later on, e.g. when he was brought to the police station. He also seemed to need a good shave. I did not assume a shirt with vertical strips - I only used the FBI picture to model Lovelady's head and hairline, not the shirt.

John: this should be Billy Lovelady. Not only because it would be unlikely for Oswald to be at this place at that point of time but also because of the man's hairline. I am pretty familiar with both Lee Oswald's and Billy Lovelady's hairline after spending days modelling their heads. Here is Billy Lovelady's head with its 3D model.

Bart: I wonder where does your bitter tone come from. I am surely not the one who just says that some person in Darnell or in any other picture is this or that. I am actually the one who tries to bring as much empirical support as possible to name the doorway occupants. I see you would not like to analyse Darnell's still to check if two men shielding their eyes and both wearing white shirts can be found in Darnell. Please find here Darnell still with rough contours of the two men. Their arms speak the most. The man delineated with red is Otis Williams, the one I already showed in Altgens two posts back. Mr. Williams changed arms earlier (already seen in Wiegman) as he used his right arm in Altgens6 and his left arm in Darnell. Mr. Williams also stepped up one step during the period separating Altgens6 and Wiegman. The other man delineated with blue lines is Joe Molina, the man shielding his eyes with both arms in Altgens6. I hope this helps.

Bart: why do you believe the FBI report such as this? Mr. Williams was "advised" by the FBI to say some nonsense to create a complete havoc in testimonies. The reason for creating this mess was to ensure that no reconstruction of Lee Oswald's movements was possible. "Immediately" is a vague term. It may have appeared immediately to Mr. Williams but it lasted a minute or two until he headed back to the building. The low credibility of witness testimonies and their vagueness is the reason for looking closely on the photographs such as Darnell. If you would analyse Darnell carefully, you would see a man standing close to the central railing and shielding his eyes with one arm (Mr. Williams) and another man also wearing a white shirt and also shielding his eyes and standing few feet to the east relative to Mr. Williams. This man was Joe Molina, the same man visoring with both arms in Altgens6. Mr. Molina wore a short-sleeve shirt, Mr. Williams had a long-sleeve shirt. Fifteen seconds after the last shot, the time when Darnell recorded the Depository, is a very short time. The cars very moving fast in direction to Tripple Underpass, people were screaming, running in different directions. Why would anyone want to leave the doorway right away. Maybe first ovecoming the shock and seeing what comes next. This is what the doorway occupants did during the first 15 seconds. While you may say that this is a speculation, the photographs do not lie. It requires time and effort to understand the assassination photographs and I do not assert that I understand every single bit. This is snapshot of my work aimed at proving the presence of Mrs. Stanton in Altgens6. As promised in this thread in January, I made this reconstruction but the final touches are missing. This particular image refers to the reconstruction of Mr. Shelley's figure, however, Mr. Williams and Mr. Molina are seen well in this reconstruction. Mr. Molina stands on the second step and Mr. Williams on the third step in Altgens6. A = Mr. Shelley. B. Zoomed view of Altgens6 composite. C. The 3D model of the doorway showing Carl Jones, Bill Shelley, Mrs. Reese, Mr. Williams and Mr. Molina. D = overlay of B and C proving the match betwen the model and Altgens6.

Miss Hine's testimony for the Warren Commission: Mr. BALL. Do you have any definite recollection of Mrs. Reid coming in? Miss HINE. No, sir; I only saw four or five people that came by and they all came and were all talking about how terrible it was. Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Who were they? Miss HINE. Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina (spelling), Miss Martha Reid, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell; that's all I recall, sir.

Bart: Sarah Stanton was 5'4''-5'6'' and this body height corresponded to a tall lady back in 1963. Mrs. Stanton's body height is known from the interview with her relatives and from the comparison of her figure with the figure of her son Larry. Larry was 6'-6'1'' and Mrs. Stanton reaches to the level of Larry's nose. The distance between the top of the head and nose in someone who is 6' is 7''. Thus the best approximation of Mrs. Stanton body height is 5'5'', falling into the middle of the 5'4''-5'6'' interval conferred by Mrs. Stanton's relatives. I wonder who was the man shielding his eyes with both arms in Altgens6, Wiegman and Weaver, and with his right arm in Darnell. This man never stood on the top landing in any of these documents and he was in the east side of the doorway. To understand the blurry pictures of this sort, one needs to follow the dynamics of a person's location and posture over the films and pictures. This man did not evaporate in Darnell, or did he?

I would like to contribute with funds to cover the EF running costs. Please let us know how can we do it.

If there was an en entry wound in the right temple and an exit wound in the right occipital region close to the midline, how can we see the massive outburst of tissue and blood upwards in a straight line in Z313? There should have been also a damage in the right central region of the head else all the material could only be expelled towards the back. If the wounds are only those two (right temple - right occipital close to midline), the Z313 could only show what it shows after if it had been altered.

Bart: I do not know how many of the ladies standing in front of the building were able to get to the steps of the doorway in some 15 seconds. A chance is that they stood there on the lower steps all right during the shooting but could not be captured in Altgens6 or Wiegman. Did you consider that the figure labelled "Sarah Stanton" in your image may actually be the man (Joe Molina in my view) who was shielding his eyes with both arms in Altgens6, Wiegman, and Weaver and possibly only with his right arm in Darnell? This person was clearly a step up about 14-15 frames before the frame you analysed. Prior to the frame with Mrs. Sanders, there are frames which are very blurred at that spot and the man may have stepped down one step (and this is the reason why Pauline Sanders can be seen in one of the last frames - this man's arm does not obstruct any longer the view of that particular at which Pauline Sanders is seen). I studied this part of the image for a long period of time, and what appears to be a person with burnt out face and light-coloured hair I interpret as a bent forearm of the man seen 14-15 frames (less than 1 second) ahead. Of course, I can be wrong.

Well, I fully agree that the FBI statements taken from the immediate witnesses to the President's killing were not truthfull. Besides Mrs. Stanton's relatives, we have now another confirmation by the daughter of Judith McCully. The real whereabouts of Lee Harvey Oswald were effectively blurred allowing for the second floor encounter of Lee Oswald and Officer Baker..

This is a good find, Bart. So, there was someone there very close to the east wall and standing on the 4th step who remains to be identfied. Did Judith's daughter conferred any other details, e.g. about Vicky Adams or Officer Baker?