Joe Bauer

A thought just occurred to me after months of reading the rather sharp jabbing and jousting back-and-forths between certain members here and one specific member more than others on certain threads and which at times gets quite personal and heated. It's sharp and often enough you notice it as a specific posting and response activity. I am not taking sides nor judging. The combatants are all articulate and informed. Much more than I. It's just noticeable. However, in the years since I have been first visiting the forum and eventually joining, it seems like there is always a resident lightning rod instigating member who not only admits to being purposely contrary and stirring things up, but enjoying it! Like a pattern? It's probably just my admittedly overly suspicious ( Jack Ruby impossibly shooting Oswald ) inspired imagination. Yet, when I first checked in there were one or two main antagonistic minded posters. Wasn't McAdams posting here? Over the last 8 years, one after another. Eventually the main contrary posting instigator of the month or year would drop out, and soon enough, another would pop up out of nowhere to fill the void. I remember a poster from Arizona ( I think ) a couple of years back who was strikingly similar in this MO. He too was articulate and informed. He too seemed to relish "shaking things up." He too just disappeared after a year or so. Include several others in between. Excuse my paranoia but could it be that this repeating instigator of the month or year club constant is more than just a coincidence? Could it be that these similarly aggressive and minded posting contrarians popping up here on an almost patterned time frame ( when one leaves another soon replaces ) be more than just a random occurrence? Anyone here ever give even some slight thought that this forum is monitored in any way? By others who still feel threatened by it's content and the participation of highly credentialed and influential members, several of whom have written and had major government questioning conspiracy books published and have been featured on national airwaves media venues? On the other hand, having some participation and input from Warren Commission defenders, Posner, Bugliosi, McAdams and other LN defenders from time to time does give the forum some righteous fighting back energy I suppose.

I can buy the older Doyle matching the younger man in the Dealey Plaza perp walk photo. But the other two? No. Did Doyle do anything interesting during his army service? He sounded quite inarticulate in his later age interview. I will however, give Doyle his due in his 1963 fashion sense. The man was dressed so stylishly with his knit shirt with upturned collar and nice coat ( both color coordinated ) and perfectly fitting men's jeans. A cool men's fashion look ahead of it's time. He sure doesn't look like a hobo in that perp walk picture. On the contrary, Gus Abrams looks like he's wearing Salvation Army throwaways. Like he mistook the Salvation Army garbage can for their regular clothes bin. Gedney's clothes look like they "could have" come from the Salivation Army bin. Not too poorly matched and they do fit him and his tall frame. These guys all supposedly "cleaned up" at the homeless mission the night before or the morning of the assassination, including showering? Nice help provided there. I guess those places back then even provided grooming items such as razors and toothbrushes? These men didn't look like they carried toiletry accessory bags. And where do rail riding hobos get their haircuts? Frenchy's is darn right sharp. The other's not bad with clean sideburns trim lines. I suppose if the three tramps were really just wrong place/wrong time innocents, the only seriously suspect aspect of their pictures in Dealey Plaza that day is the one that many think shows General Ed Lansdale walking right by them in front of the Texas School Book Depository bldg.

If this actually happened and Zapruder captured this, would the Zapruder film by law have to be re-classified as "R" or even "X" rated?

Susan Collins. On the real important issues, she's no moderate. Reminds me of Clarence Thomas. Even on our month to month budget we have resolved to send $25 to the campaign of Collin's opponent this year.

This thread from years ago highlights well the contradictions in testimony that in total almost forces one to consider the tramps with more interest than not imo. And the pictures of the supposed tramps ( Gedny, Doyle, Abrams ) from years later are just as debatable and suspect.

Thanks.

Lots of unsures there in matching "Frenchy" with Harold Doyle.

Curious, not one response posting. Not even a link to perhaps some interesting past "three tramps" threads on the forum. I've been searching the net for any three tramps essays. Several found but so redundant in their mostly sparse facts inconclusive identification conclusions. Chauncy Holt ( the man most often identified as the old frumpy hat tramp) is recited and even quoted. The guy sounds absolutely nuts and unbelievable. Charles Rogers is most often cited as Frenchy. His background is associated with intelligence connections so convoluted and weird he's another ridiculous sounding character. One story goes that he chopped up his elderly Houston Texas residing parents ( because they knew too much ) and stuffed their wrapped pieces into their own refrigerator. With at least one of their heads found in the frig vegetable drawer. And just as crazy, his parents were actually killed this way! The middle tramp most often Identified as Charles Harrelson or Frank Sturgis has never been adequately identified. You'd think at least a few people in his past would have immediately came forward and stated his true identity. "Hey! That's our Uncle Ralph. He's been in and of mental health wards due to depression driven alcoholism." But nothing? And it is true that most of the police booking paperwork centered around these three characters has gone missing. These three train box car hanging fellows are perhaps the three most neglected Dealey Plaza/train yard suspicious characters it seems to me. Yet, there they are in iconic Dealey Plaza photos that are such a well known part of the JFK event.

Exactly.

John, you are right. The blue coat woman appears to be wider bodied and thicker legged that the tan coat woman above. And the shade of the blue coat is deep enough that depicted in black and white, would not appear as light toned as the one in the black and white photo above. Beverly Oliver was a big boned blond girl. The tan coat woman above is not even close to Oliver's girth and definitely not blond from the hair exposed in front of her scarf. And just for heavy sadness relieving fun, wouldn't it have been a fortuitous and possibly shooter distraction event if the long overcoat wearing woman standing in the famously depicted grassy area was actually Tammi True and just as JFK's limo was approaching and going by, threw open her coat to reveal herself in all her skimpy outfit Carousel Club stage performing splendor? Might have shocked driver Bill Greer into slamming on the brakes to a complete stop and/or caused JFK to turn his upper body leftward enough to make for a much harder to hit target. Sorry, but sometimes all this super heavy tragedy discussion needs a lighter break now-and-then imo.

Like everyone I want to look at the incredible unprecedented life changing stresses we are currently going through in a view and way that as truly scary, powerful and freedom threatening as they are, that they really are temporary and soon ( no more than a year from beginning to end ) they will all go away, or at least get much better, with new medicinal drugs. And we can go back to the open, care free and job pay good life most us were enjoying and we now know...taking for granted. And these obvious wag-the-dog, planted agitator, purposely heightened fear inducing secret military police attacks against protesters will end with their true agenda being exposed. And that agenda imo? Trump has frantically grabbed onto the protest movement and with Orson Well's "War Of The Worlds" Martian invasion terror type intensity broadcast manipulation, is using this politically ( have you seen Trump's new television campaign ad warning American's that voting for Biden will unleash these boogieman terrorists upon them?) as a press coverage distraction from his failed Covid-19 leadership and other failures and bad personal character exposes to try to scare his way to election victory this coming November 3rd. It's a tried and true Republican election campaign strategy formula. So much like how Nixon used the 1968 Democratic convention Chicago demonstrations ( again totally fed and inflamed by paid agitators ) to do the same and define him and the Republicans as the only true "law and order" saviors whom regular Americans needed to protect them from these commie, free love and drug peddling, draft dodging, long haired young hooligan anarchists who will spread into their communities to corrupt their daughters if they voted for the commie/hippy lovin'/ police hating Democratic party. Same with Nixon in 1972 and Bush in 1988 with Willie Horton. It works! I still hope for the best with all this current scary virus and police state turmoil, however, more than I have ever felt in my 68 years, I am feeling a sense of dread that things might very well not get better or could easily even get worse! It is not impossible to believe that even more society and broader global stress events can and might occur before we get a handle on these current unprecedented damage and stress causing ones. Compounding these stresses to even more unimaginable higher levels. I am not a church going religious person, but I have had thoughts of prayer spontaneously pop into my head recently. Guess like everyone else, the apprehensive anxiety is deeper and stronger than I realize. And Trump just makes it worse imo.

Well one thing is for sure, that Babushka Lady in the picture above is NOT Beverly Oliver.

Mark, yes, Newman and Lovelady are wearing plaid shirts that day. Good find. I was wrong about no other plaid shirts being worn in Dealey Plaza that day. However, if the younger man standing next to the picket fence was wearing a colored plaid shirt like Newman and Lovelady, I doubt Bowers could see the plaidness clearly. The color kind of makes the plaid strips blend in imo. Same with Julia Ann Mercer. Now she "was" close enough to have seen a colored plaid shirt on the gun case carrying young man and still see it as a "plaid" shirt. But she never mentioned a "color" of the shirt in her affidavit with the Sheriff's department. It would have been a significant double witness testimony point if both Lee Bower's and Julia Ann Mercer described the same plaid shirt. As in straight Black and White.

I know there are volumes of Three Tramps threads in the Forum Archives. If someone knows a couple of the most informing and interesting ones, please repost them. I am not that savvy regards the archives myself. I just want to revisit this specific subject because it seems to me that the research determinations and conclusions are mostly as nebulous today as they were 57 years ago. I'm just going to throw out some general thoughts of contemplation to begin the discussion. However, I want to read again the thoughts of others on this subject. It's always been a favorite JFK side story to me. Questions: Were all three tramps found in the same box car? Or were they in separate cars by themselves? Either way , did the police gather what booze containers they may have been drinking from? The E. Howard Hunt look-alike Tramp has his paper bag. Did this contain his bottle? Mentioned many times, they all seem clean shaven. Was their box car drinking a part time thing in the day where they went home at night to a clean up bathroom? Were any of these three showing signs of inebriation when they were pulled out of the box car or cars? They sure don't looked boozed up to me? Did they stagger at all on their blocks long perp walk? Were these guys Dallas residents? Or did they ride in from out of town? Their haircuts look quite maintained except the taller Tim Robbin's look-alike whose hair is a bit tousled even though trim on the sides and not too long. "Frenchy's" hair looks downright well trimmed. For a train box car tramp the guy looks like a male model in an Italian fashion ad. Chic combo of nice, clean, well fittied sports coat over a clean knit sweater shirt with it's collar stylishly pulled up. Complimented with hip ( again well fitting) jeans which is really cool before it's time. Nice shoes to boot. No train track walking dirty well worn footwear for this Romeo. He reminds me of some well known Italian/American crooner back in those days. He looks fit, trim, tan, hand and nail clean and well sleep rested. Could be any Mediterranean type although I don't see him as Cuban or Mexican. Wonder if he spoke with a foreign accent? Tim Robbin's "might" be more box car hopping looking than Frenchy. Still, his clothing doesn't look too dirty. A little rumpled. Shirt untucked. His eyes do look tired imo. He does have a slight grin at times in different photos. Maybe he is thinking this is all so ridiculous it's kind of humorous? I don't think this guy is Charles Harrelson. I don't see the resemblance as much as others. Baggy Gabby bringing up the rear does of course look more box car residing rumpled and unkempt. His outfit almost looks too tramp perfect. Like he came across Charlie Chaplin's actual movie wardrobe. The perfect ragged crumpled hat, sweater too short, unwashed pants unevenly pulled up and belted, over sized pointy boots. And he walks like Chaplin with feet sticking way out sideways. His expression in one of exaggerated grumpiness. Pinched eyes, hanging down mouth. Could Baggy Gabby be an act? Could Bond type spy novel writer Hunt pull off this master of disguise play? Would he even try? Could one or both the police escorts of the three tramps be wearing an ear piece? Are they really carrying their shotguns incorrectly? Is that really Colonel Ed Lansdale the three tramps walk by in front of the Texas School Book Depository building on their way to interrogation? The detainment and questioning records of these three is suspect?

Is it still just the Black Lives Matter cause they are demonstrating for? Or has the demonstration agenda grown to include other protestations? Such as secret federal military type troops in complete combat gear clubbing people like Navy Veteran Christopher David, throwing demonstrators into unmarked vehicles and tear gassing the Wall Of Moms?

Mark, I can't even tell if the man standing below the other two men on the Elm street side of the grassy knoll in the picture you posted is wearing a "plaid" red shirt versus a plain red shirt. The photo is so blurred. Interesting question though: When Lee Bowers said he saw a younger, thinner build man wearing a "plaid" shirt standing near the fence on the upper parking lot/ train track side, was this plaid shirt a "black and white" one? Bowers used a color description with the other man's "white" shirt. Why would he not describe the plaid shirt with a color description if it was a distinct color as well? Same with Julian Ann Mercer. Was the "plaid shirt" she saw her younger man wearing a "black and white" one as well? You would think that the Warren Commission would have asked Bowers if the plaid shirt was a red, green or yellow one versus a black and white one? And the same with the Dallas County Sheriff's asking Julia Ann Mercer the same question? I would think both Bowers and Mercer would have mentioned their plaid shirt observations as being a colored shirt versus a black and white one. Without mentioning a color I think everyone would imagine a "plaid shirt" as being a black and white one, unless described in color first. Wouldn't you? Also, did Lee Bowers keep a pair of binoculars in his tower? You would think in his highly responsible train traffic control responsibility position he would. The tower is far enough away from some of the farther track areas and he might need them to see certain train numbers if the need ever arrived. He might have used them to get a closer look at the strange surveillance vehicles circling the lot in front of him. And, we know the car lot between the knoll and train tracks and cars was crawling with many people right after the shooting. Still, I wonder if Bowers noticed the police bringing out of one of the train cars the three tramps? It would have been interesting to hear Bower's take on train car bums and how often he saw them in his years of tower work. I'm going to start a new thread on the three tramps. I know it's a part of the Dealey Plaza event on that afternoon that has been covered 1,000 times, but l think it is still worthy of delving into again, partly because after all these years and the thousand postings about it it is still an unresolved and worthy import matter.

Yes Pete, agree. Incredibly detailed physical descriptions of the vehicles and the men driving them. Including what sounds like ear pieces, radio or walkie talkie type devices with at least one driver talking into one while driving through the lot directly in front of Bowers. Goldwater bumper sticker on at least one of the unusual acting vehicles which sparks at least a tinge of suspicion that whoever owned this vehicle was a right wing political person and we all know what the right wing types thought of JFK. And no government agency ever came forward to claim ownership of these vehicles doing obvious surveillance of the lot. And one must also remember Lee Bower's fairly clear description of the two men milling next to the picket fence in his WC testimony. Mr. BALL - Now, were there any people standing on the high side---high ground between your tower and where Elm Street goes down under the underpass toward the mouth of the underpass?Mr. BOWERS - Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about mid-twenties, in either a PLAID SHIRT or plaid coat or jacket. Bower's clothing description of this mid-twenties man coincidently matches in one very specific way Julian Ann Mercer's description of the clothing worn by the "younger" twentyish man she witnessed leaving the stalled air conditioning truck below the grassy knoll two hours earlier and carrying what looked to Mercer to be a "gun case" up to the top of the knoll where she didn't see this younger man return before she was finally able to move on in traffic. Mercer stated in her truth sworn Dallas County Sheriff's affidavit taken the afternoon of 11,22,1963 that the young man she saw leave the stalled Elm Street truck and carry a gun bag or case up to the knoll top was wearing a "PLAID SHIRT." So we have "two" sworn eyewitness's stating they both saw a "younger man" wearing a "plaid shirt" ( or "jacket" as Bowers also described) in the area above the grassy knoll. Mercer's plaid shirt wearing younger man toting a "gun case" was seen by her ascending up to the same exact area where Lee Bowers saw another plaid shirt wearing younger man an hour or two later. Coincidence? Scanning all the Dealey Plaza crowd photo's and film before and up to JFK's motorcade arrival, I'll guess not "one" of the hundreds of people in all the pictures was wearing a distinct checkered or plaid shirt or jacket. A plaid top would stand out because it's a quite uncommon clothing item. It's something I would expect an outdoorsman type would wear on a fishing or hunting trip. Kind of an L.L. Bean or Pendleton shirt affair. Oh, and another thing. This photo looking out the train tower room Bower's sat in is clearly taken many years later than 1963. Notice the vehicles in the lot? Much newer models. Mini-pickups included. When did small pick up trucks first come out? And the trees along the picket fence are much more grown out than they were in 1963. They obscure the fence much more than 1963 when they weren't so full in leaf and canopy growth. Bowers could see the entire bodies of the men he described standing next to the picket fence much more clearly than if they were standing there when this later photo from Bower's tower was taken.

Dear God!

Doug, I never thought I would see the day when our government actually began a real disclosure acclimation program for the masses regards the ET subject. It "looks like" this may be just that. Marco Rubio ( a sitting senator and current acting Chairman Of The Committee On Intelligence ) actually states in a public interview the possibility of objects in our skies not being of Earthly origin. The speculations around the who, why, what, true agenda and political ramifications are endless. Doug, if this is not a false flag operation, your essays about this subject over years here on this forum may be proven to be legitimate and prescient. Those that have made fun of you in this regards all that time will just scurry way and try to become invisible to return criticism I am guessing. Doug, you mentioned "two" massive dynamic humanity changing events happening in 2020 that you claim Richard Nixon stated in a private meeting (or letter?) back 50 years ago in the White House. I wonder, could ET disclosure be the other one besides this virus?

'I wish her well': Trump's shocking support for Ghislaine Maxwell www.cnn.com › 2020/07/22 › opinions › epstein-trump-... 20 hours ago - Former Epstein partner: Trump and Maxwell knew each other well 02:37. Elie Honig is a CNN legal analyst and former federal and state ...

And what was Sylvia Odio's response when she was shown this photo?

OOPS. Looks like a photo shopped pic.

Total "Wag The Dog" creation. Trump needs a dangerous super exaggerated boogie man threat to portray himself as our hero/savior. Scare the hell out of naive Americans, then ride in on your white horse like the Lone Ranger...Hi Ho Silver...Away! This is all another Willie Horton scare the masses scam.

HA HA HA HA HA HA...ROFL David! Great caption! I sure needed a good laugh and you delivered ... in spades! Ghislaine Maxwell is eyeing three sheets to the wind Melania hungrily. Trump and Epstein...good pals in this photo.

Kilgallen's life story would make for a great, multi-episode series such as Netflix produces. I would propose this to Netflix but little people can never get connected through to anyone in that corporate creative realm. And it sounds like Kilgallen biography writer Mark Shaw has a shark like grip on the rights to this story.