Joe Bauer

The tan, V-neck, sleeveless vest sweater photo of Oswald - where and when was this taken? Was it taken at an immigration application location, a post office, in a photo booth? Marina didn't take this photo? Who did?

When Donald Rumsfeld says 2.3 trillions of dollars can't be tracked in Pentagon spending ( as well as untold trillions more in black budget spending over decades ), Bill Clinton says on national TV that there is a secret government besides our elected government, national media is controlled regards certain areas of national security issues and in what they can report and how they report it, Presidents are kept from major secrets and told they don't have "need to know" security clearance, Supreme Court justices are bought and paid for by billionaires, international wealth is connected with mutual interests, Wall Street's most powerful can buy and make or break political candidates, and on and on ... I suggest this matrix of super wealth, power and control entities could be categorized as at least a major part of a deeper unknown to the public state. And couldn't Dwight Eisenhower's Military, Industrial, Congressional Complex leaving office speech below logically be interpreted as an unelected, lack of constitutional oversight and restraint "deep state" warning one? “Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. “We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, 3½ million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations. “Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society. “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.”

I see. Fascinating.

Me too Paul. It's seldom accessed anyway.

Micheal, since it's here and I have always been fascinated by the subject since my brother's tale of seeing red circular objects hovering over the Air Force Base he was stationed at in Morocco as an air policeman back around 1960, and being told by his command officer "we have nothing on radar, therefore you see nothing." "And don't write home about it." I just occasionally chime in. Yes, it's not JFKA centric...although we know that JFK himself was very interested in the subject.

Never in our lifetimes Doug have we ever seen anything close to the national news media coverage of the UFO/Alien ET subject as we are now seeing ... almost daily! And unlike past official government/military responses to the occasional UFO reports that were so dramatic and witnessed by so many credible people that they broke through the general downplaying media blockade, we are not seeing the typical ( simple and even ridiculous explanation ) rebuttals from them since the 1940's. Weather balloons, crash dummies, swamp gas, temperature/cloud inversions, light reflections, camera photo defects, alien monster costume antics in the Phoenix lights event, etc. Looks to me like this huge national media coverage change might very well be the beginning stages of a planned government program of disclosure. The numbers in national polls show a huge increase in everyday people now saying they do not totally dismiss the possibility of the UFO/ET story being true. Or in the least, only a figment of tin hat wearing loon's imaginations. Wonder what the real agenda is behind this obvious change in government policy of allowing so much national media discussion coverage of the once lunatic labeled area of UFOs without serious downplaying rebuttal?

A quirky thought occurred to me that the "Colonel William "Mud" Henderson" character in the film ( played by Andrew Duggan ) looked very physically similar to Colonel Fletcher Prouty. Same height, build, head shape, hair cut and even a facial resemblance.

Kennedy thought Seven Days in May should become a movie. Arthur Schlesinger, a presidential adviser, said Kennedy wanted the film ‘made as a warning to the generals’. The president reached out to Hollywood contacts and learnt Kirk Douglas, the star and producer of Spartacus, wanted to adapt the novel for the screen. In reality, Douglas was on the fence. He liked the ‘risky’ material but had been advised by peers ‘to stay away from it’ for fear of offending the government. That changed when Kennedy accosted Douglas at a Washington banquet. ‘Do you intend to make a movie out of Seven Days in May?’, the president asked, before explaining why it would make ‘an excellent movie’. Encouraged, Douglas bought the rights and asked John Frankenheimer, who had enjoyed recent success with the Cold War thriller The Manchurian Candidate, to direct. Frankenheimer agreed, sensing an opportunity to show ‘what a tremendous force the military/industrial complex is’. Pierre Salinger, the president’s press secretary, gave the director a tour of the White House for research purposes. He also explained that, for Kennedy, the film represented ‘a warning to the republic’. It was certainly a way of alerting public opinion and, as Schlesinger put it, ‘raise consciousness about the problems involved if the generals got out of control’. Seven Days in May attracted an all-star cast: Burt Lancaster played the general behind the coup, Ava Gardner his lover, Fredric March the president and Kirk Douglas a military whistleblower. It was filmed over the summer of 1963. One scene was shot in front of the White House with Kennedy’s blessing. The Pentagon, however, denied the production filming permits since Frankenheimer would not submit the script for ‘consideration’, aware that the military authorities would demand changes. Yet the crew still managed to shoot there; Frankenheimer hid a camera inside a van while Douglas, dressed as a colonel, strode incognito into the Pentagon, even saluting a guard on his way in. President Kennedy signs the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, 7 October 1963. During filming, real life imitated fiction. In July 1963 JFK announced that, like the fictional president in Seven Days in May, he had struck a nuclear deal with the Soviet Union. The Test Ban Treaty – the first arms control agreement of the Cold War era – outlawed most nuclear testing. It was seen, by both supporters and detractors, as opening a peace process with the Soviet Union. The British prime minister Alec Douglas-Home deemed it ‘the beginning of the end of the Cold War’. Although it was ratified by the US Senate in September 1963, Kennedy’s treaty was initially opposed by most of the military. Seven Days in May was released in February 1964 and was well-received by audiences and critics. Variety magazine called it ‘realistic’ and ‘provocatively topical’. What did John Kennedy think of the film he had helped get made? He never saw it; he had been assassinated three months earlier.

After reading some of the responses I realize I am wrong about JFK directly asking Frankenheimer to direct the film. As always I should have done at least a quick search into the historical record of the film's genesis. Obviously I need to edit my thread title. Still, this film really does grab you regards the similarities between JFK and the highest ranking U.S. military officers of the time who probably hated JFK and seriously considered him a threat. I noticed a film structure sound effect in 7 DAYS IN MAY similarly used in Oliver Stone's 1993 film "JFK." That of the tense military drum rolls. Often used in 7 DIM and as well in the beginning of "JFK" as a tension building effect leading up to the booming shot sound indicating JFK's head being blown off in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963.

Just viewed it again. Ominously prescient. After the fact?

Did Humes ever say he cut JFK's brain stem? Perhaps he expressed astonishment when he stated to Jenkins and Boswell..."the damn thing just fell into my hands" because he didn't cut the stem himself? How about cutting JFK's eye nerves and temporal muscles and tendons as well? Corpsman Paul O'Conner described the need to cut the eye nerves and temporal tendons to free the brain from them so you could pull it out without it being held back by them...correct? I'll look back at Humes's testimony to see if he ever did describe such cutting. Just to get to the eye nerves and temporal tissues you have to cut and move the front half of the skull over the decedent's face...correct?

31 ... and you are tired? Try 72 with typical numerous "Golden Years" physical degeneration issues! As "Dragnet" L.A. PD Sergeant Joe Friday would say... "Count your blessings fella!" Just a little brevity here. I read "everybody's" postings here. Always have. My feeling is to be open-minded enough to realize sometimes other people's JFKA research findings (no matter how contrary to my own) may have enough validity to give me a challenge in testing them against my own. And I never take JFKA debate arguments here personally. I will admit however, I very often drifted from that impersonal civility mind set when our discussions here were really going off on today's current political wars. But that issue has been corrected. Despite my many disagreements with Montenegro's JFKA related postulations ( often strongly felt ) I am very often pulled into reading his postings because I find them generally quite interesting as well as your career background. And I think you are damn good writer. Don't take the critical argument responses to your postings here too personally RM! Just let em slide off of you. Your passion for the JFKA truth is obvious, commendable, worthy and appreciated. The credibility of your JFKA findings, conclusions and opinions will be established over time through the test of debate even if they sometimes get heated and even personal. This JFKA education and "debate" forum is STILL the best one on the internet. Imo anyways. One good thing about living to old geezers age is you learn to not take criticism of yourself as seriously as when you were younger. Every person that has laid such on me has more than enough of their own faults and failures, enough to write a book. Through your postings I have learned some things about Fletcher Prouty to make me take a more thorough look at him and his writings and reevaluate their credibility ( at least some of them ) with more serious questions than I allowed myself to ponder previously.

How could Humes do "any" saw work on that mess?

In the first linked group interview video with David Mantik Jenkins quotes Humes as saying "the damn thing just fell into my hands" upon Humes holding the supposed brain of JFK in front of Jenkins.

Lazily, I skipped reading the pages you listed above from your book Vince. Just read them now. MIND BLOWING! Mastrovito stated with great indignation how "shameful" it was for fellow SS men to profit from publicly sharing SS inside information ( books and personal appearances ) regards the JFKA and their personal involvement and or opinions regards any of their official SS duties related to it. Yet Clint Hill and Gerald Blaine hypocritically get a pass from these shameful actions charges? Mastrovito possessed a "prescription medicine" sized bottle containing a part of JFK's brain? He held onto it for years? And Mastrovito just decides to destroy the bottle and brain matter of and by his very own volition? No running this incredibly important historical item destruction action by anyone above him? Reminds one of FBI SA James Hosty destroying his office's Lee Harvey Oswald file upon orders from his boss Gordon Shanklin the day Oswald was whacked by Jack Ruby...and keeping this massively important, investigation shaking evidence destruction action from the Warren Commission with the chuckling explanation that he did so because..."they didn't ask." !!! Laughingly admitting he knowingly violated his sworn oath to the WC to tell them ...'The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...so help me God." Choosing instead to place and protect his own agency, his own position and his own retirement pension above any higher cause JFKA truth investigation mission obligation to the American people. One thing seems clear after decades of revelatory JFKA related research finding discoveries. That JFK and RFK really did not know the true extent of power, control and influence our non-elected government agencies had acquired by 11,22,1963. Obviously, beyond anything they thought they knew. Oh, and Vince...it seems probable that your personal phone lines were tapped and for years. Seems the most logical explanation as to why several witnesses you uncovered in your research who at first told you they would provide you with much more information regards any number of mind blowing personal evidence info ... and then completely and immediately cutting you off. My guess anyways.

I really could not see Humes doing whatever saw work he needed to do on JFK's skull and finishing it in just the time it took Jenkins to take a pee. And Jenkins mentioned only one food break. He was given a sandwich that contained a meat that Jenkins didn't like. So, he threw it in the trash and simply came back into the autopsy room. Even as old as Jenkins was in these later life interviews, I would think he would remember see Humes doing any saw work on JFK.

So, are you saying Prouty was quite possibly or even probably anti-Semitic? Yet, in your opinion this doesn't totally discredit him and his proclamations of JFKA guilty parties? Isn't it true that thousands of American men in highest levels of wealth, power, position and influence going generations back 100 years were anti-Semitic?

So, what is your take on the shot sequence, Harold Norman's testimony, and the whole shooting event EM?

Agree

Having viewed the Z-Film more times than healthy over decades, I can say with certainty that Harold Norman's stated rifle shot/cartridge ejection and reloading timing sequence of an evenly spaced apart.... "Boom-click, click" "Boom-click, click" "Boom-click, click" Does not fit the actual time spacing between the JFK back shot and the JFK head shot. Look at the Z-film in real time. Slap your hand down on a table top or clap your hands together the second JFK is hit in the back. Do so again when you see JFK hit in the head. And/or repeat out loud Harold Norman's "Boom-click,click" "Boom-click,click" words with the "same exact timing" sequence that he gave in his Gerry Spence/Vincent Bugliosi "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald" mock trial appearance below: 7:16 NOW PLAYING ON TRIAL LEE HARVEY OSWALD PART 5 WITNESS HAROLD NORMAN +6 More 0:30 NOW PLAYING

18:35 pm is military time, which is 6:35 PM standard time...correct? James Jenkins stated in the first interview video with David Mantik that he never witnessed a saw being used on JFK and he was with the body the entire time. But that he did see a saw mark running longitudinal along the back top of the skull. Perhaps indicating that someone else made that saw cut before Humes work?

Petty told Spence he didn't need to see the brain to reach the conclusion that he did that the brain was intact upon removal. That X-rays and pictures and Humes report sufficed. X-rays? Skull fractures easy to see of course. Soft tissue brain matter is a different story. Were any pictures of JFK's brain taken immediately after it was removed? And if so, did they show the 1/3rd missing part that James Jenkins said he saw? Spence repeated the factual physical evidence of brain matter being on the limo back seat, spattered on the back seat interior panels, on Jackie, exploded up into the air where it hit the two rear left motorcyclist policemen with enough force they thought maybe they were hit with projectiles. Obviously more JFK brain matter landed in the street behind the limo. Jackie handed Dr. Jenkins in the ER room some more brain matter she had held in her hand. Several Parkland hospital ER personnel reported seeing brain matter oozing out of the back of JFK's head while he was prone on the exam table. An intact 1500 gram weight brain? These major contradictions with JFK'S brain are starkly even laughably obvious.

Ah...I've been fooled! Still, just watched the London Trial video of Spence questioning Petty. Spence showed the jury a picture of the Mannlicher Carcano "Magic Bullet" side by side with two similar bullets that had been shot into wadding only. All three looked undamaged. The Magic Bullet even had it's original metallic sheen! He then showed the jury and Dr. Petty a picture of a bullet that was of the same exact type as the Magic Bullet shot into the wrist bone of a cadaver. Same exact part of the wrist bone that Governor John Connally received his Magic Bullet wound. This bullet wasn't even fired into a human rib which Connally's bullet also hit and fractured! This other bullet was flattened/smashed down to half it's length! Dr. Petty responded with indifferent silence regards the huge physical differences in both bullets. If I'm on that jury...that smashed other bullet photo ( one of the most powerful pieces of evidence imo ) would have made me totally discount Petty's conclusions about the almost pristine Magic Bullet having broken Connally rib and wrist bone with miniscule ( barely noticeable ) damage to it.

Lane is crushing Bugliosi with his Petty questioning. Just blowing him away!

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