Joe Bauer

Of course one can see differences. To what degrees is very subjective. The first photo on the left is obviously Oswald as a lean and mean late teens marine. The next photo on the right definitely shows a more pudgy, pasty and less fit face with a longer and more relaxed hair growth versus the super trim and tidy Marine buzz cut. The lighting is so different. Cheap Russian camera perhaps? Oswald in this 2nd photo looks like a married man who is much more sedentary than a daily running and marching teen Marine. And maybe Marina's borscht, boiled potatoes and sweet cakes fare added some extra weight? Oswald's Dallas jail pic obviously shows him under extreme physical stress. Days of not eating and sleeping well and this on top of his weeks of spare boarding rooming house fare of mostly just peanut butter sandwiches and milk and his sandwich and soda pop school book depository lunches? The backyard pic is different in even more curious ways. The daylight lighting is so bright. The facial shadows starker and darker. Oswald looks harder and more stern in this photo. Older looking than 22 or 23 imo. Most photo's of Oswald he is serious and unsmiling, as these 4 pics show. I've seen "a few pics" of Oswald slightly smiling and relaxed. One where he and Marina are waving from the deck of the large passenger boat leaving to go to America, another of him and his Russian buds clowning around on a day off adventure and another of him and Marina at a family gathering at his brother Robert's Dallas area home. And in one of his New Orleans leaflet passing pics. So, differences in the photos? For sure and with some valid suspicion even imo. Different lighting, cheap cameras and normal aging explain some of the differences however. The second photo from the left is the most intriguingly different one imo. Did the Russki's pull a doppleganger switcharoo here?

Roger Stone. America's most infamous and prolific "Dirty Trickster." A title he embraces with bragging gusto! What a darkly perverse mind-set person. Always looking for ways to undermine his employer's competition. Using any means possible no matter how unethical, immoral or even illegal. Yuchh!

If the ET story is true it is the most top secret and well-guarded program to ever exist in the history of mankind. By standards and means beyond imagination. Way beyond even the Manhattan Project. And those who own it and control it have higher authority than any other branch or official in our constitutionally mandated form of governance. This control group is beyond our constitutional mandate balance of power and oversight. When this ET secret control group can tell the highest elected officials in our nation ( our presidents ) what they can and cannot know regards this secret...who is the higher authority? If this scenario is reality...we no longer have a Constitutional Republic as 99% of Americans since 1776 believed we have had since that time. That concept and reality has been breached by a new higher authority form of government. Obviously, it's a truly scary concept to contemplate. A possible indication of this new form of non-elected higher authority government power and control are the reported TRILLIONS of dollars spent by our government since the 1950's that are separated from normal congressional oversight and knowledge. Commonly referred to as the "Black Budget." While Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld once made a miniscule covered reference to this black budget / black hole of trillions of our tax dollars missing from any accountable records of it's destination and use. Then again, if the ET visitation story is untrue, then maybe all this scary scenario worry is unfounded.

The Louisiana state police officer Frances Fruge', who transported injured and drug withdrawal suffering Rose Cheramie ( real name Melba Marcades ) to the state hospital, steadfastly stood by his recounting of Cheramie telling him JFK would be killed in Dallas in the next few days. Cheramie's astounding JFKA claim ( with specific time and place details ) inspired Fruge' to such a degree of concerned and believable importance he donated much of his time and effort then and even years later during the Jim Garrison case against Clay Shaw, to sharing his story publicly and directly to many law enforcement agency's including the Dallas, Texas PD days after 11,22,1963. From my lifetime JFKA study, I have never read anything about Fruge' being proven to be some noncredible person in anyway. Throw in the fact that Cheramie was in the company of Sergio Smith of New Orleans Cuban Revolutionary activity fame when she was tossed out of his moving car and provenly had worked for Jack Ruby at one point ( even though briefly ) years previous and you must admit her story has enough circumstantial weight to be considered as true as not. IMO anyways.

Horrific beyond horrific.

Added some interesting links and a photo of the outside of the Oakland draft induction center in 1969 above.

What I noticed was the declaration of Oswald being the killer of JFK on the bottom of the arrest record. No matter when that notation was added to that form, this assertion is speculation more than proven fact. Oswald was "a suspect" in the murder of JFK...but never legally tried and found guilty. Curry himself admitted they didn't have the best evidence tying Oswald to the JFK killing. No eyewitness identification. No confession. Mixed forensic evidence.

Welcome Scotty Moore!

So Pamela. Which story is true? The one Hosty gave to the WC? Or the one he shared with you? I lost all respect for Hosty when he admitted ( chuckling ) that he withheld the truth of his destruction of his FBI office's file on Oswald just one day after Jack Ruby whacked Oswald, in his Warren Commission testimony. When asked why he didn't tell the WC the "full" truth and "nothing but the truth-so help me God " regarding his agency's destruction of their Oswald file ( mind blowing important evidence ) and violated his oath to do so, Hosty smugly, blithely remarked ..."They didn't ask me." !!! They didn't ask you? How could they even know what to ask you? The only person who could tell them about your destruction of your agency's Oswald file would be you! Or your boss who ordered it...James Gordon Shanklin. If the Warren Commission had been told that your agency had purposely destroyed your Oswald file just days after the JFKA it would have blown the investigation into a full blown panic! The entire investigation would have been compromised. The FBI destroying mind blowing important evidence like their Oswald file would have destroyed the FBI's credibility. Hosty put his agency and his own standing and retirement position before his oath to tell the WC the "full" truth and "nothing but the truth." And in so doing cheated the American people the chance to hear and know much more of the truth about Oswald than they were told. The Warren Commission's mission of finding the full truth was way, WAY more important than the FBI's reasons for destroying their Oswald file...and keeping this truth from them. Hosty blatantly l*** to the WC in purposely keeping the full truth from them. And you would think Hosty would have fully honored his WC oath that included the words ... "so help me God" even more so being that he was a Catholic. But even an oath of full truth telling "to God" took a second place to protecting his job and his employer.

Ron, do you draw any speculative conclusions from your UMB/DCM movement scenario above? You think these fellows were in anyway more involved than simple innocent crowd bystanders?

Most of the crowd people closest to the shooting scene were confronted by local police and other security agency people and even photographers and press people. Asking them questions, taking their cameras, etc. The Newmans, Charles Brehm, Jean Hill and Mary Moorman, James Tague, Zapruder and others. So, here you have two eyewitness guys Witt and the DCM ( odd looking to boot ) who were within feet of JFK and the limo when he is first hit...and who then stick around sitting right down hand holding close where they were standing for several minutes...and neither of them are approached by anyone for questions? Didn't the authorities look at all the film and photos of the crowd who were closest to the limo when JFK was hit and try to identify everyone in those photo's? I would think those eyewitnesses just feet from the limo during the shooting would be of highest priority in that regards.

From my rather small West Coast high school ( 1200 students ) most ( but not all ) of the boys who went to Vietnam as Marine and Army combat soldiers ( drafted and joined ) were usually not high grade point students and even dropouts and from poorer families, etc. Conversely it seemed those from more middle class families and those who were better students or at least stayed in school mostly joined the Navy for their draft service. I don't think one kid that I knew of from well off families ever got drafted and didn't join as well. Even if they got a low draft number, it seemed somehow they all came up with something viable for a deferment. I was poor. I got my draft notice the day I turned 18. My number was 51. I didn't run or hide even though I did not want to go to Vietnam. Especially as a combat soldier. Several of our students were killed or seriously injured there. Our Junior High school principal Mr. Ed Plowman ( great guy ) lost his jet fighter pilot son over North Vietnam. His son was one the first jet fighter pilots shot down there. I already had 4 older brothers in the service in 1969. Two others served as well but got out by 1965. All joined from 1960 to 1967. They did so for basic economic reasons. It was the only economic opportunity they had going for them right after high school and coming from a single mom on welfare home situation. No money, no college. 4 joined the Navy. 2 joined the Air Force. All enlisted men. 3 were in the Pac theater scene. Troop transport ship and carriers. Radarman, aviation tech and jet mechanic Chief who stayed in for 20 years. Another brother ( Air Force ) was stationed in Japan and Thailand during the Viet Nam war. I was ordered to arrive at the Salinas, Calif. bus station at 4:00am just days after my birthday on September 21st, 1969. 6 old black buses with darkened windows took a couple hundred of us straight to the induction center in downtown Oakland to be processed. The second you stepped off the bus Marine uniformed men began yelling at you to march in this line or that. Shut up, no talking. First stop basic arithmetic and reading test. Junior high level. Amazingly many of my fellow draftees seemed to struggle with questions as basic as 20 X 35 divided by two. Many could barely read! The Army took those guys right away. I think some were even told they could go home their scores were so low. Next - remove your clothes down to your skivvees. Here's a basket. Carry it while you walk the colored lines we tell you to. No questions, MOVE IT, MOVE IT...you dumb SOB's! One hot headed draftee took offense to the gruff orders and hit a uniformed guard right in the nose! Blood everywhere. The punch throwing guy was instantly put upon by six other guards who knocked the holy crap out of him and roughly dragged him away. The rest of us got real big-eyed fear obedient after that. One checking station after another. Eyes, teeth, sexual orientation. Finally one for your feet! By chance I had very deformed feet. They looked like pig knuckles and my arches were so extremely high they never touched the ground. I had dozens of seriously turned ankles throughout my high school sports activities, especially basketball and even simple running. My ankle tendons were so stretched, torn and damaged and I "truly" had many bone spurs unlike Trump. Somehow I figured ahead of time it wouldn't hurt to see an Orthopedic doctor before I got drafted and he took X-rays of my feet and ankles. I took these with me to the induction center with a far-out hope that maybe my foot problems might get me a free pass out. And they did! At the foot station a gravelly voiced soldier guard yelled out..."anybody here got any problems with their feet?" I went full on Jerry Lewis goofy arm waving animated and squealed..."right here sir, right here!" I was removed from the big line and escorted to another wing of the building. Still walking in just my underwear and holding my basket and a large manila envelope with my X-rays. I was seated on a junky old couch in a hallway and left alone for 4 hours. Finally a guard come to me and gave me two theater type tickets. He said get your sorry *** down to this really crappy looking hotel in the worst part of downtown Oakland and check in. I was ordered to return to the induction center 5 or 6 blocks away at 7:am sharp the next morning. My hotel room was about 8 feet long. The old creaky spring bed looked like it had been in a skid row house of ill repute before this hotel got hold of it. Shared bathroom down the hall. No TV. Never really slept. Old room phone rang without pauses at 6:AM and the clerk simply said..."time to go." The other ticket was for a breakfast meal at a cheap dive called "Fosters Cafeteria" in between the hotel and the induction center. See Oakland history Ad below. It was still dark when I walked in. Lot of street people in there drinking coffee. Eggs and pancakes were surprisingly tasty. I soon walked to the induction center. Explained my situation and was ordered to some office exam type room. Waited 6 hours, again on the same couch. Finally a person who I assumed was an Orthopedic came and motioned me in. No pleasantries at all. " Get down and squat." "Now duck walk." "Stand on your tip toes." Walk to the wall and back." etc. etc. "Let me look at your X-rays." A few minutes of silent study and note writing then "Here...take these papers down the long hall to the number ( X? ) window. Clerk looked at them and soon enough stamped on new papers "1 Y" Medical deferment! "Here is a Greyhound bus pass back to your home town. Now get your B*** out of here." On the fairly long walk to the bus station I felt a weird cold breeze on my backside and noticed that at some point earlier ( doing squats in the exam room? ) I had split the back side of my cheap old pants "wide open." My white underwear was sticking out. I didn't care. I didn't have to go to Viet Nam! If my long personal Viet Nam draft story offends anyone here as time wasting irrelevant to the forum discussion focus let me know and I will delete all of it except the first few paragraphs. Foster's Cafeteria (AKA Foster's Bakery) was a chain of restaurants, particularly noted for their English muffins. In 1967, they were at 1240 Broadway. First Stop To Vietnam, The Induction Center WebJan 3, 2019 · It was July 17, 1969, and on the following day I would be signing my name to a contract for the next four years. It would have been nice to take my induction physical in …

It is a proven fact that a certain amount of voters actually vote based simply on their personal visceral feelings about a candidate's looks, and also but to a lesser degree their speaking manner and personal demeanor. I would guess 5 to 10 % of voters use this as their main motivation to vote for one candidate over the other. Bill Clinton benefitted from this aspect of voter motivation. Hubert H. Humphrey did not. Even Humphrey's "name" sounded a bit comical. Rhymed with "Humpty Dumpty." And his voice pitch was also kind of irritatingly scratchy, imo anyways. Still, I am sure that in typical Nixon dirty tricks ways, the repubs did their thing in that election to sabotage Humphrey's vote count just enough to guarantee his loss. Nixon's dirty trick team was in full operational mode well before the 1972 election.

AH HA! That part of this DCM mystery is SOLVED! Thank you Mart! Great sleuthing skills!

To me it appears that the item referred to as a radio (with antenna ) in the DCM's back pocket and at one point held up to his ear is the key to deciding whether these two guys deserve solid suspicion in the affair. Looks like no one can definitively prove there was or was not a radio. Unless perhaps current day advancement in digital photo analysis might do so? Outside of the radio proof to a scientific certainty we are left simply with the odd behavior of these guys during and right after the JFK kill shot. Imo it is very odd that both these men would do something no one else in Dealy Plaza did that day. They both sat down on the same curb, close enough together they could have held each other's hands. Yet, according to Witt, they didn't know each other at all. And Witt claimed the man he described as a "negro" said only these words to him ..."They done shot that man." That is American raised black lingo. Not Latino or Carribean. The photo of the tall thin DCM walking along the sidewalk with both his hands reaching "far back" around his waist to his backside is also very suspicious. If the DCM was actually carrying a radio with antenna, Houston, we have a problem. IMO anyways. That is definitely American negro word usage and slang.

Whether Ms. Walther was mistaken in her account or not, she sure sounds so damn sincere. Some people don't count the bottom ground level as a floor in counting floors in multi-floor buildings. Walthers never wavered however in her seeing "two men" in the same window. One with a white shirt and a gun. The other in a brown suit holding a shorter gun. I've never been East past the Grand Canyon and Reno in my 71 years here in California. So, I can't say how easy it would be for someone to see men in the Texas School Book building from the sidewalk where Walthers was standing in Dealy Plaza that noon time as JFK was driving underneath. I have however found some general distances from where Walthers was standing to the 6th floor windows. I did a walk through of our Monterey, CA hometown downtown where we have two high buildings. One with 7 or eight floors and one with maybe 10 or 11 floors. I walked across the street from the buildings and put myself at a distance Arnold Rowland stated he was when he saw the men with rifles in the TXSCB upper floor windows. Same with Ms. Walther. I even timed this to the noon time hour. 12 pm to 1 pm. Both these buildings faced the full sun as the TXBD building did on 11,22,1963. A few windows were open on these buildings higher floors. I was really amazed at how much I could see through those open windows. Illuminated so brightly with the noon-time sun. I could easily see men standing next to or even two or three feet back behind those windows. The Dallas, Texas sun at noon time lit up the motorcade facing windows in the TXSBD as bright as if they had a huge Hollywood Premier lamp shining directly upon them.

The man with the cap is right next to the Lincoln that carried LJB, Lady Bird, Ralph Yarborough and SS agent Rufus Youngblood just two cars behind JFK's limo in the motorcade. He is the only one close to it and it's passenger side and that door has been left open? Interesting that they left LBJ's limo so unprotected and with it's passenger side door left open I don't think this man is the DCM though.

Not a yes. But not a no either.

Ms. Sharp: What do you believe regards the DCM having a radio with antenna on his person during the shooting and right after?

Louis Witt testified under oath that he was the Umbrella Man. He also said the man who sat right next to him on the curb was a "negro man." He even recounted his negro man seatmate as saying to him " They done shot that man." No Latin/Caribbean country born and raised person would ever speak like that. That is pure black American raised lingo. Also the picture of Santiago above does not match the picture of the DCM shown sitting on the Grassy Knoll curb imo. Different is several ways. The distinct hair line for one. The Latino looking Santiago has solid sideburns coming down in front of his ears. The seated DCM has none. The radio with antenna aspect of this side story is potentially an incredibly strong indicator of it's importance. If that is really a radio with antenna and the DCM man is really speaking into it...this is a true smoking gun.

Could you provide more details about how you learned the tall DCM's identity? He is from where? Another country? Very suspicious if he came all the way from another country or even another state to see JFK and Jackie for just a few seconds and coincidently found a place to do so right at the point of shot impact upon JFK. Also, if the man was Mexican or Cuban or other Latin American or Caribbean island ethnicity, I don't get his very animated JFK admiring arm and hand waving/fist thrusting at JFK. American blacks were that admiring of JFK because of their perception of him as being more sympathetic to their equal rights seeking cause. JFK's standing up to Mississippi governor Ross Barnett during the integration issue at Ole Miss made JFK a hero to their cause. But a person with the Latin name Santiago? And Larry, do you see with certainty that this Santiago fellow had no radio with an antenna on his person in the above photos? Do you think the so-called antenna shown in both photos is an artificially enhanced falsely identified anomaly? Any speculations regards his hands being held all the way behind him to his backside as he walks?

If the image of a radio antenna shown in the picture of the two seated men with the dark complexion man holding something up to his mouth isn't enhanced artificially one is forced to consider him with great suspicion. The photo clearly appears to show the DCM holding "something" up to his face as he and the UBM are turned watching the crowd run up the grassy knoll. Also, the same with the picture of the tall, thin DCM walking along the sidewalk after he and the UBM decide to go their separate opposite direction ways. Either there is a long antenna sticking up from something in the man's back waist line or pocket or that is a shoulder to waist long crease in the back of the man's shirt. Revealed with a dark shadow. Also, the DCM is the only person seen walking with his hands behind his back. Not slightly but significantly. To a degree that if he wasn't pulling up the back of his pants ( as I have done many, many times ) or even perhaps rubbing his numbed buttocks after sitting on a hard curb, one must again consider this singular arm and hand movement and position with at least some suspicion. The umbrella man ( Louis Witt ) claimed he didn't know the DCM. He described him as a "negro man." Why would they both seat themselves as close together as theater seat mates? Especially when they didn't know each other and there was so much curb room they could easily have sat themselves down with much more space between them? They are so close to one another they could have held hands. Ground lying married couple Bill Newman and his wife Gail are farther apart than DCM and UBM! It seems logical that "someone" would have recognized the Morgan Freeman look-a-like DCM in all the decades of the pictures being shown of him. Especially if he were a resident of the Dallas area. His long, tall, thin body type is easily more recognizable than average imo. And include his fez type cap as another more uniquely identifiable part of this person.

Very enlightening and thought provoking posts Paul. Much appreciated.

So true and well expressed Pat. Totally agree. Our entire being happiness is not achieved solely by scientific advancement which greatly enhances material gain. Far from it. To acquire better modern convenience shelter and housing, transportation, medical care, toys, clothing, food choices, communication over long distance, etc., etc. is one thing. But every one of us homo-sapiens has a much deeper need for true happiness and fulfilment. One that the scientific method cannot meet anywhere near as much as our basic mammalian human DNA drive. That of raw intimacy. A life experience that written words, scientific achievements and abstract thought cannot compete with ... in the final analysis of acquiring true soul deep happiness and fulfilment. IMO anyways. The unexpected out-of-the-blue hard core pornographic scene of a naked, sweating Jean Tatlock ( and physically very attractive imo ) feverishly working over a naked and seated Oppenheimer makes sense in your assessment Pat. Oppenheimer's basic needs fulfilment were certainly much more than just his intellectual pursuits. The scene showed us that. In one sense you can say the scene was unnecessary and a story line distraction. My unexpected and instantaneous loin stirrings definitely confused me and my film train of thought. My brain chemistry was altered there for awhile. Ah...but what do we expect from any major film... cinematic perfection? What is that anyways? Overall, I appreciated the film as a deeper look at Oppenheimer - the man and his life centered around his involvement with the incredibly momentous event of the development of the first atomic bomb and the beginning of a new age of humanity. I must ask though...if Oppenheimer hadn't snatched his poisoned apple from his professor's visitor's hand and tossed it into the trash, would he had left it on the desk? And his even injecting the apple ( with sodium pentothal was it ?) gave me a chill in thinking...is this guy ( Oppenheimer) a "Ted Kaczynsky" type nut case? If that poisoned apple incident was true ... it makes me wonder if many so-called genius's aren't a little crazy in some sociopathic ways. Such as Asperger syndrome?

Jim D. I take it you didn't like Matt Damon as Groves as much as I did not? The daydream scene of a naked Jean Tatlock chair seat scr**ing the naked Oppenheimer during his clearance hearing was a gratuitous risk one for sure. Wonder what others felt about it?