Denny Zartman

They haven't been released and aren't available to researchers.

It seems to me that the answer is clear: those investigations did not want to go to where that trail would have led them. And it wasn't to the Mafia, Cuba, Russia, or Texas oilmen.

I think so. Remember the "I'm a gambling man" quote. He certainly seemed like the type who wouldn't have hesitated to bend the odds in his favor. Also, if he didn't order the hit, it seems that the conspirators got very, very lucky in having a new president who would be 100% on board with a cover-up from minute one to the very end. I tend to look skeptically at any aspect of the assassination plot that relies on luck. That said, Allen Dulles apparently participating a plot to assassinate de Gaulle is highly incriminating in my view. If Dulles would be willing to sanction the assassination of the president of an allied country, it's not a giant leap to think he would approve of a hit on his own president. Just my opinion.

I can't find the reference, but I remember reading that someone from Ruth's church said their church had a program to take in foreign exchange students, and Ruth did not participate in this program.

Kirk, Ruth Paine wasn't a spy, she was an asset. Theres a difference. An asset can live a regular life and be pressed into service when needed. And there is nothing "greatly ambiguous" about the fact that she cold-called Truly and got Oswald his job at the TSBD. If you believe the conspirators just got lucky when placing Oswald in the building, that's your right, but few people are going to take you seriously. We have to sit through Greg's hogwash about Oswald requesting a job in a tall office building. Gee whiz, it sure makes sense then that he applied to be a baggage handler at an airport, since we all know baggage handlers work in tall buildings. Now you understand why she wasn't questioned by the HSCA and the ARRB.

It seems to me they didn't want to go to where an honest investigation would have led them.

Excellent news. I'm looking forward to seeing the film. Thanks for being on the forum @Max Good. I appreciate it.

I believe he would have been found dead in his cell the next day. "Suicide." There was no way they were going to ever let him talk.

1. The current position of the US government is that it was probably a conspiracy. 2. The WC did not state that there was not a conspiracy, just that it could not find evidence of one. 3. The frontal neck wound appeared to be consistent with an entrance wound, not an exit. 4. JFK's back wound was shallow and was never tracked through the body. 5. LHO had no motive. He continually denied the crimes, which undercuts the claim the he killed JFK in order to "be somebody" and earn his place in history. 6. LHO was seen on the 2nd floor five minutes before the assassination and again seen in the 2nd floor two minutes after, not sweating or winded. Combined with statements from witnesses who were travelling on the staircase just after the assassination , it's strong circumstantial evidence that he was not on the sixth floor at 12:30. 7. Three WC members and LBJ himself doubted LHO acted alone. 8. No gunpowder residue found on LHO's cheek. From what I understand this would have been court admissible evidence that LHO had not fired a rifle that day. 9. JFK's personal physician and the only medical professional to see JFK at Parkland and Bethesda refused to go on record agreeing with the number of bullets the WC said entered JFK's body. 10. CIA's J. Walton Moore > intelligence connected George de Mohrenschildt > CIA connected Ruth Paine = LHO in Dallas and in the TSBD.

Excellent work, @Keyvan Shahrdar. I think you've done it. The bullet hole in the chrome over the windshield is not visible in the picture taken at Love Field.

Good work by everyone on this thread. It certainly makes for thought-provoking reading.

It's a very good series of articles. It must be fascinating to have the opportunity to discuss the case with Dr. Mantik. I'm sure his book will be a must-own.

Interesting.

I believe the official story is that it was a dent that was there prior to the assassination and was made during attaching or detaching of the detachable roof. I also recall that the edge of the detachable roof/bubble did not have anything at that spot that could have caused that dent, though I cannot confirm this as a fact.

No problem at all, my apologies for saying things in a confusing way!

I mean the theory proposed by others here on the forum of a false false flag: that the original plan among the conspirators was an intentionally botched assassination attempt to, I guess, re-impress upon Kennedy the importance of his personal security? And somehow this fake assassination was piggybacked upon and turned into the real thing or was just another ruse entirely, i.e. the false false flag. It's not my theory, and I don't subscribe to it. I agree with you, Sandy. There was considerable CIA effort put into making it look like Oswald was being directed by the Soviets and the Cubans.

Even though I believe he was not a shooter, he clearly did participate. He was the designated patsy, so he certainly played a role in the plans of the conspirators. I don't believe in the "false false flag" theory, but I do think that some operational elements were possibly put into place under the guise of a counter-assassination team. So, I think it's possible LHO was led to believe that his role was ultimately in preventing an attack rather than enabling one. Also, I am of the opinion that those people who did knowingly participate also felt that what they were doing was justified and ultimately patriotic, protecting the country from a leader they felt was endangering national security. People often point out when suspects are behaving in a way that indicates a conciousness of guilt. It's rarely noted that after his arrest LHO was calm and composed and, most importantly, never attempted to hide his face from the press.

Interesting. In my opinion the two men look much alike. There's hardly anything that looks dissimilar. The pointed hairline at the temples is a distinctive feature on both. The diagonal indented lines near the back of the jaw also seem to be the same. The pronounced cheekbone smile lines as well. The shape of the top of the head is consistent. But I see a dip/bend in the shape of Souetre's ear that isn't apparent to me on the LHO photo. It could be the angle.

Maybe we should clarify the difference between an agent and an asset?

in my opinion, if Oswald was being impersonated before JFK's presidency as the Hoover memo implies, that is circumstantial evidence supporting the Harvey and Lee theory.

Thanks for proving conclusively that dozens of records related to the Paines are being kept classified, Greg. Doesn't it make you suspicious that dozens of their tax records are sensitive enough to still be kept under lock and key for 59 years and counting? According to you, the Paines are innocent. If that were truly the case, then what could these tax records show? And yet for some mysterious reason these nearly six decade old tax records of these innocent Quakers are mixed in with other documents that are characterized as being potentially threatening to US national security today. Is that just a coincidence? An accident? If so, and these tax documents of the Paines don't show any connection to the CIA, then let's give researchers access. What could be the harm in that? I don't think revealing Ruth's income and deductions from 1962 could jeopardize either Ruth or United States national security now, do you? You believe the CIA would never conduct domestic activities. Interesting.

For some people there will never be enough circumstantial evidence. I'm sure that Ruth and Michael saw service to the CIA as their patriotic duty. They were keeping tabs on subversives and Communists. I think a good number of people involved in the conspiracy felt the same way: that what they were doing was ultimately to protect and defend the country.

That's fantastic. It sounds like it will be quite an event. I hope someone will record your discussion.

I can't wait to see the film. Based on Greg's reaction, it must be pure dynamite.

Why, it's almost as if he were two different people...