John Butler

Jim, The left hand photo is of Capt. Fritz and Detective Elmer Boyd. I'm not sure but I think that is Boyd's personal weapon. The gun he is carrying is a Remington Model 8. It is the first semi-automatic rifle designed for the public about 1908. It later became popular with police agencies across the country. I had done some work on this some time back. That particular model is sometimes called the Bonnie and Clyde gun. It is one of the weapons used to kill Bonnie and Clyde. It is a great sniper weapon for this reason. It can be easily concealed and carried into a building unnoticed. This was a police weapon of preference. Decked out it would look like this. I was at first suspicious of this photo of Fritz and Boyd. Lacking any other evidence it just has to be taken at face value. The right hand photo is Lt. Day of the Identification Bureau. They are two different rifles. On the left is a Remington Model 8 and on the right is the infamous Mannlicher-Carcano.

Thanks Paul, I had missed this fellow this time. I have a vague recollection of noting this fellow years back. I have certainly forgotten him. Edgar Smith was a regular Dallas Policemen which meant a blue uniform and white hat. I believe those with the black or blue hats were reserve police if they had such a thing. This guy doesn't have a completely blue uniform. I don't know what that means. Maybe a policemen from some other place?

Once again it is a matter of who do you believe! Romack's WC testimony is completely different from this FBI statement of 3-6-64. Here he says he ate his lunch on the loading dock of the TSBD at the north face. He was eating lunch when he heard the 3 shots. He says different things in the WC interrogation. He says he was about 125 yards from the TSBD in the construction area that would become Houston Street when he heard the 3 shots. I submit that at that distance he would only be able to tell which direction the shots came from. High or low or from a particular building is problematic. On 3-6-64 he said he never left the area of the loading dock. In his WC testimony he was not there but 125 yards from the TSBD when shooting occurred. Romack was a railroad worker and his statements have as much value as the false testimony of the other 10 railroad workers on the Triple Underpass. Romack says: "Mr. ROMACK. It sounded like to me that they were evenly spaced. They rang out pretty fast. Mr. BELIN. Have you ever operated a bolt action rifle? Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Do you own one? Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Did it sound like the shots were faster than it could be operated with a bolt action rifle? Mr. ROMACK. No, sir. Mr. BELIN. What kind of rifle do you have now, by the way? Mr. ROMACK. I have a---it is a---I can't answer that really. Mr. BELIN. What caliber? Mr. ROMACK. It is a 30-06. Mr. BELIN. 30-06 rifle? Mr. ROMACK. Yes, it is. And it is an old World War I mechanism. It is either an Enfield or a Springfield. Mr. BELIN. Bolt action? Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir." If you have either owned a 1903 Springfield or a British Enfield, there are basic differences, you would definitely be able to say which one you had unless you been caught in telling a complete falsehood and simply didn't know what you were talking about. Can Romack be believed?

I finally figured out Chris Davidson's photo he posted in Mass Hysteria in Dealey Plaza. Here it is compared to Altgens 5: They appear to show the same crowd in front of the Court Record Building. But, they are from different angles and maybe elevation. Notice that the Dallas Officers Smith are not in the photo. The crowds look to be the same in both photos. This might be Altgens 5 with the perspective shifted slightly? What is the word, keystoned? The shadow angles under the window are the same. Once again. Where did your photo come from Chris?

WC Exhibit 354:

Notice there is only one officer on the SE corner of Houston. And, pay attention to what Officer Edgar Smith says. Where he locates himself, which can be verified by the Marie Muchmore film, indicates there was a 4th and unknown officer there. Officer Edgar Smiths WC testimony: "to carry placards, but if I should notice anyone attempting to throw them or any thing like that, I should take them into custody. I was assigned to the corner of Houston and Elm Street. I got to my traffic corner about -- Mr. LIEBELER. Before you get to that - let me ask you a few questions: What did you say your name was, Edgar L.? Mr. SMITH. E. L. - Edgar L. Mr. LIEBELER. There were two Smiths on that corner? Mr. SMITH. Yes; I understand that. Mr. LIEBELER. When you received your instructions that morning, was there any specific mention made of watching the windows of the buildings in the area? Mr. SMITH. Not that I recall - just general - watch out, you know, for the crowd. Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you went down to the corner of Elm and Houston and took up your duty station there at about what time? Mr. SMITH. I think it was about approximately 10 o'clock and - I believe that's about right. Mr. LIEBELER. And there were two other officers there, isn't that right? Mr. SMITH. Yes; there were. Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us what their names were? Mr. SMITH. One of them was Welcome Barnett and the other boy was named Smith too, but I don't recall his initials. Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself and what did you do from the time you arrived until the time the motorcade began to approach? Mr. SMITH. I said approximately - oh, 30 to 40 feet south of the south curb of Elm Street at the east curb of Houston. I stood around there and talked with some of the people in this general vicinity and watched the crowd. Mr. LIEBELER. You stood across the street on Houston Street from the Texas School Book Depository Building? 566 Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Cater-cornered - and I show you Commission Exhibit No. 354, and it has a letter "A" marked there, and that will be approximately where you were standing; is that right? Mr. SMITH. That's about where I was. Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do from the time you stationed yourself in that position? Mr. SMITH. Well, I stood there and talked some to the crowd after they finally formed. They didn't start forming until around 11 o'clock, and looked over here at the Texas School Book Depository Building and just stood there mainly - there wasn't much to do. Mr. LIEBELER. Did you look up at the buildings that were around this intersection here at Elm Street at all? Mr. SMITH. Yes; I did. Mr. LIEBELER. As you were standing there at position "A" in Exhibit No. 354, you were in a position to observe the south windows of the Texas School Book Depository Building, were you not? Mr. SMITH. That's right Mr. LIEBELER. Did you notice any windows open up there? Mr. SMITH. I don't recall at this time whether there was any open. I'm sure there were, but I just don't remember it specifically - any specifically being open. There's quite a few people looking out the windows and what not of the various buildings. Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see any suspicious activities of any kind in any of those windows? Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I didn't. Mr. LIEBELER. What happened when the motorcade came down Main Street and turned right on Houston Street; what did you do then? Mr. SMITH. I Just stood parade rest there, you know, trying to keep the people back. I was facing the motorcade - they had come out in the street here a little bit and I just stood there. Mr. LIEBELER. So you were facing west? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. You did not go out into the intersection at any point here and help hold traffic back at that intersection, did you? Mr. SMITH. No; I did. not. Mr. LIEBELER. So, you stood there as the motorcade went by, facing west down toward the triple underpass and the motorcade turned left and started to go down Elm Street, is that right? Mr. SMITH. That's right. Mr. LIEBELER. From where you are standing, could you observe the railroad tracks that went over the triple underpass down there at the bottom of Exhibit No. 354? Mr. SMITH. I'm sure I could see them from that location, but I don't remember, you know, noticing them. I had noticed them earlier in the day, probably from that location, and I had saw some officers up there, and other than that, I don't remember seeing anything else. I do specifically remember seeing some officers on the overpass here. Mr. LIEBELER. As the motorcade turned and went down Elm Street, what happened? Mr. SMITH. I heard three shots, I guess they were shots. I thought that the first two were just firecrackers and kept my position and after the third one, I ran down the street here. Mr. LIEBELER. You ran down Elm Street? Mr. SMITH. Well, ran down Houston Street and then to Elm, and actually, I guess it was a little bit farther over than this, because after they turned the corner I couldn't see any of the cars, there were so many people standing there around the corner. Mr. LIEBELER. So, you were a little bit farther south down Elm Street than Position "A"? Mr. SMITH. Yes; possibly a little bit farther south than that - yes; I was under these windows here. " E. Smith was under the Court Record Buildings windows about 40 feet from the SE corner. This indicates 4 officers. Edgar Smith's testimony is also a problem for Altgens 7 and the 10 railroad men there. Another point here on the confusion of the placement of these Dallas Officers is Altgens 5: This is another nail in the coffin of the authenticity of the Altgens 5 photo. Edgar Smith: "Mr. LIEBELER. From where you are standing, could you observe the railroad tracks that went over the triple underpass down there at the bottom of Exhibit No. 354? Mr. SMITH. I'm sure I could see them from that location, but I don't remember, you know, noticing them. I had noticed them earlier in the day, probably from that location, and I had saw some officers up there, and other than that, I don't remember seeing anything else. I do specifically remember seeing some officers on the overpass here." This seconds Officer Barnetts statements. Oh, BTW what is Officer Foster standing on? Or, is he a giant for the standards of the time?

I see that Ray the Troell is back with more disinformation. Edgar Smith's testimony plus various media, particularly the Tina Towner film, indicate that there was a possibility of a 4th and unknown officer there. Barnett says there were 3 officers assigned but that doesn't account for who told him to move and direct traffic from the center of Houston Street as filmed by Tina Towner, at the north side of the intersection as the presidential limousine goes by. The Towner Film accounts for 3 officers at the intersection, one in the middle of Houston, another at the northeast corner of Houston and Elm, and the third at the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. Edgar Smith's testimony puts him under the windows of the Court Record Building about 30 or 40 feet south of the southeast corner. He is shown there under the windows in the Marie Muchmore film. Chris Davison's Muchmore frame hides Smith there with a motorcycle cop blocking the view. That makes 4 officers. There is not any film or photo that shows an officer at the southeast corner of the TSBD. I thought Mark Bell did show an officer there but, was later convinced by Bart Kamp with evidence from the Towner film that wasn't the case. If there was an officer there it would be the 4th and unknown officer. Liebeler position 1 is on Elm Street across from the middle of the building more toward the southwest corner of the TSBD and not the SE corner according to WC Exhibit 354. Position 9 according to WC Exhibit 354 is on Elm directly appears to be closer to the southeast corner of the TSBD and not as much in the middle of Houston Street.. The extra and unknown officer is why Liebeler used numbered positions. He wanted to confuse the issue of where Barnett and the other policemen really were. That's easy enough to fool a wanton believer in the WC nonsense that masquerades as evidence. WC Exhibit 354 shows a large gap between Houston Street and the Dal-Tex and the Court Records Building. That gap maybe the side of the building but, shadowed. If that is a shadowed side to the two buildings, then what is causing the shadow when the building should be in broad daylight. The park structures just south of Houston are not shadowed on the west side and the park structure across the Main Street is neither. The structures at the South Knoll are not shadowed on the west either. Neither is the railroad bridge shadowed on the west side. There is a shadow under the bridge. The shadow on the east side of the Annex Building is shadowed but, it is not in tune with the shadows on structures west of it. This implies that the shadowed sides of the building are artificial. Why with this overhead photo taken at a later time? The TSBD looks like its southeast corner is sitting directly in the middle of Houston Street. That's probably an illusion. Nice try, Ray. Now ask me endless questions that you know I am not going to answer. I have your disinformation nonsense blocked so I don't have to pay attention to it. This time I made an exception and may continue from time to time. But, not as a general case.

Steve Thomas has 501 Elm Street listed in a reference. This is the Dal-Tex building. The book companies were still there if I am recalling correctly in the spring and then moved to the TSBD in the summer of 1963. Adam, Thanks for posting this. I have always thought the Oswalds were doing better than minimum wage jobs with other incomes such as CIA/ONI and FBI and then his work jobs. If he had to rely on just his salary from work here is what that translates to in modern currency using your figures. $1.75 x 7.26 = $12.71 per hour = $508.40 for 40 hours $1.35 x 7.26 = $9.80 per hour = $392.00 for 40 hours $1.25 x 7.26 = $9.08 per hour = $363.20 for 40 hours In 1963: $1.75 x 40 = $70 $1.35 x 40 = $54 $1.25 x 40 = $50 That's pretty much minimum wage today. I don't trust government inflation figures so these amounts are probably higher.

Who do you believe? Things are a bit confused. What happened in the intersection of Houston and Elm Street as the presidential motorcade came through and in the aftermath of the shooting is a question of who or what you believe in that happened there? What happened on north Houston is also a matter of who or what you believe. At this point Krome believes in Officer Barnett over James Romack. There are more witnesses and here’s a list that needs to be looked at to determine what happened as the presidential motorcade passed through the intersection and shooting occurred. Because of the differences in their testimony it takes more than one witness to determine what occurred in the intersection. 50 witnesses said there was shooting in the intersection or in front of the TSBD. This is a minority position with more witnesses saying shooting happened further down Elm Street. It raises reasonable doubt on what occurred. Mrs. Earle Cabell stated that the motorcade came to a complete stop after the shooting. How long that was is unknown. Dave Weigman seconds what she said as he left his vehicle as it stopped and ran to the intersection. There was 3 police officers stationed at the intersection of Houston and Elm. There may have been an unknown officer there making 4 officers: Welcome Barnett Joe Marshall Smith Edgar Smith Unknown officer Richard Carr James Worrell James Romack As far as it goes for the people mentioned in Number 4 through Number 7, it is a matter of what you believe in or who you believe. Officer Barnett was stationed either in the middle of north Houston Street at the intersection or he was on the northeast corner of Houston and Elm Street. It hardly matters where he was since the difference is about 15 feet. He would have observed the same things from either position. Officer Joe Marshall Smith was stationed at the southeast corner of Houston and Elm or in the middle of Elm blocking west bound traffic. Officer Edgar Smith was stationed either at the southeast corner of Houston or where he said he was in his testimony. He said he was stationed under the windows at the Court Record building. The presence of an unknown officer is suggested by the stoppage of the presidential motorcade in the intersection leaving the Mayor’s Car with Mrs. Cabell. Who stopped the motorcade if: Officer Barnett ran north on Houston after hearing shots. Officers Joe Marshall and Edgar Smith ran to the Grassy Knoll after the shooting. So, who released the Mayor’s Car and the National Press Pool Car and then held the Camera Cars at the intersection for a period of time not less than 30 seconds? These events suggest the presence of a 4th Officer in the intersection. The Tina Towner film shows an officer on the southeast corner of Houston and Elm, an officer on the northeast corner of Houston and Elm, and an officer in the middle of north Houston at the intersection. If we believe Officer Edgar Smith, who stated he was stationed under the windows of the Court Records Building, then we have a 4th officer, an unknown officer. You can see the presence of these officers in other media. The problem is that these witnesses tell different stories. James Romack said he talked to an officer at the back of the TSBD. This officer was probably Welcome Barnett who doesn’t mention Romack. Barnett said: “Mr. BARNETT - Well, as best I remember, we each picked a corner and got on the corner. We were advised to stay on our corner, not to cross over to idly talk, but to stay on the corner and keep our eyes open and be ready. Mr. LIEBELER - Which corner did you station yourself at? I have a picture here of an aerial view - you can sit down - Commission Exhibit No. 354. Of course, you can recognize the intersection of Elm and Houston here in the left-hand upper portion of the picture; can you not? Mr. BARNETT - I was right here. Mr. LIEBELER - At No. 1. Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you remain there at all times from 10 o'clock until the motorcade arrived? Mr. BARNETT - Yes; well, of course, I was here until we got word to stop the traffic, and I stepped out of this position here. I had to stop traffic from Houston here and help the other officers stop it on Elm, and stop this traffic on this small street that goes in front of the Depository Building.” Barnett doesn’t say which corner he was on but, we can assume the northeast corner. He was there until he moved to the middle of Houston Street. An important question here is who directed Barnett to stop traffic? Was this the unknown officer? Was Barnett the officer that stopped the Mayor’s Car and the National Press Pool Car. Was he also the officer that held up the Camera Cars? If so, he would have missed what happened on north Houston Street for about a minute. Is that enough time for Carr’s 3 men to get into a vehicle and head north on Houston. Is this enough time to miss James Worrell run north on Houston? Barnett further says: “Mr. LIEBELER - [Marking] In the general vicinity of No. 9? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; the car passed within a few feet of me, and I was holding some people, or seeing that they stayed back, and one small boy started. I was afraid he was going to get too close, and I stopped him Mr. LIEBELER - Now the motorcade made the turn onto Elm Street from Houston Street, and you were standing at approximately in position No. 9, and you indicated before that you heard the shots fired; is that right? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you here? Mr. BARNETT - Three. Mr. LIEBELER - Was there any echo in the area from where you were standing? Mr. BARNETT - What do you mean by echo? You mean another sound besides the shots? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes. Mr. BARNETT - No; I didn't hear any echo. The whole sound echoed. The sound lingered, but as far as just two definite distinct sounds, when each shot was fired, that one sound would linger in the air, but there would be nothing else until the next shot. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see any of the shots hit the President? Mr. BARNETT - Well, when the first shot - I was looking at the President when the first shot was fired, and I thought I saw him slump down, but I am not sure, and I didn't look any more then. I thought he was ducking then.” Liebeler, as so many of the WC interrogators, confused the location of the witness by assigning numbered locations that were never fully explained. The above testimony can be read as firing occurred as the president passed by Officer Barnett. If Barnett was in the middle of Houston Street on the north side of the intersection could he see the president shot down by the Grassy Knoll. I don't think so. Here is something that most folks won’t believe and in their opinion discredits Officer Barnett’s testimony. This concerns who was on the railroad bridge at the time Altgens 7 was taken: “Mr. LIEBELER - Now when you were standing up there in position No. 9, you were in a spot where you could look right down Elm Street and see the railroad tracks down here which pass over the triple underpass? Mr. BARNETT - Yes sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody on the railroad tracks? Mr. BARNETT - One or two officers. Two officers, I believe. Mr. LIEBELER - Was there anybody else, as far as you can recall? Mr. BARNETT - That is all I saw.” How could that be if Altgens recorded Officer Foster and 10 railroad workers who all swore they were there at the time of the shooting of the president. From what is stated above can we believe what Officer Barnett says? I personally believe Officer Barnett is correct in what he said about the two officers on the railroad bridge. There are about 5 films and photos back up what he is saying. However, people don’t believe that so it falsifies Officer Barnetts testimony. Falsum in Uno, Falsus in Omnibus.

Jim, Does it matter? In reality the conspirators from the 6th floor left the building undetected. No one mentions seeing the people described on the 6th as leaving the building. Craig sees an Oswald run from the building but, correct me if I am wrong he just sees him run down hill not leave the building. Let's assume that the Armstrong / Hargrove passenger elevator theory is correct (I think so). The purpose of using the passenger elevator would be to avoid detection and observation. The best use would be to go to the basement where you could leave by the main stairs and then exit the building at the north face. If Armstrong is correct and there was an exterior exit on the west face that would be even better. You could avoid observation all together. Mission accomplished. The only problem here is was the basement exit around in 1963 and not added during one of the renovations of TSBD. This is like my assumption of fire escape doors rather than fire escape windows. A clearer proof needs to be established that there was a basement exit on the west face in 1963. Lacking that evidence and for the moment I going to accept Mr. Armstrong's statements based on his strong credibility as a thorough researcher. I have found I have few disagreements with the Harvey and Lee notion. Maybe, some minor disagreements on a photo of who a particular Oswald is or not.

I understand what you are saying. I would think that would be the same as coming from around the back (as Carr would see it) of the TSBD. What about the source information for the photo?

I meant earlier in the discussion. Carr clearly talks about a door on the side of the building. Doesn't seem to be one. Isn't the loading dock on the north face of the TSBD? Could you tell me who took this photo and what year was it? Is it part of a larger photo? I haven't seen this anywhere before and it appears to be a new thing. Has this been shown anywhere else?

I really don't see any doors at all on any floor. I guess if there was a fire they would just crawl out the window. That's really cheap. This puts the kibosh on Richard Carr and a side door unless they crawled out a window. The back of the TSBD looks better as the escape route for the conspirators. Speculation often leads to useful information. The important point is the eventual truth. I might ask if one had this type of information why wasn't it shown earlier? And, what is its source?

Good enough.

"I'm trying to help". Really? I have looked at all the photos of the TSBD, Houston Street side, I can locate and, this is the only image that has anything like a door in the glass block décor that is shown on the Elm and Houston Street sides. There are no doors shown on the 1st floor plan in Truly's or Shelley's offices. They do show the fire escape in Truly's office at the mid-window position. This is about where the door image is in this photo. There appears to be a door there. If that's just an illusion then Richard Carr's statement about men leaving from a side door on Houston Street doesn't hold water. It could be the lower part of the fire escape structure there. Others say the steps on the fire escape were not lowered. The Hughes film may show the fire escape stairs lowered to Houston Street. But, there appears to be a door there. For the time being I am going to go with a door and Richard Carr's statements. I don't mind changing my mind if clearer evidence is shown to indicate there is no door there.

Carr does mention shooting from the Grassy Knoll at the Clay Shaw trial. But, he does not say he saw two men there. FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON: Q: Just one more question, Mr. Carr. Would you just take your -- would you just take your time and in your own words describe with reference to the photomap the direc- tion of that shot which you observed furrowing on through the grass, from what area to what area, could you describe that, from what point to what point? A: The shot was fired from somewhere in here. Q: Just a minute, sir. This is going to be written down, what do you mean by "in here," from somewhere to where? A: From this direction in here that shot was fired. Q: You are indicating, to begin with, the grassy knoll area by the picket fence. Is that right? A: Yes, sir, this is the first thing that attracted by attention as I explained to you before. Q: But the direction would have been from there to where? A: To in this vicinity right here (indicating). Q: Well, if you carry the line down, would you identify some building or something on the map so that we will know precisely what you mean? A: Yes, I will say the Criminal Courts Building right here (indicating). Q: If the shot would have continued, you mean to say -- MR. DYMOND: I object to leading the witness, Your Honor. BY MR. GARRISON: Q: I will rephrase the question. If the shot had continued -- A: If the shot had not hit the grass, it would have hit the Criminal Courts Building, sir. MR. GARRISON: That's all I have. FURTHER RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DYMOND: Q: Just a couple of questions. Mr. Carr, is it your testimony that you saw this bullet furrowing through the grass? A: I saw the grass come up. Q: You saw the grass come up? A: Yes. Q: And from that you are telling us from what direction the shot came and where it would have gone if it would have kept on going. Is that right? A: Yes. " Carr's condition at the trial may have caused him to be wary of answering questions fully.

Thanks Paul, I agree. Upon seeing this I realized that I have this somewhere. I going to have to do some serious file reorganization. This still makes the best Passenger Elevator escape. Down to the basement and up the Main Stairs to leave at the rear of the building (north face). Or, if Richard Carr can be trusted out through the fire escape door from the middle office (Roy Truly?) on the 1st floor to the sidewalk on Houston Street.

It is not a basement door. It is a door into the main office on the 1st floor of the TSBD.

Once again I didn't say there was! Can you read? Or, does the fixed notions in your head the only thing you can respond too? Carr simply doesn't mention at the Shaw trial in 1969 what he had mentioned to Penn Jones earlier, in 1967. Thanks Bart Kamp. That doesn't negate what he said to Penn Jones. And, from what he said at the Clay Shaw trial it would be hard to conclude that the incident at the picket fence is meaningless. If you recall what I had posted from Crossfire, 2013 ed. Carr was under pressure during that time, life threatening pressure. He may have been careful in what he was saying. I don't have any problem with this. I have more problems with the negro/latin and the man who walked south on Houston Street and then walked up either Main or Commerce.

I didn't say there was. This would be the exit to Houston Street. BTW, What evidence do you use to say that what Carr said about two men and the picket fence is wrong and did not happen?

claviger 2/8/16 Other recipients: The entrances and exits of the Texas School Book Depository in November 22, 1963, along with the stairs and elevators, have always been an interesting sub-topic to me. IF, as many contend, there were other shooters in the TSBD, they would have had The following Walkthrough of the Texas School Book Depository was written for the March, 2008 volume of The Dealey Plaza Echo, the journal of the British Assassination Research group: Dealey Plaza UK. It ran exclusively in that journal, and many months later put, this version was put on-line by Jerry Dealey. Back issues of The Dealey Plaza Echo are available at the Mary Farrell Foundation web site: www.MaryFerrell.org. (To find this article, do a search on the term “Elevator”. "In the second glass doors from this lobby area, there is a “Will Call” counter (circle), with a half door and a latch which swings towards the entrance. To the left of this lobby area, were a set of stairs that went into the basement. There was no outside access to the basement." This is the article where I got the notion there were no exits from the basement to the outside. It fits well with the 1st floor plan.

Jim, Thought I had a basement floor plan but, don't. I've searched also and there may not be one. Somewhere, my memory is probably faulty here, I thought I had a photo showing the fire escape at sidewalk level on Houston Street. It showed if I am not wrong a basement entrance. But, this was a different fire escape structure shown that appears to be different from the 1963 version. I maybe entirely wrong and this photo shows the north face of the TSBD and the fire escape is no longer on Houston Street. Here is one of the photos of that fire escape.

I think you can see a door under the fire escape in this photo. It is very vague. It appears to be under the fire escape. This could be the entrance Carr talks about. I can't see providing the company bosses a fire escape exit without also providing one on the 1st floor.

Jim, There were two stair entrances to the basement on the first floor. Those are on the TSBD floor plan. I have read that there were no outside entrances to the basement. None is shown on this floor plan. The passenger elevator goes to the basement according to this floor plan. Where was Roy Truly's office and Bill Shelley's office on the first floor. The first floor plan doesn't list whose office is on the first floor. The only exit to Houston Street is the fire escape exit located on each floor. The offices up to the 4th floor were the location for the fire escape exit. These were located where the middle set of windows were on the east or Houston Street side. Since I have just noticed the stairs from the basement in the northwest corner of the TSBD leading to the basement I think that is the best way to leave the building for the assassins. Down the passenger elevator to the basement and out the overhead door at the northwest corner or, the door in the middle of the north face out to the loading dock. This would be in time to be seen by Richard Carr directly after the shooting. Which means the probably left the 6th floor before the shooting. They had staged their show and then left. If Carr is saying they left from an exit on the Houston Street side then it must be the fire escape located in the big office on the first floor.

Is there a side entrance on Houston Street? I dont know of any other than the fire escape. I was going to make a comment on the various versions of things Carr has said, But, I see Jim has already done that. There is more to it than just one difference.