The Handwritten Letter Compared With The Typed One, Et Cetera

[Chris Newton]

1 minute ago, Pamela Brown said:

And I don't find Hosty very creative.  He was a black+white kind of guy. Ruth was devious, and so was Marina...

I haven't seen any statements from Ruth Paine that didn't agree with the Hosty story that there only two visits, Nov. 1st and Nov. 5th, which leads me to believe that this was what they agreed on. Marina's statement in front of the Secret Service and Postal Inspector Kelley and Hosty's acknowledgement that Ruth Paine had acted as interpreter on Oct. 27th indicates Marina wasn't on the same page. I'm not absolving Marina of any shenanigans, I just don't know at the moment.

If Ruth was "playing" Hosty that might elevate Ruth to being an asset of someone like DAP.

[James DiEugenio]

Now, that last sentence is really interesting.

[James DiEugenio]

It was not Gorby who turned over the materials pertaining to the letter, it was Yeltsin to Clinton 1999.

Dobyrynin wrote to Moscow on 11/26:  "Please note Oswald's letter of November 9th, the text of which was transmitted  to Moscow over the line of nearby neighbors...

This letter was clearly a provocation: it gives the impression we had close ties with Oswald and were using him for  some purposes of our own.  It was totally unlike any other letters the embassy had previously  received from Oswald.  Nor had he ever visited our embassy himself.  The suspicion that the letter is s forgery is heightened by the fact that it was typed, whereas the otter letters the embassy had received from Oswald before were  handwritten.

One gets the definite impression that the letter was concocted by those who,judging from everything, are involved in the President's assassination.  It is possible that Oswald himself wrote the letter as it was dictated to him, in return for some promises, and then, as we know, he was simply bumped off after his usefulness had ended. 

The competent US authorities are undoubtedly aware of this letter, since the embassy's correspondence is under constant surveillance.  However, they are not making use of it for the time being.  Nor are they asking the embassy for any information about Oswald himself, perhaps they are waiting for another moment."

I think that Dobrynin was really onto something with that last statement.  IMO, LBJ and Hoover were worried about the potential of the Mexico City stuff to escalate into something really horrendous.

 

 

[Chris Newton]

18 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Now, that last sentence is really interesting.

I had considered this before because the "Kostin Letter" seems like a move that would knowingly get a rise out of some much higher level intel folks.

The Marina reveal about the visitation dates is not the only thing she spills the beans on. Hosty has always claimed he never spoke to Marina pre-assassination, that the first visit she was asleep with the kids and the second he only saw her through the door. Previous to reading that SS Report, the only time Hosty slips on this issue is once during the HSCA when he blurts out that he never threatened her and that he had Ruth tell her he was here to protect people.

 

The HSCA does an excellent job of proving Marina could not have recorded Hosty's plate on Nov. 1st or Nov. 5th.

 

[James DiEugenio]

So who did? Or did Hosty give it to Oswald?

Edited December 16, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Chris Newton]

4 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

One gets the definite impression that the letter was concocted by those who,judging from everything, are involved in the President's assassination.  It is possible that Oswald himself wrote the letter as it was dictated to him, in return for some promises, and then, as we know, he was simply bumped off after his usefulness had ended. 

I can't disagree with that, I get a very similar impression of the whole issue.

[Chris Newton]

1 minute ago, James DiEugenio said:

o who did? Or did Hosty give it to Oswald?

We only have Marina's revelation that Hosty visited on Oct. 27 and Hosty's and Ruth's agreement that he visited twice in early November to inquire "where is Oswald?". The next weekend is the "Kostin letter" 9, 10, 11 Nov. then we have a gap until Nov. 21st. Did Oswald get the plate number when he went that next week to FBI HQ?

[James DiEugenio]

From Jim Douglass (p. 233):

"Paine said she became curious about the letter in the first place because Oswald had moved something over his handwritten draft, apparently to keep her from reading it while he was typing.  Yet she then describes him as having left the draft sitting out on her desk, for days, thereby giving her the opportunity to copy it, take it, and hide it until she could give it to the FBI. According to Paine, Oswald had become oblivious of the draft he had supposedly been anxious to keep her from seeing."

 

Agreeing with you Chris.

Edited December 16, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Chris Newton]

6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Paine said she became curious about the letter in the first place because Oswald had moved something over his handwritten draft, apparently to keep her from reading it while he was typing.  Yet she then describes him as having left the draft sitting out on her desk, for days, thereby giving her the opportunity to copy it, take it, and hide it until she could give it to the FBI. According to Paine, Oswald had become oblivious of the draft he had supposedly been anxious to keep her from seeing."

From earlier in this thread it's been established that (according to Ruth) he was sitting at the dining table typing and when Ruth put a child in a nearby high chair he covered up his draft as if shielding it. Her desk secretary magically changed locations depending on which story she was reciting.

 

Yes Thanks Jim I see that. Quite the compliment

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Chris Newton

[James DiEugenio]

 Her desk secretary magically changed locations depending on which story she was reciting.

 

LOL 

[Chris Newton]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Her desk secretary magically changed locations depending on which story she was reciting.

The WC exhibit photo clearly shows it to the right of the garage door in the dining room (if you were looking into the garage). In Ruth's WC testimony it's an integral part of the "Kostin Letter" narrative that Michael and Lee swapped the locations of the desk secretary and the couch in the living room. The icing on the cake is a pesky FBI 302 where Ruth slips that the desk secretary is in the dining room.

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I haven't seen any statements from Ruth Paine that didn't agree with the Hosty story that there only two visits, Nov. 1st and Nov. 5th, which leads me to believe that this was what they agreed on. Marina's statement in front of the Secret Service and Postal Inspector Kelley and Hosty's acknowledgement that Ruth Paine had acted as interpreter on Oct. 27th indicates Marina wasn't on the same page. I'm not absolving Marina of any shenanigans, I just don't know at the moment.

If Ruth was "playing" Hosty that might elevate Ruth to being an asset of someone like DAP.

Chris,

 

page 1 of CE 830 says that there was a "pretext" interview of Ruth Paine on October 29th. You can see it here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=802&tab=page

 

It doesn't say who conducted the interview, and the fact that it says it's a Report by Special Agent Fain dated September 10, 1963 has me scratching my head.

 

Steve Thomas

[Chris Newton]

26 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

page 1 of CE 830 says that there was a "pretext" interview of Ruth Paine on October 29th. You can see it here:

 

Steve, Hosty describes doing a "pretext" interview which is basically asking neighbors about a subject, doing a credit check, etc. It's getting a "feel" for the target of the investigation before actually confronting them. I think it's SOP.

The JPH in the top left makes me think it's just page 10 of a longer Hosty report. Wonder why they did that

28 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

It doesn't say who conducted the interview, and the fact that it says it's a Report by Special Agent Fain dated September 10, 1963 has me scratching my head.

That may not be related - I think the previous page is CE 829

[Pamela Brown]

17 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I had considered this before because the "Kostin Letter" seems like a move that would knowingly get a rise out of some much higher level intel folks.

The Marina reveal about the visitation dates is not the only thing she spills the beans on. Hosty has always claimed he never spoke to Marina pre-assassination, that the first visit she was asleep with the kids and the second he only saw her through the door. Previous to reading that SS Report, the only time Hosty slips on this issue is once during the HSCA when he blurts out that he never threatened her and that he had Ruth tell her he was here to protect people.

 

The HSCA does an excellent job of proving Marina could not have recorded Hosty's plate on Nov. 1st or Nov. 5th.

 

What is your documentation that Hosty 'never spoke to Marina pre-assassination'? It is my understanding that he did speak with her.  He did not meet LHO until after his arrest.

[Pamela Brown]

15 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Chris,

 

page 1 of CE 830 says that there was a "pretext" interview of Ruth Paine on October 29th. You can see it here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=802&tab=page

 

It doesn't say who conducted the interview, and the fact that it says it's a Report by Special Agent Fain dated September 10, 1963 has me scratching my head.

 

Steve Thomas

It may have been Fain.  He was involved with the Oswalds before they went to NOLA, I think.