Attorney's file on Roger Stone, LaRouche and Russia influencing the 2016 presidential election

[James DiEugenio]

JC:  I trust that Cliff is just working through his seven stages of grief and will be back to T3 soon enough.

 

 

[Bob Ness]

4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ty, It doesn't sound like the concept of collective responsibility is necessarily one you subscribe to. But the entire problem of the suffering of misplaced people out of  Syria and throughout the Middle East can be directly attributed To GWB's invasion of Iraq and his deposing of Saddam Hussein who was a Sunni minority leader who held control over a Shia majority.

After Democratic elections, the Shia majority won and took retribution at the Sunnis forcing them  to flee their homes and in part to form radical groups such as Isis. Right now other countries in the Middle East and throughout Europe have taken it upon themselves to relocate the refugees from this calamity, and yet our immigration policy takes little to no responsibility for taking care of the problem that we have, in fact created.

Here here haha!!

3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Cliff, I think the point is that much of the news you have read is actually factually incorrect or a half-truth misleadingly presented. I.e. the Russian who set up the Trump Tower meeting did not represent the Russian government or have any influence with same, and in fact had provable ties with Glenn Simpson and Fusion GPS. Manafort and Gates met with their long-time business partner, as they had done most every day for over a decade, and rumours of his status as a "Russian military intelligence officer" seem completely daft when seen in context. The particular meme of over 100 contacts with Russian operatives requires one to understand the term “Russian operative” or “agent” as meaning anyone with a Russian passport or surname. That’s a loopy premise, to say the least. Otherwise, none of these alleged contacts had anything to do with the current Russian government. This is the left/liberal version of the Frances Fox Piven conspiracy, and just as intellectually vapid. I trust that Cliff is just working through his seven stages of grief and will be back to T3 soon enough.

Informers, agents, spies, contacts etc don't hand out business cards with Joe Schmoeski, Russian Spy written on them. They also don't sign contracts spelling out the exchange they're proposing or are in engaged in. Often times they work both sides of the street or even sell outright lies in intelligence mills (think Curve Ball). Sometimes people are unwitting, use legal and illegal covers in country, sub contract (Edwin Wilson) to other countries on and on. Your examples of Manafort and Gates meeting and being business partners with Kilimnik and the meetings with Veselnitskaya  mean nothing as these relationships are often exactly how they would appear under the same circumstances than if they were doing something wrong. Although it sounds like a "heads I win tails you lose" type of argument, that is exactly why the special counsel often has difficulty pressing a criminal case. It's also why spies are often charged for not registering as an Agent of a Foreign Government, if all else fails (sound familiar?). For you to dismiss them as being possible agents without personal knowledge is every bit as ridiculous. Do you really think potential Russian agents would be advertising on buses?

Any serious contender for the US Presidency would be approached by individuals from other countries seeking influence or to try to establish a relationship. That's not the point. In nearly every instance in this case the parties tried to deny, obfuscate and deflect rather than just come out and explain (honestly) the nature of the discussions and even the existence of same.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Bob Ness

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Cliff, I think the point is that much of the news you have read is actually factually incorrect or a half-truth misleadingly presented. I.e. the Russian who set up the Trump Tower meeting did not represent the Russian government or have any influence with same,

Russian Lawyer At Trump Tower Meeting Charged In Connection To Money Laundering Case

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683238650/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-connection-to-money-laundering-

A Russian lawyer who met with senior Trump campaign officials at Trump Tower in the summer of 2016 has been charged with obstruction of justice tied to a money laundering case in New York.

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan announced the single criminal count against the attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya, on Tuesday. The allegation in the indictment suggests she has close ties to the Russian government — something she has previously denied in the context of the special counsel's Russia investigation.</q>

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and in fact had provable ties with Glenn Simpson and Fusion GPS.

And in fact admitted she was "an informant" for the Russian government.

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Manafort and Gates met with their long-time business partner, as they had done most every day for over a decade, and rumours of his status as a "Russian military intelligence officer" seem completely daft when seen in context.

And to claim that turning over polling data is innocent is totally daft, naive, gullible.,

Quote

The particular meme of over 100 contacts with Russian operatives requires one to understand the term “Russian operative” or “agent” as meaning anyone with a Russian passport or surname. That’s a loopy premise, to say the least.

And when those Trump people lied about those meetings?

Why lie about innocent meetings?

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Otherwise, none of these alleged contacts had anything to do with the current Russian government.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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This is the left/liberal version of the Frances Fox Piven conspiracy, and just as intellectually vapid. I trust that Cliff is just working through his seven stages of grief and will be back to T3 soon enough.

Other than throw around pejoratives like "loopy," "daft" and "vapid" you don't have an argument.

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There are no “death panels” in Canada. The medical system is fine, not perfect, and it is very very popular. There are political forces who would prefer to gut the system, but such position is an electoral death sentence. 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

45 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

JC:  I trust that Cliff is just working through his seven stages of grief and will be back to T3 soon enough.

 

 

Jim D. has no answer to my critique of his Trump-apologia.

[Ron Bulman]

This thread has ranged far and wide, some of it informative.  Regarding the title of it does the Muller report mean Trump's buddy, the man with the Nixon Tattoo, the proud of being called the dirty trickster, Roger Stone get's a get out of jail free card?  All is forgiven and forgotten.  If not a pardon might be in order down the road?  Behind the scenes trickery, his investigation is dropped?

[James DiEugenio]

That is an interesting question Ron.

As I said Mueller had surveillance on Stone.  And he was goaded into indicting him by Schiff.  Its an open question if he would have done so on his own.  Since he was the last guy.

I suspect this will be another perjury rap, or process crime unless Stone hassome great scoop on Trump.  Which I doubt since Mueller's surveillance should have revealed it.

But right now, as Peter Strzok said, there does not seem to be a there there.

In fact, as I said, look out for Graham and his HRC  email inquiry.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

14 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

As I said Mueller had surveillance on Stone.  And he was goaded into indicting him by Schiff. 

Trump Delusion Syndrome hits a new high.

[James DiEugenio]

God, this gives me a headache.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-attacks-democrats-michigan-rally_n_5c9d6325e4b00ba632799519

 

What kind of country is this that makes us choose between HRC and this guy?

When I was growing up we had JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcolm X.

And they killed them all.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Cliff Varnell]

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

God, this gives me a headache.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-attacks-democrats-michigan-rally_n_5c9d6325e4b00ba632799519

 

What kind of country is this that makes us choose between HRC and this guy?

When I was growing up we had JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcolm X.

And they killed them all.

 

Unbelievable.

[Bob Ness]

3 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

 

Exactly Schiff. Watch how fast the subject gets changed to HRC whenever this gets pointed out.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Bob Ness
clarity...

[Ron Bulman]

There was a planned protest today in Michigan today reported a day or two ago a few blocks from the t rally today which is widely reported.  This is what you get in a search.  Operation Mockingbird in action.

 https://www.bing.com/search?q=trump+michigan+protest&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=7bb947357301434e879bddc3a86abc77&sp=-1&pq=trump+michigan+protest&sc=3-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=7bb947357301434e879bddc3a86abc77

[Ron Bulman]

Reverse the search term to Michigan trump protest and you get this old stuff.  But the MSM didn't cover whatever dissention a couple of blocks away today.  Not good publicity for DeVos and company.

 https://www.bing.com/search?q=michigan+trump+protest&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=7bb947357301434e879bddc3a86abc77&sp=-1&pq=michigan+trump+protest&sc=0-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=7bb947357301434e879bddc3a86abc77

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Bob Ness said:

Exactly. Whadya think? Duplicitous? Watch how fast the subject gets changed to HRC whenever this gets pointed out.

Exactly?  Schiff's a Hero for saying that's not ok.  

[Sandy Larsen]

13 hours ago, Ty Carpenter said:

13 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

How many times have you sucked off the government teat, Ty?

What are you asking? I don't know how you would quantify that. We all use services provided by the government every day. What I am asking is, how much does your plan actually cost? The money is not there to subsidize everybody. So your healthcare plan is not sustainable. 

 

(That is what the far right has been saying about Social Security and Medicare for decades . And they're always proven wrong.)

Every developed country in the world besides America has a universal healthcare system, meaning that every citizen is insured. What makes America special in that it can't also have a sustainable universal healthcare system?

P.S.  So far Obamacare has been sustainable. Though Republicans are attempting to make it unsustainable by eliminating the individual mandate. So if it does fail, it will be because of the Republicans.