Sandy Larsen Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: As the article in The Hill points out, the Democrats can go view the fully unredacted report (except for the Grand Jury testimony, which must stay unredacted under the law.) Β The "fully unredacted" Mueller report Barr made available to Congress is only partially unredacted. Only six Democrat congressmen are allowed to view it. (Same thing with Republican congressmen.) After viewing it, they are not allowed to discuss it with other members of Congress. (Source) Barr is acting as Trump's attorney, not America's. Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Assertions of foreign meddling in a democratic sovereign process are serious and should bring the attention ofΒ Intelligence services. Certainly that happened in the US, as can be read in the Intelligence Community Assessment published in January 2017. Tο»Ώhat Assessment asserted a wide-ranging Russian election meddling operation, although the factual basis for this appeared to rely on the forensic work of a private company hired by the DNC which cannot be verified. The Assessment Β FWIW.... I watched a town-hall meeting between James Comey and Anderson Cooper today. The Steele Dossier came up and Comey said that much of it had checked out. He specifically said that no evidence was found on the alleged hooker-golden-shower incident. But after saying that he said that it couldn't be ruled out. Just that without evidence it must be considered a false charge. Β Edited May 10, 2019 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Β The "fully unredacted" Mueller report Barr made available to Congress is only partially unredacted. Only six Democrat congressmen are allowed to view it. (Same thing with Republican congressmen.) After viewing it, they are not allowed to discuss it with other members of Congress. (Source) Barr is acting as Trump's attorney, not America's. Β Exactly Robert should read his article again. It's not completely unredacted. The Democrats are not viewing the partially redacted version because they'reΒ holding out for the unredacted version. It's politics saying "we won't give in to your incrementalism , we want the whole thing." There's absolutely nothing a trump supporter won't forgive Trump for. They envyΒ Trump that he could get away with it for all these years. They vicariously live through Trump the naughtiest lives they never had the guts to live. Edited May 10, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said: There's absolutely nothing a trump supporter won't forgive Trump for. They envyΒ Trump that he could get away with it for all these years. They vicariously live through Trump the naughtiest lives they never had the guts to live. Β Yeah, and the thing that strikes me the oddest is that they are not ashamed of any of it. I'll never forget the crowd laughing as Trump mocked attempted rape victim Christine Blase Ford. Maybe Hillary was right after all with her deplorables remark. Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Steele wanted his dossier to come out before the election at the bequest of his employers. The FBI and State Department knew this and deliberately covered it up. Β https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/is-it-time-to-investigate-the-investigatorsΒ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 The Steele dossier is getting a bit of a rehabilitation in advance of the second leg of this saga, when it will be publicly acknowledged that the dossier provided much of the evidence for the Carter Page FISA application. This matter, and related information, embodies the truly shocking abuse and use of politicized Intelligence - wrapped into the vast surveillance powers which have been assembled. This story first began bubbling to the surface in the late autumn of 2017. I am truly astonished that Russiagate continued to be pushed so hard by the politicians and media, even as the bombshell awaited. Comey has said various things regarding the dossier, ranging from it was largely verified to it is unverified and salacious. So he is not a reliable source of information on this matter. The βSecond Look at the Steele Dossierβ relies largely on an argument of βtrust us, weβre honourable personsβ. The author makes much of a claim that there was no way in June 2016 for Steele to have anticipated Russian hackers, so he must have received good informationβ¦except that βRussian Government Hackers Penetrate DNCβ was headline news in mid-June: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/russian-hackers-dnc-trump.html The author claims portions of the Steele dossier were confirmed by the reporting of Michael Issikof - when it is fairly established that Issikofβs sources were feeding him information direct from the dossier itself. The author weakly acknowledges that, and then claims the officials responsible for these media leaks were βconfidentβ in the since discredited information, although in 2016 they had made no attempt to verify the information they were deliberately leaking to the media. This is textbook stovepiping. The author downplays the dossierβs generation as opposition research, implying it was a counter-intelligence product, but does not discuss how it was that the FBI came to connect with it in the first place. Nor does he note that Muellerβs extensive investigation could not confirm much of any of it.Β All of the various threads led nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Β βRussian Government Hackers Penetrate DNCβ was headline news in mid-June: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/russian-hackers-dnc-trump.html You don't understand the concept of "news cycle." The Russia hacking story appeared during the June 14-15 news cycles, and then again in the July 24-25 news cycles. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=russia+hack+dnc+msnbc+2016 If the intel community was so concerned about Trump's pro-Russian sentiments why such scanty coverage? Cable news 24/11 bombarded Hillary Clinton in the closing days of the rigged 2016 election. Nobody gives a rat's ass about George P,Β Carter P, or hooker pee. Russiagate started with Trump hiring Michael Flynn.Β The rest is a distraction the Trump loyalists pimp without shame. Edited May 10, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Comey has said various things regarding the dossier, ranging from it was largely verified to it is unverified and salacious. So he is not a reliable source of information on this matter. Β I don't think so Jeff. Comey never said the the dossier was "unverified and salacious." He said that parts of the dossier were. Which is why Politifact ruled your (and Devin Nunes') claim to be Half True. Nunes memo twists James Comey's words on Steele dossier - Politifact Saying that parts of the dossier are unverified (and salacious) is wholly consistent with saying that much of it is verified. So these statements cannot be used to question Comey's reliability. Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Cliff - you yourself righteously insisted on this very thread (Mar 22) that Russiagate began with Β Papadopoulos-Downer in late July. Sandy, Iβll stand corrected on ComeyβsΒ statement. But the results of the intensive/extensive investigation do not support any of the conspiratorial claims in the dossier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: Cliff - you yourself righteously insisted on this very thread (Mar 22) that Russiagate began with Β Papadopoulos-Downer in late July. That's when the FBI investigation into Russian ties to the Trump campaign began, yes, but since we both agree that those investigations (Papa/Page/pee) went nowhere we have to find the true impetus of Russiagate elsewhere. Trump hired Michael Flynn as National Security Advisor and that turned the intel community against him.Β Trump hired Flynn; Flynn lied to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian amb.; Trump asked Comey to drop the Flynn matter; when Comey wouldn't play ball with Trump and declare him not a subject of the investigation, Trump fired him; the Mueller investigation was formed. You keep going on and on about matters of little importance. You claim there was "hysterical freakout" over Russian hacking but there were only two news cycles that covered it over the last 5 months of the election, nothing over the last 70-odd days. You claim intel had it in for Trump, even though it was the FBI who made the Big Push on his behalf. And you maintain a certain self-righteousness thru it all. Crazy times, yes... Β Edited May 10, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said: Flynn does not get hired by Trump until after the election. Correct.Β And all the investigations preceding the election went no where.Β There would have been nothing to come of if Trump hadn't hired Flynn. That was the true beginning of RussiaGate since that's what directly led to the Mueller investigation. Edited May 10, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Trump hired Michael Flynn as National Security Advisor and that turned the intel community against him.Β Trump hired Flynn; Flynn lied to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian amb.; Trump asked Comey to drop the Flynn matter; when Comey wouldn't play ball with Trump and declare him not a subject of the investigation, Trump fired him; the Mueller investigation was formed... You claim there was "hysterical freakout" over Russian hacking but there were only two news cycles that covered it over the last 5 months of the election, nothing over the last 70-odd days... You claim intel had it in for Trump, even though it was the FBI who made the Big Push on his behalf... Β Β How then would you explain the determined efforts by FBI and Steele to leak to theΒ mediaΒ information from the Steele dossier in August and September 2016? Β Use of the dossier to generate the successful FISA warrant in 2016? The contents of the ICA which were assembled in December 2016? The activityΒ predates Flynn, and a Mueller type investigation was in the cards since the ICA was published in January 2017, not needing a pretext. There has been a hysterical freak out over Trump's alleged conspiracy with the Russian government to swing the 2016 US election to Trump. It is still ongoing and it has consumed the American media since early January 2017. We all just lived through and witnessed it, the spectacle has been fairly unprecedented.Β Your theory of the FBI relies on a bi-polar Comey favouring Clinton, then acting to ruin her, then turning against Trump. I don't think he operated with such animus, and was rather reacting to events as they occurred. The facts imply Comey acted in a limited hangout capacity without particular malice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: How then would you explain the determined efforts by FBI and Steele to leak to theΒ mediaΒ information from the Steele dossier in August and September 2016? And that information was leaked where? 30 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Β Β Use of the dossier to generate the successful FISA warrant in 2016? The contents of the ICA which were assembled in December 2016? The activityΒ predates Flynn, and a Mueller type investigation was in the cards since the ICA was published in January 2017, not needing a pretext. Β And you absolutely refuse to assign any blame of this on Trump's own behavior.Β 30 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Your theory of the FBI relies on a bi-polar Comey favouring Clinton, then acting to ruin her, then turning against Trump. Correct.Β That's exactly what happened.Β Comey and the FBI favored Trump, but after the election they turned on him when Flynn was appointed National Security Advisor. 30 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Β I don't think he operated with such animus, and was rather reacting to events as they occurred. The facts imply Comey acted in a limited hangout capacity without particular malice. No, the facts prove that the FBI had tremendous animus towards Clinton. You can try to re-write history all you want, in the service of a fascist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: And that information was leaked where? And you absolutely refuse to assign any blame of this on Trump's own behavior.Β Correct.Β That's exactly what happened.Β Comey and the FBI favored Trump, but after the election they turned on him when Flynn was appointed National Security Advisor. No, the facts prove that the FBI had tremendous animus towards Clinton. You can try to re-write history all you want, in the service of a fascist... Donβt quite know how you find the fortitude to argue with Trumper propagandists.Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 πππ 44 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Donβt quite know how you find the fortitude to argue with Trumper propagandists.Β Keeps me off the streets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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