Cliff Varnell Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/15/2018 at 5:05 PM, Michael Clark said: On 7/14/2018 at 7:50 PM, Evan Marshall said: It's so easy and gratifying to make assumptions that confirm our core beliefs but without evidence we're simply whistling pass the grave yard The First Day Evidence proves JFK was murdered in a military style ambush. That's the high water mark of certainty in the case. The trick is to produce speculation which hews as closely to the evidence as possible, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I know I've seen a little clearer picture or at least larger of umbrella man and radio man. If Hargraves is supposed to be radio man as David B suggests I guess there is a resemblance in the fuzzy picture I found. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=ItV5DkjR&id=32926BC56EC75B3D01C87EEF306BF6693E3E1981&thid=OIP.ItV5DkjRf2NRjlibEkqBhQHaEK&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fresources0.news.com.au%2fimages%2f2013%2f11%2f22%2f1226765%2f819612-umbrellaman.jpg&exph=366&expw=650&q=umbrella+man+jfk&simid=608004665319886589&selectedIndex=58&qpvt=umbrella+man+jfk&ajaxhist=0 http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhargraves.htm If Vidal was umbrella man he'd grown his hair out or was wearing a beatles wig compared to previous pictures. Then again somebody has speculated radio man was Gordon Novel... https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Oa6TmAtj&id=78DE86CB2A5060202DCDD6D40F5AD4A344AFA59E&thid=OIP.Oa6TmAtjP-6lrY3RACm8IQHaI_&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.alienscientist.com%2fjfk%2fta_tum2.jpg&exph=550&expw=453&q=umbrella+man+jfk&simid=607998806998255159&selectedIndex=186&ajaxhist=0 Are we just whistling Dixie here, by the graveyard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Does anyone have the source for the claim I've seen here and there of the importing of a S.E Asian U.S Sniper for the hit? I remember listening to a Doug Campbell audio regarding this point but he tied it to Westbrook of the DPD being in charge of personnel, easily being able to recruit such a sniper into the DPD and having said sniper vanish without a trace due to his (Westbrook's) job as head of personnel. Campbell was speculating of course but it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: Are we just whistling Dixie here, by the graveyard? Ron, I gotta take exception to "Umbrella Man." Rosemary Willis corroborated Louis Witt's account -- he was concentrating on getting the umbrella open and didn't see the limo pass. All he cared about was brandishing that umbrella. I think DCM sat down next to him to find out what the hell he was about. Maybe it's just me, but if I were involved in a murder I wouldn't hang out at the scene of the crime. Free Louis Witt! Edited July 20, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: I know I've seen a little clearer picture or at least larger of umbrella man and radio man. If Hargraves is supposed to be radio man as David B suggests I guess there is a resemblance in the fuzzy picture I found. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=ItV5DkjR&id=32926BC56EC75B3D01C87EEF306BF6693E3E1981&thid=OIP.ItV5DkjRf2NRjlibEkqBhQHaEK&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fresources0.news.com.au%2fimages%2f2013%2f11%2f22%2f1226765%2f819612-umbrellaman.jpg&exph=366&expw=650&q=umbrella+man+jfk&simid=608004665319886589&selectedIndex=58&qpvt=umbrella+man+jfk&ajaxhist=0 http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhargraves.htm If Vidal was umbrella man he'd grown his hair out or was wearing a beatles wig compared to previous pictures. Then again somebody has speculated radio man was Gordon Novel... https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Oa6TmAtj&id=78DE86CB2A5060202DCDD6D40F5AD4A344AFA59E&thid=OIP.Oa6TmAtjP-6lrY3RACm8IQHaI_&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.alienscientist.com%2fjfk%2fta_tum2.jpg&exph=550&expw=453&q=umbrella+man+jfk&simid=607998806998255159&selectedIndex=186&ajaxhist=0 Are we just whistling Dixie here, by the graveyard? Sorry Michael and Ron. I meant Vidal was WITH umbrella man. (Best Trumpian correction 🙂 ) The identification that Vidal was the radio man/Cuban guy came from James Richards. He had contacted Vidal's family and they confirmed that it was Felipe that was there. Most of the pictures you see of Vidal floating around were from James Richards who got them from Vidal's family members. Vidal's good friend Hargraves was sitting next to him on the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 18 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: Dave do you mean the tall dark completed man? (aka “radio man”)? I definitely suspect dark complected man is Santiago but it’s definitely (well....I’d like to think that it’s educated lol...) speculation based on bits and pieces of evidence. B.A. I did indeed. I fixed the post. HSCA doc on Hargraves. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/docid-32242884.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: Does anyone have the source for the claim I've seen here and there of the importing of a S.E Asian U.S Sniper for the hit? I remember listening to a Doug Campbell audio regarding this point but he tied it to Westbrook of the DPD being in charge of personnel, easily being able to recruit such a sniper into the DPD and having said sniper vanish without a trace due to his (Westbrook's) job as head of personnel. Campbell was speculating of course but it was interesting. I don’t but I want to know the source too. Evan Marshall is the one on the forum who made the statement, claiming an inside source of some kind. Interesting tidbit on Westbrook. Again for me this brings up the unanswered mystery as to what the 488th Military Intelligence Unit was all about. If my memory is accurate Westbrook, Lumpkin, and Gannaway were all part of that unit, commanded by Colonel Jack Crichton. Also in that unit, according to his autobiographical work Brandy - Portrait of an Intelligence Officer, was Colonel Frank Brandstetter, who reported to Army Chief of Staff Intelligence (ACSI) for two decades beginning in 1956. I mention all this again because there is a direct link between Westbrook and Army Intelligence. Also closely connected to ACSI was General Lansdale, according to Prouty, who would know. I have to wonder if Colonel Lucien Conein was likewise connected. Seems to me he would be the likely source for a SE Asian military sniper. Edited July 21, 2018 by Paul Brancato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, David Boylan said: Sorry Michael and Ron. I meant Vidal was WITH umbrella man. (Best Trumpian correction 🙂 ) The identification that Vidal was the radio man/Cuban guy came from James Richards. He had contacted Vidal's family and they confirmed that it was Felipe that was there. Most of the pictures you see of Vidal floating around were from James Richards who got them from Vidal's family members. Vidal's good friend Hargraves was sitting next to him on the curb. Was umbrella man a shooter or a spotter...or what? Spotters would have been paired with shooters, right? UM was to Kennedy's right but the trajectory suggested by the throat wound evidence was slightly left to right. Lots of folks want to hang Louis Witt, but for the life of me I can't figure out what for... Edited July 21, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 6 hours ago, David Boylan said: Sorry Michael and Ron. I meant Vidal was WITH umbrella man. (Best Trumpian correction 🙂 ) The identification that Vidal was the radio man/Cuban guy came from James Richards. He had contacted Vidal's family and they confirmed that it was Felipe that was there. Most of the pictures you see of Vidal floating around were from James Richards who got them from Vidal's family members. Vidal's good friend Hargraves was sitting next to him on the curb. David, Here's a CIA document on Felipe Vidal Santiago. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44232&search=Felipe_Vidal+Santiago#relPageId=1&tab=page Page 6 has a physical description. He was born in 1926. In 1963, he would have been 37 years old. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Cliff, I believe umbrella man was a spotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Chuck Schwartz said: Cliff, I believe umbrella man was a spotter. Where was the shooter he was spotting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Where was the shooter he was spotting for? Cliff - I recall you suggesting at some point that the umbrella might be a high tech weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Just now, Paul Brancato said: Cliff - I recall you suggesting at some point that the umbrella might be a high tech weapon. Not me, Paul. The trajectory doesn't work given UM's position to the right. Rosemary Willis described UM as a "conspicuous" person who appeared more interested in opening his umbrella than watching the motorcade. Louis Witt said the same thing. Free Witt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 So where was the flechette weapon located in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said: So where was the flechette weapon located in your opinion? My best guess is Black Dog Man, which would have required the dart to deflect after hitting the right side of the larynx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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