David Josephs Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Thx Jim... in the records she is 1 year younger than “Harvey” Oswald. I wish I knew what the lines thru children’s names meant.... btw... the glasses, no glasses ... Caretaker vs Lee’s mom pretty well settles it.... did a comparison of their teeth to... no match there either... Also, PIC has the years messed up... in summer ‘45 he claims they are in Dallas... except Lee, Marge and Edwin drive to Boston early, like July... while Pic claims they dropped them off on their way in September... 46 is no better.... and 47-49 is just a hot mess.... On 12/19/2019 at 11:41 AM, Paul Jolliffe said: The 1949 Maguerite Ekdahl/Oswald/Ekdahl name thing is strange. In 49... FWIW, in 45 when applying to the school, in July, she signs her name Oswald, 2 months after getting married... in October on Worth Hotel stationary she talks of their new address on GRANDBURY (sic) Rd and signs it Ekdahl.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I have a bit of news to report. I have been in contact with Russ Geck through linked-in.com. This is the extent of our communications to this point. It seems that John Gardos did go with Emil and Grace to Hungary in 1950. My response was : I am waiting for a response from Russ Geck. There's a typo on the date of the call. Please excuse. Edited December 21, 2019 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jolliffe Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 49 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Thx Jim... in the records she is 1 year younger than “Harvey” Oswald. I wish I knew what the lines thru children’s names meant.... btw... the glasses, no glasses ... Caretaker vs Lee’s mom pretty well settles it.... did a comparison of their teeth to... no match there either... Also, PIC has the years messed up... in summer ‘45 he claims they are in Dallas... except Lee, Marge and Edwin drive to Boston early, like July... while Pic claims they dropped them off on their way in September... 46 is no better.... and 47-49 is just a hot mess.... In 49... FWIW, in 45 when applying to the school, in July, she signs her name Oswald, 2 months after getting married... in October on Worth Hotel stationary she talks of their new address on GRANDBURY (sic) Rd and signs it Ekdahl.... David, WC Exhibit 1874 is evidence that the real Marguerite and little Lee did indeed live at 4801 Victor Street in Dallas in 1944 and 1945. I suspect they were there until Marguerite moved to Fort Worth in October of 1945. Lee, who apparently had never attended any school before, then started at Benbrook Elementary on October 31, 1945, which would seem to square with a family trip to Boston and Mississippi in September of 1945, as John Pic, Jr. said. What makes you suspect they were not living on Victor in 1944 and 1945? In any event, these movements would seem to be of the real Lee Oswald, his real brothers, the real Marguerite and her husband, Edwin A. Ekdahl. One minor question: when Marguerite wrote that Robert had last attended Crockett Elementary in Dallas, surely it could not have been located 16. 2 miles away from 4801 Victor in 1945, could it? (Today's Crockett is 16.2 miles away, according to Google Maps.) https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1874.pdf What I don't understand is why a thrice-married woman, fresh off a bitter divorce in which she successfully petitioned the judge to "restore" her name (Marguerite C. Oswald) to her, would still use the name "Ekdahl" as late as 1949. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jolliffe Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Butler said: I have a bit of news to report. I have been in contact with Russ Geck through linked-in.com. This is the extent of our communications to this point. It seems that John Gardos did go with Emil and Grace to Hungary in 1950. My response was : I am waiting for a response from Russ Geck. There's a typo on the date of the call. Please excuse. John, Respectfully, I don't think demanding that he provide "proof" that John Gardos was still very much alive for decades is going to work out well. Russ Geck was kind enough to respond truthfully to a stranger. That's good enough for us. However, he might still be able to clear up the following (which I have always suspected was much closer to the heart of the matter anyway): Ask him if he has any reason to believe that Emil Gardos, Grace Gardos, or Fred Blair could have been temporary foster caretakers in 1945 -47 for any small children refugees from Eastern Europe. Were they at all the type of people who might have been especially concerned with the plight of refugee orphans after WWII? Did they have any connection to any organizations that might have had such hunanitarian interests? When Emil and Grace (and presumably young John) were all living in Yorkville, did any of Emil's activities involve anything that led our mysterious woman caller to conclude (erroneously) that Emil was the biological parent of a Russian-speaking little boy from Europe? Did Fred Blair live or visit Yorkville at any time in the 1940"s? Do Russ Geck or his wife have any information about Louis Weinstock? Edited December 21, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) Paul, From what I read in Russ Geck's reply he seemed an honest, straight forward, and direct guy. I don't think I was too direct, but recognize I may have been. My point was to say folks on the forum generally demand more proof then what someone says. And, if he would then he could supply more info. Recognizing at the same time if he didn't then that was fine also. Before I go any further, I'll wait for a response from him. Edited December 21, 2019 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jolliffe Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, John Butler said: Paul, From what I read in Russ Geck's reply he seemed an honest, straight forward, and direct guy. I don't think I was too direct, but recognize I may have been. My point was to say folks on the forum generally demand more proof then what someone says. And, if he would then he could supply more info. Recognizing at the same time if he didn't then that was fine also. Before I go any further, I'll wait for a response from him. John, I doubt you'll hear from him again, but I hope I am wrong. If, by some miracle, he does respond then ask him if he has any information about any connection, no matter how tenuous or brief, between Emil Gardos and/or Grace Gardos and/or Fred Blair and any small boy (besides his own biological son John) in Yorkville in the 1940's. Could any of them have been a caretaker, a foster parent, a temporary custodian, an attendant, etc. to provide refuge for any little boy or boys for any duration in the 1940's? We have excellent reasons to believe there was something to the mysterious woman's phone call. Russ's honest response should satisfy us that John Gardos was NOT our "Oswald." Yet our "Oswald" very likely was indeed in the company of these people in Yorkville for a bit in the 1940's. If he were not, then the FBI and the Warren Commission would have addressed that in their "Speculation and Rumors" section of the Warren Report 55 years ago. Instead, that phone call was hot-potatoed immediately right up to the top of the FBI food chain. And then it was buried forever, until Congress changed the law in the 1990's and compelled its declassification. No, there was DEFINITELY something to that call. And Russ Geck may be our last, best hope of getting at the truth. Edited December 22, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said: John, I doubt you'll hear from him again, but I hope I am wrong. If, by some miracle, he does respond then ask him if he has any information about any connection, no matter how tenuous or brief, between Emil Gardos and/or Grace Gardos and/or Fred Blair and any small boy (besides his own biological son John) in Yorkville in the 1940's. Could any of them have been a caretaker, a foster parent, a temporary custodian, an attendant, etc. to provide refuge for any little boy or boys for any duration in the 1940's? We have excellent reasons to believe there was something to the mysterious woman's phone call. Russ's honest response should satisfy us that John Gardos was NOT our "Oswald." Yet our "Oswald" very likely was indeed in the company of these people in Yorkville for a bit in the 1940's. If he were not, then the FBI and the Warren Commission would have addressed that in their "Speculation and Rumors" section of the Warren Report 55 years ago. Instead, that phone call was hot-potatoed immediately right up to the top of the FBI food chain. And then it was buried forever, until Congress changed the law in the 1990's and compelled its declassification. No, there was DEFINITELY something to that call. And Russ Geck may be our last, best hope of getting at the truth. Paul, You may very well be right. Russ Geck began a genealogy request in 2012 which was answered by several members of the Blair family and then nothing else after that. One of the responses said that the Blair family lost contact with Grace sometime during the 1960s and had not heard anything from her in 50 years. They were glad to hear from him and suggested familysearch.org as a place to do genealogy. If Russ Geck does not answer the last linked-in message then I don't know what that would mean. I certainly hope Russ replies. I have no intentions other than the truth. But, think about that for a moment. Out of the blue some guy says your wife's grandfather may be the most infamous assassin in American History. Wouldn't that set you back a bit. Paul, I agree with your points 100%. We'll have to wait and see. Maybe Russ will help us out. I think I sent him enough information to do some internet research on what we have been doing. It may take him a while to wade through all of the info we have been accumulating over the years. Particularly, if he is coming to this situation cold. I'll keep you informed. It is a little to early to speculate lacking information. I did ask Russ Geck to provide more information and gave him a valid reason why it was needed. Edited December 22, 2019 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kowalski Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) On 12/21/2019 at 5:48 PM, John Butler said: From what I read in Russ Geck's reply he seemed an honest, straight forward, and direct guy. I don't think I was too direct, but recognize I may have been. My point was to say folks on the forum generally demand more proof then what someone says. And, if he would then he could supply more info. Recognizing at the same time if he didn't then that was fine also. Before I go any further, I'll wait for a response from him. John B. Thank you for contacting Russ Geck. That was good work on your part. If he gets back to you with details about John Gardos he can be eliminated as being Harvey. Edited December 23, 2019 by John Kowalski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, John Kowalski said: John B. Thank you for contacting Russ Geck. That was good work on your part. If he gets back to you with details about John Gardos he can be eliminated as being Harvey. Thanks John K, I'm still waiting. If I hear nothing in the next several days it might be time to reassess things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 8:20 AM, Paul Jolliffe said: David, WC Exhibit 1874 is evidence that the real Marguerite and little Lee did indeed live at 4801 Victor Street in Dallas in 1944 and 1945. I suspect they were there until Marguerite moved to Fort Worth in October of 1945. Lee, who apparently had never attended any school before, then started at Benbrook Elementary on October 31, 1945, which would seem to square with a family trip to Boston and Mississippi in September of 1945, as John Pic, Jr. said. What makes you suspect they were not living on Victor in 1944 and 1945?Not the Victor street address I have a problem with Paul... John E testifies that in the summer of '45 they "STAYED IN DALLAS" (see below image for quoted Q&A) Mr. JENNER - Did he then move into the 4801 Victor Place?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; she took a short honeymoon for a day or two and came back and moved in.Mr. JENNER - In the summer of 1945 did you and Robert continue on at--through that summer in Dallas?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.Mr. JENNER - That following September, however, you transferred to some other school; did you not?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; and we were aware of this school before the school session ended in 1945. I knew before we left Davy Crockett we were going.Mr. JENNER - What was the name of that?Mr. PIC - In September 1945, sir, Robert and I entered Chamberlain-Hunt Academy, military school for boys, Port Gibson, Miss. John wrote that the Victor house is sold June 29, 1945.... If they stayed in Dallas thru September and then late registered Lee... Where did they stay in Dallas? H&L doesn't say... furthermore it is MARGUERITE EKDAHL listed in February 1946 for the mastoidectomy yet it is MARGARET OSWALD with a Mr. "ALLEN" who is involved in July 1948... Lee also being from BENBROOK. (The Bell FBI report on the right is in direct contradiction to what BELL says she said. She knew it was 1947 as the had just finished building their house when a woman and her son moved into 101 San Saba, across the street) in 1948 they moved from 8th street to Willing st and finally to 7408 Ewing... I think it's possible that EKDAHL OWNED 7408 EWING all along.... but I need to look further DJ "Allen 5" is dated Oct 1945 from the WORTH HOTEL telling Chamberlain-Hunt their new address on GRANDBURY (sic) Rd Route 5... I checked and the writing appears the same as other, earlier docs with her signature... Does this letter/note look like it had been folded and mailed? Not to me it doesn't.... The TARRANT COUNTY books on students for Ft Worth does not show any OSWALDS for either the 44-45 year or 45-46.... in 1947-48 we get that Nancy Lee and HARVEY with Mrs. Ekdahl... On 12/21/2019 at 8:20 AM, Paul Jolliffe said: In any event, these movements would seem to be of the real Lee Oswald, his real brothers, the real Marguerite and her husband, Edwin A. Ekdahl. One minor question: when Marguerite wrote that Robert had last attended Crockett Elementary in Dallas, surely it could not have been located 16. 2 miles away from 4801 Victor in 1945, could it? (Today's Crockett is 16.2 miles away, according to Google Maps.) David Crockett School (replaced by Ignacio Zaragoza Elementary in 1990; Ignacio is a 5 min walk from Victor... yet notice there is no 4801 Victor... 4809 is the last house on that street with the corner house facing N. PRAIRIE with a driveway onto N. PRAIRIE, the next block is 4700.... https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7960598,-96.7672961,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s97-hA67ZHmjL23rxDsqoyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1874.pdf What I don't understand is why a thrice-married woman, fresh off a bitter divorce in which she successfully petitioned the judge to "restore" her name (Marguerite C. Oswald) to her, would still use the name "Ekdahl" as late as 1949. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jolliffe Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 4 hours ago, David Josephs said: Mr. JENNER - Did he then move into the 4801 Victor Place?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; she took a short honeymoon for a day or two and came back and moved in.Mr. JENNER - In the summer of 1945 did you and Robert continue on at--through that summer in Dallas?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.Mr. JENNER - That following September, however, you transferred to some other school; did you not?Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; and we were aware of this school before the school session ended in 1945. I knew before we left Davy Crockett we were going.Mr. JENNER - What was the name of that?Mr. PIC - In September 1945, sir, Robert and I entered Chamberlain-Hunt Academy, military school for boys, Port Gibson, Miss. John wrote that the Victor house is sold June 29, 1945.... If they stayed in Dallas thru September and then late registered Lee... Where did they stay in Dallas? H&L doesn't say... furthermore it is MARGUERITE EKDAHL listed in February 1946 for the mastoidectomy yet it is MARGARET OSWALD with a Mr. "ALLEN" who is involved in July 1948... Lee also being from BENBROOK. (The Bell FBI report on the right is in direct contradiction to what BELL says she said. She knew it was 1947 as the had just finished building their house when a woman and her son moved into 101 San Saba, across the street) in 1948 they moved from 8th street to Willing st and finally to 7408 Ewing... I think it's possible that EKDAHL OWNED 7408 EWING all along.... but I need to look further DJ "Allen 5" is dated Oct 1945 from the WORTH HOTEL telling Chamberlain-Hunt their new address on GRANDBURY (sic) Rd Route 5... I checked and the writing appears the same as other, earlier docs with her signature... Does this letter/note look like it had been folded and mailed? Not to me it doesn't.... The TARRANT COUNTY books on students for Ft Worth does not show any OSWALDS for either the 44-45 year or 45-46.... in 1947-48 we get that Nancy Lee and HARVEY with Mrs. Ekdahl... David, Yes, I noticed that 4801 Victor does not exist any longer. The corner lot looks as if it once contained a house, and there is a driveway to nowhere, but, as you noted, that driveway is on N. Prairie. However, like the Linnie Mae Randle house on 5th Street in Irving, which also had a side driveway to a different street (Westbrook), 4801 Victor probably faced Victor and had a driveway that ran sideways to N. Prairie. Thanks for clarifying the original Crockett school name change. Could Marguerite, her three sons and her new husband have lived in the Victor house after it sold in late June for the better part of three months? That seems implausible - I know sellers don't necessarily vacate on the closing date, but three months seems a long time. Did they slide into the Worth Hotel for an extended stay shortly after the June 29 sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 5:48 PM, John Butler said: Paul, From what I read in Russ Geck's reply he seemed an honest, straight forward, and direct guy. I don't think I was too direct, but recognize I may have been. My point was to say folks on the forum generally demand more proof then what someone says. And, if he would then he could supply more info. Recognizing at the same time if he didn't then that was fine also. Before I go any further, I'll wait for a response from him. Just sent another note to Russ Geck. I hope he responds. If not I am going to assume that the information provided by him has not been verified. There are too many things in the Gardos story and the story in Hungary that makes one suspicious of what is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Martinson Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 RE: the idea that LEE Oswald was killed sometime soon after Nov. 1963. Another take on it is that he had enough family connections in the USA, that killing him off would have had unknown consequences. see http://www.harveyandlee.net/Norton/Norton.html So, if LEE took over the identity of "Donald Norton", married "Lexie", and they had two children (Chris & Amy). One would think that someone could track down these kids, and compare their DNA with that of Robert Oswald's family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jolliffe Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 12:08 PM, John Butler said: Just sent another note to Russ Geck. I hope he responds. If not I am going to assume that the information provided by him has not been verified. There are too many things in the Gardos story and the story in Hungary that makes one suspicious of what is known. I have been arguing all along that the Gardos/mysterious woman story must have had something to it, otherwise the FBI wouldn't have buried it! But again, please STOP focussing on the woman caller's allegation that "Oswald" (Harvey) was Emil Gardos's "son", and therefore the Dallas "Oswald" was little John Gardos, and that therefore, Russ Geck on the other side of the world is up to something if he won't respond to strangers accusing him of guilty knowledge that somehow his father-in-law is the accused or real assassin of President Kennedy! That's so goofy on its face! I wouldn't respond to that either! At first, it was not unreasonable for us to wonder if Gardos's own biological little son, John, could later have become "Oswald", murdered on 11.24.63. However, since we now have not one, but TWO very stong pieces of evidence that little John Gardos was very much alive after 1963 (the FBI memo from 1966 and now Mrs. Geck's own father, thanks to John B's work), we can conclude, beyond any doubt, that our "Oswald" (Harvey) could not have been little John Gardos. Our "Oswald" was murdered in 1963. John Gardos was not. He grew up and eventually fathered Mrs Russ Geck. Therefore, John Gardos was not "Oswald" (Harvey.) We now need to focus on identifying what was the nature of the brief relationship between Emil Gardos and that mysterious little boy in Yorkville in the mid 1940's. So, in the (unlikely?) event that anyone is able to get any kind of response again from Russ Geck, we need to know if John Gardos ever said anything about having a "foster" brother in his youth. I would bet serious money John Gardos had a "foster" brother (or someone who might have been mistaken for one) when he was a little boy with his parents in Yorkville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said: I have been arguing all along that the Gardos/mysterious woman story must have had something to it, otherwise the FBI wouldn't have buried it! But again, please STOP focussing on the woman caller's allegation that "Oswald" (Harvey) was Emil Gardos's "son", and therefore the Dallas "Oswald" was little John Gardos, and that therefore, Russ Geck on the other side of the world is up to something if he won't respond to strangers accusing him of guilty knowledge that somehow his father-in-law is the accused or real assassin of President Kennedy! That's so goofy on its face! I wouldn't respond to that either! At first, it was not unreasonable for us to wonder if Gardos's own biological little son, John, could later have become "Oswald", murdered on 11.24.63. However, since we now have not one, but TWO very stong pieces of evidence that little John Gardos was very much alive after 1963 (the FBI memo from 1966 and now Mrs. Geck's own father, thanks to John B's work), we can conclude, beyond any doubt, that our "Oswald" (Harvey) could not have been little John Gardos. Our "Oswald" was murdered in 1963. John Gardos was not. He grew up and eventually fathered Mrs Russ Geck. Therefore, John Gardos was not "Oswald" (Harvey.) We now need to focus on identifying what was the nature of the brief relationship between Emil Gardos and that mysterious little boy in Yorkville in the mid 1940's. So, in the (unlikely?) event that anyone is able to get any kind of response again from Russ Geck, we need to know if John Gardos ever said anything about having a "foster" brother in his youth. I would bet serious money John Gardos had a "foster" brother (or someone who might have been mistaken for one) when he was a little boy with his parents in Yorkville. Paul, Perhaps you ought to consider this. John Gardos is not Harvey Oswald, the man killed at the Dallas Police Station. If this is true and I have no reason to believe it is not then what happens to the Hungarian source for Lee Harvey Oswald. If Lee Harvey Oswald is rejected as the son of Emil Gardos then all connections to the FBI document are severed. Working under the theory false in one false in all the Tippit Call document can not be held as factual for anything, particularly any further assumptions about the Hungarian origins of Lee Harvey Oswald. I can not believe that the FBI did not know this. They had been monitoring Emil Gardos, Grace Gardos, Fred Blair, and Louis Weinstock for decades. They all, except the Blairs, came to this country after the failed communist revolution in Hungary after 1919. There are others who came in the same period such as J. Peters. Peters and Gardos were suspected of being Russian agents in the NKVD. So, what I am saying is I don't know why the FBI was so concerned about the document and classified as they did. It should have been released with other crank calls. But, wasn't. So, we are back to phase 1 trying to figure out what's what with that document. I'd like to get Jim Hargrove's and John Armstrongs opinion of this. Because, this does a great deal of damage to the origins of LHO as a Hungarian. Edited December 29, 2019 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now