EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)

[Jim Hargrove]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:06 PM, John Butler said:

It is my understanding that Lee was always called Lee and hated the name Harvey.  If so, why would Lee be registered as Harvey.

John,

My memory isn’t getting any better the older I get, but I don’t recall that about LEE.  Can you remember where you saw that?

It is clear that HARVEY Oswald told at least two people that he preferred to be called “Harvey.”  One was Beauregard teacher Myra DaRouse, who in early 1954 had HARVEY in her homeroom in the basement cafeteria of Beauregard at the same time LEE had a homeroom on the third floor.  Myra told John A. that her student said to call him “Harvey.”  

A second witness was William Henry Timmer, who met HARVEY in Stanley, North Dakota about six months earlier, in the summer of 1953.  Timmer said Oswald introduced himself as “Harv” or “Harvey.”

Your research on Elizabeth Bentley is intriguing, but, like everything else connected to the anonymous phone call to the Tippits of Connecticut, there is simply nothing resembling proof.  It’s very frustrating.

[John Kowalski]

22 hours ago, John Butler said:

Could be.  However, persecution of informers and those who betrayed the communists would be a good way to bona fide those folks. 

John B:

You may be correct about this, they could have been falsely persecuted to improve their standing within the communist party and yes we will probably never know for sure whose side they were on.

 

[John Butler]

Jim,

Welcome back.  You always ask good, challenging questions.  My first response was uh?  uh?  Then I thought Me and Lee by Judith Baker.  But, then thought it has a military context maybe from the Oswald visit to one of the military bases in Nevada, but.....

I have several boxes of books in the basement.  I'm fairly sure that may be the source.  But, to lazy to look it up.  Let's chalk it up to an Old Timer's moment.

I'm not done with Elizabeth Bentley.  John K. brought up a book about Elizabeth which suggested several nice clues.  I'm waiting for that to come in a week or so.  Basically, I'm looking for where she lived in 1945-47 and her possible connection to the Yorkville Club during that time.

I am developing this belief that if the unknown caller is revealed it will be among the members of the Yorkville Club membership during 1945-1947.  To many people mentioned in the Tippit teletype were members.  Emil, Grace, and Louis Weinstock.  There are several people, some Hungarian, living on 77th Street and 2nd Ave. that are members of the club.

Helen Levi Simon Travis is one.  She was a reporter with the Dailey Worker.  I have already written about her.

The dominant communist organization was the Yorkville Club.  This covered a district from 49^th Street to 96^th Street.  Its membership was 342 people.  A listing of its membership would be interesting.

I was not able to find any information for William and Sonia Arnett.  The parents of Louis Weber were Hungarians.  There is no information other then Census data on Louis and Estelle Weber.

However, there is information on Helen Levi.  Helen’s parents were German.  She married Abbott Simon in 1938.  Abbott’s parents were from a part of Poland that was a part of Russia.  They spoke Polish, Russian, and Yiddish.  Simon was involved in the 44 day strike in Flint, Michigan in 1931 involving General Motors. Fred Blair, Emil and Grace Gardos were also at this strike.  It may be that they met and knew each other.  But, overtime perhaps 150,000 people were involved.

Helen Levi Simon was a reporter for the Daily Worker during this time period.  It's possible she knew Weinstock and Gardos who at various times were associated with the newspaper.  Gardos and Weinstock were dominant members of that club.  Weinstock due to his position and Gardos due to his alleged status as an NKVD agent.  Grace Gardos was also a reporter for the Daily Worker. 

The Daily Worker at it’s peak had a subscription of 35,000, but on average of about 17000.  How many papers were sold on the street is unknown.  Whatever, the number the Daily Worker was a small paper whose income was probably bolstered by the CPUSA and directly from Russia.  Morris Child in his activities as a Soviet agent delivered something like 28 million dollars from Moscow for CPUSA operations.

Helen was an active communist agent and probably knew all of the communist activities that went on at 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave since she lived there.

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

Candidates for the Unknown Caller in the Tippit Phone Call

Analyzing the FBI Tippit teletype, one sees these points of interest that can be related to the Yorkville Club.

1.     She said she was from New York and had to come “here”. 

2.     She feared for her life and did not want the call reported to the newspapers.  “They” would know who she was and she would be killed.  “They” are probably not newspaper personnel, but government agencies.

3.     Mr. Tippit and Mrs. Tippit felt the unknown woman was a mature woman and did not have a youthful voice.  For various reasons, once the info there is connected to Harvey and Lee info, the 1963 information in the Tippit teletype refers to a woman from the period 1945-1947.  The age during this period can be matched to the time of the call 1963.

4.     She was said to have an accent.  This accent was either Austrian, or perhaps German, or Spanish.  Mrs. Tippit thought German or Austrian and Mr. Tippit thought Spanish.  50% of the members of the Yorkville Club were immigrants or the descendants of immigrants with possible foreign accents.

5.     Without getting into the text of what she said, one can infer she knew the people she was talking about to some degree, and the circumstances of the events.  In order to know Emil Gardos in New York this must have occurred before 1948.  Emil and wife leaves for Hungary in 1948 on a self-imposed exile.  Louis Weinstock was supposed to, but didn’t.

6.     A brother in law is mentioned.  This would be Fred Blair, the brother in law of Emil Gardos.  There is nobody else that can qualify.  She would have known him around 1947 or earlier when Fred went underground due to the Red Scare.  She mentions a Weinstock.  This would be Louis Weinstock and no one else.  It could indicate Weinstock’s brother in law.  However, Louis Weinstock did not have a known brother in law.  Along with Gardos, Weinstock was a Hungarian communist. 

7.     She said they were at a place where there were maps and charts.  This suggests an office or headquarters location.

8.     She identifies a location for Gardos and Weinstock.  This is 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave. NYC.   

 

Due to these clues the Yorkville Club might be a good place to look for identity of the unknown caller in the Tippit phone call.

Let’s recap:  The Yorkville Club was a communist organization at 350 East 80^th Street, NYC or 350 East 81^st Street in some sources.  Their membership was 342 members+ in the time period 1945-1947.  The Yorkville Club’s district for members had Yorkville stretching from 42^nd Street to 96^th Street, NYC.  Anyone who was a communist party member and lived in this range of streets was assigned to the Yorkville Club by the leadership of the New York CPUSA.  Several smaller communist clubs were reorganized into the Yorkville Club in 1945. 

The main copying machine for printing and copying communist material was located there.  This was the headquarters for the Communist Party in the area of 49^th Street to 96^th Street in NYC.  This organization dealt with Hungarian immigration after WWII through Louis Weinstock's connections. 

Emil and Grace Gardos- 27 East 86^th Street.  This makes them members of the Yorkville Club.

Louis Weinstock- Chairman of the United May Day Committee of the Yorkville Club.  Member of the Executive Committee of the Hungarian Relief Fund.

Fred Blair- There is no known connection to this club other than Fred going underground in 1946.  And, the mention of a brother in law in the FBI teletype that has to be Fred.  Fred is implied to be a the 77^th and 2^nd Ave. location with Weinstock and Gardos.  When Fred went underground one could assume he went to New York to be with his sister and Emil.  Weinstock and Blair served on the National Committee of the CPUSA at the same time.

Before we move on to discussing the Yorkville candidates one person must be eliminated from consideration.  Mary Fuhrman was thought of as a candidate early on, but was rejected.

Mary Fuhrman

Mary Fuhrman was the mother of the wife of John Pic, Margaret.  Her parents were Hungarians and at first appeared to be a good candidate for the unknown caller.  But, she was not a good candidate due to the time period she knew the Oswalds.  This was 1952 which is 5 years after the appearance of Harvey Oswald.  She more than likely would know little of the origin of Harvey Oswald. 

People who lived on this street in 1945-1947, 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave or nearby.

The location address, 77 Street and 2^nd Ave, was mentioned as the place Emil Gardos, brother in law Fred Blair, and Louis Weinstock lived with or associated with Lee Harvey Oswald, the son of Emil Gardos.  This location address was not an exact location but a general area on 77^th Street between 2^nd Ave. and 3^rd Ave. 

It is not known where on this street Emil Gardos, or Louis Weinstock, or Fred Blair lived, if at all.  During this time period Emil Gardos and Louis Weinstock had other addresses where they lived with their families.  The whereabouts of Fred Blair is unknown during this period.  The only information available says Fred went underground at the beginning of the Red Scare and the McCarthy Era.  Fred must have been somewhere nearby so the unknown caller could know of his being associated with Gardos and Weinstock.  Her information implies that Blair was in contact with Gardos, Weinstock, and Harvey Oswald in this area.

Actually, if you put this information together with Harvey Oswald’s first appearance in July, 1947 and Fred Blairs going underground in roughly March, 1947 or earlier, we can place these folks together in New York with Harvey during this time, and even delineate a time period.  This would be March, 1947 or earlier to July, 1947 in Texas.  Or earlier could extend back to 1946.     

There is no information available to connect Gardos, Weinstock, Blair, and Harvey Oswald to this area other than the Tippit phone call.

On the other hand since this location was mentioned in the FBI Tippit Phone Call teletype, it would be a good location to look for the unknown caller.

This location address is located very near the Yorkville Club.  The Yorkville Club was a communist organization for the communists who lived in the Yorkville section of New York City.  Some sources give the location of the Yorkville Club as 350 East 81^st Street.

The Yorkville Club had 342 members living from 49^th Street to 92 Street in NYC.  Yorkville was often called little Hungagy.  Roughly 50% of its members had connections to immigration.  Here is a short list:

Estelle Weber and (real name Oringer)- 325 East 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave.

Sonia Arnett- 215 East 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave.

Grace Gardos- 217 East 86^th Street.  Reporter for the Daily Worker.

Significant members of the Yorkville Club mentioned in Congressional testimony.

Helen Levi Simon Travis- 350 East 77^th Street and 2^nd Ave.  Reporter for the Daily Worker.

Stephanie Horvath- Alias Stephanie Riedel.  429 East 79^th Street.  New York undercover detective during the time period 1945-47 at the Yorkville Club. 

Mary Oser- 72 East 86^th Street- Organizational Secretary.

Cele Diebele- 425 East 78^th Street.  Chairman of the Yorkville Club.

Rose Schiff- 504 East 79^th Street.  Educational Secretary.

Betty Strake- 339 East 79^th Street.  Financial Secretary.

Faith Steindler- 229 East 79^th Street.  Membership Director.

3 unknowns- These were people whose names were to be mentioned only in Executive Session and were not listed with these other significant members of the Yorkville Club.

Of these I would think that Helen Levi Simon and Stephanie Horvath would be good suspects for further investigation.      

Others

Elizabeth Bentley- Not enough is known at this point to put Elizabeth Bentley in the Yorkville Cub.

Edited March 12, 2020 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

This might be a reasonable time to point out that back in 1963, Professor Vladimir Petrov of the Slavics Language Department at Yale University wrote a letter to Senator John Tower suggesting that “Oswald’s” January 1962 letter written in Minsk to Sen. Tower was actually written “by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English.”

Petrov’s letter, reproduced on the FBI’s “Series 2” set of microfilms on the JFK assassination, is shown exactly as reproduced by the FBI and UMI.  If anyone has a better copy, with Petrov’s signature, I’d love to see it.  Petrov’s “sheer speculation” following the initial paragraph is probably irrelevant.

[John Kowalski]

23 hours ago, John Butler said:

I'm not done with Elizabeth Bentley.  John K. brought up a book about Elizabeth which suggested several nice clues.  I'm waiting for that to come in a week or so. 

John B:

The book I mentioned is available for free on Internet Archive. If you ordered your book from Amazon they will probably give you your moeny back.

If you do not already have an Internet Archive account, create one and then borrow the book. They will let you have it for 14 days. When I am looking for books, I always go there first.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by John Kowalski

[David Josephs]

14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

This might be a reasonable time to point out that back in 1963, Professor Vladimir Petrov of the Slavics Language Department at Yale University wrote a letter to Senator John Tower suggesting that “Oswald’s” January 1962 letter written in Minsk to Sen. Tower was actually written “by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English.”

Jim...  what is the CE # for that letter from Oswald?  Can't seem to put my fingers on it...  and I'll take a little time today and see what turns up on Petrov
DJ

FWIW - when researching the possible source for the rifle Samuel Cummings of INTERARMCO is ex-CIA whose sister married JOHN TOWER....  and was one of 3 companies bidding for the same rifles as Adams (Feldsott)...  yet them and Century Int'l Arms (the other massive surplus weapons retailer) were barely investigated...

Figuring he could do much of the same on his own, he left the CIA in 1953 and started his own business, International Arms Corporation or Interarmco, in Alexandria, Virginia. The world was flooded with arms after World War Two and the charismatic Cummings used his CIA contacts and arms expertise to build up huge stockpiles and began to sell them to individuals and governments everywhere. His sister married an United States senator from Texas, John Tower which helped to improve his contacts. Through his friends he was awarded contracts to arm the allies of the Americans and British. He didn't downplay his CIA ties, he named one of his companies Cummings Investment Associates

And then we have our infamous "less-than-6-degrees-of-separation".  Despite there being a number of false leads re: that rifle (Nat Pinkston & H. Holmes come to mind) the FBI settled on FEDLSOTT and Adams... which suggests to me he was probably the only one NOT involved but willing to cooperate...  didn't want anyone looking too closely at Interarmco or Century Int'l Arms (C.I.A.)

In the summer and fall of 1958, Donald Edward Browder, the ex-Canadian pilot who was reported to be involved with Ruby since the late 1940s, was arrested for smuggling guns to Castro. Browder was later sentenced to three years in prison for this (Scott Malone's memorandum, dated September 19, 1977 in Ruby file, Assassination Archives, Washington DC):

“Browder [was] in a US prison serving three years for a conviction of receiving, transporting, and possessing stolen Canadian securities. The securities were stolen from the Brockville Savings and Trust company and two other Canadian financial institutions. While the FBI supplied several reports to the Warren Commission concerning Browder, including his denial about knowing Ruby, they withheld hundreds of reports from Browder's file which illuminated his extensive involvement in gun smuggling to Cuba and the stolen Canadian securities. Both the gun smuggling to Cuba and the stolen Canadian securities were activities controlled by Norman Rothman. Rothman admits to knowing Browder.

On July 7, 1961, Browder gave a sworn deposition to the American Surety Company in which he stated that he had obtained the stolen securities he was arrested for ($136,000) from the 26th of July Movement, Fidel Castro's revolutionary group, in exchange for arms during the summer and fall of 1958. Browder stated that he had obtained the weapons from the International Armament Corporation (InterArmco) in Alexandria, Virginia, starting in late May and early June of 1958. Browder was apparently the purchasing agent for the Rothman gun-running operation to Castro's forces.

According to a memorandum of a House Un-American Activities Committee investigator, Cubans driving station wagons and small trucks were purchasing automatic weapons from InterArmco at this time with the approval of the CIA. [CIA agent] Frank Sturgis has admitted to being involved with this operation at this same time. Efren Pichardo, associate of Browder, has also admitted to being involved in this operation (he drove a station wagon) at the exact same time with Sturgis. Pichardo was working for Browder at the time. Pichardo also confirmed that many of the weapons were hidden in the marshes of Islmorada, Florida, where Ruby has been identified by independent witnesses as "babysitting" a large arms cache. ....

While Browder has ample underworld connections, he is not lacking in intelligence connections either. Browder claims to have known the chief of intelligence for the Mexican Air Force, as well as a Canadian Minister of Defense. His "rap sheet" reveals that although he had numerous arrests, he spent relatively little time behind bars.

[John Butler]

John K,

I'm not concerned with the money.  I would rather have the hard copy.  It was easier for me to read as versus a computer screen.  BTW, it came in yesterday and I spent most of the day going over it and underlining notes.  Lauren Kessler did an amazing job of assembling the information on Elizabeth Bentley.  Her story is a long, complex, fascinating story that has a huge, sprawling cast of characters told over decades.  If someone found fault with the book it would be due to its complexity.

I was mainly looking for where she lived in NYC.  I wanted to relate that to the Yorkville Club.  She didn't live in the area.  So, she would not have known the Tippit Teletype characters through that connection. 

The second thing I was looking for was where was she in the week before her surgery on Dec. 2, 1963 in the New Haven hospital.  She checked into the New Haven hospital 2 weeks before she had surgery for tests.  Elizabeth Bentley had a peculiar relationship with the FBI including the New Haven FBI.  She called the New Haven FBI on a regular basis.  This was probably allowed because she was a pen pal of J. Edgar.  They corresponded regularly.  J. Edgar had her under a loose surveillance terming it as it might be of interest in communist matters in later times. 

I'm currently writing up my thoughts on Bentley and the OSS.  As Jim Hargrove says it comes down to proof.  And, there is very little to suggest Elizabeth Bentley knew.  Just conjecture based on her circumstance concerning the OSS.

Edited March 13, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

This will probably the last post on the Tippit Call.

The End of the OSS, Elizabeth Bentley, and Lee Harvey Oswald

From Wikipedia:

On September 20, 1945, President Truman signed Executive Order 9621, terminating the OSS. The State Department took over the Research and Analysis Branch; it became the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, The War Department took over the Secret Intelligence (SI) and Counter-Espionage (X-2) Branches, which were then housed in the new Strategic Services Unit (SSU). Brigadier General John Magruder (formerly Donovan's Deputy Director for Intelligence in OSS) became the new SSU director. He oversaw the liquidation of the OSS and managed the institutional preservation of its clandestine intelligence capability.^[59]

And,

The Strategic Services Unit was an intelligence agency of the United States government that existed in the immediate post–World War II period. It was created from the Secret Intelligence and Counter-Espionage branches of the wartime Office of Strategic Services.

Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy was instrumental in preserving the two branches of the OSS as a going-concern with a view to forming a permanent peace-time intelligence agency. The unit was established on October 1, 1945 through Executive Order 9621, which simultaneously abolished the OSS.^[1] The SSU was headed by General John Magruder.^[2][3][4]

In January 1946, a new National Intelligence Authority was established along with a small Central Intelligence Group. On April 2, 1946 the Strategic Services Unit was transferred to the new group as the Office of Special Operations and a transfer of personnel began immediately.

In 1947, the Central Intelligence Agency was established under the 1947 National Security Act, incorporating the Central Intelligence Group. In August 1952, the Office of Special Operations was combined with the Office of Policy Coordination to form the Directorate of Plans.

The above Wikipedia information gives a brief outline of what happened to the OSS after WWII.  President Truman signed an Executive Order in Sept., 1945 and phtt! It was gone.  The OSS was reduced as an intelligence agency, at one time had 24,000 people, by 85%.  The 3 surviving portions of the agency was assigned to other government agencies.

The excuses given at the time was that the OSS might become a Gestapo like organization.  Later, it was revealed that the OSS was riddled with communist agents.  This was known early due to the Venona Program.  This may have influenced Truman to do what he did with out controversial objection.

Now to the central question:  What does this have to do with Lee Harvey Oswald and the Oswald Project?

Well, one could wonder who started the program and when?  The OSS is gone by Oct., 1945.  Was the Oswald Project started directly after WWII when it was realized that the new enemy would be the Soviet Union and East European countries.  Was it started before the OSS was terminated, say after April and before September of 1945?  Was it started after Oct., 1945 by one of the surviving divisions of the OSS?

Is the Assistant Secretary of War, John McCloy, a familiar name in the Oswald Saga?  He saved two agencies that dealt with intelligence activities concerning the Soviet Union.  The other division saved was the Research and Analysis division of the OSS.  It became the Bureau of Intelligence under the State Department.

It is one of these agencies that is the likely source of the Oswald Project and Harvey Oswald.  My best guess would be this program began in the Research and Analysis Division before the war ended or just directly after as it was realized that there would be a knew enemy as significant as the Nazis.  More than likely the government knew by 1943 that the Nazis would be beaten.

Elizabeth Bentley is not a great candidate for the unknown caller in the Tippit Teletype.  On one hand she is not a good candidate, but on the other hand or other hands she might be.  I cannot connect Bentley to the Yorkville communists or the ones mentioned or implied in the Tippit Teletype.  At best one could say she knew of the people of the teletype by reading about them in the Daily Worker.  She read this paper religiously in the 1930s and 1940s.  She also knew all of the major communist players in the New York area. 

By the early months of 1945, she had been removed from the operation of the two spy groups she and her mentor, Jacob Golos, had built and run for years.  This is part of the reason she turned against the Soviets.  That and the fear she might be assassinated by the Soviets.  She didn’t know it, but the Soviets were considering that option. 

These spy groups run by Bentley would have had knowledge of anything the OSS was into and passed that knowledge unto the Soviets.  But, would Bentley know what the OSS was doing after the first few months in 1945?

Prior to that time, she would have known everything going on in the OSS.  She was running two spy networks that contained a number of OSS agents.  She had direct access to OSS personnel and everything the OSS was doing.  These are:

Duncan Lee- He was a top assistant of William “Wild Bill” Donovan, the head of the OSS.  He was a lawyer in Donovan’s law firm before the war.

Helen Tenney- She provided information on the duties and activities of OSS people in all parts of the OSS and all personnel throughout the world.

J. Julius Joseph- From 1943 to 1945 was with the OSS.  Discovered by the Venona code-breaker progam along with five others, Maurice Halperin, Duncan Chapin Lee, Bella Joseph, Franz Neumann, and Julius Joseph.

Maurice Halperin- Worked in the Office of the Coordinator of Information which later became the Research Division of the OSS.

Horst Baerensprung- OSS consultant on Germany.

Hans Hirschfeld- OSS consultant on Germany.

Bella Joseph- OSS film section.

Donald Wheeler- OSS Research and Analysis.

Thomas Babin- OSS Yugoslavia Section.

Philip Keeney- OSS librarian.

Mary Keeneyl- OSS librarian.

Leonard Mins- Russian Section of Research and Analysis.

Samuel Bloomfield- Eastern European Section.

An unnamed OSS agent brought into the spy network in Sep., 1945.

Joseph Gregg- Had access to Naval Intelligence and FBI files.

Major program initiatives would have been reported by Duncan Lee.  There are 3 personnel from the Research and Analysis Division.  If Elizabeth Bentley knew of the Oswald Project and Harvey Oswald it would have come from these people.

It may have been that this information was not significant until the assassination of President Kennedy and may have resurfaced in her mind leading to the desire to get this information out before she under went major surgery for cancer.  She had checked into the hospital 2 weeks before her surgery at a New Haven, Ct. hospital.  She was in the area the night of the Tippit call.

Then again maybe not since this is mainly conjecture.  At least this info is out there for the next group that researches into the origins of Harvey Oswald through the Tippit Teletype.  It is there to accept or reject.

[David Josephs]

15 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

If anyone has a better copy, with Petrov’s signature, I’d love to see it.

Me too...  the only reference to VLADIMIR PETROV in the WCDocs:  A Russian defector MAY have reason to slant Oswald towards Russia...

There are fairly large reports on this scattered about:  the page below this is from the 1st paper

DJ

 

[Jim Hargrove]

46 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Jim...  what is the CE # for that letter from Oswald?  Can't seem to put my fingers on it...  and I'll take a little time today and see what turns up on Petrov
DJ

DJ,

The Oswald to Tower letter is part of CE 1058.  Both it and the Petrov letter are at this address at Baylor:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/23459/rec/3

John apparently made the copy of the Petrov letter directly from the FBI "Series 2" microfilm from UMI, and the signature is cut off on the film.  

 

[David Josephs]

34 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

DJ,

The Oswald to Tower letter is part of CE 1058.  Both it and the Petrov letter are at this address at Baylor:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/23459/rec/3

John apparently made the copy of the Petrov letter directly from the FBI "Series 2" microfilm from UMI, and the signature is cut off on the film.  

 

Thanks....  I did find this RIF cover page, now we need to find the document...  The department of STATE was handling all this - and from studying Mexico City it seems to me that STATE and CIA were on one page while the FBI was on another...  Interesting this doc is CIA originated...  now let's find it....  not sure why that letter is not it's own CE

COLLECTION OF RIF PAGES FROM OSWALD 201 FILE, VOLUME 13

[Jim Hargrove]

On 2/29/2020 at 5:17 PM, John Kowalski said:

Everyone:

There is one last research opportunity that may be worth exploring before moving on from the Tippit call. As I mentioned in a previous post, I contacted Tina Tippit Brown on LinkedIn and also sent her a letter. So far no response from her. I tracked down her daughter, Teresa aka Terri Ranck who now lives in Lubbock Texas, which is where their family and their distant relative officer JD Tippit, came from. Am hesitant about contacting Terri without trying to locate someone who may know her first. Having an intermediary may facilitate getting a response from her or her mother. I know that this is a long shot but does anyone know someone who has friends or relatives in Lubbock Texas where she lives or Bridgeport CT where her mother lives?

In my letter to Tina Tippit Brown I asked the following questions:

1.        Can you confirm if she mentioned a person named Weinstock and another person named Kardos, Gardos or a name similar to it? Did she say where Weinstock and Kardos worked?

 

 

 

2.        Did she tell you how she obtained this information?

 

 

 

3.        Do you recall if the woman had an accent, if yes what type of accent was it?

 

 

 

4.        Did you keep a written copy of the report you made to the FBI? If yes, may I have a copy of it?

 

 

 

5.        Did you or your husband do any research on this telephone call after contacting the FBI?

 

 

 

6.        Did you report this telephone call to the media, and if yes did they publish a story about it?

 

 

 

7.        What was Jack Dempsey’s relationship to JD Tippit?

 

 

John,

I'm still trying to catch up here after my vacation, so forgive me if I missed a later post about this, but I was wondering if you have received a reply from Tina Tippit Brown or have any other new information about her or or daughter.  Thanks so much for doing this! 

[John Kowalski]

12 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

John,

I'm still trying to catch up here after my vacation, so forgive me if I missed a later post about this, but I was wondering if you have received a reply from Tina Tippit Brown or have any other new information about her or or daughter.  Thanks so much for doing this! 

Jim:

I received a telephone call from Tina and an email from her granddaughter. Had a nice chat with her and she told me something about accents. She is from Texas and the only accent she is familiar with is Mexican accents. So her comments about what type of accent the caller had were probably not accurate.

She said that she did not know the woman caller. The woman called a number of times and every time she called she was in a rush, fearing being overheard.

She does not know the Tippit family because they are distant relatives, if they are relatives at all. She said there are different ways to spell Tippit and because of this they may not be relatives and the only thing they have in common is that they are from the same part of Texas.

She made notes on the call but does not want to access them right now because she is cleaning up her late-husband's estate and the notes are packed away in boxes.

Her comments about the woman fearing being overheard are interesting. If Tina's impression is correct, that she feared being overheard, this would suggest that she was not calling from a telephone booth but from a home or office where she could be overheard. If she did not call from a telephone booth then there is the possibility that the number could be traced and having this number would lead to the identity of the caller.

 

[John Butler]

This probably can not be connected to anything.  But, from the mid-1950s, the Russians had a palm size gas gun that shot a powered cyanide spray that induced a heart attack and was not traceable.  I bet we had one too.  This could explain the many, many heart attack deaths of Kennedy witnesses starting directly after Nov. 22, 1963. 

I ran across this while researching Elizabeth Bentley.  I am not going to be so bold as to connect the two.

But, hospitals generally had phones in the hallway so patients could make calls.  Elizabeth Bentley had exploratory surgery on Dec. 2, 1963.  She went into the hospital early, a week or so prior to Nov. 30, 1963 for pre-operative tests and procedures.  During that time she had many conversations with the New Haven FBI agents.  She was well know by them and had been in contact with them over time.  They allowed these informal conversations because she was a pen pal of J. Edgar Hoover.  He was keeping her under a loose surveillance. 

According to Lauren Kessler the surgeons opened her up and found massive, inoperable cancers.  They didn't remove any and just closed the wound.  She died sometime that night from what was judged as the stress of the surgery.

From the Church Committee"

Origins of the CIA’s Heart Attack Gun

Additionally, Colby disclosed a bit more history of what might have led to the creation of this gun. He stated that in 1952 the CIA began a super secret research program, code-named M.K. Naomi, partly to find countermeasures to chemical and biological weapons that might be used by the Russian KGB….

…Colby ordered an investigation into the poisons which found a seldom used CIA room that the Times reported contained “19 other lethal substances in addition to the shellfish toxin and cobra venom. These included poisons such as strychnine and cyanide pills as well as a material that causes abortions in animals. There was also a wide range of ‘incapacitating’ materials including those that lower blood pressure, cause temporary amnesia and impair kidney function.”

As I said this is far out exploratory thinking.

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by John Butler