W. Niederhut Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said: Interesting criticism, a couple of years ago, of Trumpkof by ex C.I.A. director John Brennan. " The esteem with which I held the presidency was dealt a serious blow when Donald Trump took office….Many have condemned my public criticism of Mr trump, arguing that as a former C.I.A. Director, I should bite my tongue. My criticisms, however are not political; I have never been and will never be a partisan. I speak out for the simple reason that Mr Trump is failing to live up to the standards that we should all expect of a president. As someone who had the rare privilege of directly serving four presidents, I will continue to speak out loudly and critically until integrity, decency, wisdom— and maybe even some humility— return to the White House.” When are the members of the Trumpican party going to wake up? My impression is that most Trump supporters here in the States never question the whizdom of the Fuhrer. They simply drink the kool-aid and get angry if anyone asks questions or expresses any concerns about Don Mar-a-Lago's whizdom. As an example, Trump supporters on another forum I participate in have refused to comment during the past two days on the fact that Trump lied about "imminent threats" to four U.S. embassies-- his alleged pretext for assassinating Iranian General Soleimani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 America has a mad man (see the phsycologic and psychiatric reports about his narcissism*) in the White House, and he is being supported by henchmen such as Pompeo, Barr and Sessions, all of whom will do anything that Trump tells them to preserve their positions in power. Trump is not only a danger to the U.S. but to the whole world. Who would like the red nuclear button to be in the care of a nut? As I suggested months ago, the U.S. is in great danger, and the checks and balances of the three separations as written into the constitution have failed to materialise because of the slavish obeyance of the Republican Party to Trumps every whim, no matter how asinine. How the U.S. will get itself out of this unholy mess, is difficult to imagine. If and when Trump is impeached, supposedly Pence will take over the Presidency, which will leave the same people in charge. *https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/04/trump-malignant-narcissistic-disorder-psychiatry-column/101243584/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said: America has a mad man (see the phsycologic and psychiatric reports about his narcissism*) in the White House, and he is being supported by henchmen such as Pompeo, Barr and Sessions, all of whom will do anything that Trump tells them to preserve their positions in power. Trump is not only a danger to the U.S. but to the whole world. Who would like the red nuclear button to be in the care of a nut? As I suggested months ago, the U.S. is in great danger, and the checks and balances of the three separations as written into the constitution have failed to materialise because of the slavish obeyance of the Republican Party to Trumps every whim, no matter how asinine. How the U.S. will get itself out of this unholy mess, is difficult to imagine. If and when Trump is impeached, supposedly Pence will take over the Presidency, which will leave the same people in charge. *https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/04/trump-malignant-narcissistic-disorder-psychiatry-column/101243584/ Ray, I have been truly shocked by what is happening in the U.S. during the past four years. I didn't think this could ever happen here. When a few historians and sociologists started writing a few years ago about the parallels between Trumpism and European fascism in the 1930s, they were either ignored or ridiculed as alarmists-- adherents of the internet's "Godwin's Law." University of Pennsylvania historian Thomas Childers taught a Great Courses series on the history of the Nazi Empire a few years ago, where he asked the question, "Could this ever happen in America?" Childers outlined a series of critical events and policies used by Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels from 1932-33 to subvert the democracy of the Weimer Republic and establish a totalitarian, fascist police state. Hitler came to power in 1932, improbably, with a core group of racist supporters-- roughly one third of the electorate, as I recall. He was strongly supported by the military, the police, and wealthy industrialists (IG Farben, et.al.) who believed that the Nazis would function as a bulwark against socialism. Immediately after coming to power, Hitler and his goons relentlessly attacked the opposition press, (the "Lugenspresse," fake news, etc.) then abolished all opposition political parties after burning down the Reichstag and declaring a state of emergency. They also relentlessly attacked minority groups-- especially the Jews-- and foreigners, creating paranoia about threats to Germany along its borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Wow,! Speaking of Hitler. Putin was really hot here from about 2015. Ollie Stone liked him and a few people here were always making excuses for him. But now Putin is breaking his word and trying to design constitutional reforms to hold on to his power beyond a quarter century, and his cabinet resigned including his former puppet, the younger Medvedev. https://www.vox.com/2020/1/15/21066985/russian-government-resigned-putin-constitutional-reforms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I hope the following is not too inflammatory, as it is not my intention to make anyone irate. I am no fan of Donald Trump, but John Brennan's efforts at ousting Trump mean he should probably be locked up for treason. He doesn't get to decide how a President should or should not behave. The people make that choice on election day. There is no guarantee that every 4 years there will be choices on the ballot that are as good as the choices offered 4 years prior. But we vote and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: I hope the following is not too inflammatory, as it is not my intention to make anyone irate. I am no fan of Donald Trump, but John Brennan's efforts at ousting Trump mean he should probably be locked up for treason. He doesn't get to decide how a President should or should not behave. The people make that choice on election day. There is no guarantee that every 4 years there will be choices on the ballot that are as good as the choices offered 4 years prior. But we vote and move on. Is it treason if a citizen tries to uphold the constitution, or tries to rid the country of a President who doesn't, Matt? True, the people make the decision on election day but the Constitution allows for getting rid of a failed President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Hi Ray- I understand the vitriol when it comes to Trump, I really do. But Trump being a crass and vulgar buffoon is not grounds for impeachment, IMO. Impeachment has been turned into a political weapon, and what is used against Trump now, will be used against the Dems the next time they are in the White House. I do not believe the founders intended for impeachment to be used the way Nancy Pelosi and Co. have used it these past few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Matt, agreed that Trump is a crass and vulgar buffoon, but he has caused grounds for his impeachment by ignoring the constitution numerous times. If it is a political weapon to be used in future, so be it, if any future president conducts himself the way Trump has. The founders were very clever in what they decided, a triumvirate between the President, the Senate and Congress, and if the Trumpicans were to do their duty, and uphold the constitution, rather than hold on only to party dogma, he would be dismissed. But don't hold your breath as they have obviously succumbed to Trump disease which affects the brains of normally sane people. Edited January 17, 2020 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I would actually like to see the same rules in the House that the Senate has, which is a 2/3 majority is required for impeachment/conviction to be agreed upon. I feel like that would move it out of the political realm. And the House would still be able to vote on censure using a regular majority vote. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: I would actually like to see the same rules in the House that the Senate has, which is a 2/3 majority is required for impeachment/conviction to be agreed upon. I feel like that would move it out of the political realm. And the House would still be able to vote on censure using a regular majority vote. But that's just my opinion. America's great defender of the public interest said it best last May. Donald Trump Is the Most Impeachable President in American History www.commondreams.org/views/2019/05/03/donald-trump-most-impeachable-president-american-history by Ralph Nader May 3, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Hi Kathy- none of what I heard in the testimonies was impeachable, IMO, and that is because I think the Executive Branch has the right to carry out foreign policy as it wishes; that's part of the bargain when a President is elected. Unelected State Department employees don't get to decide policy, and I think that's for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Hi Kathy- none of what I heard in the testimonies was impeachable, IMO, and that is because I think the Executive Branch has the right to carry out foreign policy as it wishes; that's part of the bargain when a President is elected. Unelected State Department employees don't get to decide policy, and I think that's for the best. That's not what he's being impeached for. He's being impeached for using the Office of the President to further his own personal interests. He's also being impeached for the wholesale refusal to provide his constitutionally and legally mandated responses for documents and witnesses to allow the House of Representatives (which is you and me) who along with the Senate created the office under article 1, to oversee the Executive branch. The reason for Congress to be able to oversee the Executive is that if it has no power to do so, that condition renders The United States a monarchy as opposed to a democratic republic, which isn't what we all signed up for. Let's be real clear. This is potentially disastrous and the public's ignorance of these basic facts is what allows a person of Trump's ilk to lead the most powerful nation in history. To me it's unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Hi Bob- "That's not what he's being impeached for. He's being impeached for using the Office of the President to further his own personal interests." Just because Joe Biden is running for President, does not mean he gets to be immune from being investigated. If Biden did not want to be investigated, then his son probably should not have taken that job that he obviously had no reason to get other than to curry influence with his father. "He's also being impeached for the wholesale refusal to provide his constitutionally and legally mandated responses for documents and witnesses to allow the House of Representatives (which is you and me) who along with the Senate created the office under article 1, to oversee the Executive branch." Trump by law can claim executive privilege and refuse to do so without a ruling from the judiciary. In your scenario, if the House could actually tell a President what to do like that, he would effectively be powerless. I am not a fan of Trump- I say all of this as a Bernie Sanders supporter. But I believe this impeachment process was 100% political and bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Hi Kathy- nope, I am indeed a Democrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Bob Ness said: That's not what he's being impeached for. He's being impeached for using the Office of the President to further his own personal interests. He's also being impeached for the wholesale refusal to provide his constitutionally and legally mandated responses for documents and witnesses to allow the House of Representatives (which is you and me) who along with the Senate created the office under article 1, to oversee the Executive branch. The reason for Congress to be able to oversee the Executive is that if it has no power to do so, that condition renders The United States a monarchy as opposed to a democratic republic, which isn't what we all signed up for. Let's be real clear. This is potentially disastrous and the public's ignorance of these basic facts is what allows a person of Trump's ilk to lead the most powerful nation in history. To me it's unbelievable. Unbelievable yes. But still, in spite of the current president more of an Oligarchy than a Monocracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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