Chris Bristow Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, John Butler said: Chris, The top arrow refers to the black or shadowed square at the end of the cigar. The left arrow refers to some kind of square or nearly square object on his hand. There is some kind of design on the square. The right arrow refers to a polygonal, transparent area beginning at the end of the wrist. Those don't appear to be shadows. Chris here's another to fog the brain cells of a normal person. This is strange. Where is the guy in the tan raincoat (possibly with a microphone) in the left hand photo. Ruby takes maybe two steps and the microphone guy disappears. In the right hand photo you can possibly see the hands of the cigar smoking man. In the left hand photo is that one amazing big arm for the cigar smoking man? That arm's almost as big as Oswald's torso. Okay on the top left Arrow the very tip of it touches the hair on the right side of the forehead I mentioned before. The lower left Arrow is still the shadow on the side of Oswald's face and some of his shoulder and collar. You can make out Oswald's face in the dark area , he is looking to the right. The arrow on the right pointing to that Square thing on the back of his hand I can't make out what it is. As far as the raincoat guy I think by the looks of cigar guys hand in relation to Ruby he has stepped way out and in front of raincoat guy. But you can see some of rain coat guy underneath the cigar guys right armpit. It may be that raincoat guy stepped back in reaction to the shot as cigar guy stepped forward. Cigar guys arm looks very thick because about the bottom third is shadow from the camera flash falling on the person in the background. You can see the demarcation from his arm to the shadow because the shadow is much darker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Chris, Could be. Could be someone else. I thought I would hear something about camera angles. Will Fritz looks scared witless. He doesn't want to see what he set up. He's made sure there is some distance between him and what's happening. Edited February 10, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 This just BEGS me to bring up that microphone anomaly... It has been suggested this scene needed to be replayed.... Where is the microphone and shadow which is basically horizontally the same height as the top of the door behind everyone on that same wall??? These images are taken at virtually the same time.... And there is the one and only jutting out column of bricks... the mic should be right there above the man with the mic and the man in the black hat at the wall... Anyone 'splain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Are we more certain than not that there is a masked man or is "masked" more descriptive (or what it looks/seems like) than declarative (what it is or you actually believe it to be)? 3 hours ago, David Josephs said: This just BEGS me to bring up that microphone anomaly... It has been suggested this scene needed to be replayed.... Where is the microphone and shadow which is basically horizontally the same height as the top of the door behind everyone on that same wall??? These images are taken at virtually the same time.... And there is the one and only jutting out column of bricks... the mic should be right there above the man with the mic and the man in the black hat at the wall... Anyone 'splain that? What the....hmm.... Edited February 10, 2020 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 hours ago, David Josephs said: This just BEGS me to bring up that microphone anomaly... It has been suggested this scene needed to be replayed.... Where is the microphone and shadow which is basically horizontally the same height as the top of the door behind everyone on that same wall??? These images are taken at virtually the same time.... And there is the one and only jutting out column of bricks... the mic should be right there above the man with the mic and the man in the black hat at the wall... Anyone 'splain that? 21 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said: What the....hmm.... I'll second that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1at57OXqSFwpn1-HqqygTGAmgyd3fGRRn/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, David Josephs said: This just BEGS me to bring up that microphone anomaly... It has been suggested this scene needed to be replayed.... Where is the microphone and shadow which is basically horizontally the same height as the top of the door behind everyone on that same wall??? These images are taken at virtually the same time.... And there is the one and only jutting out column of bricks... the mic should be right there above the man with the mic and the man in the black hat at the wall... Anyone 'splain that? I do believe David has shown this photo has been altered. Now the question is why? I don’t have a clue. What could be there that requires this effort? Missing mic and guy. I mentioned the cigar smoking guy’s extra sized arm and Chris Barstow explained that was due to shadow. But, a shadow on what? No one else has a shadow cast or cast on them. The guy behind cigar smoking guy is to far away for that to appear real. Shouldn’t Ruby’s shadow cover Oswald? David said these images were taken at virtually the same time. That time is about a second or less. Did microphone guy have time to react and jump completely out of the scene? Edited February 11, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 14 hours ago, John Butler said: Chris, Could be. Could be someone else. I thought I would hear something about camera angles. Will Fritz looks scared witless. He doesn't want to see what he set up. He's made sure there is some distance between him and what's happening. That's funny cuz I seem to type the word angles more than any other word. In this case the change in angle would serve to show more of the raincoat guy so it is definitely not the answer there. That is why I thought maybe raincoat guy stepped backward as cigar guy stepped forward because the change between them is definitely significant. I haven't looked at will Fritz yet and the timing of his reaction or lack of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 6 hours ago, John Butler said: I do believe David has shown this photo has been altered. Now the question is why? I don’t have a clue. What could be there that requires this effort? Missing mic and guy. I mentioned the cigar smoking guy’s extra sized arm and Chris Barstow explained that was due to shadow. But, a shadow on what? No one else has a shadow cast or cast on them. The guy behind cigar smoking guy is to far away for that to appear real. Shouldn’t Ruby’s shadow cover Oswald? David said these images were taken at virtually the same time. That time is about a second or less. Did microphone guy have time to react and jump completely out of the scene? I believe the shadow is falling on raincoat guy and is cast buy cigar guy's arm. The other Shadows land a little below the things that cast them which indicates the position of the light. That shadow on raincoat guy is much darker than the actual arm of cigar guy. And looking at the other Shadows I would say a shadow cast from cigar guy's arm should be where we see the dark area on raincoat guy behind him. As to Ruby Shadow covering Oswald I would say if the flash is coming from the camera and we can see both Oswald and Ruby in the frame then both should be illuminated by The Flash so no Shadow would appear. It is interesting that the camera flash totally eliminates any Shadows cast by the lights set up for the video camera The question of weather rain Coke I could come back in one second is worth checking. I find the movement takes almost a second but slightly less. Reacting to gunfire can make a person jump. A quick little jump like that really does take a second or less. It would take longer 4 cigar guy to start to move forward then for raincoat guy to push himself backward. Jumping backward takes way less time than lurching forward, but I digress with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 hours ago, David Josephs said: This just BEGS me to bring up that microphone anomaly... It has been suggested this scene needed to be replayed.... Where is the microphone and shadow which is basically horizontally the same height as the top of the door behind everyone on that same wall??? These images are taken at virtually the same time.... And there is the one and only jutting out column of bricks... the mic should be right there above the man with the mic and the man in the black hat at the wall... Anyone 'splain that? I'm thinking that the shadow on the wall of the boom mic is being cast by The Flash of a still camera from left to right. Other than flashes the only constant light of any significance are the lights for the video cameras that were on the right of all the images and would not cast a mic shadow on that wall. So the mic Shadow had to be cast buy a flash camera and so was only visible on the wall for that moment of The Flash. The boom mic itself is hard to judge as to its location. Is it right over raincoat guys head or is it closer to the camera? That would make a difference as to why it does or doesn't appear in the other photo. Another possibility is Boom mics are made to swing left and right and up and down. It may be they were swinging the boom mic to the left as Oswald headed that way and maybe why it doesn't show up in the other picture. If we had a map of the garage area and its dimensions it would be much easier to sort this thing out. I think it's also possible that when people hear a gunshot next to them they tend to freak out for a second. One of the video camera guys starts ducking behind the car. It's possible the boom mic operator just freaked out for a second and yanked the mic up. Some people like cigar guy move towards the gun, some duck, some move away and Fritz just stands there. But he was old and focusing on the car at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Chris, In the photo with the mic missing. Oswald has just been shot from the grimace on his face. There's not enough time for the sound man who has the boom mic to react. No one else has reacted in the photo other than facial expressions by Detective Leavelle who is at Oswalds side. I don't count the cigar smoking man. IMO, he an addition as the microphone man is abstracted. That is what it appears like to me. It doesn't appear to me to be sufficient time for anyone to move other than Leavelle who sees what is coming. If so and true, what I can figure out is why? Why would these changes be made? It doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: That's funny cuz I seem to type the word angles more than any other word. In this case the change in angle would serve to show more of the raincoat guy so it is definitely not the answer there. That is why I thought maybe raincoat guy stepped backward as cigar guy stepped forward because the change between them is definitely significant. I haven't looked at will Fritz yet and the timing of his reaction or lack of it. That's true. It is funny. From time to time we disagree, but I always read your comments for your insights. In many cases they are superior to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) I am leaning toward the boom mic moving when the picture here showing it was taken. It could have moved out of the next still shot view in one second's time if it was already moving imo. Also, William. J. "Blackie" Harrison is the big cigar smoking fellow coming in from the right of Ruby even "before" Ruby got off the shot into Oswald. Harrison obviously noticed Ruby breaking out too far from the security line that Harrison had helped form and he was already putting his arm out to impede him. Harrison the police officer knew Ruby well for many years. Used to pop into Ruby's places to check for underage customers and "get a cold drink" from time to time. See Harrison's WC testimony. Ruby, whether Harrison could see him or not just before Oswald is brought within feet of Harrison and the press crowd, is literally just feet from Harrison's left side - arms length - when he jumps out to shoot Oswald. Yet, Harrison never notices his old friend Jack Ruby standing right next to him at any time? One really should read Harrison's WC testimony and especially his recollections of his actual presence in the DPD basement press crowd before and leading up to Ruby's leaping right past him to whack Oswald. Also, through Blackie Harrison's testimony like so many other DPD personnel who were on duty and inside the DPD building the entire weekend while Oswald was there and being shuffled around so much, one can't help but sense the absolute crazy chaos of scores of frantic news people being allowed to crowd into almost every floor, office and hall way the entire time, bumping into and getting in the way of all the police people and tying up their phone lines and snapping photos and yelling, pushing and shoving to get close to Oswald while he was being moved. Detective Jim Leavelle who was escorting Oswald from office to office earlier than Sunday morning, also many times described this press crowd madness and liked to tell the story of the press man who had the desperate gall to actually get down and pop his head up under Leavelle's crotch to get a picture of Oswald whereupon Leavelle sent the man flying with a powerful well placed kick. Leavelle would smile with almost boastful gratification when sharing his butt kicking prowess in sending this press man flying. Point being...how could any responsible police agency in charge of the security of the most important and threatened criminal suspect in America's history allow their entire building to turn into a complete circus of camera and microphone crazy newsmen crowding into almost every area of their operations such as right outside the room where Oswald is being interrogated more than once and tying up DPD phone lines right in their own offices! The basement move was just as stupid crazy. Dark, crowded, cramped. Oswald's day light transfer time and location broadcast to the public. Creating a lynch mob yelling crowd across the street from the Main Street DPD basement entrance? And basement security so lax armed, crazy strip joint owner Ruby just saunters right in at the most important time of Oswald's presence there? Please! That whole security effort for Oswald just makes you sick when you realize how negligent it was. So negligent, it didn't make sense and was beyond any explanation of simple naivete on the part of the DPD. Edited February 11, 2020 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McTague Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) On 2/8/2020 at 12:46 PM, Chris Davidson said: That appears to be correct: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lw1JHLVGVeKCF5pWtPbLuahN9ZK6aggQ/view?usp=sharing Chris, Watching that video from an angle that is rarely shown (usually, it's the video from another camera angle that shows LHO and not the police car), it has always struck me that the timing is ever so close when the car hits Ruby in his left leg/knee just after he shoots LHO. If it had arrived a second sooner, Ruby would have been hit harder before shooting and who knows if he could have still made the shot. In addition, at :16, you can see LHO's head really bounce hard against the ground, something I hadn't noticed before. Thanks Rick Edited February 11, 2020 by Rick McTague Added LHO hitting the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Rick McTague said: Chris, Watching that video from an angle that is rarely shown (usually, it's the video from another camera angle that shows LHO and not the police car), it has always struck me that the timing is ever so close when the car hits Ruby in his left leg/knee just after he shoots LHO. If it had arrived a second sooner, Ruby would have been hit harder before shooting and who knows if he could have still made the shot. In addition, at :16, you can see LHO's head really bounce hard against the ground, something I hadn't noticed before. Thanks Rick This video shows how close Jack Ruby was in getting his leg broken by the rear of the moving car. His leg is hit and even bent a little by the impact. An impact just a couple inches more into Ruby's leg and there could have been some serious bone breakage. I had never known of this part of the shooting until this video. Notice also, Oswald's feet are literally lifted off the ground from the impact of Ruby's shot combined with Leavelle and perhaps L.C. Graves pulling Oswald back at the same time. So, yes, Oswald may have fallen on his head with his feet off the ground. That would be quite an impact. I also just realized something else while watching this video. Those of us in America who witnessed Ruby whacking Oswald "live" on TV are actually an interesting part of one of this country's most important historical events. How many alive Americans today can say they were live TV witnesses to such an Earth Shaking historical event? Each year more and more of us live telecast witnesses pass away. I wish I had grand kids and who would care enough to want to know that their grand pappy actually witnessed such an important event in person ( through the TV ) and in live time. Other than the Ruby/Oswald story about the only other dramatic thing I ever experienced and could regale them with was my pet sitting of Joel Grey's and Barbara Eden's dogs while I was employed at Doris Day's Cypress Inn hotel in Carmel, Ca over ten years ago. Or perhaps also my up close UFO experience in Pebble Beach, CA 1996 or 97. Ha! Edited February 11, 2020 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Joe Bauer said, "Also, William. J. "Blackie" Harrison is the big cigar smoking fellow coming in from the right of Ruby even "before" Ruby got off the shot into Oswald. Harrison obviously noticed Ruby breaking out too far from the security line that Harrison had helped form and he was already putting his arm out to impede him." This frame shows that Harrison was already in his position when Oswald was shot. Captain Fritz as usual looks like he doesn't know whether to seek a restroom or an ophthalomologist. And, he doesn't react until several seconds later. His first reaction is to remove his cigar. OBTW, where are the people along the brick wall? Where did they go, Joe? You can see the shadow of the boom and mic, but no mic. Compare that to the following. Once again we have two separate realities in Dallas, TX. Then, Fritz finally reacts. Once again, where are the people standing along the brick wall. Oh my, there standing against that other wall. You know. That other wall. People often scoff when I say there is difficulty finding a true photo or film related to the Kennedy assassination or Harvey Oswald. Edited February 11, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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