The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

In retrospect, the best solution for global terrorism may have been not to create terrorism in the first place. I say "may" because there were probably geopolitical moves that were taken for good reason, and this unfortunately resulted in creating terrorists.

But that's water under the bridge. What's the best way to deal with it now?

If the U.S. is going to actively fight it, it appears that a good approach is with drone strikes. It's relatively inexpensive, the public is okay with it, there are do dead U.S. soldiers, and collateral damage is small.

Is there a better alternative?

 

You are probably right.

OTOH, about 100,000 Americans die each year in drug ODs, 46,000 more in auto accidents, and about 22,000 murders. 

I loath terrorists. On the other hand, terrorists are small bananas. 

Maintaining a global military edifice to fight terrorists seems unnecessary. 

Just IMHO. 

 

[John Cotter]

4 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

     I asked Mathew Koch which of three "reports" he was referring to-- the Congressional J6 Report,9 Mueller Report, or U.S. Senate Intel Report.  He didn't specify, so I briefly summarized the damning evidence in the J6 Report.

    Here is a fairly concise summary of the damning evidence in the (redacted) Mueller Report.

    Since Mathew never reads the reference links I post, I'll print this out for him.

KEY FINDINGS FROM THE MUELLER REPORT

 

 

The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity

 

•The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and compellingevidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department of Justice.

 

•Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.

 

•A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.

 

Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016

 

•Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.” (1)

 

•Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump (2) and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks. (3)

 

•Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining access to information for millions of registered voters.

 

(1) SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT S.MUELLER,III, U.S. DEP’T OF JUSTICE, REPORT ON THE INVESTIGATION INTO RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTION Vol. I, 1-5 (2019).

(2) Id. at Vol. I, 1-4, 14-35.

(3) Id. at Vol. I, 1-5, 36-50.

(4) Id. at Vol. I, 50-51.

 

The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage candidate Clinton”

 

 

•In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf of Trump while he was campaigning for President. (5) Then-candidate Trump personally signed a letter of intent.

 

•Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr., and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower, New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” (6)

 

Special Counsel Mueller explicitly declined to exonerate President Trump and instead detailed multiple episodes in which he engaged in obstructive conduct

 

 

•The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states that it “does not exonerate” the President (10) and explains that the Office of Special Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be indicted. (11)

 

•The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the

President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings with senior officials—is damning to the President.

 

•Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious:

 

In June 2017 President Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to order the firing of the Special Counsel after press reports that Mueller was investigating the President for obstruction of justice; (12) months later Trump asked McGahn to falsely refute press accounts reporting this directive and create a false paper record on this issue–all of which McGahn refused to do. (13)

 

After National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was fired in February 2017 for lying to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak, Trump cleared his office for a one-on-one meeting with then-FBI Director James Comey and asked Comey to “let [Flynn] go; ”he also asked then-Deputy National Security Advisor K.T. McFarland to draft an internal memo saying Trump did not direct Flynn to call Kislyak, which McFarland did not do because she did not know whether that was true. (14)

 

In July 2017, the President directed former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to instruct the Attorney General to limit Mueller’s investigation, a step the Report asserted “was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.” (15)

 

In 2017 and 2018, the President asked the Attorney General to “un-recuse” himself from the Mueller inquiry, actions from which a “reasonable inference” could be made that “the President believed that an un-recused Attorney General would play a protective role and could shield the President from the ongoing Russia Investigation.” (16)

 

The Report raises questions about whether the President, by and through his private attorneys, floated the possibility of pardons for the purpose of influencing the cooperation of Flynn, Manafort, and an unnamed person with law enforcement. (17)

 

(10) Id. at Vol. II, 8.

(11) Id.

(12) Mueller Report at Vol. II, 77-90.

(13) Id. at Vol. II, 113-18.

(14) Id. at Vol. II, 40-44.

(15) Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.

(16) Id. at Vol. II, 319-25.

(17) Id. at Vol. II, 332-45.

 

•Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.” (7)   A section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks. (8)

 

•The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators about Trump associate contacts with Russia.Trump associates George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false statements to Federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition, Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false statements, and one count of witness tampering.

 

•The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.

 

•The Report raised questions about why Trump and associates repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia. (9)

 

 

(5) Id. at Vol. I, 67-80.

(6) Id. at Vol. I, 110-20.

(7) Id. at Vol. I, 5.

(8) Id. at Vol. I, 51-54.

(9) Id. at Vol. II, 18-23.

 

Congress needs to continue investigating and assessing elements of the Mueller Report

 

 

•The redactions of the Mueller Report appear to conceal the extent to which the Trump campaign had advance knowledge of the release of hacked emails by WikiLeaks. For instance, redactions conceal content of discussions that the Report states occurred between Trump, Cohen, and Manafort in July 2016 shortly after Wikileaks released hacked emails; (18) the Report further notes,“Trump told Gates that more releases of damaging information would be coming,” but redacts the contextual information around that statement. (19) 

 

•A second issue the Report does not examine is the fact that the President was involved in conduct that was the subject of a case the Special Counsel referred to the Southern District of New York–which the Report notes “ultimately led to the conviction of Cohen in the Southern District of New York for campaign-finance offenses related to payments he said he made at the direction of the President.” (20)

 

•The Report also redacts in entirety its discussion of 12 of the 14 matters Mueller referred to other law enforcement authorities. (21)

 

•Further,the Report details non-cooperation with the inquiry by the President, including refusing requests by the Special Counsel for an interview; providing written responses that the Office of the Special Counsel considered “incomplete” and “imprecise” and that involved the President stating on “more than 30 occasions that he ‘does not recall’ or ‘remember’ or ‘have an independent recollection.’” (22)

 

 

(18) Id. at Vol. I, 53.

(19) Id. at Vol. I, 54.

(20) Id. at Vol. II, 77, fn. 500.

(21) Id. at Vol. II, Appendix D.

(22) Id. at Vol. II, Appendix C

 

Thanks for that, William, though a link to the article would have sufficed. 

There seems to be some ambiguity about the whole matter as suggested in the following extract from Wikipedia:

"The (Mueller) report concludes that the investigation 'did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.'"

It's also worth noting that on 1st December 2020 Attorney General William Barr stated, "FBI and Justice Department investigators found no evidence of irregularities that would have changed the outcome of the presidential election".

While it certainly seems there was much sculduggery going on, it remains the case that the main reason the Democrats lost the 2016 election was, as I've already said repeatedly, their chronic betrayal of of those who Hillary Clinton called the "deplorables".

[Joe Bauer]

52 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

OTOH, about 100,000 Americans die each year in drug ODs, 46,000 more in auto accidents, and about 22,000 murders. 

Those are some really sad statistics.

Include suicides as well. Especially young people doing this.

My biggest fears about the well being of my children have always been their safety on our California roads and highways, their personal safety when encountering or socializing with people of dysfunctional behavior and their never being able to earn and save enough money to live on their own in safe areas.

California is just too crowded, fast and expensive now compared to when I was young in the 50's and 60's.

Too diverse actually. Too divided and stressed economically and culturally. Homeless people are everywhere. Violent gangs are everywhere. Drugs everywhere. Rents criminally too high. Unchecked illegal immigration by the millions. 

Young people can't afford to pay rent on their own. Holding off marriage and having children even into their late thirties.

It's not too irrational to conclude that California is almost beyond saving as a healthy place to start a family anymore.

But, damn. The weather here and ocean shores and forest trees just make it hard to leave.

Someday, maybe our military priority obsessed government will realize that our nation and society is in too many ways crumbling from within...and needs massive military budget sized help to begin to heal the damage.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

36 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Thanks for that, William, though a link to the article would have sufficed. 

There seems to be some ambiguity about the whole matter as suggested in the following extract from Wikipedia:

"The (Mueller) report concludes that the investigation 'did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.'"

It's also worth noting that on 1st December 2020 Attorney General William Barr stated, "FBI and Justice Department investigators found no evidence of irregularities that would have changed the outcome of the presidential election".

While it certainly seems there was much sculduggery going on, it remains the case that the main reason the Democrats lost the 2016 election was, as I've already said repeatedly, their chronic betrayal of of those who Hillary Clinton called the "deplorables".

Briahna Joy Gray: LYIN' BIDEN Betrays Americans To Shill For Healthcare BARONS

 

 

Briahna Joy Gray is a big left-winger. 

Biden put the knife in the back of the railroad unions. 

It is painful to watch the modern Donk party.

The biggest issue the Donks have is that Trump is an ass. 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You are probably right.

OTOH, about 100,000 Americans die each year in drug ODs, 46,000 more in auto accidents, and about 22,000 murders. 

I loath terrorists. On the other hand, terrorists are small bananas. 

Maintaining a global military edifice to fight terrorists seems unnecessary. 

Just IMHO.

 

If the U.S. and other countries around the world didn't fight terrorism, it could spiral out of control and result in enormous global instability.

 

I'm no expert, but I'm gonna go with the "fight the terrorists" solution.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Those are some really sad statistics.

Include suicides as well. Especially young people doing this.

My biggest fears about the well being of my children have always been their safety on our California roads and highways, their personal safety when encountering or socializing with people of dysfunctional behavior and their never being able to earn and save enough money to live on their own in safe areas.

California is just too crowded, fast and expensive now compared to when I was young in the 50's and 60's.

Too diverse actually. Too divided and stressed economically and culturally. Homeless people are everywhere. Violent gangs are everywhere. Drugs everywhere. Rents criminally too high. Unchecked illegal immigration by the millions. 

Young people can't afford to pay rent on their own. Holding off marriage and having children even into their late thirties.

It's not too irrational to conclude that California is almost beyond saving as a healthy place to start a family anymore.

But, damn. The weather here and ocean shores and forest trees just make it hard to leave.

Someday, maybe our military priority obsessed government will realize that our nation and society is in too many ways crumbling from within...and needs massive military budget sized help to begin to heal the damage.

 

As a California native in your age bracket...agreed. 

The beaches, the deserts, the mountains, the weather. In the 1960s, it was just so cool, and anybody could a rent or buy place near the beach, in Redondo, Hermosa, Venice. Cultural amenities galore. No one ever talked about leaving. I was a die hard Dodgers fan.

I left about 10 years ago, for all the reasons you put forth. 

Los Angeles was a city born on third base, and then stole second. 

Sad what happened there. 

[Sandy Larsen]

48 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

While it certainly seems there was much sculduggery going on, it remains the case that the main reason the Democrats lost the 2016 election was, as I've already said repeatedly, their chronic betrayal of of those who Hillary Clinton called the "deplorables".

 

John,

If there was any single thing that lost the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton, it was the fact that the election was decided by the electoral college system. Because without that, Clinton would have won easily.

That said....

The Mueller Report states that the Russians DID interfere with the 2016 election, and it was their desire for Trump to win. What it doesn't do is state that Trump was involved in their scheme.

You shouldn't pay attention to what Barr said about the report. He obviously did all he could to help protect Trump, which he did by not releasing the report directly, but rather by "interpreting it."

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ok in this clip , I don't want to make fun of Peterson. I think his emotions  are real. To Chris and Matthew, Do you guys feel he's sticking up for you, here?

 

I am actually very glad you have posted this clip, Kirk. As it shows the tremendous humanity in a person who is cast as the most heinous things possible by the people who identify themselves as representatives of the neo-left wing ideology. You would regard yourself as a humanist, right, Kirk? 

Before I take the time to respond in a more comprehensive fashion, let me ask you something else? It looks as if you are trying to frame or imply that Matthew & I are incel’s. I am basing this initial thought on your linguistics and your past form of mischief. Could you confirm if this is your intention? 

I do think it’s an interesting topic and worthy of an honest discussion. 

[John Cotter]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

John,

If there was any single thing that lost the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton, it was the fact that the election was decided by the electoral college system. Because without that, Clinton would have won easily.

That said....

The Mueller Report states that the Russians DID interfere with the 2016 election, and it was their desire for Trump to win. What it doesn't do is state that Trump was involved in their scheme.

You shouldn't pay attention to what Barr said about the report. He obviously did all he could to help protect Trump, which he did by not releasing the report directly, but rather by "interpreting it."

 

Sandy, 

Since the Republicans are supposed to be the party of the rich, the Democrats the party of the non-rich, and the non-rich greatly outnumber the rich, why are the Dems and the Reps usually so close electorally?

[Matt Allison]

5 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Obama killed about 10,000 people with drones. He

joked to his staff about being a good killer. They

had a day each week when they would meet about

who to whack with drones.

This is quite a claim. What is the source?

[Matthew Koch]

20 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

This is quite a claim. What is the source?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the 2012 NYU study https://www.law.nyu.edu/news/GLOBAL_JUSTICE_CLINIC_DRONES_REPORT

[Guest]

#1984 

“Army spied on lockdown critics: Sceptics, including our own Peter Hitchens, long suspected they were under surveillance. Now we've obtained official records that prove they were right all along .” 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11687675/amp/Army-spied-lockdown-critics-Sceptics-including-Peter-Hitchens-suspected-watched.html

Edited January 29, 2023 by Chris Barnard

[Sandy Larsen]

34 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Since the Republicans are supposed to be the party of the rich, the Democrats the party of the non-rich, and the non-rich greatly outnumber the rich, why are the Dems and the Reps usually so close electorally?

 

Not only do Democrats and Republicans usually vote close electorally, but in the popular vote as well.

If we compare policies of the two parties, Democrats are the party for the non-rich and Republicans are the party for the rich. This is obvious... compare for example Obamacare, passed by Democrats, to Trump's tax cut, passed by the Republicans. The former benefits low-income folks, whereas the latter benefits the wealthy.

But if we're talking about party membership, that's a whole different ballgame. Republican politicians have become experts at getting low-income folks -- who one would think would be Democrats -- to become Republicans and vote against their own economic interests. They use, for example, 2nd amendment rights and the pro-life issue to appeal to segments of the population. At the same time they try to make it look as though their policies are in the best interests of low income people, when in fact they are not.

The Republican Party and right-wing media have had to become more and more deceitful over the years in order to get enough votes to continue winning elections. This explains why the Republican/Democratic vote has remained fairly close over the years.

 

[Matthew Koch]

15 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Not only do Democrats and Republicans usually vote close electorally, but in the popular vote as well.

If we compare policies of the two parties, Democrats are the party for the non-rich and Republicans are the party for the rich. This is obvious... compare for example Obamacare, passed by Democrats, to Trump's tax cut, passed by the Republicans. The former benefits low-income folks, whereas the latter benefits the wealthy.

But if we're talking about party membership, that's a whole different ballgame. Republican politicians have become experts at getting low-income folks -- who one would think would be Democrats -- to become Republicans and vote against their own economic interests. They use, for example, 2nd amendment rights and the pro-life issue to appeal to segments of the population. At the same time they try to make it look as though their policies are in the best interests of low income people, when in fact they are not.

The Republican Party and right-wing media have had to become more and more deceitful over the years in order to get enough votes to continue winning elections. This explains why the Republican/Democratic vote has remained fairly close over the years.

 

Obama care where if you didn't buy private insurance the government fines you. Democrat plan for health care is to punish people for not buying it.. aka Fascism. Trump tax cuts allowed people to have more money and when you have more money you can get on a health insurance plan if your company doesn't have one. How does Nancy Pelosi and Bloomberg fit into your false Rich vs Poor narrative, Sandy? Classy Joe Biden got rich how? 

Conservative usually refers to if you are for putting the government in debt for a program or if you believe in God or the Founding Fathers and their constitution and bill of rights. And as we are now seeing with left policies like Defund the Police and teaching common core math and lowering standards because certain minorities can't meet them has only been disastrous to the country. The left has turned anti christian and anti family pro illegal immigration and anti white people. Cant run a country when half of it is saying the other half is Fascist and the left has fallen prey to this globalist brain washing. 

Russia Gate debunks everything you last said about media. You're still saying Muller report did something when it didn't prove collusion or that Russia influenced the election. Left media is extremely dishonest look at Rachel Maddow who not only pushed Russiagate hoax she says Lee Harvey Oswald Shot JFK and Look and Tucker, who has debunked Russiagate, and UkraineGate, and J6 Fedsurrection who says CIA shot JFK. 

 

[Matthew Koch]

12 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Are we going to be seeing endless clips about Jordan Peterson now? I've heard he's marketing an online university around himself now!.

 

For those who don't know,Jordan Peterson has created a cult as a  sort of authoritarian "tough love" disciple to struggling young white male Christians.  In this debate with Sam Harris,at 1:50 :50 he alleges that if he contemplates 40 hours in his man cave. (or wherever!) He can come out and prove Christ's insurrection!

 

IMO, Following that is just being lost, I understand maybe he provided some help to you prior to ever hearing him make these claims.  But at a certain point, when you hear this. It should be an epiphany for you. At this point, you have 2 choices , to stay with him or to split. It doesn't negate what he did for you. I'd say don't sell your self short, but maybe you're not.

Of course Kirk would be into pseudo intellectual and morally bankrupt Sam Harris:

 

Here's where Sam was bummed that more kids didn't die from Covid

https://www.foxnews.com/media/podcaster-sam-harris-covid-killed-children-f-ing-patience-vaccine-skeptics