Milicent Cranor on Last Second in Dallas

[James DiEugenio]

In my opinion, Mili Cranor is one of the best we have on the autopsy and the ballistics evidence.  She does not have a lot of letters behind her name.  But she knows the evidence as well as anyone I know.

In her review of Thompson's new book, part one deals with the "later shot" that Tink advocates for, the one after the 313 head shot.

In part two, she debates Thompson's idea of the throat wound being caused by a piece of skull matter.  its a mixed review, but she ends up deeming the book an overall favorable rating.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/a-slice-of-time-review-of-josiah-thompson-s-last-second-in-dallas

Edited April 23, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

In my opinion, Mili Cranor is one of the best we have on the autopsy and the ballistics evidence.  She does not have a lot of letters behind her name.  But she knows the evidence as well as anyone I know.

In her review of Thompson's new book, part one deals with the "later shot" that Tink advocates for, the one after the 313 head shot.

In part two, she debates Thompson's idea of the throat wound being caused by a piece of skull matter.  its a mixed review, but she ends up deeming the book an overall favorable rating.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/a-slice-of-time-review-of-josiah-thompson-s-last-second-in-dallas

Great stuff from Milicent Cranor. 

I have stayed away from whether JFK was shot front to back, or otherwise, as I have concluded JFK and Connally were not struck by the same bullet (watch the Z film). So JFK's head wound comes too close, time-wise, to Connally's wounds, to have been executed by a single-shot bolt action rifle. Ergo, at least a second gunman. 

Plus, you have dozens of experienced witnesses (vets, cops) smelling gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza, in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. 

So, somebody shot at JFK in Dealey Plaza, and maybe more than one person from behind. That means a conspiracy. 

This is just the basics, indisputable. 

You have to lie through your teeth with a forked tongue---like Life magazine---to present a different picture. 

 

 

[Larry Hancock]

Always great to hear Milli weigh in...!

 

[James DiEugenio]

To be perfectly honest, I was never aware of this many witnesses to that later shot.

So I am glad she collected them.

Also, something else that she and Tink point out. The different perspectives of the witnesses on Kennedy's right, with those on his left. Bob Tanenbaum also pointed this out to me.

[Micah Mileto]

59 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

To be perfectly honest, I was never aware of this many witnesses to that later shot.

So I am glad she collected them.

Also, something else that she and Tink point out. The different perspectives of the witnesses on Kennedy's right, with those on his left. Bob Tanenbaum also pointed this out to me.

Haven't you seen Pat Speer's chapters on the Dealey Plaza witnesses? There aren't really any good reasons to think a loud report happened any time before the z180-220's

[Micah Mileto]

https://old.reddit.com/r/JFKsubmissions/comments/ds3q7h/discussing_jfks_torso_wounds_contents/

 

Part 8-27 of this post discusses the "Throat wound ignorance" issue in a lot more detail.

[James DiEugenio]

Micah:

I think you misunderstood my first comment.

I have read Pat Speer.  What Tink, and Mili are talking about is a shot past 313.  Does Pat deal with that issue? 

As per you link, I mean Micah, that guy wrote a book.  

[Vince Palamara]

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

In my opinion, Mili Cranor is one of the best we have on the autopsy and the ballistics evidence.  She does not have a lot of letters behind her name.  But she knows the evidence as well as anyone I know.

I

I agree, Jim! It is a very pleasant surprise to see her active again. She was very active in the mid-to-late 1990's, then vanished.

[Vince Palamara]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Micah:

I think you misunderstood my first comment.

I have read Pat Speer.  What Tink, and Mili are talking about is a shot past 313.  Does Pat deal with that issue? 

As per you link, I mean Micah, that guy wrote a book.  

Jim--why did ALL the Paine experts (Steven Jones, Barbara LaMonica, and Carol Hewett) all seemingly retire? Kathleen Cunningham (guru on the medical evidence) donated her whole archive to some Florida university and retired about 20 years ago, while once prominent researcher Bill Adams from California likewise disappeared about 20 years ago.

[James DiEugenio]

Very unfortunate.  Carol, Steve and LaMonica have all gone from the scene.  They are not active anymore. I actually think Carol retired from her law practice, and sold her house.  Steve still lives in Lancaster PA.  

And you are correct about the other two also. I think Kathleen got divorced and moved out of Ocala.  I only met Bill once.

I think some of it is that this type of work is really draining.  And there is almost no reward for it. Heck there is almost no recognition for it either.  I mean we know what happens with the MSM right?  So I think some of these people just got tired of what they saw as a rather unrewarding effort. 

I am glad Mili stayed involved though.

 

[James DiEugenio]

There is another conversation going on about the Thompson book by Mark Tyler.

I wonder, does he agree with both the book and Mili Cranor that there was a shot past 313?  

I think that evidence is pretty good. And today, that is agreed to by Groden and Mantik as well as Cranor.

Secondly, I think Mark is convinced by the Dave Wimp presentation also about the blur illusion.

 

[Mark Tyler]

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There is another conversation going on about the Thompson book by Mark Tyler.

I wonder, does he agree with both the book and Mili Cranor that there was a shot past 313?  

I think that evidence is pretty good. And today, that is agreed to by Groden and Mantik as well as Cranor.

I think Milicent Cranor is 100% correct about a late shot fired after Z313.  Crucially Emmett Hudson and Charles Brehm not only mention a shot after the head shot, they spoke about the shots they heard being spaced out enough for a bolt action gun to be used.  This suggests to me that they were talking about 3 or more seconds after the head shot.  Some witnesses like Mary Moorman even refer to two shots after the head shot.

This late shot or shots should not be confused with the witnesses who described a BANG-BANG at the time of the head shot.  Witnesses like Linda Willis, George Hickey, and Sam Holland said that both of those shots were fired at the time of the head shot and were almost simultaneous.

In a nutshell, my reading of the Dealey Plaza witnesses is that there were three audible bursts of gunfire around these approximate times:
Z190-Z230
Z290-Z330
Z360-Z380

It's probably a moot point whether each burst had one or two shots in it, but I am suspicious about the Z190-Z230 burst because of the massive jiggle we see during Z190-Z210 of the Zapruder film (which implies a shot fired just before which startled Zapruder).  The victims start reacting to their injuries at Z225, but a 2 second delayed reaction seems unlikely, so I conclude there were two shots fired in two seconds, which requires two gunmen.  John Connally said he wasn't hit by the first shot, and was hit 2 seconds later which fits this Z-film pattern perfectly.

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Secondly, I think Mark is convinced by the Dave Wimp presentation also about the blur illusion.

Indeed, David Wimp has exposed a very nasty optical illusion that has tricked people for decades.  @Josiah Thompson deserves a lot of credit for revising his view of frames Z313-Z314 in his recent book.

[Dan Rice]

2 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

In a nutshell, my reading of the Dealey Plaza witnesses is that there were three audible bursts of gunfire around these approximate times:
Z190-Z230
Z290-Z330
Z360-Z380

What would the shooter(s) be shooting at during frames 360-380?  It appears that the target would no longer be exposed.

[David G. Healy]

17 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There is another conversation going on about the Thompson book by Mark Tyler.

I wonder, does he agree with both the book and Mili Cranor that there was a shot past 313?  

I think that evidence is pretty good. And today, that is agreed to by Groden and Mantik as well as Cranor.

Secondly, I think Mark is convinced by the Dave Wimp presentation also about the blur illusion.

 

there isn't one film anomaly in the extent Zapruder film (currently at NARA) that can not be created if post film production, PERIOD! That includes blur and film "shakiness"... Also, I suspect Dr. David Mantik can affirm Dr. John Costella's (both with Ph.D's. in Physics) presentation on the Zapruder Film, way back in 2003 at Duluth, Minn. I was at that presentation.

Dave Wimp is not an unknown entity in Z-film alteration, nor is Gary Mack, Thompson and the remaining Gang of 8 we became so fond of at that 2003-2004 time...

see:  https://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/blur.html

and then there's this:   https://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax/healy.html.  

My contribution to possible Zapruder film alteration and Wimp/Durnovich assault, And I haven't heard from Wimp since... the Zapruder film presentation is still available on YouTube, been there since 2004. Costello, Fetzer, White, Mantik, Lifton and myself segments included...

[Mark Tyler]

6 hours ago, Dan Rice said:

What would the shooter(s) be shooting at during frames 360-380?  It appears that the target would no longer be exposed.

Good question Dan!  There can't have been much of a target available as the Z375 frame shows:

Also, during Z360-Z380 the presidential limo was accelerating away at about 14-20 MPH and started to turn towards the right hand lane in Elm Street.  By frame Z400 the Altgens 7 photo shows the limo starting the cross the white line between lanes:

The limo zig-zagging was mentioned by Charles Brehm as he identified when the final shot was fired (at about 1:40 in this 1986 mock trial video):

I assume this last missed shot came from the TSBD as I accept that three shots originated from the sixth floor window, so one shot in each burst must have come from that source (regardless of how many shots, if any, came from other locations).

With this shot missing the target due to the limo taking evasive action (or maybe it was a deliberate miss?), the bullet probably ended up hitting the road or the grass nearby.  Royce Skelton and Bill Decker (who is just visible in the rear left seat of the lead car in the Altgens 7 photo above) both said they saw something hit the road at the end of the shooting.  I've not been able to independently verify this claim with a photo of a pothole in the road, but it is a reasonable possibility.

Although no other witnesses reported seeing a pothole in the road, the Harper bone fragment from JFK's head wound wasn't found in Dealey Plaza until the day after the assassination.  If the hundreds of people traipsing around the crime scene missed a piece of skull, then they could also have missed a pothole in the road.  After the immediate fuss of the crime scene faded, nobody would have had a reason to associate a pothole with the shooting, which is possibly why it never came to light (if it did ever exist).