COUP IN DALLAS

[Leslie Sharp]

On 9/15/2022 at 11:07 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Please continue Leslie.  The Monterrey Language Institute, in relation to Oswald?

No Ron, I was hoping to discuss Monterrey with Michael Griffiths as I have a couple of friends he may have crossed paths with. 

[Paul Brancato]

On 9/13/2022 at 3:18 PM, Michael Griffith said:

Well, here goes: On the off chance that anyone wants to read some conservative articles about the January 6 riot and the January 6 committee, see below. These articles debunk the major myths that most news outlets have been repeating about the riot and the committee--I've seen the same myths repeated several times in this thread and in others.

https://spectator.org/jan-6-seven-democrat-lies/

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/january-6-insurrection-hoax/

https://100percentfedup.com/the-six-biggest-lies-about-january-6th/

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-truth-happened-jan-6-unknown

https://www.nationandstate.com/2022/08/08/sperry-lies-damned-lies-the-january-6-committee/

Amazing how you criticize Albarelli for taking aim at the Right and then post articles so far on the very same Right that Hank was railing against, rightfully. It’s not that we (me) don’t read what Fox or the Spectator or whomever has to say, it’s that we see it for the garbage that it is. One of the tenets of critical thinking is that you cannot logically just substitute an opposing point of view and claim it has equal weight. Facts are important. 
I am in agreement about one thing regarding Jan 6 - the crowd, or mob, wasn’t particularly well armed. This doesn’t mean there wasn’t intent to disrupt the vote count. And it’s possible that some had their arms confiscated before the March to the capital. But generally it’s clear that they could have brought their assault weapons if they had wanted to, and so I question why they didn’t. This question is as yet unanswered, at least publicly. My guess is they were advised not to do so, precisely so they could claim innocence of intent to harm. It looked more like a dry run to me, in preparation for something very different in the future, and to see how things would transpire.

[David Lifton]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Amazing how you criticize Albarelli for taking aim at the Right and then post articles so far on the very same Right that Hank was railing against, rightfully. It’s not that we (me) don’t read what Fox or the Spectator or whomever has to say, it’s that we see it for the garbage that it is. One of the tenets of critical thinking is that you cannot logically just substitute an opposing point of view and claim it has equal weight. Facts are important. 
I am in agreement about one thing regarding Jan 6 - the crowd, or mob, wasn’t particularly well armed. This doesn’t mean there wasn’t intent to disrupt the vote count. And it’s possible that some had their arms confiscated before the March to the capital. But generally it’s clear that they could have brought their assault weapons if they had wanted to, and so I question why they didn’t. This question is as yet unanswered, at least publicly. My guess is they were advised not to do so, precisely so they could claim innocence of intent to harm. It looked more like a dry run to me, in preparation for something very different in the future, and to see how things would transpire.

Paul: I'm a subscriber to the NY times, which arrives every day about 3 AM.  Late last night (as I recall), the NY Times contained an interesting obit of a famous female violinist.  I did not make proper written notes, so I cannot provide the name. But hopefully, using Google, you can dig up that story.  Best, DSL (9/1722; 2:30 PM PDT)

[David Lifton]

On 9/15/2022 at 10:07 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Please continue Leslie.  The Monterrey Language Institute, in relation to Oswald?

 

On 9/15/2022 at 10:07 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Please continue Leslie.  The Monterrey Language Institute, in relation to Oswald?

FWIW: Many years ago,  I used to believe that LHO's demonstrated fluency in Russian arose from his having attended--i.e., received language training at -- DLI (Defense Language Institute) at Monterey, California.  That view changed, however, when (a) it became clear that there was no credible record of his having attended DLI, and (b) there was another explanation.  

The alternate explanation: I learned that there was someone in SoCal (in the Santa Ana area, i.e., not far from El Toro Marine Base) who was tutoring certain Marines in Russian.  (I'm relying on memory, here; and will correct this post, as necessary).  I've left a telephone message with my source; and if I can retrieve that info, I will provide it here.

 Years ago, DLI certainly seemed like a reasonable hypothesis, but I no longer subscribe to it.  It (the answer to Oswald's fluency) was not his "secret attendance" at DLI (for which there is no record), but rather a private tutor.  LHO needed (i.e, required) a "dialogue partner" to explain his sudden Russian fluency --i.e., between 12/1958, when he returned to El Toro from Japan; and June 1959 (when his language fluency was superior to that of the Pan Am stewardess [Rosaleen Quinn], who he briefly dated, and who testified that LHO spoke more fluently than she did).  

If LHO did not attend DLI, how was this linguistic capability achieved?  A private tutor would explain LHO's fluency (not to mention the fact that --apparently-- he had a natural gift for languages. Another topic). 

ASIDE: Someone can "learn Russian" -- i.e., achieve a basic vocabulary-- by memorizing words in a Russian-English dictionary; but that would not account for Oswald's apparent fluency in the language, i.e., when spoken.

DSL (9/17/22_ 3:45 PM PDT)

P.S.  Had LHO attended DLI in the spring of 1959, there would have been a classroom full of individuals who --when LHO defected in October 1959 (an event which made the national news) -- would have exclaimed, "Hey, that  guy was in our class at DLI!"  There is no such evidence.  So there must be some "other" explanation, since LHO's apparent fluency --certainly by June 1959 (when he went out with Rosalyn Quinn)  -- cannot be denied. (9/17/22_ 3:55 PM PDT)

Edited September 17, 2022 by David Lifton
Clarification; fixing syntax.

[Joseph McBride]

Some of the 1/6 Capitol attackers were armed (it's not

entirely clear how many and with what), but a reason many

were not is that carrying handguns is illegal in DC,

and they didn't want to get stopped and arrested

for that violation. There were, however, caches of weapons

in hotels and motels just outside DC ready and waiting to be

brought in if some of the ringleaders gave the

signal. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Joseph McBride

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Some of the 1/6 Capitol attackers were armed (it's not

entirely clear how many and with what), but a reason many

were not is that carrying handguns is illegal in DC,

and they didn't want to get stopped and arrested

for that violation. There were, however, caches of weapons

in hotels just outside DC ready and waiting to be

brought in if some of the ringleaders gave the

signal. 

Thanks for that info.

[Paul Brancato]

17 hours ago, David Lifton said:

Paul: I'm a subscriber to the NY times, which arrives every day about 3 AM.  Late last night (as I recall), the NY Times contained an interesting obit of a famous female violinist.  I did not make proper written notes, so I cannot provide the name. But hopefully, using Google, you can dig up that story.  Best, DSL (9/1722; 2:30 PM PDT)

I knew Jorja Fleezanis well, though I hadn’t seen her in a few decades. We were SF Symphony colleagues for several years. A wonderful musicians and human.

[Bob Ness]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:51 AM, Leslie Sharp said:

No Ron, I was hoping to discuss Monterrey with Michael Griffiths as I have a couple of friends he may have crossed paths with. 

Let me guess. Homer and Bart Simpon?

[Benjamin Cole]

On 9/14/2022 at 5:18 AM, Michael Griffith said:

Well, here goes: On the off chance that anyone wants to read some conservative articles about the January 6 riot and the January 6 committee, see below. These articles debunk the major myths that most news outlets have been repeating about the riot and the committee--I've seen the same myths repeated several times in this thread and in others.

https://spectator.org/jan-6-seven-democrat-lies/

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/january-6-insurrection-hoax/

https://100percentfedup.com/the-six-biggest-lies-about-january-6th/

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-truth-happened-jan-6-unknown

https://www.nationandstate.com/2022/08/08/sperry-lies-damned-lies-the-january-6-committee/

I disagree with Mike Griffith on some issues, but he provides counterpoints in the forum, and should be treated with respect. Otherwise it just becomes an echo chamber. 

The MSM treatment of 1/6 has been biased.

Even more---the MSM-Donk alliance is in such a fever, that truth went out the window (think Wuhan lab leak censorship, the Brian Sicknick story, the Hunter Biden laptop story, the Russiagate Hoax).

The Donk-MSM embrace of the Deep State is complete (CIA-FBI-NSA officials and former officials feted nightly on TV). 

There was a scrum at the Capitol on 1/6. That clump of people had zero chance of taking over the US government. It appears there were some bad actors in the scrum, such as Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. 

And possibly lots of federal assets. And why the 3,500-officer Capitol Police decided to show up light, and then stand down has never been examined.

Stay skeptical.  

[Bob Ness]

On 9/13/2022 at 3:18 PM, Michael Griffith said:

Well, here goes: On the off chance that anyone wants to read some conservative articles about the January 6 riot and the January 6 committee, see below. These articles debunk the major myths that most news outlets have been repeating about the riot and the committee--I've seen the same myths repeated several times in this thread and in others.

https://spectator.org/jan-6-seven-democrat-lies/

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/january-6-insurrection-hoax/

https://100percentfedup.com/the-six-biggest-lies-about-january-6th/

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-truth-happened-jan-6-unknown

https://www.nationandstate.com/2022/08/08/sperry-lies-damned-lies-the-january-6-committee/

Thanks a lot for derailing and then hijacking this thread with a bunch of absolute garbage you've picked at random from a Google search addressing subjects for which you know nothing about. I'll take the first article replete with lies and inaccuracies, then leave the subject and get back to Anthony's original subject.

Lie#1: Any clown trying to say they were not armed should be invited to get hosed down with bear spray and have a fire extinguisher thrown at their face. For you to claim the LEO people weren't confronted with armed and violent protesters attacking them is ludicrous and disgusting as you know very well many of those people were in peril and for whatever reason only shot one person. I wouldn't have been so restrained under those circumstances.

He states that not a single protestor was charged with Treason - this is why you shouldn't engage in stuff you don't know jack about. He knows his audience though - if they buy Trump they'll buy anything as long as you "own the libs".  THEY CAN'T BE CHARGED WITH TREASON. Treason is charged when a US citizen is aiding an enemy of the United States - say Germany in WW2. They get charged with SEDITION or SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY. The DoJ has charged over 200 with a comparable charge instead which carries the same penalty. I don't keep track - many have flipped, some convicted - how can you believe that XXXXX?

Lie#2: McCarthy, McConnell, and virtually ALL of the slithering XXXXX bags that pose as Republicans including Tucker Carlson blamed Trump for the riot until they woke from their lethargy and figured out they had to kow-tow to their stupid base or lose. Fact.

Lie#3: Classic whataboutism which appeals to senseless idiots when no other defense is available. "You're a hypocrite!" Juvenile debate that may go well when you're in seventh grade. Here's a whataboutism: How about the phony slate of electors from 7 states that are currently being investigated for signing and submitting fraudulent documents to NARA?

Lie#4: I don't have any particular beef with saying the deaths were overblown but none-the-less injuries occurred and one person did die.

Lie#5: This is a classic also. Comparing the attack on Pearl Harbor - an attack on our country - with a coup attempt - an attack on our democracy - is a straw man argument. The civil war and 1/6  were attacks specifically intended to change our government or subvert the will of the voters - the single most important right we have that is superior to all others. All other rights spring from the right to vote. So yes, this was the most serious attack on democracy since the civil war. Dopes like Glenn Greenwald who were peddling this crepe to gullible readers have no excuse for floating that one. They're scum because I can assure you that is Civics 101 (even if you don't know that). The dumbass who wrote the article you posted may not when you consider the rest of the tripe in the article. 

Lie#6: Please see above for an explanation on that.

Lie#7: His opinion based on who's paying him. Utter crap. "They'll exploit anything!" You peddle this XXXXX?

I'm likely to ignore any response so don't bother. It would be nice if you'd quit hijacking threads though. Particularly with that garbage. 

[Ron Ege]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I disagree with Mike Griffith on some issues, but he provides counterpoints in the forum, and should be treated with respect. Otherwise it just becomes an echo chamber. 

The MSM treatment of 1/6 has been biased.

Even more---the MSM-Donk alliance is in such a fever, that truth went out the window (think Wuhan lab leak censorship, the Brian Sicknick story, the Hunter Biden laptop story, the Russiagate Hoax).

The Donk-MSM embrace of the Deep State is complete (CIA-FBI-NSA officials and former officials feted nightly on TV). 

There was a scrum at the Capitol on 1/6. That clump of people had zero chance of taking over the US government. It appears there were some bad actors in the scrum, such as Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. 

And possibly lots of federal assets. And why the 3,500-officer Capitol Police decided to show up light, and then stand down has never been examined.

Stay skeptical.  

Ben,

As always, thanks for your caution, along with some clarity.

'Twas early in '67, skepticism (of the media in particular) became my everyday watchword - directly after I finished reading Josiah Thompon's SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS.  

At that moment, a quote that I had read somewhere, whilst I was still in high school - "Trust nothing you hear and half of everything you see" - hit home.  Though I grant many consider that quote to be an exaggeration, considering that we've witnessed over the past six decades - well, I'd rather err on safe side.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuf

I haven't run into anyone yet, that considers NPR to be "extreme right wing".

And we have this - similarly reported at other sites:

Yes, Trump ‘Offered’ to Send the Guard to DC for Jan 6, and Yes, Democrats Rejected it Until Too late - American Defense News

Eventually, as has with the JFK Assassination - truth will out.

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

Ben,

As always, thanks for your caution, along with some clarity.

'Twas early in '67, skepticism (of the media in particular) became my everyday watchword - directly after I finished reading Josiah Thompon's SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS.  

At that moment, a quote that I had read somewhere, whilst I was still in high school - "Trust nothing you hear and half of everything you see" - hit home.  Though I grant many consider that quote to be an exaggeration, considering that we've witnessed over the past six decades - well, I'd rather err on safe side.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuf

I haven't run into anyone yet, that considers NPR to be "extreme right wing".

And we have this - similarly reported at other sites:

Yes, Trump ‘Offered’ to Send the Guard to DC for Jan 6, and Yes, Democrats Rejected it Until Too late - American Defense News

Eventually, as has with the JFK Assassination - truth will out.

 

 

 

Ron E-

Let's face it: The two entrenched US political parties---and their allies in the media---have become deeply mercenary, cynical and corrupted. 

The 1/6 scrum may have been manufactured. Notice I use the word "may."  I realize the fashion is to first have a bias, and then make all evidence fit the bias. But I will stick with "may." 

I can tell you this: The 1/6 committee hearings have been an extended show trial--a cousin to the Warren Commission.

Ponder, in both the WC and the 1/6 Committee: 

1. Only the prosecution presented evidence, and that evidence was unchallenged. There is no defense counsel. 

2. Only the prosecution presented witnesses, hand chosen and curated for effect. Those witnesses were unchallenged. 

3. The narrative, the unfolding story, was controlled by prosecutors. 

4. The media, which is mostly compliant anyway, is left to report on the witnesses and evidence presented, on daily deadlines. 

5. There is no judge to even try to make hearing formats impartial or fair.  

6. Many appeals are made to emotions, or patriotism, which generally play well in the media. 

7. As in wartime movies, the good side is humanized. They have faces, family stories, tales of valor. The bad side is faceless, only bad. In the M$M, the sole 1/6 riot participant to be humanized was...Ray Epps. A provocateur caught on camera, right up to the moment of the first breach (where Epps was present). But, the NYT says, a guy who loves his dogs, and has been unfairly harried by (anonymous) Trumpers. 

None of this makes Trump a nice guy. He appears to be a bombastic boor. So be it. He may be the least of our worries. 

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:46 PM, David Lifton said:

 

FWIW: Many years ago,  I used to believe that LHO's demonstrated fluency in Russian arose from his having attended--i.e., received language training at -- DLI (Defense Language Institute) at Monterey, California.  That view changed, however, when (a) it became clear that there was no credible record of his having attended DLI, and (b) there was another explanation.  

The alternate explanation: I learned that there was someone in SoCal (in the Santa Ana area, i.e., not far from El Toro Marine Base) who was tutoring certain Marines in Russian.  (I'm relying on memory, here; and will correct this post, as necessary).  I've left a telephone message with my source; and if I can retrieve that info, I will provide it here.

 Years ago, DLI certainly seemed like a reasonable hypothesis, but I no longer subscribe to it.  It (the answer to Oswald's fluency) was not his "secret attendance" at DLI (for which there is no record), but rather a private tutor.  LHO needed (i.e, required) a "dialogue partner" to explain his sudden Russian fluency --i.e., between 12/1958, when he returned to El Toro from Japan; and June 1959 (when his language fluency was superior to that of the Pan Am stewardess [Rosaleen Quinn], who he briefly dated, and who testified that LHO spoke more fluently than she did).  

If LHO did not attend DLI, how was this linguistic capability achieved?  A private tutor would explain LHO's fluency (not to mention the fact that --apparently-- he had a natural gift for languages. Another topic). 

ASIDE: Someone can "learn Russian" -- i.e., achieve a basic vocabulary-- by memorizing words in a Russian-English dictionary; but that would not account for Oswald's apparent fluency in the language, i.e., when spoken.

DSL (9/17/22_ 3:45 PM PDT)

P.S.  Had LHO attended DLI in the spring of 1959, there would have been a classroom full of individuals who --when LHO defected in October 1959 (an event which made the national news) -- would have exclaimed, "Hey, that  guy was in our class at DLI!"  There is no such evidence.  So there must be some "other" explanation, since LHO's apparent fluency --certainly by June 1959 (when he went out with Rosalyn Quinn)  -- cannot be denied. (9/17/22_ 3:55 PM PDT)

I'd never thought about Oswald being stationed at El Torro.  It surprised me but makes sense.  I knew he went to basic training in Southern California which I inferred was Camp/Fort Pendleton just north of San Diego on the coast.  Then he received his radar training in Mississippi.  From there all I remember reading about was U2, Atsugi, Japan.  Of course, he would have been stationed somewhere after radar training before shipping out and after coming back before his discharge.  Having researched El Torro a little I already knew it was the largest USMC aviation base in the US.  Built in the country outside LA (now Irvine) at the start of WWII it was still very active in the late 1950's.  I should have realized he would have been stationed there.

This caught my attention because it means Oswald had this in common with my dad.  As a Marine Corp reservist working in the MIC (Vought) with a pilot's license in 1950 when Korea came about, he was called into service.  Put on a train to California overseeing two raw recruits due to his Army/Sargent status at the end of WWII he ended up at El Torro, they went to Pendleton.  He only had to serve six months; all there, never went to Korea.

As an aside.  While there, soon after his arrival he became the base general's crew chief on his C47/Gooneybird/DC3 by good fortune.  Also, soon after his arrival the film Flying Leathernecks was shot in part at El Torro (the had lots of Corsair's there).  Because of a very small role in procuring an airplane for use in the film he went to steaks and drinks in a tent with officers and host John Wayne. 

[Richard Price]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

None of this makes Trump a nice guy. He appears to be a bombastic boor. So be it. He may be the least of our worries.

Benjamin, you really need to watch and listen to the hearings.  Just about all the points you made to show how it is like the Warren Commission, the committee members have stated at one point of the televised hearings.  They have repeatedly said that they are presenting facts to the American citizens in order that they may make informed decisions and are NOT a prosecutorial body and do not bring charges to be judged in court.  Trump is not the least of our worries, he is the causative agent just as was A. H. in Germany.  Just as in Germany, the only solution will be to remove from him the ability to incite and inflame.  I will also note that you said "our worries".  Your worries are minor (in my opinion) to those of us who may be having to take to the streets and quell the insurrection that he continues to foment.  I do pray that our worries will be no worse than yours and that the legal system doesn't fail us, and by that, I mean that he is prosecuted, found guilty and given an appropriate sentence for the crimes he has and is committing.  Though I cannot think of one, other than death, which would be severe enough.  Thousands whom he enticed and seduced to try to achieve his goals have been fined, lost their livelihood, or been imprisoned and yet he has a tee time every day and doesn't ever think of a single one of them.  Just like in his speech FOR J. D. Vance a night or so ago when he said out loud for the audience to hear, "J. D.'s kissing my A$$, he wants my support..."

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Benjamin, you really need to watch and listen to the hearings.  Just about all the points you made to show how it is like the Warren Commission, the committee members have stated at one point of the televised hearings.  They have repeatedly said that they are presenting facts to the American citizens in order that they may make informed decisions and are NOT a prosecutorial body and do not bring charges to be judged in court.  Trump is not the least of our worries, he is the causative agent just as was A. H. in Germany.  Just as in Germany, the only solution will be to remove from him the ability to incite and inflame.  I will also note that you said "our worries".  Your worries are minor (in my opinion) to those of us who may be having to take to the streets and quell the insurrection that he continues to foment.  I do pray that our worries will be no worse than yours and that the legal system doesn't fail us, and by that, I mean that he is prosecuted, found guilty and given an appropriate sentence for the crimes he has and is committing.  Though I cannot think of one, other than death, which would be severe enough.  Thousands whom he enticed and seduced to try to achieve his goals have been fined, lost their livelihood, or been imprisoned and yet he has a tee time every day and doesn't ever think of a single one of them.  Just like in his speech FOR J. D. Vance a night or so ago when he said out loud for the audience to hear, "J. D.'s kissing my A$$, he wants my support..."

Trump strikes me as a bombastic boor with more personality flaws than any other dozen men put together. 

Let us see what charges are filed against Trump, and if he has a fair trial with active and skillful defense counsel. 

So far, not a scrap of evidence has emerged connecting Trump to the 1/6 scrum. No texts, e-mails, phone calls, letters, intercepted communiques of any sort. 

Trump followed advice of counsel (the dubious Eastman) on constitutional methods to challenge the election.  As we saw, Trump saw defeat on his half-baked constitutional measures, and then vacated the office. 

Trump's phone calls to Georgia are very interesting, and possibly incriminating, I look forward to an open court resolution of that matter.

I will say it again: Trump could take a trip to Mars tomorrow.

You would still be left with a $1.4 trillion Deep State (DoD,VA, black budget, pro-rated interest on the national debt), 17 intel agencies, and a globalized, hyper-mobilized and mercenary US military establishment. 

Trump is an orange bonsai tree in a corrupt red(blue)wood forest. 

Do you ever wonder why the M$M makes Trump the story, two years after he left office?  But not the $2.8 trillion swallowed by the Deep State since then?