Gil Jesus Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) Oswald's shirt by Gil Jesus ( 2021 ) https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/CE-150-small.png "He stated that after arriving at his apartment, he changed his shirt and trousers because they were dirty. He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored, long sleeved shirt with a button-down collar and grey colored trousers. He indicated that he placed these articles of clothing in a lower drawer of his dresser." ( CD 5, pg. 100 )After his arrest, Oswald told the Dallas Police that after he left work, he went to his room and changed his clothes.The significance of this is that if true, then the witness Mrs. Bledsoe, who claimed to have seen him on the bus wearing the arrested shirt ( CE 150 ) BEFORE he got to his roominghouse, was either lying or simply mistaken.Secondly and more importantly, the fact that he changed his clothing between the time of the assassination and his arrest means that the clothing fibers from the shirt he was wearing at the time of his arrest could not legitimately have been on the rifle found in the Texas School Book Depository.In other words, they were planted by authorities.The interrogationAccording to Wesley Frazier, who gave Oswald a ride to Irving after work on the evening of November 21st, Oswald was wearing a "reddish shirt". ( 24 H 408 )As stated above, Oswald told police that he was wearing that same shirt on the morning of the assassination and changed it after he left the Texas School Book Depository because it was dirty. He also told them he had been wearing grey trousers and where he had placed those dirty clothes. ( CD 5, pg. 91, pg. 100 ).On the afternoon of the assassination, the Dallas Police with the assistance of the Assistant District Attorney ( William Alexander ) and the judge who issued the search warrant ( David Johnston ) , searched Oswald's room at 1026 North Beckley.District Attorneys and judges are not usually present when police conduct searches. So I can only assume that they were there to control the evidence and the description thereof.The searchThe search warrant was for "guns, ammunition, bombs, etc. and any plans made of the route of the Presidential Party in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963". https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/1026_warrant2a.jpg The search was conducted by Dallas Homicide detectives Walter E. Potts, Fay M. Turner, Henry M. Moore and William L. Stenkel.They didn't find any guns, ammunition or bombs but they DID find the grey trousers and a dirty shirt that they described as a "brown shirt with button down collar" that ended up becoming Commission Exhibit 151. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/21H141-beckley-search.png The "brown" shirt https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/CE-151-bw.jpg The Commission printed all of its photographic evidence in black-and-white, allowing it to deceive the reader with the color of the evidence. As it was with the tan jacket they called grey, so it was with this "reddish" shirt they called brown.Years later and thanks to the work of researcher Pat Speer, the color version of this shirt was available to researchers. It revealed that the shirt had a reddish tint and was, in fact, dirty. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/CE-151.jpg Commission Exhibit 3042 is the FBI list of items received from the Dallas Police. These items were owned by Oswald and taken from both the Paine residence and his room at 1026 North Beckley. It lists this shirt and two pair of grey cotton slacks, one ripped. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/26-H-588.png These items are the same ones that appear on the inventory of things taken from North Beckley.This is strong evidence that Oswald was telling the truth when he said that he was wearing a reddish shirt and grey trousers and went home to change them because they were dirty.Many witnesses were shown Commission Exhibit 150, the arrested shirt, and could not identify that shirt as the shirt Oswald wore to work. Neither could they identify it as the shirt the Tippit killer wore.Linnie Mae Randle, the sister of the man who gave Oswald a ride to work that morning, testified that Oswald was wearing "a white T-shirt and some sort of brown or tan shirt." ( 2 H 250 )When she was shown the CE 150 shirt, she said, "....I don't remember it being that shade of brown....I don't remember it being exactly that. I thought it was a solid color." ( ibid. )She was implying that the shade of brown was lighter than the shirt she was being shown. Oswald owned only two brown shirts, CE 150 and the "reddish shirt", CE 151.And CE 151 was a solid color.Amazingly, she was never shown it.Neither were the employees at the TSBD."He just didn't have the same clothes on"Perhaps a thorn in the side of the "Oswald-did-it" crowd comes from none other than the Commission's star witness, Howard Brennan. Brennan claimed to have seen the man in the window with the rifle before the shooting. He viewed the first lineup with Helen Markham but would not identify Oswald. After Oswald was dead, he had a great revelation that Oswald was the man he saw in the window.During his testimony, he said that at the lineup, Oswald, "was not dressed in the same clothes as I saw the man in the window". ( 3 H 161 )When asked if he meant the shirt or trousers, he said:"Well not particularly either. He just didn't have the same clothes on." ( ibid. )The implication here is that Oswald had changed his clothes. And even if he did, there was another problem the Commission had to deal with.The shirt fiber evidenceIf Oswald had pulled the trigger of that rifle and if any shirt fibers were embedded on it, then it should have been fibers from the shirt he was wearing at the time of the shooting.The Commission ignored the evidence that Oswald had changed his shirt and instead claimed that the shirt he was arrested in ( CE 150 ) was the shirt he was wearing when he left the Paine residence that morning and the same shirt he was wearing when he pulled the trigger.They based this claim on the testimony of Marina Oswald, who admitted she repeatedly lied to the FBI, Mrs. Mary Bledsoe, who suffered a stroke that affected her memory and perception, and the police who claimed to have found a bus transfer in the pocket of the shirt.The Commission never considered the possibility that some men transfer the contents of their pockets when they change their shirt or pants.They ignored the testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle, who could not identify CE 150 as the shirt he wore that morning.In its Report, the Commission said that the fibers were found in a crevice between the butt plate and the wooden stock. ( pg. 124 ) https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/butt-plate.jpg The FBI fiber expert, Paul M. Stombaugh, testified that the fibers matched the fibers from the CE 150 shirt, although he couldn't say that they matched THAT shirt to the exclusions of all others. ( ibid. )I believe that when the shirt was in the possession of the FBI, someone at the Bureau planted the shirt fibers by rubbing the shirt on the rifle.The sharp edges on the rifle would have been enough to pull fibers off of the shirt and may have accounted for another anomaly having to do with it."Look Ma, no holes"Commission Exhibit 150 has a hole in the right elbow. As one can see, it is a sizable hole. ( Arrow ) https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/CE-150-hole.jpg But photographs taken of Oswald while in custody and wearing the shirt show no such hole in the right elbow. It obviously wasn't done during the struggle at the Texas Theater, as some have suggested. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/no-holes.jpg Shaneyfelt Exhibit 24 ( 21 H 470 ) is a photo of an FBI agent duplicating the picture above on the right. He's wearing that exact same CE 150 shirt and there's no hole in the elbow. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Shaneyfelt-24.jpg Since there were no entities with access to the shirt while it was in FBI custody, it comes apparent that the hole HAD to have been done by someone at the Bureau.ConclusionOswald told police that after he left the Texas School Book Depository he went back to his room and changed his shirt and pants. He described the clothing he changed out of in detail and told them where to find them.The list of items taken into evidence indicate that a shirt and pants matching the descriptions of those he gave police were, in fact, in his room.While the Commission had no problem showing the arrested shirt ( CE 150 ) to witnesses, it carefully avoided showing the "reddish shirt", CE 151, to anyone who saw Oswald on November 22nd.In fact, not one of the 552 witnesses who either appeared before the Commission or gave a deposition was ever shown CE 151. And of the thousands of questions asked, not one question was asked regarding CE 151.The FBI was well aware of what Oswald said. They had two agents ( Hosty & Bookhout ) present when he said it. They wrote reports about it. (CD 5, pgs. 91 & 100 )They had the evidence list and the evidence in their possession. ( CE 3042 )They simply ignored it.The Commission avoided the reddish shirt like the plague because this shirt was the evidence that proved: a.) Oswald did NOT fire that rifle and b.) any shirt fibers from the arrested shirt ( CE 150 ) found on the rifle were planted.Given that at least one witness ( Mrs. Randle ) described Oswald wearing a "some sort of brown" shirt OTHER than CE 150 on that morning and since Oswald only owned two brown shirts, one would think that the next obvious step in the investigation would be to show her his other brown shirt. ( CE 151 )If she had identified it, then you'd go to the TSBD to see if anyone there had seen the shirt that morning and could confirm her identification.But that wasn't done.Another reason why this evidence was suppressed was that the Commission was created with an agenda: "that Oswald was the sole assassin, that he did not have confederates who were still at large and the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial." Any evidence that the FBI collected that did not support that conclusion was either ignored, suppressed or vanished into thin air never to be seen again.Now I will state my opinion.I believe Oswald told the police the truth.I believe that he was wearing CE 151 on the morning of the assassination and a pair of grey slacks. I believe that he went home and changed his clothes because they were dirty. Color photographs show CE 151 to be dirty.I believe that the fibers on the rifle from the CE 150 shirt were planted by the FBI by rubbing the shirt against the sharp edges of the rifle in order to lodge the fibers into the crevices. I believe the shirt got caught on one of these sharp edges and it resulted in the accidental tearing of the right sleeve at the elbow.The photographic evidence is strong that this shirt was torn while in the possession of the FBI. The tear in the elbow had to have occurred between the time of the picture in Shaneyfelt 24 and the showing of the shirt to Mrs. Bledsoe.The evidence also proves that Bledsoe had NOT seen this shirt prior to its being shown to her by the FBI. Since there is no evidence that the hole in the elbow was there prior to her seeing the shirt for the first time, her "identification" was of the shirt that was shown to her by the FBI, not a shirt she saw on November 22nd.This is my opinion based on the evidence I've seen. Edited November 12, 2021 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) The man in the red shirt from the John Martin film. Prayer Man. Edited November 13, 2021 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 The argument is convincing about Oswald's change of clothes at the rooming house, both shirt and pants. However it does not logically follow that the fibers from C150 found on the 6th floor rifle--Oswald's rifle--necessarily were therefore planted by police. Since it was Oswald's rifle it is not surprising that fibers from a shirt belonging to Oswald would be found on it, from his having held or fired the rifle at some point during his ownership and possession of it, but that could be from any time in the past. What the significance is however is, if Oswald did change his clothes including his shirt in Oak Cliff newly into C150 at ca. 1 pm as you bring out, then the fibers from C150 found on the rifle could not have been from Oswald's use of that rifle at ca. 12:30 pm that day, since Oswald was not wearing C150 at the time the shots were fired of the assassination. In other words, planting of fibers from C150 on the rifle is not necessary to the argument here, as I see it. On the bus transfer, as you rightly point out it is common and routine when changing clothes to transfer contents of one pocket into the pocket of the other, such as that bus transfer. I interpret the significance of the bus transfer (I realize you have a different interpretation but anyway this is mine) is that Oswald intended to use that transfer to catch a southbound bus on Beckley to get to the Theatre. He first feinted (intentionally) in housekeeper Earlene's view as if he was headed north, letting her see him--knowing she would see him--waiting at the bus stop heading north, before (out of her sight) moving to catch a southbound. However for some reason he did not use the bus transfer and paid for the southbound bus out of pocket, I assume, as the explanation for why the bus transfer remained in his shirt pocket unused. I realize the southbound bus trip on Beckley is unverified, but it seems to be the explanation involving the least number of anomalies for how he did get to the Texas Theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Gil Jesus said: Oswald's shirt by Gil Jesus ( 2021 ) https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/CE-150-small.png After his arrest, Oswald told the Dallas Police that after he left work, he went to his room and changed his clothes.The significance of this is that if true, then the witness Mrs. Bledsoe, who claimed to have seen him on the bus wearing the arrested shirt ( CE 150 ) BEFORE he got to his roominghouse, was either lying or simply mistaken.The evidence also proves that Bledsoe had NOT seen this shirt prior to its being shown to her by the FBI. This is my opinion based on the evidence I've seen. Gil, If you read Bledsoe's WC testimony carefully, she identified the shirt she was shown during her testimony as being the same shirt she was shown by the Secret Service out at her house. Mr. Ball. Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked--- Mrs. Bledsoe. That is it. Mr. Ball. Commission Exhibit 150. Mrs. Bledsoe. That is it. Mr. Ball. This is a shirt. Mrs. Bledsoe. That is it. Mr. Ball. What do you mean by "that is it?" Mrs. Bledsoe. Because they brought it out to the house and showed it. Mr. Ball. I know. What do you mean by "that is it?" Mrs. Bledsoe. Well, because I can recognize it. Mr. Ball. Yes. You tell me what do you see here? What permits you to recognize it? Mrs. Bledsoe. I recognize---first thing I notice the elbow is out and then I saw---when the man brought it out and let me see it? Mr. Ball. No, I am talking about---I am showing you this shirt now, and you said, "That is it." You mean---What do you mean by "that is it"? Mrs. Bledsoe. That is the one he had out there that day? Mr. Ball. Who had it out there? Mrs. Bledsoe. Some Secret Service man. Mr. Ball. He brought it out. Now, I am---you have seen this shirt then before? Mrs. Bledsoe. Yes. Mr. Ball. It was brought out by the Secret Service man and shown to you? Mrs. Bledsoe. Yes. Mr. Ball. Had you ever seen the shirt before that? Mrs. Bledsoe. Well--- Mr. Ball. Have you? Mrs. Bledsoe. No; he had it on, though. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) Gil: you may be interested in viewing the coloured version of CE151 which was published only as a black-and-white picture in the Warren Commission report. I was able to obtain the coloured version of the original CE151 photograph from NARA in June 2019, and posted it in the thread "Prayer Man is a Man". The association of shirt CE151 with Prayer Man case is not random. The man who so conspicuosly resembles Lee Oswald may have worn a light-brown (redish, maroon) shirt and, if that colour is converted into grey scale and a correction for lower luminance due to shadow is applied, it would match the shade of grey in Prayer Man's shirt in Couch/Darnell film. Prayer Man's shirt shows dark spots on the left and maybe even on the right front facing which suggests a diagonal shape of dark spots on that shirt. Such arrangment of dark spots may be owing to that person carrying dusty boxes like this: For obvious reasons, it is not that simple to prove that the dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt would match those seen in CE151. I am terribly slow in achieving any progress on that project due to my work and life committments. However, I was able to at least arrange a couple of large-format prints matching an M-size shirt that is reasonably similar to CE151. My wife also cut the front and back leaves on the model shirt to match Lee Oswald's shirt (not shown here yet). Let us see where could this line of investigation lead to. Edited November 12, 2021 by Andrej Stancak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Greg Doudna said: The argument is convincing about Oswald's change of clothes at the rooming house, both shirt and pants. However it does not logically follow that the fibers from C150 found on the 6th floor rifle--Oswald's rifle--necessarily were therefore planted by police. Since it was Oswald's rifle it is not surprising that fibers from a shirt belonging to Oswald would be found on it, from his having held or fired the rifle at some point during his ownership and possession of it, but that could be from any time in the past. What the significance is however is, if Oswald did change his clothes including his shirt in Oak Cliff newly into C150 at ca. 1 pm as you bring out, then the fibers from C150 found on the rifle could not have been from Oswald's use of that rifle at ca. 12:30 pm that day, since Oswald was not wearing C150 at the time the shots were fired of the assassination. In other words, planting of fibers from C150 on the rifle is not necessary to the argument here, as I see it. On the bus transfer, as you rightly point out it is common and routine when changing clothes to transfer contents of one pocket into the pocket of the other, such as that bus transfer. I interpret the significance of the bus transfer (I realize you have a different interpretation but anyway this is mine) is that Oswald intended to use that transfer to catch a southbound bus on Beckley to get to the Theatre. He first feinted (intentionally) in housekeeper Earlene's view as if he was headed north, letting her see him--knowing she would see him--waiting at the bus stop heading north, before (out of her sight) moving to catch a southbound. However for some reason he did not use the bus transfer and paid for the southbound bus out of pocket, I assume, as the explanation for why the bus transfer remained in his shirt pocket unused. I realize the southbound bus trip on Beckley is unverified, but it seems to be the explanation involving the least number of anomalies for how he did get to the Texas Theatre. The conclusions Gil came to were pretty much the same conclusions I came to when I looked into this a decade ago and received the only color photos of the shirt. (In opposition to what Andres says, the Archives assured me multiple times that the WC's evidence photos were all black and white, and that no color photos were available, and that, as a consequence, they would take color photographs of CE 151, for a price... They assured me as well that once I paid for the photos they would be my private possession to do with as I wished. I was dealing directly with the head guy--whose name escapes me--overseeing the JFK records. It seems ludicrous to me that he would put me through six months of rigamarole going back and forth if color photos were available to begin with... But stranger things have happened.) In any event, your post, Greg, reminded me of something discussed in my chapter that Gil either overlooked or left out. Stombaugh testified that the fibers were found ON TOP of the fingerprint powder. This means the fibers were not old fibers. Stombaugh alibied that the fibers were probably dangling from the butt plate when the DPD dusted the rifle, and that they got wrapped around the butt plate ON TOP of the fingerprint powder in the process. But this was obvious nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 34 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: The conclusions Gil came to were pretty much the same conclusions I came to when I looked into this a decade ago and received the only color photos of the shirt. (In opposition to what Andres says, the Archives assured me multiple times that the WC's evidence photos were all black and white, and that no color photos were available, and that, as a consequence, they would take color photographs of CE 151, for a price... They assured me as well that once I paid for the photos they would be my private possession to do with as I wished. I was dealing directly with the head guy--whose name escapes me--overseeing the JFK records. It seems ludicrous to me that he would put me through six months of rigamarole going back and forth if color photos were available to begin with... But stranger things have happened.) In any event, your post, Greg, reminded me of something discussed in my chapter that Gil either overlooked or left out. Stombaugh testified that the fibers were found ON TOP of the fingerprint powder. This means the fibers were not old fibers. Stombaugh alibied that the fibers were probably dangling from the butt plate when the DPD dusted the rifle, and that they got wrapped around the butt plate ON TOP of the fingerprint powder in the process. But this was obvious nonsense. Fascinating detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Pat Speer said: (In opposition to what Andres says, the Archives assured me multiple times that the WC's evidence photos were all black and white, and that no color photos were available, and that, as a consequence, they would take color photographs of CE 151, for a price... They assured me as well that once I paid for the photos they would be my private possession to do with as I wished. I was dealing directly with the head guy--whose name escapes me--overseeing the JFK records. It seems ludicrous to me that he would put me through six months of rigamarole going back and forth if color photos were available to begin with... But stranger things have happened Pat: it seems that the strange thing indeed happened and that you were given newly taken photographs while I was sent the original coloured CE151 photograph. In my project aimed to reconstruct the dark spots on CE151 and map them onto a model shirt (then check a person posing as Prayer Man and wearing it), both the original coloured photograph and your coloured photograph of the shirt CE151 are of great value because each picture shows a couple details the other picture does not show. I hope you are not questioning the veracity of the CE151 I posted in June 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 11/13/2021 at 12:21 AM, Pat Speer said: In any event, your post, Greg, reminded me of something discussed in my chapter that Gil either overlooked or left out. Stombaugh testified that the fibers were found ON TOP of the fingerprint powder. This means the fibers were not old fibers. Stombaugh alibied that the fibers were probably dangling from the butt plate when the DPD dusted the rifle, and that they got wrapped around the butt plate ON TOP of the fingerprint powder in the process. But this was obvious nonsense. You're right, Pat. This is something I missed. The fibers on TOP of the powder only proves our point that they were part of a frame-up. If you don't mind, I'd like to put a link to your website on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) On 11/12/2021 at 9:21 PM, Pat Speer said: The conclusions Gil came to were pretty much the same conclusions I came to when I looked into this a decade ago and received the only color photos of the shirt. (In opposition to what Andres says, the Archives assured me multiple times that the WC's evidence photos were all black and white, and that no color photos were available, and that, as a consequence, they would take color photographs of CE 151, for a price... They assured me as well that once I paid for the photos they would be my private possession to do with as I wished. I was dealing directly with the head guy--whose name escapes me--overseeing the JFK records. It seems ludicrous to me that he would put me through six months of rigamarole going back and forth if color photos were available to begin with... But stranger things have happened.) In any event, your post, Greg, reminded me of something discussed in my chapter that Gil either overlooked or left out. Stombaugh testified that the fibers were found ON TOP of the fingerprint powder. This means the fibers were not old fibers. Stombaugh alibied that the fibers were probably dangling from the butt plate when the DPD dusted the rifle, and that they got wrapped around the butt plate ON TOP of the fingerprint powder in the process. But this was obvious nonsense. Pat I just reread all 88 pages of your 4b on "Threads of Evidence" (https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4b-threads-of-evidence), simply stunning. The match of the tuft of fibers on the rifle with fibers from C150, the brown shirt on Oswald at his arrest (and not a match with any other Oswald shirt), and the testimony of Stombaugh that the fibers were recent, is too much coincidence: either Oswald fired the rifle while wearing C150 or it was planted on the rifle, one or the other. What you bring out is devastating that Oswald was not wearing C150 that morning whether on the sixth floor or anywhere else in the TSBD. Oswald said he had worn a red shirt to work that morning, said he changed his shirt at the rooming house (according to Fritz's handwritten notes, and Thomas Kelley's notes), and you show a color photo of C151, a maroon (red) shirt found at his rooming house exactly where Oswald said he had put the red shirt he had worn to work that day--and it is red. Is it true that it took until your own efforts as late as 2016 before any color photo of C151 became publicly known? If so, that is just astonishing--because visually one can see that it is just obvious that was the red shirt Oswald said he had worn that morning. C150 is brown not red, and C151 is red--reddish or maroon--not brown. C151 was the shirt Oswald wore to work that morning from Irving. But as the testimony from the TSBD witnesses indicate, Oswald would have taken off his shirt upon arrival to work, hung it in the "domino room" on the first floor, and worked in a white T-shirt only, just as on other days, and as seen that day. He did not have any shirt on at 12:30 pm except a white T-shirt. Therefore Oswald could not have had a tuft of fibers from C150--which at that moment was not being worn by anyone, at the rooming house on Beckley--caught on the metal plate at the butt of the rifle while firing the rifle at 12:30. The white T-shirt only being worn by Oswald at the time of the assassination is as solid as any multiple witness testimonies can be--Mrs. Reid, Shelley, Truly, Jarman. Oswald wore C151 to work, took it off and it was in the first floor domino room while Oswald worked in his white T-shirt, seen ca. 12:32 pm in his white T-shirt by Mrs. Reid on the 2nd floor 1-2 minutes after the assassination, then Oswald returned to the first floor, put on his shirt, C151, the red shirt, and left the TSBD wearing that shirt, C151, which he changed along with his pants at the rooming house on Beckley in Oak Cliff at about 1 pm, changing into C150 the brown shirt, the shirt which the FBI said showed a match of fibers to the tuft caught on the rifle found at the TSBD. You bring out compelling argument that never-reported tests were done on the shirts--C150 and C151--for gunshot residue. Why not reported or disclosed? Your proposed explanation makes sense: that like the cheek paraffin test, the shirt gunshot residue tests may have indicated Oswald had not fired a rifle that day while wearing C150. That finding would have impeached what had from about day two become central to the narrative, the fiber match of C150 to the rifle, and if C150 was then excluded by a means of testing as having gunshot residue on it, that would not only have looked exculpatory for Oswald but even beyond that would have inevitably looked to the world (in this case arguably accurately) like the fiber match from C150 may have been planted on the rifle, part of what in the UK is called "stitching up" a suspect with some evidence by law enforcement in order to assist in getting a conviction. Then you bring out the stunning fact of the FBI agents showing only the brown shirt C150, and not C151 the red shirt Oswald said he had worn to work that morning--to the TSBD witnesses to identify (and the rejections of identification of C150 from those witnesses). You bring out the testimony of witnesses who saw a man with a rifle on the sixth floor of the TSBD having seen that man in a light-colored shirt, not in agreement with the brown shirt C150 whose tuft of fiber the FBI reported finding on the rifle consistent with a wearer of C150 firing that rifle that day. Especially interesting is your putting together (at p. 17 of 88 on my printout of your 4b; section titled "Was Something Up Their Sleeve?") the document about the Secret Service in Dec 1963 receiving Oswald clothing including that red shirt (C161) from DPD from which the Secret Service intended to forward to "the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Lab"--and your connection of that (of which nothing further is known from documents on the Mary Ferrell site?) with a September 1966 forensics conference in which three scientists from the Laboratory of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the IRS reported "test firings were made with foreign rifles, and paraffin lifts of hair and shoulders were examined for the presence of antimony and barium ... this work indicates there is a distinct possibility that the method can be applied to the detection of rifle firings"--and your suggestion that that 1966 conference report may be related to never-published, never-reported, testing done by that lab on Oswald clothing for gunshot residue from the JFK assassination Mannlicher-Carcano. After restudying your 4b, I do not think that tuft of fibers from C150 (in agreement with C150, to be technical) of recent origin on Oswald's rifle was caused by handling of that rifle by Oswald prior to Nov 22, 1963. And a lot of evidence pretty much establishes "beyond reasonable question" that Oswald was not wearing C150 at the time of the assassination, which raises the question of how that tuft of fibers came to be on the rifle. Edited November 14, 2021 by Greg Doudna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) On 11/12/2021 at 9:18 AM, John Butler said: The man in the red shirt from the John Martin film. Prayer Man. Courtesy of Chris Davidson. Prayer Man. 58 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said: The white T-shirt only being worn by Oswald at the time of the assassination is as solid as any multiple witness testimonies can be--Mrs. Reid, Shelley, Truly, Jarman. Oswald in a with t-shirt is an argument for two Oswalds at the TSBD and strengthens the Roger Craig story of Lee Oswald as (Craig identified as the man at the DPD) the man seen by Craig entering a Rambler. Prayer Man (Harvey) was on Elm and later the door of the TSBD in a reddish shirt. Edited November 14, 2021 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Doudna Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, John Butler said: Oswald in a with t-shirt is an argument for two Oswalds at the TSBD and strengthens the Roger Craig story of Oswald (or his look alike identified as the man at the DPD) seen by Craig entering a Rambler. I know the Prayer Man identification is highly controversial (and do not wish for Gil's topic to go in that direction) but to the limited extent I have looked at that question it seems to me that is in the end most likely Sarah Stanton, primarily due to the testimony of Wesley Frazier as well as the white T-shirt Oswald was wearing according to the testimony of Mrs. Reid 1-2 minutes after the assassination. If Prayer Man were Oswald then that photo would necessarily be after Oswald had descended to the first floor again after being seen by Mrs. Reid, and had put on his red shirt, prior to leaving the TSBD altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said: I know the Prayer Man identification is highly controversial (and do not wish for Gil's topic to go in that direction) but to the limited extent I have looked at that question it seems to me that is in the end most likely Sarah Stanton, primarily due to the testimony of Wesley Frazier as well as the white T-shirt Oswald was wearing according to the testimony of Mrs. Reid 1-2 minutes after the assassination. If Prayer Man were Oswald then that photo would necessarily be after Oswald had descended to the first floor again after being seen by Mrs. Reid, and had put on his red shirt, prior to leaving the TSBD altogether. Greg, If you talk about Oswald's red (CE 151) or brown shirt (CE 150), you have to go in the direction of when/where the shirt was worn and by who. The connection between Elm Street Prayer Man and the TSBD door way Prayer Man is very strong. This connection is based on three things. The resemblance to the two figures, the red shirt iddentified by many as worn by Oswald (Harvey), and the flashing camera seen on Elm Street in John Martin film and the flashing camera on the TSBD doorway (credit Chris Davidson) as seen in Couch film. The flashing camera links the two. If as you say, Mrs. Reid did see Oswald in a 1-2 minute period after the assassination in a white t-shirt, then that Oswald cannot be the Oswald on Elm Street and the doorway of the TSBD. Elm Street Oswald/Prayer Man is filming the p. limo as it goes by his position and as shots ring out at at the SW corner of the TSBD. There is no time to pickup and put on a red shirt. Baker is seen in film to move toward the TSBD doorway just seconds after the shots. And, if not wrong I believe Prayer Man was already there in the doorway. There is a lot of controversy over the Roger Craig/bus-cab ride stories. These stories indicate two Oswalds and therefore must be false or in need of contradiction to some. The film shots from the two films above indicate there were two Oswalds. The red shirt (I believe C151) along with the Roger Craig/bus-cab ride stories cinches it. Edited November 14, 2021 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 27 minutes ago, John Butler said: The film shots from the two films above indicate there were two Oswalds. The red shirt (I believe C151) along with the Roger Craig/bus-cab ride stories cinches it. Of course in reality, they indicate nothing of the kind, other than incorrect analysis of the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 7 hours ago, Gil Jesus said: You're right, Pat. This is something I missed. The fibers on TOP of the powder only proves our point that they were part of a frame-up. If you don't mind, I'd like to put a link to your website on mine. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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