Online Interview with Jim Gochenaur

[Bob Ness]

56 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Moore was a criminal.  

More than one of those in this fiasco. Did Jim G actually see them or was that Moore saying that?

[David Andrews]

1 hour ago, Bob Ness said:

Yeah I agree but that gag wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about the point Jim G. was trying to make during the interview. He told us the anecdote and it seems something should follow that and never did. The coyote is still danglin' in mid air, so to speak.

Was that the part where the interviewer interrupted him with a question?  We never got that train of thought back, either.

Jim, this is a job for...Black Op Radio!

Edited November 15, 2021 by David Andrews

[James DiEugenio]

Moore took out a photo and showed it to him.  And this was part of a sheaf.

 

I agree about BOR

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Was that the part where the interviewer interrupted him with a question?  We never got that train of thought back, either.

Jim, this is a job for...Black Op Radio!

Yeah, I'll go back over it again and maybe explain it a little better. Have to go save some puppies from a fire now though.

[Bob Ness]

53 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Moore took out a photo and showed it to him.  And this was part of a sheaf.

 

I agree about BOR

Hmmm. Weird. Autopsy porn spread among the SS. Sick.

[Vince Palamara]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:32 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Certainly not with you around Vince.

thanks!

[Micah Mileto]

Not 157-10005-10280, but the one after https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=49383#relPageId=3

Edited November 17, 2021 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

Fixed broken link.

[James DiEugenio]

OK, Jim G has agreed to be on Black Op Radio.

Rob Wilson, the producer of JFK Revisited will also be on soon.

[Richard Booth]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:25 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47bBHH2GaU8

The above Youtube has hardly any views, so I assume it has not been viewed even by readers of this forum. 

The short story is a fellow named Jim Gochenaur had conversations with a Secret Service agent named Elmer Moore in the 1970s. The gist of it is Moore seemed almost contrite about his role in the JFKA cover-up. Although later Moore refused to cooperate with the HSCA. 

Unfortunately, Gochenaur was not allowed to record his conversations with Moore. 

Still, worth a look. 

This was one of the many interesting details in Jim's "JFK: The Evidence Today" (excellent book) which illustrates well Elmer Moore's key role in helping with the cover-up.

Some excerpts:

On three occasions during the press conference, Perry declared that the wound in the neck was an entrance wound.160 The day after the assassination, he said the same thing to reporters from the Boston Globe.161

[...]

When Perry testified before the Commission, something had clearly happened to him. First, after testifying that the wound had edges which were not ragged but clean, he then qualified this by saying that they were neither clean cut nor were they very ragged. When asked by Specter if by the appearance of the neck wound, it could have been either an entrance or an exit, he replied, “It could have been either.”

Specter even got Perry to say the SBT was possible if the throat wound was an exit. Gerald Ford asked Perry if the reporting of his news conference was accurate or inaccurate. Perry replied with the latter. And Allen Dulles chimed in by saying that Perry should now issue a public correction about his November 22, 1963, remarks.

[...]

As Gary Aguilar wrote in Probe, after November 22, 1963, Moore began to hang around Parkland a lot. He had clearly done much work on the medical and ballistics aspects of the assassination. And by December 11, he had turned Perry around on the trajectory issue. Up until this time, the Dallas doctors had been talking freely with the press, including the Saturday Evening Post. They still thought the neck wound an entrance.

Armed with the official autopsy report, Moore now began to turn the tide, and their minds. Perry was now saying that the neck wound was an exit, and it was exiting at a downward angle.163  Moore evidently had good contacts in the press also. The first known media report of a transiting bullet (one that exited the throat) appeared in the Dallas Times-Herald on December 12, 1963, just one day after Moore got Perry to sign on to the official story.164 So Allen Dulles got Perry to issue his Orwellian public “correction.”

The revelation about Moore’s massaging the doctors’ testimony was first revealed to the Church Committee back in 1975. A man named Jim Gochenaur said he had met Moore while living in Seattle in 1970. Moore had told him he was the liaison between the Warren Commission and the Secret Service. He said that as a member of the Secret Service, he had to do what he was told.165 And one of his tasks in this new Warren Commission function was getting Dr. Perry to change his story. So he admitted to pressuring Perry to alter what he had said. Moore added something quite revealing. He said he had to do this since there was no conclusive evidence at this point as to where the shots had come from. Here, Moore is essentially saying the Commission had to badger Perry to make the case against Oswald. Moore also revealed that on the day of the assassination he flew from California to Washington. He then was detailed to Dallas on November 29. Once there, he immediately got into contact with the Dallas doctors.166

[...]

Gochenaur provided some private insight into Moore. Moore said he later felt badly about pressuring Perry into altering his story, but Gochenaur also added that the longer Moore talked, the scarier he got. He seemed to have to rationalize what he had done for the Commission. He did this by going on a long and violent rant about Kennedy. He said JFK was a pinko who was selling out the Free World to the communists. By the time the conversation was over, Gochenaur was actually frightened.169

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Richard Booth said:

This was one of the many interesting details in Jim's "JFK: The Evidence Today" (excellent book) which illustrates well Elmer Moore's key role in helping with the cover-up.

Some excerpts:

On three occasions during the press conference, Perry declared that the wound in the neck was an entrance wound.160 The day after the assassination, he said the same thing to reporters from the Boston Globe.161

[...]

When Perry testified before the Commission, something had clearly happened to him. First, after testifying that the wound had edges which were not ragged but clean, he then qualified this by saying that they were neither clean cut nor were they very ragged. When asked by Specter if by the appearance of the neck wound, it could have been either an entrance or an exit, he replied, “It could have been either.”

Specter even got Perry to say the SBT was possible if the throat wound was an exit. Gerald Ford asked Perry if the reporting of his news conference was accurate or inaccurate. Perry replied with the latter. And Allen Dulles chimed in by saying that Perry should now issue a public correction about his November 22, 1963, remarks.

[...]

As Gary Aguilar wrote in Probe, after November 22, 1963, Moore began to hang around Parkland a lot. He had clearly done much work on the medical and ballistics aspects of the assassination. And by December 11, he had turned Perry around on the trajectory issue. Up until this time, the Dallas doctors had been talking freely with the press, including the Saturday Evening Post. They still thought the neck wound an entrance.

Armed with the official autopsy report, Moore now began to turn the tide, and their minds. Perry was now saying that the neck wound was an exit, and it was exiting at a downward angle.163  Moore evidently had good contacts in the press also. The first known media report of a transiting bullet (one that exited the throat) appeared in the Dallas Times-Herald on December 12, 1963, just one day after Moore got Perry to sign on to the official story.164 So Allen Dulles got Perry to issue his Orwellian public “correction.”

The revelation about Moore’s massaging the doctors’ testimony was first revealed to the Church Committee back in 1975. A man named Jim Gochenaur said he had met Moore while living in Seattle in 1970. Moore had told him he was the liaison between the Warren Commission and the Secret Service. He said that as a member of the Secret Service, he had to do what he was told.165 And one of his tasks in this new Warren Commission function was getting Dr. Perry to change his story. So he admitted to pressuring Perry to alter what he had said. Moore added something quite revealing. He said he had to do this since there was no conclusive evidence at this point as to where the shots had come from. Here, Moore is essentially saying the Commission had to badger Perry to make the case against Oswald. Moore also revealed that on the day of the assassination he flew from California to Washington. He then was detailed to Dallas on November 29. Once there, he immediately got into contact with the Dallas doctors.166

[...]

Gochenaur provided some private insight into Moore. Moore said he later felt badly about pressuring Perry into altering his story, but Gochenaur also added that the longer Moore talked, the scarier he got. He seemed to have to rationalize what he had done for the Commission. He did this by going on a long and violent rant about Kennedy. He said JFK was a pinko who was selling out the Free World to the communists. By the time the conversation was over, Gochenaur was actually frightened.169

 

 

Richard B.--Thanks for the addition. 

There is little doubt the WC acted as a biased prosecutorial body and there was no defense counsel. Not only that, the 1960s-era police tactics of of culling or enhancing the evidence were employed. 

All that said, I have long wondered from where the throat shot could have come (given the windshield), and where did the bullet go? 

My usual take on the JFKA is that the sequence of shots---the timing---is indisputable, documented and on film. Too many shots in too short a time for a single-shot bolt action rifle. 

I am not ruling out a throat shot, but how? 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

There is alot more to Jim's story that has been revealed in the video or in the Stone movie. I had several long calls with him before I invited him to the CAPA Last Witnesses. He and Dr. Miller corroborate each other's accounts about the Moore/Perry story. 

[Micah Mileto]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:28 AM, Micah Mileto said:

 

Do you or does anybody have the following document digitized:

 House Select Committee witness Jim Gochenaur to interviewer Bob Kelley on Gochenaur's conversations with Secret Service agent Elmer Moore. Notes by Bob Kelley on June 6, 1975; pp. 3-4. JFK Record Number 157-10005-10280

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uQkTxVu2AIU6XVCNNVN77o2saQSqg5w_

[Micah Mileto]

So, there's no record of Gochenaur ever saying the part about Moore pulling out the gun until 2020? He didn't say that at the 2018 CAPA conference.

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

So, there's no record of Gochenaur ever saying the part about Moore pulling out the gun until 2020? He didn't say that at the 2018 CAPA conference.

Well his Church Committee testimony is missing so who knows? Gochenaur’s stories are so weirdly specific - it seems like a stretch he’d make all that up just for kicks. The Church Committee investigators didn’t believe him in the pre-interviews and we’re actively looking for ways to question his credibility, but then they called him in to testify and his testimony subsequently vanished. Seems a bit suspicious.