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How did Fritz know when Ruby was in position to kill Oswald?


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12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The Westbrook and Croy article linked by Jim on the first page of this thread kind of goes hand in hand with the featured article of the thread in that it illustrates Westbrook lied to the Warren Commission and was actively involved in the set up of Oswald.  The kicker for me was saying he walked from the DPD offices to the TSBD, because there were no cars available (when he had and unmarked car assigned to him).  Then he says, while still at the TSBD, when told of an officer being shot in Oak Cliff, he ran to His radio.  In His car.  

If the WC was a trial the defense would have had a field day with him.  I can see Mark Lane saying, Wait a minute.  So you walked to the TSBD.  Then you ran to your radio, in your assigned un marked car . . . back at DPD HQ, where it or any other police cars were not available, which is why you walked to the TSBD.

I don't think you can believe a word of anything Westbrook said at any point, and, he was involved up to his ears.

I do think he was in his own car, with the wallet "found" at the Tippit murder scene in his pocket when he left the DPD HQ.

Ron,

Nearly identical accusations can be leveled at Kenneth Croy as at Westbrook.  Croy told the WC that, immediately after the assassination, he was told he “wasn’t needed” by an unknown policeman and he (Croy) decided  to change his clothes at his parents’ house and then have lunch with his estranged wife. 

John A. theorizes that Westbrook and Croy worked together on 11/22/63.   We think Westbrook left his dark blue police car at the Book Depository and, with Croy, drove car #207 (allegedly assigned to Officer Jimmy Valentine) to Oak Cliff, where, looking for LHO, they honked the horn heard by Earline Roberts at the Beckley rooming house.  We also think Westbrook and Croy were in car #207 seen by Doris Holan parked in the narrow driveway behind Tippit’s car.  From the second floor of her building, Mr. Holan was in a unique position to see over Tippit's car to the narrow driveway behind it (see diagram below).

Westbrook and Croy’s participation in the 10th and Patton throw-down wallet is well known.  John also believes that Westbrook signaled Fritz when Ruby was in place to murder Oswald, and that Croy led Ruby to Oswald in the basement of the Dallas Police station.

Tippit_witnesses.jpg

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The WC asked Westbrook what he did after Oswald was arrested (at 1:51 PM). Westbrook told the WC that he “went back to city hall and resumed my desk.”

Mr. Ball.  Did you see him taken from the theatre?
Mr. Westbrook.  No sir; because I went the other way.
Mr. Ball.  You went to the back?
Mr. Westbrook. Yes.  He went out the front and I never saw Oswald again--that's the last time I saw him."

Now let’s look at the dispatch transcript, which includes references to the following:

223 is Officer Walker
492 is Bob Carroll
19 is Sgt. Owens
550 is Westbrook
531 is Sgt. Owens

Most are in and around 10th & Patton, while talking to the dispatcher.

Read the last few lines below. Westbrook (550) says LHO was apprehended and en route to the station. Then Westbrook says 223 and 492 are in the car WITH US !!!!! The dispatcher has every reason to believe that Westbook is the car with LHO, Walker and Carroll en route to the police station. But Westbrook was not in the car, yet it was Westbrook's car that Carroll drove to police headquarters along with Walker, Hill, Lyons, Bentley, and LHO.

Sure looks to me like Westbrook was lying… again.
Westbrook_in_car_%3F%3F%3F.jpg

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Jim,

While I was doing research on the Tippit shooting, I read somewhere that no one actually saw Tippit being shot.  Is that true or a claim that can't be supported?

This is where that came from:

"

J D Tippit Shooting

Monday, 08 July 2019 05:31

Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

Written by Jack Myers

No one sees the actual shots. A passing motorist, Domingo Benavides, is startled by the gunfire as he approaches Car #10 while traveling west on 10th. In an act of instinct and self-preservation, Benavides turns his pickup to the curb and ducks down behind the dashboard. (Lane, pp. 177-78)”

“Cabbie Bill Scoggins sees Tippit fall into the street. A few seconds later, he observes the figure of the young man walking quickly towards his cab, cutting across the adjacent corner property on 10th Street. Scoggins steps out of his cab and hides behind the driver-side fender. The young man emerges from the lawn’s hedges and begins to trot south on Patton Street, still tossing the occasional empty shell to the ground. (Lane, pp. 191-93)”

Edited by John Butler
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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The WC asked Westbrook what he did after Oswald was arrested (at 1:51 PM). Westbrook told the WC that he “went back to city hall and resumed my desk.”

Mr. Ball.  Did you see him taken from the theatre?
Mr. Westbrook.  No sir; because I went the other way.
Mr. Ball.  You went to the back?
Mr. Westbrook. Yes.  He went out the front and I never saw Oswald again--that's the last time I saw him."

Now let’s look at the dispatch transcript, which includes references to the following:

223 is Officer Walker
492 is Bob Carroll
19 is Sgt. Owens
550 is Westbrook
531 is Sgt. Owens

Most are in and around 10th & Patton, while talking to the dispatcher.

Read the last few lines below. Westbrook (550) says LHO was apprehended and en route to the station. Then Westbrook says 223 and 492 are in the car WITH US !!!!! The dispatcher has every reason to believe that Westbook is the car with LHO, Walker and Carroll en route to the police station. But Westbrook was not in the car, yet it was Westbrook's car that Carroll drove to police headquarters along with Walker, Hill, Lyons, Bentley, and LHO.

Sure looks to me like Westbrook was lying… again.
 

Jim,

Thanks for this. It was fascinating.

I;m a little pressed for time right now, but I'll dig into this a little deeper later. I did have a couple of quick observations:

1) Which version of the DPD Dispatch Tapes did this version come from? Which version are you using?

2) 531 is not Sgt. Owens. 19 is Owens. 531 is Dispatcher Henslee (I think his initials are J.D Henslee).

3) I don't know why Gerald Hill was assigned call# 550/2. Maybe because he and Westbrook were both in Personnel?

4) Look at the signature at the bottom. Do you have the ability to blow up an image, or part of an image? It looks like it's been typed over.

5) It looks like the version you are using is one of the earlier versions. The DPD provided a copy to the WC, and the WC was not happy. Nobody was identified, and I not sure if times were provided. Someone had to go back in and          hand-write who these people on the tapes were. Notice how they're all written in in pencil.

There are at least 3 versions of the Tapes that I know of. The first version is in CD 87. This is the version that went through Charles Lumpkin and was given to the Secret Service.

I like to use the version that is in CE 1974.

a) Commission Document 87 - Secret Service report of 08 Jan 1964 re: Oswald

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=637&tab=page

Secret Service Copy CD 87

Went through Deputy Chief Charles Lumpkin

(Dallas Police Department starts at page 637)

 

b) FBI Copy CE 705

Went through Inspector Herbert Sawyer

(Starts at page 390)

Warren Commission Hearings Volume XVII

Current Section: CE 705 - Radio log of channel 1 of the Dallas Police Department for November 22, 1963.

.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=416

 

 

c) CE 1974

Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXIII

Current Section: CE 1974 - FBI report dated August 11, 1964, at Dallas, Tex., of transcripts of Dallas police radio transmissions covering ...

(starting at page 832)

(Commissioned by the Warren Commissio in July, 1964. Identifies the callers)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=864

 

The copy I used to use is a Word document copy found on the McAdams web site. I liked the Word document copy because I could copy and paste. The Web site said,

“The basis for these audio clips is an especially high-quality recording of the Dallas Police transmissions discovered by David Dix in the Minneapolis Public Library. Copies of this tape are available for sale. The transcript of Channel One is based on a transcript edited by Russ Shearer, and the transcript for Channel Two is from Warren Commission Exhibit 1974 (with some minor revisions).”

 

Unfortunately, this copy was taken down and no longer seems to be available .

I pretty much use this version now. I think it;s a copy of CE 1974.

https://www.billdrenas.com/articles/dpd01-00.pdf

 

Steve Thomas

 

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Steve,

Thanks for continuing this discussion.  I've got to go to an Easter thing, but I'll study this some more tonight or tomorrow AM.

John,

Jack Tatum saw the man who shot Tippit begin to leave and then quickly return to the body and shoot Tippit in the head.  More after my consultation with the Easter Bunny, who I predict can come closer to solving this case than the WC did.

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One of the things that I find fascinating, is that of the five guys who rode with Oswald back downtown, none of them were from Homicide.

K.E. Lyon. Patrolman. Second Platoon Patrol Division Headquarters Station 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM shift. Page 8 of Batchekor’s Exhibit 5002

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

On a TDA (Temporary Duty Assignment) to the Special Service Bureau, but does not appear on Batchelor’s Exhibit page 4.

 

C.T. Walker Patrolman Traffic Division Accident Prevention Bureau. Second Platoon 10:00 AM -t 6:00 PM Shift

Batchelor’s Exhibit page 16

 

Bob Carroll Detective Special Service Bureau

Batchelor’s Exhibit page 4

 

Paul Bentley Detective Service Division Crime Scene Search Search Section. Worked under Lieutenant John Day.

Batchelor’s Exhibit page 19

 

Gerald Hill Sergeant Patrol Division Headquarters Station Second Platoon 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM Shift

On TDA to Training and Research Section Personnel Bureau

Batchelor’s Exhibit page 8

 

You've got Patrol, Crime Search, Personnel, Special Services... Where's Homicide?

You've caught the prime suspect in a Police shooting... Where's Homicide?

They're all back downtown interviewing witnesses in Dealey Plaza and the Depository.

What about Tippit?

Was there something hinky about Tippit's shooting that made Fritz want to steer clear? Or is it something more benign than that?

Look at the Detectives in the Homicide Bureau and think about the roles they played in this investigation:

image.png.38195352b215919300b9c0dd89925f2c.png

The only one I can think of is Leavelle, and what did he do? Interview Helen Markham? Big deal.

 

Steve Thomas

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2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

You've got Patrol, Crime Search, Personnel, Special Services... Where's Homicide?

Maybe they were supposed to be "available" to investigate the shooting of Oswald and be clear of any possible involvement in it.

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21 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

1) Which version of the DPD Dispatch Tapes did this version come from? Which version are you using?

2) 531 is not Sgt. Owens. 19 is Owens. 531 is Dispatcher Henslee (I think his initials are J.D Henslee).

3) I don't know why Gerald Hill was assigned call# 550/2. Maybe because he and Westbrook were both in Personnel?

4) Look at the signature at the bottom. Do you have the ability to blow up an image, or part of an image? It looks like it's been typed over.

5) It looks like the version you are using is one of the earlier versions. The DPD provided a copy to the WC, and the WC was not happy. Nobody was identified, and I not sure if times were provided. Someone had to go back in and          hand-write who these people on the tapes were. Notice how they're all written in in pencil.

Thanks for the correction on #531 and the various links to dispatcher logs. Here’s the clearest enlargement I can make of the typed signature.  It looks like a type-over to me too.


 Westbrook_in_car_CU.jpg

You have a lot more expertise in the various versions of the DPD dispatch logs than I do.  I got the page reproduced above from John A. and didn’t ask him which version it was. In general, have you compared various versions to see what the differences are?  How about this one specifically?

Also, are you sure that Hill was assigned Westbrook’s #550?  Isn’t it just as likely, or more so, that Westbrook himself made the call?  If Westbrook was behind the theater to meet the Oswald look-alike seen by Butch Burroughs and Bernard Haire, it may well have been to escort him away from the scene. If that is so, Westbrook would surely know to try and cover that up as it was happening, which could explain that call.  The fact that he told the WC he went straight back to his desk suggests his plan hadn’t worked entirely. 

If memory serves, Westbrook ordered cops inside the theater to "hide his face" as LHO was dragged out.
 

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22 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve,

Thanks for continuing this discussion.  I've got to go to an Easter thing, but I'll study this some more tonight or tomorrow AM.

John,

Jack Tatum saw the man who shot Tippit begin to leave and then quickly return to the body and shoot Tippit in the head.  More after my consultation with the Easter Bunny, who I predict can come closer to solving this case than the WC did.

Thanks Jim,

I'll look into Jack Tatum.  It is not that I doubt what you are saying.  I'm just looking for more info.  Thanks again.

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2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

You have a lot more expertise in the various versions of the DPD dispatch logs than I do.  I got the page reproduced above from John A. and didn’t ask him which version it was. In general, have you compared various versions to see what the differences are?  How about this one specifically?

Also, are you sure that Hill was assigned Westbrook’s #550?  Isn’t it just as likely, or more so, that Westbrook himself made the call?  If Westbrook was behind the theater to meet the Oswald look-alike seen by Butch Burroughs and Bernard Haire, it may well have been to escort him away from the scene. If that is so, Westbrook would surely know to try and cover that up as it was happening, which could explain that call.  The fact that he told the WC he went straight back to his desk suggests his plan hadn’t worked entirely. 

If memory serves, Westbrook ordered cops inside the theater to "hide his face" as LHO was dragged out.
 

Jim,

First off, I have wondered about Westbrook and his possible connection to the alleged Oswald look-alike taken out the back of the Theater also.

This is from Gerald Hill's testimony

Take note of the date of his testimony, and the reference to Sawyer's Exhibit A

WC testimony of Gerald Hill taken on April 8, 1964

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

Mr. HILL The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez.
I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.

 

Mr. BELIN. Go ahead if you would, please.
Mr. HILL. All right, I took the key to Poe's car.

Mr. BELIN. You had left Owens' car at this time?
Mr. HILL. I left Owens' car and had 105 car at this time.

 

Mr. BELIN. I notice in the radio log transcript, which is marked Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, that at 1:26 p.m., between 1:26 p.m., and 1:32 p.m., there was a call from No. 19 to 531. 531 is your home number, I believe? Your radio home station?
Mr. HILL. Yes.

 

An accident investigator named Bob Apple was at the location (Tippit’s shooting) at that time, and we were standing there together near his car when the call came out that the suspect had been seen entering the Texas Theatre.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. HILL. We both got in Apple's car and went to Jefferson, made a right on Jefferson, headed west from our location, and pulled up as close to the front of the theatre as we could. There were already two or three officers at the location. I asked if it was covered off at the back.

 

Mr. BELIN. All right, now, I want to return to the car, Sergeant Hill.
You stated that this gun was handed to you by----
Mr. HILL. Detective Bob Carroll.
Mr. BELIN. Detective Bob Carroll when he got in?
Mr. HILL Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
After he handed you--handed the gun to you, will you tell us what happened inside the car, or whether anyone made any remarks? And if you can, what happened in the car?
Mr. HILL. We mostly got the car in motion, traveled to the first corner where we could make a right turn, made a right turn, traveled one block, made another right turn, continued down this street, and at this point we would have been going east until we reached Zangs Boulevard, and turned left onto Zangs.

Within, I would say seconds--this is just a guess--after we got in the car, I picked up the radio and used the call number 550, car 2, which No. 550 is the number assigned to the personnel office, and because I knew the captain was out in the field and he would be using 550, if he got on the radio.
I used call 550, car 2, and made the statement, "We have suspect and weapon and are en route to the station."

 

Sawyer’s Exhibit A is Volume XXI of the Warren Commission Hearings and Transcripts

Beginning on page 388

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=412

This is dated December 3, 1963

This is the version that has the names of the individuals hand-written in pencil.

This makes at least four versions of the Tapes

 

This is from CE 705:

.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=416

Dated March 16, 1964

Dallas Police Department Tapes begin on page 390

image.png.f10ec0b133784aa47699f634e4d2c5ab.png

It's been a long time since I tried to compare the various versions of the Tapes. I remember that the earliest versions did not have the line about ordering Tippit to remain in central Oak Cliff and "remain at large for any emergency that might come in".

Steve Thomas

Edited by Steve Thomas
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On 4/17/2022 at 11:43 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Steve,

Thanks for continuing this discussion.  I've got to go to an Easter thing, but I'll study this some more tonight or tomorrow AM.

John,

Jack Tatum saw the man who shot Tippit begin to leave and then quickly return to the body and shoot Tippit in the head.  More after my consultation with the Easter Bunny, who I predict can come closer to solving this case than the WC did.

Jim,

I have been reading info on Jack Tatum.  There are a number of quirky, perhaps questionable things about Tatum and his story.  If you are interested, I will look into it more and send my conclusions.

PS:

The more I read on this the more Jack Tatum shows up as a phony and his testimony pops up after the HSCA finds "baffling" evidence about the Tippit head wound.

Edited by John Butler
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On 4/17/2022 at 7:11 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The WC asked Westbrook what he did after Oswald was arrested (at 1:51 PM). Westbrook told the WC that he “went back to city hall and resumed my desk.”

Mr. Ball.  Did you see him taken from the theatre?
Mr. Westbrook.  No sir; because I went the other way.
Mr. Ball.  You went to the back?
Mr. Westbrook. Yes.  He went out the front and I never saw Oswald again--that's the last time I saw him."

Now let’s look at the dispatch transcript, which includes references to the following:

223 is Officer Walker
492 is Bob Carroll
19 is Sgt. Owens
550 is Westbrook
531 is Sgt. Owens

Most are in and around 10th & Patton, while talking to the dispatcher.

Read the last few lines below. Westbrook (550) says LHO was apprehended and en route to the station. Then Westbrook says 223 and 492 are in the car WITH US !!!!! The dispatcher has every reason to believe that Westbook is the car with LHO, Walker and Carroll en route to the police station. But Westbrook was not in the car, yet it was Westbrook's car that Carroll drove to police headquarters along with Walker, Hill, Lyons, Bentley, and LHO.

Sure looks to me like Westbrook was lying… again.
Westbrook_in_car_%3F%3F%3F.jpg

I read up a little on Westbrook, what I could find.  Ian Griggs, No Case To Answer and Larry Sneed's No More Silence. He's very interesting but hard to prove anything on but likely guilty of participation.

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Steve Thomas writes:

Quote

I have wondered about Westbrook and his possible connection to the alleged Oswald look-alike taken out the back of the Theater also.

We have a plausible candidate for the young man in question: George Jefferson Applin, Jr.

  • He left the rear of the building accompanied by police officers in order to give a signed statement, hence the mistaken impression that he was being arrested.
  • He was a white man in his early twenties, as was Oswald, hence the mistaken impression that he was a look-alike.

Applin had no known connection to either Westbrook or the assassination. He appears to have been just an ordinary member of the public who had been watching a film.

To find out more, see:

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