New Article by Dale Myers on Tippit

[Steve Roe]

8 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

We then have the six cruiser cars at the theater. But through that we know that the FBI and DPD were already at Beckley before this happened.  Which is an important issue.

Dallas Detectives Senkel, Cunningham and Walter Potts arrived at 1026 North Beckley at approximately 3:00 pm. While waiting on the search warrant, the aforementioned detectives could not find Oswald's name in the register. While Earlene Roberts was watching TV she recognized Oswald on TV and said it was "O.H. Lee". Then she showed the detectives the small room where "O.H. Lee" was living. Those detectives waited till around 4:30-5:00 when the J.P. David Johnston arrived with Homicide Detectives Fay Turner, Henry Moore and Assistant DA Bill Alexander with the search warrant. They then searched the room and confiscated all of Oswald's property. 

The tip on 1026 North Beckley came from Sheriff Bill Decker's deputy in the search at the Paine home. The deputy got the phone number (Oswald's Rooming House) from Ruth Paine and Marina. The deputy called the Sheriff's office, and they did a "Criss-Cross" off the telephone number and that's how they obtained the address. That info was relayed to Fritz and that's when Potts, Cunningham and Senkel were dispatched to the Rooming House. 

It's all in the record, there is nothing sinister. 

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Beware of those CT to LN converts!:

Dale Myers

Gary Mack

And Edward J. Epstein who started his career as an outspoken WC-critic and ended up as James Jesus Angleton fanboy.

(It is like going from the round earth back to the flath earth.)

To be clear, Gary Mack remained a CT till the end. He dismissed almost everything in the CT literature, but still admitted he  suspected there was a conspiracy. I'm also fairly certain he retained suspicions surrounding his two additions to the CT literature; that is, I don't think he ever renounced Badgeman or that the dictabelt recorded extra shots.

As for Epstein, I don't think he was ever a full-blown CT. His book focused on the political and somewhat inept nature of the WC, and remains relevant today. Later, as you write, he fell under Angleton's sway. But as I recall he concluded Oswald did the shooting, but that he'd been under the control of the Soviets. In other words, I don't think he became an LN. In the CT world that's a fine distinction, I know. We think anyone who says Oswald did it is an LN. But that's not accurate.

"Oswald-did-it while under the influence or actual control of the commies (or even the mafia)" adherents like Epstein, Russo, Shenon, and (I believe, still to this day) Blakey, are not true LNs, and are viewed with suspicion and distrust by those who still wish to believe Oswald did it because Marina didn't cuddle enough on the eve of the shooting. To those people, the true LNs, no one but Oswald (and maybe Marina) can be responsible. Period. 

[Joe Bauer]

10 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

As for Epstein, I don't think he was ever a full-blown CT. His book focused on the political and somewhat inept nature of the WC, and remains relevant today. Later, as you write, he fell under Angleton's sway. But as I recall he concluded Oswald did the shooting, but that he'd been under the control of the Soviets.

Why would the Soviets want JFK out and LBJ in his place?

Has any highest credentialed with true insider knowledge writer ever published a deeply researched and resourced answer to this question?

Or, was the subject matter just too mind blowing hot and dangerous to even write about?

And if the Soviets actually did JFK and our military and connected agencies "knew" they were responsible, what kind of a response would they have considered? 

A Curtis LeMay all out nuclear retaliation?

Perhaps an economic retaliation beyond anything we had ever carried out before?

What was our final decision in this regards?

I can't believe that if the Soviets did JFK through some type of Manchurian Candidate means using Oswald and our military knew this, that our response was what it was.

[James DiEugenio]

The reason Dale Myers imitates Bela Lugosi in public is, I think, owing to the fact he did a 180 degree somersault on the case.  Which many people, including him, wish to downplay. But it is a fact.

Just go to Kennedys and King.com

https://www.kennedysandking.com/content/dale-myers-gets-perturbed

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/i-don-t-think-lee-harvey-oswald-pulled-the-trigger-an-interview-with-dale-myers

 

The first one is like an overview, the second one is  a transcript of a radio show he did with John Kelin.  Apparently Dale did not think this existed.  He was not happy when we printed it.  He kind of sounds like me.

I always have problems with people like this.  Because much of the time, through MSM aid, there is some pecuniary value at the end of the rainbow, e.g. David Horowtiz for an extreme example.

The other point about doing the backward flip is that then when you do that it usually is accompanied by a hatred and resentment for what you were. And what that represents.  And this explains the fact that Dale cannot just debate;  as with his role with Vince Bugliosi, it gets accompanied by a truck load of insult and invective.  I also think that much of this owed to the fact that his book on the case has now been shown to the, shall we saw, faulty, e.g. Joe McBride's Into the Nightmare  is now the standard in the field; and also there are the two long essays by myself and Jack Meyers, the latter of which rendered dubious the guy Dale put on TV, Mr. Tatum.

Again, how anyone can take this guy seriously, after what he did with his whole Single Bullet Fact BS, that truly escapes me.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Steve Thomas]

50 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Dallas Detectives Senkel, Cunningham and Walter Potts arrived at 1026 North Beckley at approximately 3:00 pm.

The tip on 1026 North Beckley came from Sheriff Bill Decker's deputy in the search at the Paine home. The deputy got the phone number (Oswald's Rooming House) from Ruth Paine and Marina. The deputy called the Sheriff's office, and they did a "Criss-Cross" off the telephone number and that's how they obtained the address. That info was relayed to Fritz and that's when Potts, Cunningham and Senkel were dispatched to the Rooming House. 

It's all in the record, there is nothing sinister. 

Steve,

I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

On Friday afternoon November 22nd, 3 Dallas Police Officers and 3 Dallas Co. Sheriff's Deputies were dispatched to 2515 W. Fifth St. in Irving Texas. Oswald had been arrested at about 1:50PM, arrived at City Hall after 2:00 PM and was taken into Captain Fritz's office at 2:20PM.

Police Officers Adamcik (7H202), Rose (7H227) and Stovall (7H186) are unanimous in saying that Captain Fritz dispatched them to Irving at 2:30 PM. They are also unanimous in saying that when they arrived at this address, they had to wait for 35-40 minutes for the Deputy Sheriffs to arrive since Irving was outside their jurisdiction.

In his after-action report filed with Chief Curry (City of Dallas archives - JFK Collection) Box 3, Folder# 1, Item# 3 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm
Guy Rose wrote that after the Deputies showed up, they arrived at the front door in Irving at 3:30PM.

Harry Weatherford, Buddy Walthers, and J. L. Oxford were the deputies dispatched to Irving. You can find their accounts in the Supplementary Reports they filed with Sheriff Decker in volume 19 of the WC Hearings. Walthers, Weatherford and Sheriff Decker all said that Ruth Paine gave them a telephone number where Oswald could be reached and that they criss-crossed that number and came up with the Beckley St. address.

At 2:40 PM, W.E. Potts, B.L. Senkel and Lt. E.L. Cunningham were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley. Potts wrote in his after-action report (Box 2, Folder# 9, Item# 32) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that after he finished taking some affidavits, Fritz dispatched them to the Beckely St address at 2:40 and they arrived at Beckley at 3:00PM.

Detective B.L. Senkel also said in his after action report (Dallas Police Archives Box 3, Folder# 12, Item#1) that they arrived at 1026 N. Beckley at 3:00PM.

They checked the register and found that Oswald had been living there since October 14th.

Because of that 40 minute wait at the Irving address, the police actually arrived at the Beckley St. address BEFORE they searched the Irving address. They did not search the room on Beckley until Detective Turner, David Johnston, and Deputy DA Bill Alexander arrived with a search warrant at 4:30 or 5:00PM (Potts, Dallas City Archives - JFK Collection)

So, if the police had already been at Beckley for 30 minutes before they began the search at Irving to find a telephone number that they criss-crossed, how did they know about Beckley?

How did the Police First learn of 1026 N. Beckley?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2331-how-did-the-police-first-learn-of-1026-n-beckley/

https://myjfksite.weebly.com/

Steve Thomas

 

[Pat Speer]

As stated, I have not spent much time or energy on the Tippit case. But I think I see what's really going on here. Myers is angry as hell that his book is not being treated as the end-all be-all. It drives him insane. He may very well be right in that the book should be more widely studied by those writing about the Tippit killing. That's not the point. The point is that this anger has led Myers to mis-represent some of the facts. And to assert as fact one assertion that it is flat out stupid. Ridiculously stupid. Drool on the floor stupid. Stoopid.

He asserts that the (non-Oswald) print on the car is irrelevant. This shows Myers' true colors and reveals a HUGE gaping hole in his book. If he was half the researcher he claims to be he would have used his contacts in cop land to submit this print for an FBI check. Because it matters. Yes, it could not be proved that the print came from the killer. But what Myers deliberately avoids because he is not really interested in any truth besides the killer being Oswald is that the ID of the print could have opened a new door in the case. And helped him sell 10-20x as many books.

Because...the timing of the print is not the only relevant thing about this print, is it? It matters, really matters, whose print it is. Say the print is tied to a local gas station attendant. It helps Myers' cause. But say the print is tied to a known hit man from Chicago who flew in the night before and flew out the next day. Oops! A door opens! The guy could have walked by the car at Top Ten Records. But it doesn't matter. Why was a known mobster touching Tippit's car? 

Or say the print belonged to an ex-cop living on the outskirts of Dallas, who had recently come into some money. Once again, a door opens. What's up with that?

So I think that Myers reveals his bias in his assertion the print is irrelevant. I remember reading an article on Lt. Day that said that, upon his retirement from the DPD, he'd had numerous offers to perform independent fingerprint exams for defendants, but refused to do so, as it wouldn't feel right to use his skills to help exonerate the wrongfully accused. This is a massive problem, btw. The FBI, after years of training field agents to work in its crime lab, came to the conclusion that work in the field affected one's judgement, and led to a bias against suspects, whereby these crime lab "experts" were far more likely to misrepresent or overstate evidence than the crime lab experts with a scientific background. At that point, they changed policy, and stopped hiring crime lab employees from the field. 

In any event, I suspect Myers is of this same mindset and is losing his mind at the thought of Greg Doudna taking his work on the print to suggest Oswald's possible innocence. A real researcher, one actually interested in the truth, would write Greg and discuss ways that they could get the print analyzed. Although the ability to take a single print and figure out whose print it was (beyond a suspect's) did not exist in 1963, it does now. So maybe the case can move forward. 

Even if it's just to prove the print belonged to some gas station attendant...

P.S. It occurs to me that while Myers is now dismissive of the print, it's possible he made attempts to discover the identity of the print that were detailed in his book. If so, well, he was a better researcher then than he now appears to be. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

9 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Steve,

I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

On Friday afternoon November 22nd, 3 Dallas Police Officers and 3 Dallas Co. Sheriff's Deputies were dispatched to 2515 W. Fifth St. in Irving Texas. Oswald had been arrested at about 1:50PM, arrived at City Hall after 2:00 PM and was taken into Captain Fritz's office at 2:20PM.

Police Officers Adamcik (7H202), Rose (7H227) and Stovall (7H186) are unanimous in saying that Captain Fritz dispatched them to Irving at 2:30 PM. They are also unanimous in saying that when they arrived at this address, they had to wait for 35-40 minutes for the Deputy Sheriffs to arrive since Irving was outside their jurisdiction.

In his after-action report filed with Chief Curry (City of Dallas archives - JFK Collection) Box 3, Folder# 1, Item# 3 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm
Guy Rose wrote that after the Deputies showed up, they arrived at the front door in Irving at 3:30PM.

Harry Weatherford, Buddy Walthers, and J. L. Oxford were the deputies dispatched to Irving. You can find their accounts in the Supplementary Reports they filed with Sheriff Decker in volume 19 of the WC Hearings. Walthers, Weatherford and Sheriff Decker all said that Ruth Paine gave them a telephone number where Oswald could be reached and that they criss-crossed that number and came up with the Beckley St. address.

At 2:40 PM, W.E. Potts, B.L. Senkel and Lt. E.L. Cunningham were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley. Potts wrote in his after-action report (Box 2, Folder# 9, Item# 32) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that after he finished taking some affidavits, Fritz dispatched them to the Beckely St address at 2:40 and they arrived at Beckley at 3:00PM.

Detective B.L. Senkel also said in his after action report (Dallas Police Archives Box 3, Folder# 12, Item#1) that they arrived at 1026 N. Beckley at 3:00PM.

They checked the register and found that Oswald had been living there since October 14th.

Because of that 40 minute wait at the Irving address, the police actually arrived at the Beckley St. address BEFORE they searched the Irving address. They did not search the room on Beckley until Detective Turner, David Johnston, and Deputy DA Bill Alexander arrived with a search warrant at 4:30 or 5:00PM (Potts, Dallas City Archives - JFK Collection)

So, if the police had already been at Beckley for 30 minutes before they began the search at Irving to find a telephone number that they criss-crossed, how did they know about Beckley?

How did the Police First learn of 1026 N. Beckley?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2331-how-did-the-police-first-learn-of-1026-n-beckley/

https://myjfksite.weebly.com/

Steve Thomas

 

While I hate to agree with the wrong Steve (LOL), I think Roe is correct about this. The timeline pushed in these reports was a lie. (I suspect this was done to hide that the DPD knew about the bag before they "found" a bag, but it could have just been a mistake.) I went through all the statements of Marina, Ruth, Michael, Linnie Mae, Will Fritz, etc. and it's clear there was no 40-minute wait outside the house. I mean, c'mon, Oswald is a suspected cop killer and assassin. They are not just gonna sit around and do nothing while following "procedure". They went to the front door and Ruth invited them in. Mission accomplished.  

[Pat Speer]

50 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Why would the Soviets want JFK out and LBJ in his place?

Has any highest credentialed with true insider knowledge writer ever published a deeply researched and resourced answer to this question?

Or, was the subject matter just too mind blowing hot and dangerous to even write about?

And if the Soviets actually did JFK and our military and connected agencies "knew" they were responsible, what kind of a response would they have considered? 

A Curtis LeMay all out nuclear retaliation?

Perhaps an economic retaliation beyond anything we had ever carried out before?

What was our final decision in this regards?

I can't believe that if the Soviets did JFK through some type of Manchurian Candidate means using Oswald and our military knew this, that our response was what it was.

Edward Epstein's book Legend is a detailed look at Oswald's contact with the Soviets. It was published by Reader's Digest.  I think it was a best-seller. Epstein's main source was the recently-retired James J. Angleton. It is my recollection that Epstein/Angleton mused that Oswald did the killing for the Russians for God knows why--perhaps because they hate us for our freedom. In any event, the book made a small dent on the general public but was largely dismissed by the research community. 

There was another book around this same time by Hugh McDonald, the writer of the best-seller Appointment in Dallas. This one held that while Oswald did some of the shooting, he missed, and was part of a plot in which he was supposed to be killed by a second sniper--who was--get this--the Mexico City Mystery Man. In McDonald's follow-up he mused that LBJ was in on it and had been compromised by the KGB. 

[James DiEugenio]

Let us not overlook Pat Hall from the Peterson/Zachry book.

Gladys Johnson's daughter owned Puckett Photography, which was opposite the Texas Theater. She noticed that the police were dragging someone who looked familiar out the front doors. She recognized the face but did not know his name.  She had seen him tossing  the football with her young son in front of 1026 North Beckley.

So she called up her mom at the diner, but they had closed it down early.

She then called her at the boarding house. She said, "One of your boarders is being arrested for something."

The mother's reply was, "Well, that explains why the FBI is here searching his room." (Sara Peterson and K. W. Zachry, The Lone Star Speaks, p. 175)

I think we all know when Oswald was dragged out of the Texas Theater.

Edited July 21, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

13 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Edward Epstein's book Legend is a detailed look at Oswald's contact with the Soviets. It was published by Reader's Digest.  I think it was a best-seller. Epstein's main source was the recently-retired James J. Angleton. It is my recollection that Epstein/Angleton mused that Oswald did the killing for the Russians for God knows why--perhaps because they hate us for our freedom. In any event, the book made a small dent on the general public but was largely dismissed by the research community. 

There was another book around this same time by Hugh McDonald, the writer of the best-seller Appointment in Dallas. This one held that while Oswald did some of the shooting, he missed, and was part of a plot in which he was supposed to be killed by a second sniper--who was--get this--the Mexico City Mystery Man. In McDonald's follow-up he mused that LBJ was in on it and had been compromised by the KGB. 

Really?

[Sandy Larsen]

Dale Myers responded to my comment on his article. My comment is very simple and really just explains why his and my position on the Tippit killing are complete opposites. He flew off the handle in his response.

For anybody interested, here is our exchange. He basically states that everything I said is a lie. You will see  here that everything I said is a fact.

My Comment:

The bottom line is that you believe what's on the Dictabelt recording while I believe what the witnesses said. The witnesses almost unanimously point to a shooting time before ~1:08, with a couple of them saying specifically 1:06.

Add to this the fact that Tippit was pronounced dead at the hospital at 1:15, with this time undoubtedly being his time of arrival or shortly thereafter, when attempts to resuscitate him failed. This directly contradicts what's on the Dictabelt recording, which indicates that the ambulance headed to pick up Tippit at 1:18. He'd already been at the hospital for three minutes by then!

The problem is that you assume there was no cover up, and thus the Dictabelts can be trusted. There's a ton of evidence and even proof that a coverup was conducted by the U.S. government, so there is good reason to question the Dictabelts since they contradict eyewitness testimony and other evidence.

Myers Response:

Your timeline, Mr. Larsen, is nonsense because it is not supported by facts, not because of anything I may or may not believe. Nor is my problem that I assume that there was no “cover-up” in the JFK assassination case and “thus, the Dictabelts can be trusted”. Obviously, you must believe your clairvoyance about the root causes of the big-conspiracy extend to yours truly, yes?

Contrary to your assumptions – and none of this is a big secret, having been spelled out in the forward of my book “With Malice” – I obtained the best copy of the Dictabelts I could get from a primary source and did a linear regression analysis to see if there are any anomalies in the time sequence as announced by DPD dispatchers. I found that the time sequence was in fact accurate, to within one-minute, and that Channel 1 did in fact record continuously during high traffic sequences – which occurred in and around the time of the Tippit shooting, my primary focus.

The times announced by the dispatchers (“broadcast time”) could not of course be connected to “real time” (i.e., what we would call today, atomic time) with anymore precision than within that one-minute margin previously stated. How do I know it’s accurate to within that margin? Because there are several “anchors” where the announced time matches times that were documented elsewhere. For example, it is documented in many places that the DPD received the citizen call from T.F. Bowley at 1:18 p.m. This matches my own linear regression analysis within the margin I described.

Many other factors were looked at to determine the accuracy of the timeline I came up with – drive times between locations, photographs, films, testimony, interviews, etc. Bottom line: The timeline I produced, based on my own linear regression analysis of the DPD Channel 1 Dictabelts, is, I believe, within one-one minute of real-time.

You, on the other hand, claim that the police recordings are off by nine-minutes! You base your entire timeline on a presumed start time of 1:15 p.m. (which you falsely claim as the time Tippit was pronounced DOA at Methodist Hospital) and then work backwards based solely (your own words) on eyewitness testimony. I pointed out the fatal flaw in each and every one of the time points on your timeline. You have been unable or unwilling to provide support for your position other than to charge, again without support, that you know what I assume and what I trust.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Bowley, 1: 18 ?

[Karl Kinaski]

 @Pat Speer

 Compared to Myers, Mack in his later years was a much more destructive force to the CTer-case. His friend(of the early days) the late Jack White said of the late Mack, he was switching from CTer to LNter the moment he met Gus Russo. If Myers makes Bela Lugosi, what was Gary Mack when he became boss of the deep state front called 6th floor museum? -- The Voldemord of that Hogwarts Departement of the lone nut, eager to turn each und every piece of CTer evidence into the lone nut tale or dissimissing it as irrelevant or creating such bullshit artist pieces as INSIDE THE TARGET CAR. Compared to Mack, Myers is a small fish. You say, Mack remained open to CT ideas. I say he pretended ... BTW I had to add Gus Russo to my list of suspicious "CT to LN" convertites.

[Karl Kinaski]

@Sandy Larsen

There is a DPD "supplemtary offense report", to big a size to post it here, which states, quote: " At 1.15 pm. Dr Richard Liquori (of the Methodist Hospital) pronounced him(Tippit) dead. You can see the document here, (by scrolling halfway down)thx to Gil Jesus.

Obviously Myers is not aware of that report.

 

[Karl Hilliard]

There is nothing new in Myers newest article.

Myers was not a witness to anything. He did not see anything or experience anything firsthand concerning the assassination. Dale Myers truest words are at the end of the article...

Quote

My occasional visits have become fewer and farther between – each time I’m reminded of why it’s better to stay away. Better for me, better for truth, and better for history. [END]

How true Dale...Do that.